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Tiers? (Include an explaination)

greenblob

greenblob

Smash Lord
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,632
Location
SF Bay Area
Unless you can compete with the top, your personal experience has no place in deciding tiers--you can only judge based on what you see from their matches. So unless you can at least give some of the people on the ladder a run for their money, your personal matches have no say.
 
S

SheerMadness

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
4,781
Sounds like JGage needs a wakeup call. I bet he doesn't even know what high level smash 64 looks like. Watch this JGage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVK40pi8uws

Random vid from youtube. The Pikachu player would probably 4 stock you while the Fox player would 5 stock you without taking more than 20 damage.

We've been through this a million times JGage. Random noob whos never heard of the competitive smash scene finds this site and proclaims their greatness. Two weeks later they make their way online and get 5 stocked by the 1st decent player they play. The chances of you breaking the mold are astronomical. If you have any intention of playing online I seriously suggest you restrain yourself from lecturing anyone on here because its going to be pritty embarassing when they destroy you.
 
P

platinum kirby

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
128
Location
Mexico City
I thought JGage's post had something worth taking into consideration until I reached the part where he states Screw Attack and Charge shot are two of Samus' best moves. I just laughed. As Thino (sp?) said, Screw Attack can be DI out of pretty easily an kleaves Samus open to anything. And charge shot is perhaps useful just in case you use tiny bullets to stop your opponent's offensive trajectory, and bombs are used for spacing and some interesting mind games.

And no, She does NOT drop fast after dropping a bomb. In fact, unless timed and spotted very well, any character can take the risk (not really a "risk") to hit her even when she's fully protected by the bomb.

And, last but not least, She CANNOT combo. Her main combos are like Dair into Bair or Nair or F-air into Nair or UpB. And the enemy must have been damaged fairly enough before you can even think of starting a combo with her.

She DOES have great edge-guarding traps, fairly good anti-edgeguard tactics, nice running speed and overall priority. In this game, though, a HORRID throw and zero to few combo ability is more than enough to consider her low tier.
 
B

Box_of_Fox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
338
I stopped reading Jgage's post when I didn't see common terminology. A post declaring Samus's greatness would at least...sporadically... mention the word "dair". Lol.
 
J

jayrico

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Messages
103
platinum kirby pretty much hit it on the button but i do think a charged samus can add some unpredictability into a match. I think to be a good samus you need really good mind games to make up for the lack of combos.

Here's a nice video of samus by dreday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR7BlZN7xiQ
 
Zelda_Fan_

Zelda_Fan_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Messages
234
Location
Ohio
I have one question. I have never played at a tournament or seen many ssb vids. When I first came here I was into ssbm and learned how to competitively play that. I wanted to mix it up so I read about ssb and played that for a little. Back when I used to play ssb before I had ssbm I was pikachu because I liked pokemon, lol. But now I come here and see that he is top tier after I have switched my main to Link.

So basically, what makes pikachu so good? His grab and recovery are awesome, but those alone wouldn't make him top tier, imo. What's so special about him?
 
Winston

Winston

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Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
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Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
My two cents is that isai really shouldn't be part of any discussion about tiers, especially cause the distinction between top and high tier blurs with his fox, falcon, pikachu, and kirby.

Ness really isn't that good though =P Falcon is clearly better.
 
Zelda_Fan_

Zelda_Fan_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Messages
234
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Ohio
Dylan_Tnga said:
OMG ISAI WON WITH LINK? THAT TOTALLY PROVES YOUR POINT!

Oh wait, No it doesn't. Please understand tiers then come back later.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying that link can be good, you need to know how to use him, though.

And that pika sucked, but isai was still awesome with him.
 
Zelda_Fan_

Zelda_Fan_

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Nov 3, 2006
Messages
234
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Ohio
Box_of_Fox said:
Park does not suck.
Click to expand...
Compared to isai he does, but I guess with all the worshiping that people do of him around here, everyone sucks compared to him.

But really, it didn't look like he put up a fight, or that he was even trying, at all. The first kill he got was some good edgeguarding, but that's all I saw that I was impressed with.
 
Dylan_Tnga

Dylan_Tnga

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
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Montreal Canada
I'm just saying that link can be good, you need to know how to use him, though.

And that pika sucked, but isai was still awesome with him.
Click to expand...
No you said

Bottom tier my ***.
Click to expand...
But Im not fighting with you dont worry lol I know you were probably joking so im not gonna start **** over nothing.

And yeah, park does not suck. Isai can make anyone look bad. I don't suck I win about 90 percent of the random matches I play on kaillera, but superboom and dashfox and other elites make me look noob when they 4 stock me aswell.

You cant tell jack from one match.

But really, it didn't look like he put up a fight, or that he was even trying, at all. The first kill he got was some good edgeguarding, but that's all I saw that I was impressed with.
Click to expand...
Look, just play more smash. You'll understand one day, for the moment being you don't have an eye for the game, it takes practice. You don't understand smash yet.

If you -ever- want someone to play online though or give you some tips / help you see things more clearly just gimmie a shout :)
 
Zelda_Fan_

Zelda_Fan_

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Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Messages
234
Location
Ohio
Dylan_Tnga said:
No you said



But Im not fighting with you dont worry lol I know you were probably joking so im not gonna start **** over nothing.

And yeah, park does not suck. Isai can make anyone look bad. I don't suck I win about 90 percent of the random matches I play on kaillera, but superboom and dashfox and other elites make me look noob when they 4 stock me aswell.

You cant tell jack from one match.



Look, just play more smash. You'll understand one day, for the moment being you don't have an eye for the game, it takes practice. You don't understand smash yet.

If you -ever- want someone to play online though or give you some tips / help you see things more clearly just gimmie a shout :)
Click to expand...
I have been playing meele competitively for about two months (I know, that's not a lot to you or the majority of the people here) and I feel that I am fairly decent for someone who has never gone to a tournament.

I just picked up ssb64 yesterday, though, and I've seen very few vids of good play, so I really have no idea what good smash is for ssb64. But it really looked like Isai could land anything whenever he wanted and Park couldn't do anything about it.

I'd love to play online. I saw that one thread but it seemed complicated. Do I need to buy anything? I'll check the thread again.
 
_kSo_

_kSo_

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
3,537
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Los Angeles, CA
Zelda_Fan_ said:
But it really looked like Isai could land anything whenever he wanted and Park couldn't do anything about it.
Click to expand...
1.) Isai's link is actually quite good...no wait it's probably the best in the world
2.) Park would raep you in smash, 64 or melee
3.) Isai has incredible mind games, which is why it's so hard to touch him
4.) if you've never gone to a tournament, how are you playing melee competitively? who have you played that makes you competitive?
 
G

GOPrincessPeach

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
57
Location
Redmond, WA
A real tier list should be like this:

Top Tier:
Kirby
Pikachu
Fox

High Tier:
Captain Falcon
Yoshi

Middle Tier:
Ness
Jigglypuff
DK

Low Tier:
Samus
Mario

Bottom Tier:
Luigi
Link

But that's just my opinion. So any Luigi or Link fans, please don't kill me.

EDIT: I forgot about the explanation.

Kirby: He's the man! He's like the best!

Pikachu: He is very good, but to me, he is slightly beaten by Kirby.

Fox: Good speed, not really powerful attacks, but he is still good.

Captain Falcon: Very powerful, but he is kinda slow on attacks.

Yoshi: He is heavy, his Down+A does insane damage, but he lacks a triple jump.

Ness: Even though he is powerful, his triple jump is hard to master and is easily to intercept.

Jigglypuff: Sure she sucks. But her Rest is very powerful, and let's not forget about Pound which makes her recovery long!

DK: He is kinda slow, and is a big target. But at least he's extremely powerful.

Samus: Very annoying opponent. Her attacks are average, and she kinda has poor recovery.

Mario: Other than being a well-balanced character, he is not too good and not too bad.

Luigi: Even though he is the same as Mario, I think he is harder to control.

Link: He just plain sucks. He has very poor recovery which is why I can't stand him.
 
Zantetsu

Zantetsu

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Joined
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Springfield, MO
GOPrincessPeach said:
A real tier list should be like this:

Top Tier:
Kirby
Pikachu
Fox

High Tier:
Captain Falcon
Yoshi

Middle Tier:
Ness
Jigglypuff
DK

Low Tier:
Samus
Mario

Bottom Tier:
Luigi
Link
Click to expand...
Yoshi over ness,mario and jigs?
Samus over mario and luigi?
Kirby over pikachu?

Your tier list is so wrong =_=
 
G

GOPrincessPeach

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
57
Location
Redmond, WA
OK, then how about this:

Top Tier:
Pikachu
Kirby
Fox

High Tier:
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon

Middle Tier:
DK
Mario

Low Tier:
Samus
Yoshi
Ness

Bottom Tier:
Luigi
Link
 
D

DreDay

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
244
Location
Las Vegas
x_x Lost my list I posted months ago. Think it was something like this. Going japanese tier ranking.

S: Pikachu Kirby Fox
A: C.Falcon Mario Jiggs
B: DK/Yoshi/Ness
C: Samus/Luigi Link

/ = close call,maybe switched around
DK might be in front of Jiggs cuz of throw trap infinite.
 
Teebs

Teebs

Smash Champion
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Feb 7, 2006
Messages
2,362
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The Illinois Sticks
NNID
Teebs-kun
Heres what I think:

TOP TIER:
Pikachu
Fox
Cpt. Falcon

HIGH TIER:
Kirby
Ness
Jiggs
Yoshi

MIDDLE TIER:
Mario
DK

LOW TIER:
Luigi
Link
Samus
 
A

AlexBarry

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
221
Location
NC
Why does this **** matter? Sounds like people are preparing to be beaten.

"You only beat me because X is higher tier than Y!"
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
I am so amused by the first couple pages.
There's a few objections I'd like to make about the tiers as of now.
1) Ness is too far up
Little maneuverability on the ground, DJC is vital here because his key aerials have much more startup than most characters, except his Dair.
Recovering is even more ridiculous. He floats almost as slow as Luigi, and sweetspotting is almost impossible. Pika and Kirby can just float out and kill him during the startup, and EVERYone else can just wait while he comes back.
I don't think reliable shield breakers and DJC combos make up for it.
2)Falcon for top tier
Yeah, I said it. Not Pika or Kirby, Falcon!

Edit: oops, posted too early...reasons why in formation.
 
<π

<π

BRoomer
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LessThanPi
Pichu on top, good air game, awesome recovery, solid kill moves fast edge gaurds. fastest Lcancel in the game (no ties either).
 
_kSo_

_kSo_

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
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Location
Los Angeles, CA
yoshi is the best when/if played perfectly

however realistically, pika, kirby and falcon own top tier...the rest is up to you to decided. but without a doubt, pika, kirby and falcon on top. no questions asked
 
G

GOPrincessPeach

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
57
Location
Redmond, WA
Wenbobular said:
I am so amused by the first couple pages.
There's a few objections I'd like to make about the tiers as of now.
1) Ness is too far up
Little maneuverability on the ground, DJC is vital here because his key aerials have much more startup than most characters, except his Dair.
Recovering is even more ridiculous. He floats almost as slow as Luigi, and sweetspotting is almost impossible. Pika and Kirby can just float out and kill him during the startup, and EVERYone else can just wait while he comes back.
I don't think reliable shield breakers and DJC combos make up for it.
2)Falcon for top tier
Yeah, I said it. Not Pika or Kirby, Falcon!

Edit: oops, posted too early...reasons why in formation.
Click to expand...
I agree with Ness being too high, but I disagree with Falcon for top tier. Why? Even though he is powerful, he is a bit too slow for me, and his recovery is kinda bad.

EDIT:

No offense Falcon Lovers.
 
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