Tier List Speculation

[steelguttey]

so the pikmin would be in a set order (something like red yellow blue white) and when you hold down pluck you get a purple?

i can deal with that.

 

[jtm94]

I have thought about Pikmin order, I used to think if it had set order he would be broken, but I realize I was an idiot. He needs a color changing light on his antenna to show what the active pikmin is. People also haven't realized blue pikmin make Olimar's upthrow very comparable to Mewtwo and Lucas.

And there shouldn't be a right way to play a character, both Link and Toon Link have Link in their name. I also do not think that is the only similarity linking these two together, but Toon Link is clearly more mobile and that changes the entire ball game though.

 

[steelguttey]

ganondorf and mewtwo both have o's in their names.

mewtwo=ganondorf confirmed

 

[EmptySky00]

ganondorf and mewtwo both have o's in their names.

mewtwo=ganondorf confirmed

You and a rock both have the same capacity to ignore the rhetoric.

Don't take everything literally.

Obviously Link and TL play differently, but they share some tools. They just function differently and as such the focus on their gameplay changes.


I'm done with this thread for the night confirmed. I can't take it.

 

[steelguttey]

You and a rock both have the same capacity to ignore the rhetoric.

Don't take everything literally.

Obviously Link and TL play differently, but they share some tools. They just function differently and as such the focus on their gameplay changes.


I'm done with this thread for the night confirmed. I can't take it.

you know if you can get so angry about me making a joke that never ever said that he is wrong or what he said shouldnt be talked about then you need to get off this thread for good. i didnt take anything literally. i made a joke. jesus christ dude

 

[Bleck]

He does seem kind of angry, doesn't he?

 

[9bit]

Yo this is drunken ramblings. Don't even pay attention or whatever. But listen to this PMBR.

Next patch...

Make Meta Knight's up-throw a kill throw. Right now it's nearly useless. Make it sorta like Kirby's N64 f-throw or Charizard's current up-throw, and have it kill on Battlefield at like............ 150%.

I mean if there's any character in this game that needs buffs it's clearly MK

 

[Deleted member]

Metaknights down throw is INSAAAAANELY good. He does NOT need a ****ing kill throw

 

[9bit]

Are you serious? Just cuz he has the best d-throw in the game you're gonna deny him a kill throw!!?

 

[jtm94]

Mario is salty, when did MK get his Downthrow???

 

[didds]

people will forever compare similar characters as if they should be played the same.

the worst was when someone honestly saw Diddy w/o bananas as a worse falcon -_-

lik wut?

 

[Deleted member]

And there shouldn't be a right way to play a character

there will ALWAYS be an optimal way to play every character- specific to stage and matchup. we have to build our character designs under the assumption that our players will strive to do so since our community is a competitive one. you may not know what optimal means for your character, or you may be a scrub and refuse to play optimally for some reason. but sooner or later the players will figure it out.

 

[ELI-mination]

I guess I'm alone in thinking that Marth is amazing in this game lol. Like top 10 but at least top 15

 

[didds]

You're not alone
Marth is good
People who use him are not as good

edit:actually I'm bad, wtf do I know

 

[Zx2963]

I guess I'm alone in thinking that Marth is amazing in this game lol. Like top 10 but at least top 15

Why does no reputable players use him then? Aside from rare occurrences?

 

[Ogopogo]

ivy's not as good as m2k says he is, but he definitely has favorable matchups against a large amount of the cast by sheer range and combo ability alone.

I haven't heard m2k praising Ivy since 2.6b. She's much less polarizing now. She's kind of easy to react to (for example fair's in front hitbox comes out frame 15 iirc) but Ivy is still great at edgeguarding. Bad recoveries, good recoveries, obscene recoveries, it's all the same to her if you don't position yourself well

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Why does no reputable players use him then? Aside from rare occurrences?

Literally two people play Pit well. One of them is a contender for best Melee player in the whole damn world. Yet everyone has been crying for his blood since Apex. His being top tier is consensus now.

Number of representatives has jack-all to do with viability.

 

[Frost | Odds]

I think Marth is way better than he's given credit for - not least because of how very well he does against everyone else in or around top tier.

Also, I am so down for Olimar being able to determine pikmin type by how long he holds the button.

 

[Pseudomaniac]

Why does no reputable players use him then? Aside from rare occurrences?

Most good Marths seem to be sticking to Melee. He's also no longer "special" in PM, despite still being really good, which discourages new players from picking him over the flashy "new" characters.

 

[ELI-mination]

Why does no reputable players use him then? Aside from rare occurrences?

Umm let me explain something to you.
"reputable" players using character = x
Character being good = y

x =/= y

Example: Yoshi

Also, up until Roy's release Sethlon was using Marth. M2k uses Marth (see sktar) and Ppmd uses Marth. This is all in pm.

So yea the implication was incorrect on several levels.

 

[Player -0]

I'm still listening to that Metaknight da bess.... What're we talking about again?









Hungrybox Metaknight da besssss~

 

[mimgrim]

Olimar is slept on so badly. Dude has one of the best ground games ever with some of the best range ever while on the ground and a really good Dash Dance on top of fast smashes and grab.

Why is he bad again?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Olimar is slept on so badly. Dude has one of the best ground games ever with some of the best range ever while on the ground and a really good Dash Dance on top of fast smashes and grab.

Why is he bad again?

Olimar's dash dance is terrible. I believe that he's like Sheik where they have decent dash/run speeds, but for some reason their initial dash animation is shorter than most other characters. That said, you can foxtrot pretty easily in PM to get around his bad dash dance.

 

[trash?]

man I just said why olimar is butts like a page ago, I can't repeat myself without sounding a bit obnoxious

 

[mimgrim]

Olimar's dash dance is terrible. I believe that he's like Sheik where they have decent dash/run speeds, but for some reason their initial dash animation is shorter than most other characters. That said, you can foxtrot pretty easily in PM to get around his bad dash dance.

How is it terrible?

His DD is fast and it has a good size to it. Everything that makes a good DD. :L

man I just said why olimar is butts like a page ago, I can't repeat myself without sounding a bit obnoxious

I honestly think you are overstating how reliant he is on RNG. :/

 

[shairn]

Most good Marths seem to be sticking to Melee. He's also no longer "special" in PM, despite still being really good, which discourages new players from picking him over the flashy "new" characters.

Better characters do his gimmicks better and don't even have to rely on them. Moreover, they don't get screwed over by being poked on the ledge, unlike Marth.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Olimar's DD is only good if you compare it to his size. Comparing it to the distance of other DDs it still falls short. It only looks good because compared to him it's a long distance. Same reason why Zard's DD looks worse than it is.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Lol Olimar has a good dash dance.

 

[B.W.]

Drinkingfood is actually right. Olimar's DD isn't good compared to other characters. But it looks good because he's so small. It works for him though.

 

[AstraEDM]

I haven't heard m2k praising Ivy since 2.6b. She's much less polarizing now. She's kind of easy to react to (for example fair's in front hitbox comes out frame 15 iirc) but Ivy is still great at edgeguarding. Bad recoveries, good recoveries, obscene recoveries, it's all the same to her if you don't position yourself well

ooooh, if it was back then it would explain it, thanks

 

[Osennecho]

ooooh, if it was back then it would explain it, thanks

It actually wasn't. It was primarily after the Shuffle MLG grassroots tournament where Denti won teams and got 3rd? in singles. He went crazy over Ivy being broken still. Then after a month-ish it was she's just broken in teams. Now I'm not sure if he even says that anymore.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can see him whining in the youtube comments of one of their matches lol

 

[steelguttey]

olimar's dd is good because one of the best things about him is his pivot grab. **** is soooo good

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I wouldn't say Marth has lost his specialty by any means. He still combo's with finesse on spacies, which have by no means lost all their threat factor, plus he still destroys any characters that lack range(especially that "secret boss" known as Mario). And in a game where too many seem to be complaining in regards to edgeguarding, Marth shows no sign of offering a free recovery.

 

[Soft Serve]

I wouldn't say Marth has lost his specialty by any means. He still combo's with finesse on spacies, which have by no means lost all their threat factor, plus he still destroys any characters that lack range(especially that "secret boss" known as Mario). And in a game where too many seem to be complaining in regards to edgeguarding, Marth shows no sign of offering a free recovery.

Everyone combos and chaingrabs spacies easier than marth though. and while Marth does well against characters who his range in neutral is longer, he also doesn't enjoy projectiles at all. Especially mario's. I think what marth has going for him most in PM is having good MU's against Diddy and kirby as a few others(Olimar, Ivy imo, maybe tink), and not losing a lot of MU's. He probably has a load of 50-50 MU'sand I think that makes him great. Not top 15, but good.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

It's not that difficult to just swat through projectiles. And Marth isn't necessarily easy for Fox player to shine>upsmash, which is a plus(though not as useful as Roy and his properties when shined.)

Edit: Though I'll admit that any situation where a fox is getting stuff off of a shine is a rather terrifying situation for marth.

 

[trash?]

I honestly think you are overstating how reliant he is on RNG. :/

his MAIN PLAYSTYLE WHICH IS THE BASIS FOR ALL OF HIS SMASHES, AERIALS AND SPECIAL MOVES are only good when the game gives you a good setup to work with

he has to rely on it, because the difference between getting a good setup (which often needs at least one purple, if you want any kill power outside of throws) and a bad one is the different between a character I'll have trouble dealing with, and a character I can roll through and trade constantly without fear

RNG on any character in general, from DDD's waddles and gordos to GnW's horrid, horrid bacon, is stupendously bad design and deserves being axed across the board if anyone wants to take those characters seriously. there's nothing competitive about your success being determined by a dice roll, to hell with that

 

[steelguttey]

RNG on any character in general, from DDD's waddles and gordos to GnW's horrid, horrid bacon, is stupendously bad design and deserves being axed across the board

yes. although i dont agree that he is absolute **** without a good lineup i do agree that rng needs to be removed from any competitive game. no one has ever called rng good game design, its just lazy.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Olimars 4m4z1ng wo7 joo 7ak1n bout?

Translation of Broken Language: Olimar might be good.

 

[cannedbread]

but my stitchfaces and bombs