Tier List Speculation

[InfinityCollision]

And the goddamn judgment hammer doesn't make G&W good <_>

Correct.

It makes him AWESOME.

You put Sheik in top tier, but not Lucas, Sonic or Snake, two characters who are WAYY stronger than Sheik is in terms of general moveset.

Sheik is mid at best. Nerfed wayy too hard in PM, and plenty other characters have dumb CGs as well.

If you try to play straight Melee Sheik then yeah she's mid at best, but she's got some new tricks that haven't really seen much use in top level play for lack of representation by people that aren't Mew2King/other Melee imports. Small surprise he doesn't play her anymore.

 

[EmptySky00]

I factored in no tournament results at all?

You're right it does make him pretty awesome.

But awesome doesn't win games @_@

 

[AstraEDM]

Truth is, people make tier lists almost solely off of tournament results and character popularity than the actual tools that the character has. Should be the other way around imo, using tourney results to judge a few % for human limits.

it's been said before, but people started complaining about diddy because there's like 3 diddy mains that place well at xanadu, all the mewtwo complaints happened after sktar, it goes on
it kinda blows but people will always do it

 

[MLGF]

Falcon is not low tier in this game, he actually has some good counters against characters and is not invalidated by Fox like in Melee.

A lot of disjointed characters have far more trouble with Falcon then Fox honestly. Sure, I'd never solo main him, but lolareyouseriousyoureallythinkyoucansolomainanyonebutpitandmewtwoandsonic?

 

[InfinityCollision]

IYou're right it does make him pretty awesome.

But awesome doesn't win games @_@

truth

 

[EmptySky00]

I had a discussion about Mewtwo being sort of ridiculous months before sktar. That's just a correlation = causation argument. People might have thought that/complained about those characters beforehand, but then became more vocal afterwards because it was a sort of evidence.

 

[Phan7om]

Yep, all I have to do is win Big House with Puff, Ganon, (insert any bad character) and people will deem that character OP and needs nerfing lol... its so dumb.

 

[Deleted member]

im absolutely positive @Lunchables would put up an argument if you actually stated points on why hes not good. hes high mid tier imo, and thats above average

(not to put lunchables in a bad spot, he has the right to decline an internet argument about a videogame lol)

Ehh, I don't think I'll convince the guy. If he thinks the character isn't good then let him think that.

 

[Dagon97]

S Tier (Top Tier):

Falco
Mewtwo

Spoiler

(Not because of SKTAR)

Snake

A Tier (High Tier):

Fox
Sonic

Spoiler

(Not because of Wizzrobe)

Diddy Kong

Spoiler

(Not because of Xanadu)

Link
Zero Suit Samus

B Tier (Lower High Tier):

Lucario
Donkey Kong
Zelda
Mario

Spoiler

(Not because of Xanadu)

Meta Knight

C Tier (Upper Mid Tier):

Pit
Wolf
Captain Falcon
Lucas
Roy

D Tier (Mid Tier):

Ness
Wario
Marth
Shiek
Ike

E Tier (Lower Mid Tier):

Toon Link
Squirtle
ROB
Pikachu

F Tier (Low Tier):

Bowser
Charizard
Luigi
Peach
Ivysaur

Bottom Tier:

King Dedede
Yoshi
Game & Watch
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff

 

[Deleted member]

... Yeah now I remember why I unwatched this thread 2 days ago

 

[jtm94]

it's been said before, but people started complaining about diddy because there's like 3 diddy mains that place well at xanadu, all the mewtwo complaints happened after sktar, it goes on
it kinda blows but people will always do it

I do not like this type of counter arguing either.
The moment I saw M2 act out of teleport I knew that was too good, before even playing. The second I touched M2 in PM I used his uair and utilt and was like... wow... this is better than most other moves in the game. I'm not saying that for myself, just that characters get complained about and it goes unheeded and then when they win the people who had been stating arguments are now bandwagoners for that character being OP.

I've known Diddy was pretty good, Xanadu really doesn't affect much. In all honesty we shouldn't look solely at tournaments for tier placements, if you objectively play a character you can generally feel the "goodness" of a character.

@Lunchables
Don't worry Toon Link isn't that bad, but from Empty's perspective I've listened to his arguments about Toon Link being a watered down Link of sorts. TL has good stuff though, I like him as a character and he's fun to play, but I can't AGT consistently enough when recovering.

 

[Deleted member]

"Watered down link"

He's a watered down link if you try and play him like link. If you try and play him like you're supposed to then you'll find out he's good

 

[DrinkingFood]

... Yeah now I remember why I unwatched this thread 2 days ago

At least he knew to put ROB in mid tier
It's the one thing nobody can get wrong

 

[AstraEDM]

did you just put ivysaur in low tier

 

[Deleted member]

"Watered down link"

He's a watered down link if you try and play him like link. If you try and play him like you're supposed to then you'll find out he's good

I kinda wish people wouldn't compare them tbh, their neutral games and punishment games are pretty different, recoveries, combo weight, specific techniques, etc etc, they really don't have much in common.

 

[Dagon97]

did you just put ivysaur in low tier

where would've YOU put him?

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

These Marth placements....now I remember why I'll never whatch this thread.

 

[EmptySky00]

Ehh, I don't think I'll convince the guy. If he thinks the character isn't good then let him think that.

I also stated that my opinion isn't law and it's just opinion. I'm actually not closed minded, regardless of what you may think. The argument is just pointless. TL can be played well, TL can win games, I just don't think he stands out as being above most of the cast. That's it. It really wasn't that serious. I was joking about the puff thing because everyone got so damn offended lol.


Edit: Guy up there are you seriously bashing where I put Marth again?
He's not top 10. End of story.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Oh, but my friend, this meta is entering a new and most radiant dawn....

THIS STORY HAS JUST BEGUN!!!!

 

[Bazkip]

After extensive research I've discovered the perfect tier list

Top Tier:
- [x] character who won large tournament [y] / beat well known player [z]
- Fox News

Mid Tier:
- ROB

Bottom 5:
- Toon Link
- Toon Link
- Toon Link
- Jigglypuff Toon Link
- Toon Link

 

[shairn]

Falco and Snake top tier
Meta Knight B tier
Lucas C tier
Dedede and GnW bottom tier

Man, you can't just order them randomly. Your placings have to make sense.

 

[AstraEDM]

where would've YOU put him?

High. High mid at the very least.
ivy's not as good as m2k says he is, but he definitely has favorable matchups against a large amount of the cast by sheer range and combo ability alone.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

After extensive research I've discovered the perfect tier list

Top Tier:
- [x] character who won large tournament [y] / beat well known player [z]
- Fox News

Mid Tier:
- ROB

Bottom 5:
- Toon Link
- Toon Link
- Toon Link
- Jigglypuff Toon Link
- Toon Link

I shall one up your tier list with my own

Top Tier:
-Characters that I like
-Fast food restaurants and diners that are open after 12am
-Games I like

ROB Tier:
-ROB

Bottom Tier:
-Characters I don't like
-Games I don't like
-Slow drivers

 

[steelguttey]

bad tier list

you forgot olimar (even though im positive youre gonna make him **** tier

 

[shairn]

He's so low on the tier list he needed to let people post a few times before adding him under.

 

[steelguttey]

He's so low on the tier list he needed to let people post a few times before adding him under.

yes olimar is so bad buff my character

 

[EmptySky00]

Oh, but my friend, this meta is entering a new and most radiant dawn....

THIS STORY HAS JUST BEGUN!!!!

Doesn't matter. Ashera will just turn them all to stone regardless.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

You win this round.

 

[Deleted member]

marth is hella mediocre right now.

would not main imo

 

[Osennecho]

you forgot olimar (even though im positive youre gonna make him **** tier

Like that time you forgot Puff.

 

[BluntedMask]

Olimar is so good, if you have 2 purples.

 

[steelguttey]

Olimar is so good at killing if you have 1 purples.

ftfy.

2 purples is great but that doesnt mean he is abad character without them lol
yes i am forcing you guys to talk about olimar

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

ftfy.

2 purples is great but that doesnt mean he is abad character without them lol
yes i am forcing you guys to talk about olimar

I personally get more hype for Blues than anything else.
I may be a bit crazy, though.

 

[shairn]

How do blues improve grab? Grab range/speed?

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

How do blues improve grab? Grab range/speed?

Kill throws a plenty.
I heard something about more range too, somewhere.

 

[Joe73191]

you forgot olimar, samus, kirby and ice climbers. Your tier list isn't bad though.

 

[steelguttey]

How do blues improve grab? Grab range/speed?

increase range and knockback

 

[trash?]

the statement "olimar is good with these pikmin" segues perfectly into my one argument that makes olimar mid-to-low at best: he needs good pikmin setups, and to get good pikmin setups he needs RNG to play in his favor, since he can't camp for good setups like in brawl

in general, if being a good character relies on factors you're not able to control in-game, then there's problems

 

[steelguttey]

he shouldnt have rng, and no he shouldnt have a set pikmin order too. something that doesnt suggest playing like hes in brawl and camping, but something that rewards you for doing something with a good pikmin.

 

[trash?]

base it on how long you hold the b button. immediate taps give the weakest kind, holding it for two or so seconds gives you a purple pikmin

he just needs a way to consistently get the ball rolling and everything else falls into place