Tier List Speculation

[steelguttey]

maybe an aerial slap will make him not huge and easy to combo

 

[Manaconda]

I don't think anyone was asking for Peach to get an aerial turnip pull... You're basically getting mad at nothing.

I wasn't mad tho

 

[Akhenderson]

I wasn't mad tho

Then I apologize for my accusation.
Also, aerial down b... Maybe you can replace his down B with the coconut gun lol. It fires in spurts and if he shoots ya, it's gonna hurt!
Jokes aside, Iunno what to give him. DK mains please help!

 

[Manaconda]

Sm4sh gave him an aerial down special. Not sure if it changes anything about DK though.

I've never played it, but doesn't he do his up taunt in Brawl Minus in mid-air if you try to aerial down special? Pretty good buff right there.

 

[Idostuff]

im still in favor of giving DK a down b in the air. But also removing side b and replacing it will him pulling out the round barrel item which he can cargo hold/ throw and stuff. Now THAT would be a buff.

Anyway. As for Shiek, i still think shes good. Basically just better PAL version. I do think however it would be nice to match her F-throw stats to B-throw so you cant just mindlessly DI for D-throw in almost all cases.

 

[Ripple]

it needs to be something that actually makes the opponent approach him or something that makes him a threat at longer range. I know the PMDT have gotten rid or nearly all windboxes in the game but if DK could slap his hands together making a huge sound wave the pushes characters away at all points on the stage would be neato

 

[Foo]

Keep DK's down-b doing nothing, but let him use b-reverse tech with it. huehuehuehue

Mid-air rar bairs to combo finish, midair momentum reverse fair and b-reverse bair to punish on baits, dash attack offstage b-reverse nair for some edgeguards etc. etc. etc.

 

[JOE!]

it needs to be something that actually makes the opponent approach him or something that makes him a threat at longer range. I know the PMDT have gotten rid or nearly all windboxes in the game but if DK could slap his hands together making a huge sound wave the pushes characters away at all points on the stage would be neato

1) Get rid of Side B
2) Make aerial Down B the current Side B, able to stall mid air and you can fall with it to "bury" people. Maybe even make it the hand slaps but with the same stats as the Headbutt.
3) New Side B where he summons+picks up a barrel item. Self explanatory.*
4) Give his Up/Side Smashes "clap" hitboxes that carry wind of sour-spot shockwave hits in reference to Jungle beat.


*Edit: perhaps nerf the barrel item itself in-game so it isn't overbearing. DK can only have 1 barrel on screen at a time.

 

[CELTiiC]

1) Get rid of Side B
2) Make aerial Down B the current Side B, able to stall mid air and you can fall with it to "bury" people. Maybe even make it the hand slaps but with the same stats as the Headbutt.
3) New Side B where he summons+picks up a barrel item. Self explanatory.
4) Give his Up/Side Smashes "clap" hitboxes that carry wind of sour-spot shockwave hits in reference to Jungle beat.

That sounds awesome, but with his current arsenal and grab / punish game I would find those changes to be a bit unfair. Cool idea though.

 

[JOE!]

I've talked with POOB about him (among others at SG) and unfortunately that is really DK has going for him anyway. essentially his game boils down to "get a grab and pray it 0-deaths", which has its own issues.

If he gets buffs like that, I'm sure there would be tweaks elsewhere to compensate.

 

[CyberZixx]

I find DK kinda boring for that reason. he is grab punishes the character. who just get lamed out in neutral and can't do anything about it.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I find Marth kinda boring for that reason. he is grab punishes the character. who just get lamed out in neutral and can't do anything about it...?

 

[Manaconda]

It's not like PM can't have a grappler.

 

[CyberZixx]

That is a good point. DK is very much the Zangief of this game. Never been my kind of character, but it's cool we got that. Drinkingfood, I see what you are trying to do, but like, Marth gets very little true followups off his grabs. Not the best example. Playing DK is more complex than that I admit.

 

[Fortress]

That is a good point. DK is very much the Zangief of this game.

Give DK green hand in the next update, please.

 

[4tlas]

I find Marth kinda boring for that reason. he is grab punishes the character. who just get lamed out in neutral and can't do anything about it...?

Marth plays more similarly to Sheik than DK. You use the threat of a grab and good conversions to get in your other moves and prevent an opponent from getting in on your shield, as opposed to actually going for those grabs all the time.

 

[jtm94]

Sheik is punish based, Marth is neutral based.

Sheik can get more off an interaction, Marth can interact more.

DK, Sheik, and Marth all have the same run speed ironically. DK may have to play lame, but a few characters need to and even more should play lame in order to be optimal. Not every character needs moves that are useful or do something. I will be mad if DK gets an aerial DownB just for the sake of filling his move slots. People can complain all day about DK not being good, but his optimal playstyle can be effective and he can pull off 0 deaths with an incredible punish game. He hits pretty hard.

 

[Nausicaa]

Bowser could jump finally and now he can run finally
DK aerial Down-B baannanan plx but air push is better idea
Ice mode sux but both at once is cool
Squirtle ftilt is better against marth than most stuff
Lucas is probs the big sleeper since he's in shadows now or somethin
Ooze still lives

I don't play this game enough, but it seems I only ever do when peeps from WA, Alb, Ont, and Vancouver come visit.
Maybe I'll play this game when 3.6 is like... official and stuff.
Game is fun.

My tier list will be best (again) just you wait!

To add to face @ jtm94 be talking about.

-Sheik is punish based, Marth is neutral based.

-Sheik can get more off an interaction, Marth can interact more.

This goes for both ways with these characters too.
Sheik can get MESSED RIGHT THE **** UP off an interaction gone wrong.
Marth getting a few interactions wrong will MESS HIS **** UP really hard.

Play to those AGAINST them, and play to those AS them, and you'll be playing to their strengths/weaknesses at the same time for both sides of the match-up.

 

[DrinkingFood]

DK's aerial down-b should be him pulling out a giant banana, which he then uses as a sword
basically, make him marth

 

[Nausicaa]

And somehow his double-fisting F-Air while holding a gaintbanana is faster and hits harder than him without it.
But if he gets it, it splits into 3 smaller bananas that trip both him and the opponent.

Counter-play and meta-game will evolve so hardcore.

 

[SpiderMad]

What would Peach even use for an aerial down-B? Most aerial down-B's are relevant to their ground down-B's, but plucking turnips out of the air would be ****ing stupid.

I'd imagine something similar to Olimar's if you wanted to be uncreative and aid an already great recovery

 

[Nausicaa]

I'd imagine something similar to Olimar's if you wanted to be uncreative and aid an already great recovery

Like... you mean... his neutral B?
So she got a little hop?
But like his Down-B in Brawl?
So it was invincible?
And returned a Turnip to her hand from anywhere?
But with a hitbox as it came to her like Zelda's Dins?
Yes

I mean

OMGYESH

 

[JOE!]

DK's aerial down-b should be him pulling out a giant banana, which he then uses as a sword
basically, make him marth

 

[Boiko]

@ Nausicaa Lucas is amazing. Top 10 IMO. Meta Knight is up there too this patch. Idk if anyone has played him much yet, but that character is really good.

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah MK feels solid this patch, I want to put a lot of time into him and see what I can do. Keep yer eyes peeled during IaBs for my knight in shining armor.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Yeah MK feels solid this patch, I want to put a lot of time into him and see what I can do. Keep yer eyes peeled during IaBs for my knight in shining armor.

You've let me down like six times already in terms of experimenting with swordies and then ultimately not finding them to your tastes and going back to a flatulent sack of adipose. Stop breaking my heart, Adam.

Just remember once you get good with MK you'll be the only person in Texas with a winning MU v/s FLAMEON

Edit: Oh yeah people in general under-utilize going far offstage to the edge of your recovery range order to land your edge-guarding moves. Awestin is probably the only guy who does this to my satisfaction and he does it with Ness' narrow-hitbox bairs and dairs. Ness doesn't even have the sheer sweeping arcs that Ike, MK and Mewtwo can utilize (Mewtwo's an honorary swordie btw) and considering Ness' get back to the stage option is PK ****ing Blunder, it honestly boggles my mind that these characters that are made of solid recovery options stay on-stage when they could be securing a kill if they dared to fly.

 

[steelguttey]

play the real swordie

olimar

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I actually would play Olimar if he had more variation between Pikmin. Well, more like specific utility for Pikmin, like idk, purples making you Ragnell with everything having good kill potential but your combos are junk, reds handing you the sword of seals and Roy's combo-potential knockback, yellow's having psychotic grab range, being able to shuffle Pikmin with pummels and alter your throws so that you actually have 20 differents throws depending on your Pikmin, and white doing whatever whites do. [Blue can be 'normal'].

Of course since this would be stupid from a balance perspective and Olimar doesn't actually vary in these specific ways I won't play Olimar.

 

[steelguttey]

i mean pikmin variety is already enough and kinda what you described

purples are exactly like that, reds are yellows, yellows are blues, and your ideas are ridiculous jesus

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Believe me if I ever got my hands on Olimar I'd try to make him the supergrappler and completely butcher his design.

ehehehehehehe

 

[steelguttey]

now i want a really ****ing ripped olimar costume and for his nair just to be lariat

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

That actually sounds really fun. Now I want to make a does this look like the face of mercy meme of olimar. Going to Comair in 3.6.

I have to ask though, what do people think about diddy in this current patch? After the 3.5 nerfs, the diddy boards slowly died except for like 5 players. Then they never came back.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

And Junebug still owned with the character soooooo

I wanna just talk about how after being dead for the longest time WindyCitySmash puts out amazing 3.5 footage, with Smash'N'Splash literally having the sexiest player line-up for a PM tourney I've ever seen and then PMDT puts out 3.6 three days later.

Y'all are trying to personally **** with me, right?

 

[Fortress]

So, tiers?

 

[MLGF]

Meat Knight feels soooooo good without feeling like old MK with his stupid dair that I hope never gets back in.

Already felt like he was a sleeper, now he's just flat out amazing.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I've always though pummels should shuffle through olimar's pikmin, that would be cool as **** and amazing for setting up your proper follow-up, but unfortunately mashing mechanics are broken in PM so it wouldn't be a reliable thing, + what would happen to the pikmin that's holding onto the opponent, do they just not get shuffled?

 

[MLGF]

Why would it be hard to implement, it sounds reasonable and is a pretty awesome way to make olis grab better, even if it may look kinda janky.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

He already has an up throw down throw pair that when used properly is on par with melee sheik down throw. (Also depends on flower and pikmin but keeping it simple) I am Co maining him and asking please don't buff his throw even more. Address the brawl glitch where he is stuck in throwing animation when opponent breaks out, or speed up the bottom 5 in cast recovery. This 3.6 olimar feels relevant, and became a lot more interesting of a character, though that recovery lol. Begging to be offstage falco at times.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Why would it be hard to implement, it sounds reasonable and is a pretty awesome way to make olis grab better, even if it may look kinda janky.

potential coding limitations (which have stopped cool ideas before), but also believability considering PMDT usually tries to be professional with their design choices

 

[Jaedrik]

Replace DK side-B?

HIS COCONUT GUN
COULD FIRE IN SPURTS