StripedNinja
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2014
- Messages
- 177
- NNID
- StripedNinja
-.- Wow... Sorry, Ive been talking on both and I got my notifications confused...
-
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Tier List Speculation
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
Strawhat Jiggs
Smash Apprentice
Anyway thoughts on Ganon?
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
So underrated. So, so, so underrated.
Hungry Headcrab
Smash Ace
Nair is busted.
Strawhat Jiggs
Smash Apprentice
Same. Honestly I love the changes that were made in 3.5. and he feel a lot more viable than ever before.
He sticks his arm out, Bowser's upB is invincible until the hitbox comes out. In practice I've seen it trade a lot in these situations.
Just looked at the frame data and hitboxes for melee Marth to be sure. His grab is not really disjointed in the front, he will collide into your upB with his arm, trade.
Actually with the startup invincibility being 4 frames and Marth's grab only being active for two, you have a pretty decent shot at just denying his grab and hitting him with upB.
This breaking up posts thing sucks.
Close to the stage like that he probably needs at least a slight read to seal the deal. Bowser hardly has any specific mixup options, but DJ, airdodge, counterattack with Fair, armor with nair and possibly high upB to a platform give him something.
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Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
@
Ace55
Fair point about the grab's lack of disjoint, but my statement re: not missing Bowser's tech vulnerability timing stands. In that specific example, he could have easily caught up much faster by dashing and not given the Bowser any opportunity to act whatsoever.
As for recovering, like I said, it's complicated - nobody actually knows if it's a true flowchart situation or not. Bowser has some analog mixups, but not nearly as many as you'd think in most situations. Because of how low Marth's dtilt reaches (and its disjoint), Bowser is effectively forced to
1. go high and get either tippered or dunked- he's too huge and slow of a target in the air for Marth to really miss
2. go low and try for a difficult sweetspot. This is difficult or impossible for Marth to stop in some situations (ie. he's on the ledge and bowser's already at the perfect height to DJ and sweetspot), but it's questionable as to whether those situations need ever occur in the first place. If Bowser goes low, Marth has the options of
1. Safely sitting on ledge and dtilting, hoping that the Bowser will mess up sweetspotting (guaranteed kill in some situations - ie. Bowser forgot that medium-height is not an option; up to Bowser to not mess up in others)
2. dropzone sourspot fair to reset the situation if Bowser DI's away, lead to a Ken combo if he DI's in
3. empty drop into DJ fair on a read, or if Bowser has already committed to using his upB
4. Grabbing edge, gaining invincibility, killing Bowser with dair (I think some variation on this and 5 is guaranteed in probably most situations). This is tough to mess up if Bowser has to recover mostly horizontally.
5. Killing Bowser with onstage SH dair. Bowser can't really sweetspot around this horizontally if he's recovering vertically
etcetera.
EDIT: I should point out in fairness that I think Bowser can also edgeguard Marth pretty much 100% of the time; it's just that those situations should be much rarer due to the unbelievably stacked neutral.
RAR Tipman is also busted. I can't wait for someone like @Eikelmann to whip that one out vs M2K or something.
Ace55
Fair point about the grab's lack of disjoint, but my statement re: not missing Bowser's tech vulnerability timing stands. In that specific example, he could have easily caught up much faster by dashing and not given the Bowser any opportunity to act whatsoever.As for recovering, like I said, it's complicated - nobody actually knows if it's a true flowchart situation or not. Bowser has some analog mixups, but not nearly as many as you'd think in most situations. Because of how low Marth's dtilt reaches (and its disjoint), Bowser is effectively forced to
1. go high and get either tippered or dunked- he's too huge and slow of a target in the air for Marth to really miss
2. go low and try for a difficult sweetspot. This is difficult or impossible for Marth to stop in some situations (ie. he's on the ledge and bowser's already at the perfect height to DJ and sweetspot), but it's questionable as to whether those situations need ever occur in the first place. If Bowser goes low, Marth has the options of
1. Safely sitting on ledge and dtilting, hoping that the Bowser will mess up sweetspotting (guaranteed kill in some situations - ie. Bowser forgot that medium-height is not an option; up to Bowser to not mess up in others)
2. dropzone sourspot fair to reset the situation if Bowser DI's away, lead to a Ken combo if he DI's in
3. empty drop into DJ fair on a read, or if Bowser has already committed to using his upB
4. Grabbing edge, gaining invincibility, killing Bowser with dair (I think some variation on this and 5 is guaranteed in probably most situations). This is tough to mess up if Bowser has to recover mostly horizontally.
5. Killing Bowser with onstage SH dair. Bowser can't really sweetspot around this horizontally if he's recovering vertically
etcetera.
EDIT: I should point out in fairness that I think Bowser can also edgeguard Marth pretty much 100% of the time; it's just that those situations should be much rarer due to the unbelievably stacked neutral.
Yeah, gives me a major jealousy boner.
I know it's a huge deal in floaty matchups, but how much do you think it helps in previously highly-difficult MUs like Fox?
RAR Tipman is also busted. I can't wait for someone like @Eikelmann to whip that one out vs M2K or something.
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TTTTTsd
Gordeau Main Paint Drinker
I think Nair is busted outside of floaties just because of its option as OoS and the fact that it has that range combined with a better startup in tandem with less jumpsquat frames. It adds up to make a move that is that long, that good, and that reliable that ALSO autocancels even on a fastfall.
From what I can tell it's just in general really amazing and silly : D
From what I can tell it's just in general really amazing and silly : D
Hungry Headcrab
Smash Ace
Not as busted, but still busted. Links both hits reliably if you maneuver right, leads into silly combos and/or tech chases, decent in neutral, fairly safe on shield even on Fox. You can't use it as an OoS option reliably because Fox though.
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Snake's a pretty hype character and I want to feel the hype when he kills me : not feel like I'm being cheated off of a stock.
http://gfycat.com/DistinctDistantFoxhound
Plz remove the ability to cancel the waking up animation it's stupid.
Note : not johning, I've actually won that match/set.
http://gfycat.com/DistinctDistantFoxhound
Plz remove the ability to cancel the waking up animation it's stupid.
Note : not johning, I've actually won that match/set.
steelguttey
mei is bei
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2014
- Messages
- 1,674
LOL
i love how me and robo have become the standard for olimar posters when we post about olimar the same amount as other people post about their characters
the only difference is that were the 2 people that played olimar in 3.0
Mr_Shadow
Smash Rookie
umm.. no
Mr_Shadow
Smash Rookie
AuraMaudeGone
Smash Ace
Hinichii.ez.™
insincere personality
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
- Messages
- 4,290
- NNID
- hinichii
- 3DS FC
- 2423-5382-7542
shut yo ham sandwich arm ass up
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Mr_Shadow
Smash Rookie
steelguttey
mei is bei
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2014
- Messages
- 1,674
there is no real tier list
if you want to win, pick olimar. if you want to be a low tier hero, pick fox.
if you want to win, pick olimar. if you want to be a low tier hero, pick fox.
~Dad~
part time gay dad
People are going to ~~love~~ you here!
jtm94
Smash Lord
Mewtwo is still soooooo good.
NAIRRRRRR
Hover cancelllsssss
Shadow ball
And his dtilt is competing with Ness'
NAIRRRRRR
Hover cancelllsssss
Shadow ball
And his dtilt is competing with Ness'
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AuraMaudeGone
Smash Ace
Nothing wrong with being B+ Tier.
Mr_Shadow
Smash Rookie
I wish they had just left Mewtwo alone & gave everyone else a buff but oh well.
~Dad~
part time gay dad
nnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohmygod that would be bad
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Mr_Shadow
Smash Rookie
Why?
~Dad~
part time gay dad
You should read back through some of this thread.
Mr_Shadow
Smash Rookie
Warning Received
Overall i'd say he's pretty good but i'd have play with him more before i can make a serious assessment. If they're gonna toss out his warlock punch i wish they'd substitute it for a sword attack of some sort (although i like the fact that he can levitate)
Foo
Smash Lord
Troll confirmed.
Mean Green
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2014
- Messages
- 1,637
Dude yes! Diddy should have 3 or 4 bananas, IC's should wobble, Link should throws 2 boomerangs at once, yoshi's upthrow yields 3 free up-smashes instead of 1, etc.
Mr_Shadow
Smash Rookie
Double Posting Warning Received
what do you mean?
If it makes the game more interesting then why not?
Why would a tail be a prerequisite for a buff? You make no sense.
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~Dad~
part time gay dad
Please stop posting multiple times in a row. You can reply to multiple posts at a time, like this. <---
Choice Scarf
Smash Journeyman
Editing posts is a beautiful thing.
Thinking twice before posting is even better.
Thinking twice before posting is even better.
Mr_Shadow
Smash Rookie
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AuraMaudeGone
Smash Ace
Down Taunt pls.
Rᴏb
still here, just to suffer
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2012
- Messages
- 1,595
Mr_Shadow
Smash Rookie
So you can steal credit for it? No thanks.@Mr_Shadow , I think your idea for a sword wielding Ganondorf is brilliant and extremely original! So much so, that I would like you to share more of your insight on balance in PM by sharing your own tier list! Would you, please?
Taunts are for tryhards like yourself.
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Mean Green
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2014
- Messages
- 1,637
So you really were just a troll, phew
Foo
Smash Lord
Trolls HATE him! With just one easy trick, he managed to keep an entire thread from being derailed!
TheGravyTrain
Smash Ace
And here I was starting to think this wasn't part of the internet at large, full of wild trolls and troll bait alike. Huh, has smashboards gotten their anit-trollware up to date and active?
*edit* and 102 too!
*edit* and 102 too!
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