Tier List Speculation

[DMG]

Im guessing it's something to do with the Lightning having a hitlag multiplier that they had to then calculate the moves power in order to bring it back down to be the same as mario.

Probably got sick of re calculating it with each adjustment.

Ok but bring back Lightning Animation while calling it Light

Plz Mods R Gods Devs R Kevs Testers R Besters someone halp

 

[Slaudial]

whoops double post something weird was going on

 

[Slaudial]

@ Soft Serve weegee is not bottom ten lol like in all seriousness weegee is like A tier.

weegee (like samus) is one of the characters that both has the advantage of 12 years of melee metagame development as well as being buffed very nicely from melee (as well as relatively buffed from 3.0)

you want stupid? frame three nair
you want semi-game-breaking? commitment-free movement
you want really stupid wtf pmbr why u do dis? storable misfire which is practically guaranteed off of dthrow to kill when grabbed at 40%. that's like three dsmashes to a grab to death.

some of the issues weegee has, recovery and being unsafe in sheild have been alleviated. general recovery nerfs mean that weegee is no longer as alone in his recovery class, and sheild DI means that weegee can actually punish people who attack his shield rather than flying away.

tldr fear the weeg

also wario is A tier good I approve

You want stupid?

ANYTHING RNG based

Luigi is a piece of **** and terribly designed just because of that

 

[Narpas_sword]

Ok but bring back Lightning Animation while calling it Light

Plz Mods R Gods Devs R Kevs Testers R Besters someone halp

pretty sure the multiplier is tied to the flag that gives the lightning effect.

 

[kaizo13]

nvm wrong thread

 

[steelguttey]

You want stupid?

ANYTHING RNG based

Luigi is a piece of **** and terribly designed just because of that

somebody just got misfire'd

 

[Mookiefish]

somebody just got misfire'd

Lol my first experience vs. a Luigi in tournament resulted in 2-1 him because of a random misfire on last stock. I'm less than a fan.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

It's called playing the odds and maximizing your chances, not RNG ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Foo]

It's called playing the odds and maximizing your chances, not RNG ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Mookiefish]

It's called playing the odds and maximizing your chances, not RNG ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Explain to me exactly how that isn't RNG because I seem to be confused....

 

[Slaudial]

Lol naw, it's more that I despise RNG in fighting games. It doesn't matter what it is or how big of a deal the random thing is, I hate it all, although I don't hate all randomness equally obviously. GG Zappa and Zappa, BB Arakune and Platinum, Marvel hyper hitboxes, Smash Game and Watch, Peach turnips, Olimar, Luigi, Dedede, etc. I hate it all.

Guess tripping was such a big deal in Brawl and the worst thing about the game obviously so in PM of course it gets removed because it's ****ing stupid even though it didn't effect the game that much. Makes sense. The concept is stupid. Guess random Turnips, misfires, Pikmin plucks, judgement, etc. are all okay! I'm sure no Peach player ever has won a game ever because they got a stitchface or Bob-omb pluck!

Imagine it's a tournament. $500 for first place. You're playing against a Game & Watch. You have 40 damage, the game and watch has 200. They grab you and throw you and combo into side B. (I don't know if he can actually do that just pretend he can) Okay! Roll the virtual dice! Oh man! The game & Watch got the lucky roll! Instant kill 9! They win! RNG hell yeah! Damn. It's not like you got outplayed or anything. You just failed the slots, that's all.

 

[PootisKonga]

Tripping temporarily took control away from the player for literally no reason.

Randomness is something you have to account for in a game, and being able to play around your opponent's possible luck is a great skill.

If you got comboed into GnW's Side B, you were already getting outplayed anyway. Assume the worst outcome when fighting someone with an RNG move and plan accordingly

 

[shairn]

The G&W can abuse the RNG to increase the chances of getting a 9 to 1/3
But yeah it's pretty frustrating.

 

[Soft Serve]

RNG sucks

Like, peach pulls a turnip. Okay, I have to respect a little bit more space, but if I eat it I take like 8%.

Oh wait, it's a stitch. Now I can't do anything at all or risk eating a ranged 36% move that will probably kill me, and she'll regrab it. I guess I have to just respect her more and shield. Oh wait, she can still use her Aerials that are +4 on shield, and then throw the stitch face at me and either catch a roll or break my sheild straight up, and still be able to re grab it.

At least bombs are nerfed in pm, they explode eventually. Laser swords are still stupid.
I'm okay with dot eyes and mr saturns, because they are tame and don't alter the game state too much.

DDD Gordos do similar things as stitch faces and I hate them too.

I think RNG that massively changes the situations are silly, and im suprised they still are in. Misfires are fine with the current system I feel, but they are so strong for a move that can be stored as part of his recovery.

 

[Apollo Ali]

RNG on these melee characters isn't leaving guys, don't be ridiculous. The characters youre complaining about aren't even unbalanced and would be massively nerfed by removing those elements.

It's pretty gross to complain about LUIGI and PEACH, of all characters, ugh.

 

[mimgrim]

Yay bad tier lists!

No ordering in lines and bigger gap between the lines means a bigger difference between the lines, you know the usual.

 

[Soft Serve]

3.5 was intended to be a "remove the jank" patch, so I dont see whats wrong with disliking RNG that can completely change the state of the game, by chance.

I'm not complaining about Peach or Luigi, I think they are both pretty below average characters this patch. That doesn't make RNG like what they have healthy.

 

[NWRL]

All of these lists with Ike in high tier... I'm so happy ;_;

 

[mimgrim]

As long as Frame-1 JC Shine exists I think any other "jank" in the game is fine to be in there.

 

[Foo]

RNG on these melee characters isn't leaving guys, don't be ridiculous. The characters youre complaining about aren't even unbalanced and would be massively nerfed by removing those elements.

It's pretty gross to complain about LUIGI and PEACH, of all characters, ugh.

Not every complaint is a balance complaint, you know. Something can be bad for the game as a whole without being overpowered.

 

[MLGF]

All of these lists with Ike in high tier... I'm so happy ;_;

I mean, the swordies meta, along with spacies, are some of the least changed from 3.0.

So they better be lookin' good right now.

 

[Oracle]

lel the rng johns

 

[DMG]

I mean, the swordies meta, along with spacies, are some of the least changed from 3.0.

So they better be lookin' good right now.

Sword users didn't get many changes, however the general nerfs to recovery and nerfs to onstage gameplay have made them more solid. I'd say without being touched, they got some of the most benefit of these character nerfs (relative to how the rest of the cast benefits), sans maybe Jiggs getting an even bigger boost?

 

[howbadisbad]

So why don't they just change Mario and Luigi's down B's so you can hold the B for max height instead of playing mario party?

Hearing commentators call top Luigi's mario partying down b for recovery as "seizuring it" is off putting. I know they lessened the mario party slightly but why have mario party at all? No one in the right mind would think:

I think my character should have to mario party for their max recovery distance, playing mario party is a competitive and enriching addition to this character

Might need to nerf the max height slightly to compensate.

 

[steelguttey]

i could give less of a **** about rng except on olimar. that **** is stupid. rng is fine when its your choice that you used it like gnw and peach but you HAVE TO pluck pikmin with olimar and see what the cards give you. its not good design in any way. im surprised pmbr have kept it in for so long

 

[DMG]

i could give less of a **** about rng except on olimar. that **** is stupid. rng is fine when its your choice that you used it like gnw and peach but you HAVE TO pluck pikmin with olimar and see what the cards give you. its not good design in any way. im surprised pmbr have kept it in for so long

Olimar should always get Red Pikmin, and they should be renamed to "Chili Peppers"

 

[Deleted member]

No, they should be named steve

like this comment if you're a 12 year old who liked lets plays and watched chuggaaconroy... No one? Cool

 

[jtm94]

Haha at Luigi's misfire being random. That move is the 2nd most bs thing in the game besides Fox.

I really wish GnW could store a guaranteed 9 hammer that had invincibility on startup and propelled me at my opponent while also allowing me to use it to stall/recover.

 

[Bleck]

Not every complaint is a balance complaint, you know. Something can be bad for the game as a whole without being overpowered.

can we all just quote this repeatedly for a page

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

One can not play pm without first hating fox. This is equivalent exchange. Back in those days, I really believed...

 

[supascoot]

can we all just quote this repeatedly for a page

Yeah, I mean, Olimar was totally broken and stuff, why is a brawl character even in this game? While we're at it, why don't be make another mid tier character garbage by removing QAC, even if we don't know what it even does?

 

[Foo]

Yeah, I mean, Olimar was totally broken and stuff, why is a brawl character even in this game? While we're at it, why don't be make another mid tier character garbage by removing QAC, even if we don't know what it even does?

Here I am against to state the obvious! You can change a poorly designed mechanic without nerfing a character if you compensate for it with a buff!

 

[Beorn]

Yeah, I mean, Olimar was totally broken and stuff, why is a brawl character even in this game? While we're at it, why don't be make another mid tier character garbage by removing QAC, even if we don't know what it even does?

I'm just getting sick of this attitude. Why is it that Pikachu players, of all the characters who have been nerfed much harder, seem to think this one change is such a huge deal. Go look around the character boards. Just about everyone got nerfed and lost options like QAC for recovery and burst movement. Pikachu is not special.

I don't want to hear bull **** about how fox and falco were barely touched. They are obviously the exception not the rule. (and IDK about why G&W still gets a free pass?)

 

[Choice Scarf]

Seriously, it's not even like the recovery/burst movement options are gone - all that happened was they were nerfed in range. You can still recover on stage, it's just not safe because you can get intercepted much more easily.

And Pika did get a buff, it's called up-throw working properly. Most people (not even Pika players just in general) are just super fixated on QAC as if that's Pika's only move.

Can we instead focus on how Pika's range is just a terrible weakness? And even then on a more relevant thread? I want to hear more about why Olimar sucks. Or more seriously questions like why no one seems to be playing Pit anymore, is Jiggs still bad if Hbox won Forte 2 with her, or why the Link threads kind of threw a hissy-fit a couple of days ago, and what that means for their tier placement?

 

[Chevy]

GnW Judgement, Peach's turnips/beam sword/bob-omb/Mr. Saturn, and especially Luigi Misfire are fun. I've seen the salt that they induce first-hand, but it's better to just get over it. These things make the game more interesting because they're an extra amount of wackiness in an already fairly wacky game. I can only imagine that these minor RNG elements make the game more interesting for viewers too, how many highlight clips have you seen where Peach pulls something silly out and gets to put their beam sword, etc. practice to use? I'd rather not homogenize and dull the game any more than we need to.

I won't say anything about Olimar, because I have no idea what that character ever does.

 

[howbadisbad]

I don't even know why everyone is so mad about Luigi misfire in PM, it's "randomness" was heavily nerfed. (Go look at it's melee speed and acceleration versus its PM speed and acceleration)

Misfire still loses to every disjointed move ever, and you can react to it with shield or whatever if Luigi isn't right on top of you when it happens.

If you got misfired on while edgeguarding luigi it's your fault for not taking precautions against what the character has potential to do, just because it's "unlikely" doesn't mean it can't happen and you should prepare accordingly.

Getting yolo misfired at the end of a combo out of desperation is:

It's called playing the odds and maximizing your chances, not RNG ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Player -0]

Misfire is storable. It's much less yolo than G&W's hammer, even if you can increase the odds for the hammer.

 

[howbadisbad]

Misfire is storable. It's much less yolo than G&W's hammer, even if you can increase the odds for the hammer.

By yolo misfire i mean its not stored and not side b 6.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

If pikmin throws are dumb how about we do this:

normalize pikmin by replacing them
normalize olimar by replacing him with a giant purple
who plucks mini olimars

upon a side b olimar toss the thrown olimar dtilts across the stage carrying the foe to their doom
OMGScoots

 

[DMG]

"Pikachu's size is unrealistic. He's so tiny in the Pokemon games, we should make him smaller" - Actual suggestion on the Pika boards