He got a bit more grab range on standing grab. I don't think that changed his throw game by a significant degree, since after the initial grab he usually has the momentum from dashing/running to get his usual regrabs?
The point was about how it made no sense to buff his grab.
It would be like buffing Sonic's REEEEEEE because whocares.
Kind of related to this post regarding grabs.
Better word.
Cheese
Snake's U-Throw is cheesy.
It has low BKB so it sets up free combos and sticks early
It has a bunch of KBG so it sets up free kills with C4 late
It's from a Grab which is already one of Snake's best qualities
It's like how Pit's Grab could lead into anything at any time, and then its range was BUFFED going into 3.0
That's called cheesing. When you take something that's good, and you make it so good it's just like 'OK why the heck is this BETTER now?' and it becomes cheesy.
It's like Marioballz and Linkrangz. Should we buff them somehow? No. They're already really good qualities for them. If they were worse, would they still be good? Yeah. Are they at the point where it's like 'OK why the heck is this SO good?'
Probably.
Maybe Kirby's D-Throw is bordering on cheesy, but it's tagged to a character that has almost a harder time pressuring people into getting Grabbed than Snake, and doesn't have nearly as solid a Grab mechanically.
If you made the Grab bigger, you would definitely be getting too cheesy.
Does it need toning down? Probably, but some toning in its certainty for follow-up won't make it worse so much as less 'OK why is this so guaranteed' and it'll get rid of some of the cheesing aspect.
AKA, we're fermenting dairy products too much.
If that makes more sense.
I finally read through that whole thread and there are some good insights that would be helpful for everybody to internalize, but the gifs and bloated verbosity really don't help. Like, it's really brilliant and detailed with good specific examples but it should have all the extra crap stripped and maybe it would be read by as many people as it deserves to be.
Sounds about right.
Should have seen his early days he posted everywhere about everything. I was just a lurker and basically saw him spell out the entire evolution of the metagame up to this point and beyond along with all the little hidden details about every character in every way that people are just starting to figure out now. I get deja vu sometimes on here because it's like a repeat of what I saw from stalking him back in the day. Both on forums and in gameplay. That was back in Jan when 3.0 first came out too and did the same with every other patch when I lurked smashmods too. He used to coach the big names for a reason and these days he just has fanboiz but it's still for the same reason.
AKA, this
Welcome to Nausica posts, enjoy your stay!
Fortunately for the forums he's super-afk-from-life and has been for a long time.
I bet I'm doing a ****ty ****ing job at being the voice for his afkness around here too.
I can throw any projectile at yoshi side b and end it. I can play a swordy and dtilt it for free. I see no problem.
^Tru this
Yoshi's side-b is juvenile. Play someone like nausicaa and he'll Yoshi Dtilt your swordy back so much better than a swordy could possibly Dtilt a Yoshi, and you'll never again think Side B is the threat Yoshi poses you. Because it's TOTALLY NOT lol
I didn't mention Ivy's recovery because we know 3.5 is happening. Not point in mentioning it.
Funny you mention Lucario CC, when CC is his BIGGEST weakness. He's problem the #1 susceptible character to CC in the entire game. Pick Roy against a Lucario and watch how easy it is. It literally almost destroys his entire neutral game. Sounds like this is a matter of not knowing and exploiting Lucario's weaknesses.
Like I said I agree Squirtle is very annoying, but you want/expect a character to be changed if that character is fair. If he' snot broken he's not getting changed. I understand the way you feel, trust me lol, but it is what it is.
I don't understand how you seem to be getting pressured so well by ZSS lasers. Are you STANDING there letting someone set them up? Cause having 2 lasers flying at you one behind the other literally takes set-up time.
ZSS blaster is really fast and she makes more use of them in combo than in neutral really. Not even dash cancelled.
So really I don't know what either of you are talking about.
You don't need set-up for them unless you're charging them but that's kinda bad, just something like a hit (dash attack, dtilt, whatever) into SH/or-not laser into grab is possible even WITHOUT the dash cancel and that's the cool stuff anyway.
So yeah, being pressured by lasers might not be what he's talking about being annoying but you're right in that it shouldn't be a big deal whether it's dash-cancel or not.
Having a fast character with a decently quick projectile is annoying either way.
It's better than Wolf's at least. LOL
I quit playing Peach in PM because of Squirtle and Ivy
Squirt because it was just too much of a patience game waiting for him to run into my stuff since I couldn't break neutral but he could never get in on me either. Ivy because FREAKING UP B GOT BUFFED INTO 3.0 WHEN IT WAS ALREADY AMAZING.
Why do these kinds of buffs happen? Like seriously!!!!
They didn't let Links Rang slide, they buffed it into oblivion because they nerfed his Grab to oblivion (funny how his Grab/Dthrow is still great yet it's TRASH now compared to 2.1, his rang was TRASH in 2.1 compared to 3.0 rang but that's not saying it wasn't already good too)
AKA, grab and rang switch stupidity
I like this Link better though. Grab-stupid Link was stupider IMO
Just don't touch my Bowser Jab and I'm happy.
Such a sexy*** godang Jab mahgawdz
