Tier List Speculation

[Frost | Odds]

I'm pretty damn sure he won't be able to, sorry. Imagine trying to edge guard with it an- WHOOPS I SD'D

How would it be an SD? Adding an IASA to the airdrop would probably be trivial.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Lol Mewtwo is going to be nerfed so goddamned hard

Hopefully it goes something like BlazBlue CT Rachel > BlazBlue CS Rachel

Mewtwo gets nerfed
-you cry X as next broken character

And how do you know again? You're not even apart of the PMBR. Besides, tail nerfs and no more Hover out of Teleport won't make this character unusable all of a sudden lol. And it doesn't solve the problem that Ganondorf is still bad.

 

[Mr.Random]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDXpfZ0yTw8
This is what I like to see. Ganon destroying Mario!

 

[zeldasmash]

Lol Mewtwo is going to be nerfed so goddamned hard

Hopefully it goes something like BlazBlue CT Rachel > BlazBlue CS Rachel

More like Smash 64 Kirby > Melee Kirby. And considering that CS Rachel is one of the biggest beatings with the nerf stick i have ever seen in a fighting game, i don't think we want to see Mewtwo head down on that path. Should he be nerfed, Float out of Teleport should be taken out, but he should not be nerfed to the point where everyone dropped the character and went with someone else (like Rachel).

 

[Frost | Odds]

Most likely scenario: long list of nerfs, everyone quits mewtwo

6 months later, someone picks him back up, realizes he's still stupid strong.

 

[kaizo13]

so the sonic effect

yes, sonic is still good you crybabies

 

[Zx2963]

so the sonic effect

yes, sonic is still good you crybabies

Can he beat Fox though?

 

[kaizo13]

Can he beat Fox though?

of course
he's one of the best at gimping fox

 

[Zx2963]

of course
he's one of the best at gimping fox

I'm not so sure, the best sonic would not beat a good Fox (I'm referencing CEO)

 

[kaizo13]

you asked if sonic can beat fox, yes he can.
is sonic better than fox? no

good thing nobody plays a perfect fox

edit: and if you're asking for every character to go 50/50 with fox thats unrealistic

 

[Strong Badam]

so the sonic effect

yes, sonic is still good you crybabies

To be fair, he was nerfed and then buffed. Different scenario entirely.

 

[Deleted member]

Please note: This is my opinion because I haven't played the top TL players.

Pretty much no one on this thread has, you're not alone.

 

[MLGF]

Seriously, 2.6 Sonic was still good.
I've heard people act like he is trash but mid tier in an undeveloped meta is not "trash"

 

[Bazkip]

Pretty much no one on this thread has, you're not alone.

Lunchables vs Tier List Speculation Thread gauntlet gogogo

 

[Mr.Random]

Pretty sure PMBR learned their lesson about overbuffing and nerfing chars. I'm pretty sure even with nerfs Mario, M2, Fox and others will still be good.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Mario's nerf will probably be minor, to say the least. Now m2, I can see him losing a lot with the up coming patch. Fox? They'll probably do something again, that doesn't even matter.

 

[Mr.Random]

If Ganon were to get buffs I would give him two major ones and one minor give him above average dash speed (not Falcon maybe like somewhere around Bowser's) or better air speed and give him a faster jump squat (helping his OoS options. The minor one would be lower reaching hitboxes so short character don't **** him over.

 

[Plum]

Sheik escaped Ganon's grasp for years in OoT so it only makes sense canonically that I can avoid his grasp in Smash by crouching.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

so the sonic effect

yes, sonic is still good you crybabies

He's only good if you give him some ring emeralds.

 

[NickRiddle]

Pretty much no one on this thread has, you're not alone.

Come to Big House so I can change that!
I can't get to LTC 2 and it makes me sad.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Pretty sure PMBR learned their lesson about overbuffing and nerfing chars. I'm pretty sure even with nerfs Mario, M2, Fox and others will still be good.

They haven't overnerfed anyone - except maybe Sonic.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

They haven't overnerfed anyone - except maybe Sonic.

They over nerfed Lucario and Ike after their 2.1 builds

 

[Frost | Odds]

Have they been buffed again?

 

[Blank Mauser]

so the sonic effect

yes, sonic is still good you crybabies

That nair change helped a lot tho.

 

[kaizo13]

any character that received notable nerfs in the past and then was recompensated, was mostly due to redesign purposes

there's more to character balancing than just buffing or nerfing their current moveset

 

[Frost | Odds]

Oh, they also nerfed Bowser when he was already the worst character

But we don't talk about that :<

 

[kaizo13]

Oh, they also nerfed Bowser when he was already the worst character

But we don't talk about that :<

Bowser was never the worst. There was a point where Gimpyfish was taking all the tourneys and also a bunch of random Bowsers popped out of nowhere and started placing high.

I think the nerfs were justified

 

[Deleted member]

Come to Big House so I can change that!
I can't get to LTC 2 and it makes me sad.

Someone from michigan actually offered to pay for my hotel if I came to big house, and all of the TX guys are coming because TLOC is streaming. I'll try but yknow, being a kid is tough.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Scrubs not knowing how to play against bowser != bowser isn't awful

 

[kaizo13]

Scrubs not knowing how to play against bowser != bowser isn't awful

Silent Wolf, Bladewise and Vish are far from scrubs

 

[Vashimus]

Bowser was once reigning champ in tournament wins after Fox at one point, so it certainly wasn't a fluke. Regardless of whether he got nerfed or not, his metagame and results had no where to go but down as more players adapted.

 

[jtm94]

I'm just really hoping Zelda doesn't get changed because of scrubs complaining, even the same with Sonic and I hate Sonic. It's just that after playing characters while they were bad, I don't want to see Sonic go back to just being bad again. That would be inexcusable for the PMBR to make the same mistakes to the same characters and I can't play a game with such inconsistent character design.

 

[Paradoxium]

Lol I remember the whole bowser thing, it got to the point where people said he countered Fox.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Silent Wolf, Bladewise and Vish are far from scrubs

Bladewise is bad at PM, and Silent Wolf doesn't really play it iirc, nor does he have a lot of experience laming people out with grabs.

Luigi probably has a pretty awful MU on bowser though. Unless he doesn't. I don't know.

 

[trash?]

1) ike went from being silly bad design in 2.1 to being the solidest mid-tier in the entire cast, more changes like ike's imo

2) for a quick reminder, here's the 2.6 -> 3.0 changes on bowser

Spoiler

- Dash length very slightly shortened
- Dash grab reverted to pre-2.6 animation and tweaked for readability. Bowser grabs slightly later, but grab range should now match animation properly
- Up Tilt initial knockback stats increased to match Melee’s. Frame timing adjusted so that the move degrades sooner, when Bowser is swiping above his head
- Neutral Air knockback stats reduced to be closer to Melee’s
- Back Air’s IASA timings delayed to match Melee’s
- Forward Air’s hitboxes restructured into a tipper format. The inner “flub” hitboxes have damage and knockback approximating Melee’s hitboxes, while the tipper hitbox has damage and comparable knockback to PM 2.5’s forward air
- Forward air now has a claw trail that traces the hitbox arc
- Whirling Fortress edgehog behavior changed to no longer auto-snap to ledges. Requires some finesse to fortress hog now
- Grounded Whirling Fortress initial hitboxes further shrunk and later hitbox coverage restructured to match the animation better
- Aerial Whirling Fortress hitboxes redone to reduce vertical coverage and slightly increase horizontal reach
- Whirling Fortress animation has slight tweaks for polish
- Flamebreath hitboxes redone. They now start with lower damage but gain damage as they travel, being strongest at the tip. Grounded foes are now pushed down and out of the flames
- Aerial Flamebreath hitboxes have unaltered knockback behavior, but have the scaling damage and no longer flinch at the tip
- Aerial Koopa Klaw has slightly less horizontal movement

 

[jtm94]

Why did Bowser receive such changes? Yet Donkey Kong keeps getting better and better. Something seems fishy. They both share similar weaknesses and MUs from what I have seen/experienced, but DK absolutely wrecks any character he can combo. That grab range is absurd.

Donkey Kong is easy god tier post recovery conversion, he shouldn't receive any more beneficial changes. Hopefully Bowser gets at least something that isn't super armor oriented because that is a bad way to buff anything, I want the momentum from Koopa Klaw back.

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

1) ike went from being silly bad design in 2.1 to being the solidest mid-tier in the entire cast, more changes like ike's imo

I concur, Ike IMO is incredibly balanced, I hope PMBR uses him as a baseline for the 3.5 nerfs and buffs.

 

[Mr.Random]

Is Falco considered balanced atm? I still think something feels off about his design.

 

[t3chn0g0at]

I really don't think Mario or Zelda need to be changed. Zelda already isn't that good to begin with imo, and Mario feels really good, but he's more or less just the king of 'fair' characters.

 

[Ripple]

I've picked up olimar recently and I think he's also incredibly balanced.