BluntedMask
Smash Apprentice
We might be at a sweetspot with the game where you don't need to drastically nerf anything.
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I've felt this way since 2.0We might be at a sweetspot with the game where you don't need to drastically nerf anything.
Puffs?Buffs?
Wasn't that before edge teching, knockback stacking, and xyz fixes thoI've felt this way since 2.0
I'm very interested in hearing your reasoning behind that.Wow everyone is bashing Ice Climbers, they are mid-high, just have one of the hardest skill curves and no one playes them
Tell how in a PM. U do dis, I goWell for example I managed to control Nana's throw direction today. wb handoffs.
They weren't that badYou're banned. Like super duper banned. Silenced, muted, pudge hook + ulted banned
I can't tell if you're talking about 2.5 or current sonic"i don't need to commit ever. oh, you're correctly punishing me? i changed my mind, i'll be back in a minute"?
Eh Mewtwo is fine, people have beaten him countless times, he's not too good. I'd rather keep him as a spacie killerThe only character I think needs to be nerfed is Mewtwo. He currently has no weaknesses. After thinking about it for a while, the best way to nerf him without hurting his playstyle is to shorten his teleport. Make it about just above half it's current distance. His recovery would still be good with floats but not so free. His teleport shenanigans would still be intact but he'd have to move towards his opponents more which would give them a chance to punish him. His teleport would still be a good tool but wouldn't be so amazing.
noEh Mewtwo is fine
And what if your opponent knows that you are trying to perfectly space between their teleport and disjoints? I cannot tell you how many times I've been hit with wd back> Warp fair. I feel like m2 can easily beat you at the space game, because he has his camping projectiles, a reflector, huge disjoints, and warp. I think when you play m2's space game he has the upperhand.Mewtwo is nowhere near as bad as people say he is. He can be beaten if your willing to learn the space of his teleport and nullify it's "surprise" factor through movement. I:E get in that sweetspot of his tilts not reaching you but his teleport overshooting you. As for character changes, I wouldn't mind violating the holy ground of Super Smash Bros. Melee by making falcon more interesting. Really folks, he's broken and boring at the same time.
Scratch the broken part, I was thinking too deeply about the knee combo's I've suffered.
oh notbh just make it a zangief-style SPD grapple
he's basically a grappler anyways, right down to being the worst in the game
lolno. Bowser has Klaw, and he has a ton of garbage that's unsafe on shield and unsafe in general. If you don't win the 50/50 about 6 times in a row, you get 0-deathed instantlyyes, and yes
bowser has options to work with,
His jab is so boss thoughganon slowly whiffs moves and hope you're bad enough at the matchup to walk into them
How do you think water is wet? ~_~
She's far too safe onstage, and completely invincible offstage (not to mention having one of the best recoveries in the game). Kind of similar issues to mewtwo: moves are stupid long range and fast, and lack any sort of reasonable lag behind them. Punishing a competent Ivysaur is pretty much impossible for most characters without getting consistent hard reads.
That the upB is a guaranteed kill in one of the largest hitboxes in the game (and basically instant) just adds insult to injury.
Her design completely invalidates every large character in the game. Bowser, D3, DK, Zard, Ganon can't jump fast enough to get over Razor Leaf without getting hit by Ivy's fair. Shielding it is a guaranteed grab for Ivy, as is spotdodging, and CCing (because they can't act while the Leaf still overlaps them). It's also next to impossible for her to miss Vine Whip on any of these characters, and her edgeguards on DK and Bowser are beyond free. I'd rather play Melee Bowser vs Sheik than PM Bowser vs Ivy.
She has by far the best, and easiest, edgeguard game in PM. Use bair-> receive kill. Miss (though if you miss with that move PM probably isn't your game) -> who cares? You're totally safe. You also have the option of the spike with the enormous hitbox that, for some reason, pops you up just in case you were actually at risk of dying while getting an offstage kill.
I could go on, but the overall problem is that Ivy almost never has to take any risks, the other player almost always has to work much, much harder than the Ivy, as well as taking more risks and getting more hard reads to end up even.
I don't mean to sound hostile here, but if this isn't all super obvious to you, I suspect that you've never had to play against a competent ivy using any other non-spacie character.
There are a few who have even (or possibly better) MUs on her: fox, falco, *maybe* wolf, falcon, lucas, Diddy, but even those characters have lost the very instant they wind up offstage. Everyone else that I can think of has an overwhelmingly uphill battle in this matchup.
EDIT: yes, I'm aware of the futility of telling a bunch of Ivy players how little skill their character requires. :/
It's really not. -_-Her tether's surprisingly short
Not sure what you mean by that. It's utterly, completely, 100% safe against the overwhelming majority of the cast. A few people can get an upair if they hold the ledge against her in some very specific situations; but so what?and has an awkward angle for recovery.
Against big guys, yeah it is. Obviously not against Mario/Pikachu/people who can actually jump.Also razor leaf is not a guaranteed grab since 3.0.
I'll agree on the upB sweetspot though, it's ridiculous.
You don't have to sit there while she dairs, the move is pretty punishable, unlike Lucas' magnet who has a repeating hitbox.It's really not. -_-
Not that it matters. She doesn't even need to use her jump to get to tether-range from pretty much anywhere. Dair gives her a lot of horizontal reach.
What I mean by this is there's a specific zone where her tether works, and so long as you can knock her out of there before she tethers she's not coming back.Not sure what you mean by that. It's utterly, completely, 100% safe against the overwhelming majority of the cast. A few people can get an upair if they hold the ledge against her in some very specific situations; but so what?
So don't play big characters against Ivy.Against big guys, yeah it is. Obviously not against Mario/Pikachu/people who can actually jump.
He's only got two practical options for teleport, horizontal and low angle. Cover/avoid/bait accordingly.And what if your opponent knows that you are trying to perfectly space between their teleport and disjoints? I cannot tell you how many times I've been hit with wd back> Warp fair. I feel like m2 can easily beat you at the space game, because he has his camping projectiles, a reflector, huge disjoints, and warp. I think when you play m2's space game he has the upperhand.