Tier List Speculation

[Thor]

All of his moves are just perfect (Except for that super janky dair).

If he had his Brawl dair, with its trajectory and damage and such, he would be (as a guess) almost indisputably the best, because the gimping power of that thing is absurd - it's like a shine one wings and with a trajectory that knocks them farther out (Which is livable in Brawl thanks to slower fall speeds and somewhat longer recoveries for most characters).

You do realize if QD didn't make him helpless he could just do it again? Which would make his horizontal recovery completely psychotic.

Well it works just fine in Brawl Minus. [Note that this previous sentence was entirely sarcastic because it doesn't fit into the balancing scheme of Project M]. I think it'd be cool to seem the experiment with jump-cancelled QD in the air and/or being able to Aether out of a QD (or else being helpless after a QD), but I get the feeling this would make Ike's recovery stupid good [even if one QD per airtime] (like MK b-button options added to Jiggs mobility or something).

Barrels seeking the oppponent when didy gets hit is BS though, I think everyone agrees on that.

I'd support barrels going random for 1.5 seconds before targeting Diddy, only for the laughs in Diddy getting a free (mostly uncharged) up+B out of it if your opponent doesn't try to jump out and KO you. Or I'd support three barrels spawning, two of which track Diddy fervently while one tracks the opponent loosely.

Or I'd be fine with it being removed, but that's less amusing, and I'm not quite sure the above suggestions hurt balance that much...

Let's make tethers grab in the air!

...NO. That's a long-range air grab? For real? Forget tomahawking, just zair them... you couldn't even sit in shield versus a shorthop to do OoS stuff at that point, which would be silly. Sheik also doesn't need tether to be top tier (that's just silly) [unless of course it has about the range of Link's zair, then that might actually be the right-sized buff, since Link zair seems to have less range than just using his up+b].

so teleporting is alright, being able to transform your very body (and hair color) at will makes sense, but something actually based in the real world is a bit far-fetched?
???/???????

Note that the first person said "Magical/medieval", and that grenades are not magical or medieval, while teleporting and transformation are magical and therefore fit. (Admittedly, I think this standard is somewhat arbitrary - couldn't they be hollow rocks with magic inside, labeled grenades?) At least, that's the point they were making.

 

[woundedust]

Let's not forget that Chain Jacket is still in PM and Sheik can replace the chain's hitboxes with ANY of her hitboxes.

I hear swinging downsmash or fair around on a rope is pretty good. And I don't wanna hear it's hard to do, I just recently picked up Sheik and remembered it was in the game and I can do it 1 in 3 tries. If I practice I could actually make it an effective edge guard against any character who must recover to the edge.

She is mad good though. When I can just play patient Sheik and wait then punish with a grab into more grabs into ftilt, into dash attack, into nair, into another nair I think she's still pretty good.

Her recovery is poop for distance, but she has Zelda.

What is chain jacket? Please explain

 

[Seagull Joe]

I always feel a bit iffy to say metaknight da bes recently, because all the great MK players... really don't travel much? and because a lot of the P:M community is honestly centered around MDVA b/c of that being the popular stream, you don't hear much outside of it, despite the fact that I don't honestly believe any diddy player in MDVA could last a second vs. regions like tx and fl

You'd be very wrong about MDVA's 's not lasting vs Fl/Texas fool. Tho I'm pretty sure Awestin would beat me handily since is an anomaly to me.

 

[JOE!]

Let's change Sheik's Side B into grenades... because that makes sense for a medieval/magical fantasy setting

Link uses bombs, argument invalid

 

[mimgrim]

Link uses bombs, argument invalid

Ehhhh.

Bombs really aren't that far-fetched if we are talking medieval times. Gunpowder was introduced during this era which allowed for bombs. In fact, I would say the bombs of that time were closer to that of a grenade, they just weren't call a grenade.

But a grenade is an explosive all the same and is pretty much the same thing. The word just want really around back then.

 

[NickLeo]

I dunno what to think about tethers, they really break the flow of the game however.

How do they break the flow of the game? If you think about it, it's like sweetspotting the ledge with a really fast recovery BUT it has no hitboxes and can be easily punished if you take the ledge first. Also, tether characters don't have the ability to recover high, so if you take the ledge and jump+nair/bair they're screwed. It only breaks the flow of the game if you stand there and watch them recover then complain about how you think their recoveries are broken.

 

[NickRiddle]

You'd be very wrong about MDVA's 's not lasting vs Fl/Texas fool. Tho I'm pretty sure Awestin would beat me handily since is an anomaly to me.

FL might have one or two Diddys that mean anything, so you're probably right.

 

[CyberZixx]

So I made a tier list. Figured this thread could use one again. I left out ICs due to having no idea about where they stand. If anyone wants an explanation for a placement just ask.

Top Tier
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. MetaKnight
4. Diddy Kong
5. Wolf
6. Mario
7. Sheik
8. Lucas

High Tier
9. Pit
10. Link
11. Zelda
12. Snake
13. Ivysaur
14. Lucario
15. Peach
16. Ike
17. Zero Suit Samus

Upper Mid
18. Wario
19. Donkey Kong
20. Mewtwo
21. Marth
22. Rob
23. Charizard
24. Kirby
25. Sonic

Lower Mid
26. Samus
27. Toon Link
28. Olimar
29. Captain Falcon
30. Yoshi
31. Luigi
32. King DDD
33. Roy
34. Ness

Low Tier
35. Mr. G&W
36. Bowser
37. Squirtle
38. Pikachu
39. Jigglypuff
40. Ganondorf

 

[Deleted member]

TX would definitely beat MDVA, sorry to crush your dreams.

Also yeah awestin is nasty, he 3 or 4 stocks so many people that don't know what they're doing. I think he 4 stocked abstract logic on thursday during the weekly.

 

[jtm94]

Random guy in Erie showed up to our weekly. Said he hadn't played in a year. 3 and 4 stocked everyone with DK except resident Fox player.

DK is mad good son.

 

[DMG]

No

Random Guys are always OP

 

[didds]

So I made a tier list. Figured this thread could use one again. I left out ICs due to having no idea about where they stand. If anyone wants an explanation for a placement just ask.

Gahlike Tier
0. Random Guy

Top Tier
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. MetaKnight
4. Diddy Kong
5. Wolf
6. Mario
7. Sheik
8. Lucas

High Tier
9. Pit
10. Link
11. Zelda
12. Snake
13. Ivysaur
14. Lucario
15. Peach
16. Ike
17. Zero Suit Samus

Upper Mid
18. Wario
19. Donkey Kong
20. Mewtwo
21. Marth
22. Rob
23. Charizard
24. Kirby
25. Sonic

Lower Mid
26. Samus
27. Toon Link
28. Olimar
29. Captain Falcon
30. Yoshi
31. Luigi
32. King DDD
33. Roy
34. Ness

Low Tier
35. Mr. G&W
36. Bowser
37. Squirtle
38. Pikachu
39. Jigglypuff
40. Ganondorf

That's better

 

[Paradoxium]

So I made a tier list. Figured this thread could use one again. I left out ICs due to having no idea about where they stand. If anyone wants an explanation for a placement just ask.

Top Tier
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. MetaKnight
4. Diddy Kong
5. Wolf
6. Mario
7. Sheik
8. Lucas

High Tier
9. Pit
10. Link
11. Zelda
12. Snake
13. Ivysaur
14. Lucario
15. Peach
16. Ike
17. Zero Suit Samus

Upper Mid
18. Wario
19. Donkey Kong
20. Mewtwo
21. Marth
22. Rob
23. Charizard
24. Kirby
25. Sonic

Lower Mid
26. Samus
27. Toon Link
28. Olimar
29. Captain Falcon
30. Yoshi
31. Luigi
32. King DDD
33. Roy
34. Ness

Low Tier
35. Mr. G&W
36. Bowser
37. Squirtle
38. Pikachu
39. Jigglypuff
40. Ganondorf

Pikachu ranked 38, I can't wait for the day when a random Pikachu main crawls out of the woodwork and bodies everyone.

And my boy GnW, I cant bair to look at this list, I just cant do it. Im done

 

[CyberZixx]

Pikachu ranked 38, I can't wait for the day when a random Pikachu main crawls out of the woodwork and bodies everyone.

And my boy GnW, I cant bair to look at this list, I jusy cant do it. Im done

Sorry that the truth hurts . Pikachu that low saddens me as well. I love that little guy but I really don't see some of the claims to mid tier I see for the character. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[1FD]

a long time ago bamsy showed me some stuff with pika that just made him hard to hit but scary to do anything against
He was saying a lot of the difference had to do with ninja buffs like being able to dash backwards out of ISASA or whatever they are called frames on down tilt
In melee you could only dash forward out of them unlike marths down tilt etc in the game so you had to commit to forward stuff just by doing an approach poke or whatever
But now you can down tilt and instantly turn around and dash the other way or even to hit with the backside of instant short hop up airs
So it's completely safe and the down tilt connecting basically gets him a grab or sh attack every time and the up air connecting basically got a free whatever pika gets out of up airs LIKE EVERYTHING
And it's a wall of hit box from a distance
and add to that you can short hop Up air and instantly Up B into the stage at angles or whatever after it
so the up air becomes completely safe too since it has no lag at all and you go so far so fast without lag in any way

There were like a million things he was doing and showing me but i dont even know anymore that was a long time ago and havne't seen him in months but the 3.0 changes probably made it better since up B is faster and doing his cross up free shield poke pressure from a safe distance and never committing to things is probably scarier now
Also I think it was up b fair that was annoying because it shield pokes like garanteed even if you don't get combod after the dtilt and can roll away to not get grabbed or try shielding the followup or something
You just roll or shield and pika can up b fair your shield in the end and poke it then free grab
that's if the grab isn't free after the dtilt or whatever already
hitting pika is really hard if he doesn't want to get hit
it's like chasing falcon or fox but spazzy

Also late add some of the stuff he was talking about with @Anther in the pika boards was really good too and it brought up some cool stuff that kind of shows how much work there is to do even among really cool players and I think there are some pikas doing good work that will branch and build a lot more on what those 2 and axe have done already
Im not scared for pika

Also paradoxium Gdubbith has the best bair you know whats up
ITS A TURTLE LIKE COMMON




**** my spelling is ****

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

a long time ago bamsy showed me some stuff with pika that just made him hard to hit but scary to do anything against
He was saying a lot of the difference had to do with ninja buffs like being able to dash backwards out of ISASA or whatever they are called frames on down tilt
In melee you could only dash forward out of them unlike marths down tilt etc in the game so you had to commit to forward stuff just by doing an approach poke or whatever
But now you can down tilt and instantly turn around and dash the other way or even to hit with the backside of instant short hop up airs
So it's completely safe and the down tilt connecting basically gets him a grab or sh attack every time and the up air connecting basically got a free whatever pika gets out of up airs LIKE EVERYTHING
And it's a wall of hit box from a distance
and add to that you can short hop Up air and instantly Up B into the stage at angles or whatever after it
so the up air becomes completely safe too since it has no lag at all and you go so far so fast without lag in any way

There were like a million things he was doing and showing me but i dont even know anymore that was a long time ago and havne't seen him in months but the 3.0 changes probably made it better since up B is faster and doing his cross up free shield poke pressure from a safe distance and never committing to things is probably scarier now
Also I think it was up b fair that was annoying because it shield pokes like garanteed even if you don't get combod after the dtilt and can roll away to not get grabbed or try shielding the followup or something
You just roll or shield and pika can up b fair your shield in the end and poke it then free grab
that's if the grab isn't free after the dtilt or whatever already
hitting pika is really hard if he doesn't want to get hit
it's like chasing falcon or fox but spazzy

Also late add some of the stuff he was talking about with @Anther in the pika boards was really good too and it brought up some cool stuff that kind of shows how much work there is to do even among really cool players and I think there are some pikas doing good work that will branch and build a lot more on what those 2 and axe have done already
Im not scared for pika

Also paradoxium Gdubbith has the best bair you know whats up
ITS A TURTLE LIKE COMMON




**** my spelling is ****

I always pretend that your posts are being yelled out by a metalhead toddler re: your avatar. It makes it more amusing.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Something to keep in mind, folks.

Results do not equate to actual character viability, lol.

 

[Paradoxium]

Sorry that the truth hurts . Pikachu that low saddens me as well. I love that little guy but I really don't see some of the claims to mid tier I see for the character. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Think of all of Pikachu's weaknesses, he has answers to almost all of them. That is why I have him as solid mid tier

@ 1FD you caught that bair reference, this man 1FD knows whats real

 

[Seagull Joe]

TX would definitely beat MDVA, sorry to crush your dreams.

Also yeah awestin is nasty, he 3 or 4 stocks so many people that don't know what they're doing. I think he 4 stocked abstract logic on thursday during the weekly.

That's what Chicago said when they came to our region and they got **** on. ZeRo beat every player you have as far as I know, but he couldn't beat Chillin when he came here. I'd like to say that gives MD/VA an edge up on Texas for the time being .

Every region has such a huge ego at the moment because no national for PM has been brought to existence yet (surprisingly). There really should be a national soon with regional crews as a side event cause this egofest among regions is becoming so pedantic.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

That's what Chicago said when they came to our region and they got **** on. ZeRo beat every player you have as far as I know, but he couldn't beat Chillin when he came here. I'd like to say that gives MD/VA an edge up on Texas for the time being .

Every region has such a huge ego at the moment because no national for PM has been brought to existence yet (surprisingly). There really should be a national soon with regional crews as a side event cause this egofest among regions is becoming so pedantic.

I think a lot of people want to see the various regions' best duke it out.

 

[Player -0]

What're you guys talking about obviously SC is the best P:M region.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Also why is there a random DK I've never heard of clobbering Luck's Diddy on Stream right now

 

[Seagull Joe]

Also why is there a random DK I've never heard of clobbering Luck's Diddy on Stream right now

You could say for the random ...luck is on his side .

 

[rikochet]

I don't know why Mewtwo keeps getting thrown into the mid tiers. Maybe people aren't seeing the power unfolding on recent streams. M2k's mewtwo is pretty unbeatable for the most part. And Emukiller just won a local tournament today with some insane mewtwo tech skill. The more i see real good mewtwo play the more im convinced hes top tier

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

It's okay everyone, Luck made the 3 game comeback. With difficulty.

Also Diddy is so damn prevalent I literally opened the wrong stream and was like "Did Axxo switch to Falco mid-match?" before realizing.

 

[Hylian]

That's what Chicago said when they came to our region and they got **** on. ZeRo beat every player you have as far as I know, but he couldn't beat Chillin when he came here. I'd like to say that gives MD/VA an edge up on Texas for the time being .

Every region has such a huge ego at the moment because no national for PM has been brought to existence yet (surprisingly). There really should be a national soon with regional crews as a side event cause this egofest among regions is becoming so pedantic.

Uh what lol. Every person from chicago that went except Rat had been playing smash less than a year, and Rat got 3rd. They were missing Oro/Kirk/Scythe/KirkQ/Kels. Bragging about beating people new to the game? >_>.

Also Zero has improved a lot very recently especially since picking up Pit, when did he play chillin? Zero also beat M2K in a winners finals set recently it's no surprise he can go toe to toe with any PM player.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Uh what lol. Every person from chicago that went except Rat had been playing smash less than a year, and Rat got 3rd. They were missing Oro/Kirk/Scythe/KirkQ/Kels. Bragging about beating people new to the game? >_>.

Also Zero has improved a lot very recently especially since picking up Pit, when did he play chillin? Zero also beat M2K in a winners finals set recently it's no surprise he can go toe to toe with any PM player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui79QRfqrpU <<The crew battle.

Playing it for less then a year sounds like a huge john.

ZeRo played Chillin like 2-3 weeks ago. I don't think it was streamed.

 

[Paradoxium]

Where can I watch Zero vs M2k?

Link plz

Link...

LINK!!!!!!!!

 

[Hylian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui79QRfqrpU <<The crew battle.

Playing it for less then a year sounds like a huge john.

ZeRo played Chillin like 2-3 weeks ago. I don't think it was streamed.

Yes I saw the crew battle. It's kind of funny you think that is an accurate representation of chicagos skill haha. How is it a john they have literally been playing less than a year and are not chicagos top players. It's like if you guys sent a bunch of people who rarely place top 8 to chicago and they get bodied and then they say MD/VA sucks because of it..it's just stupid. Chicagos best players did not go to xanadu I don't know what kind of twisted logic you are using to use that as evidence lmao.

Also, chillin is amazing. Are you really going to use Inui logic to dismiss an entire region?

Edit: Paradoxium I don't think you can. Yay MLG.tv!!!!

 

[Paradoxium]

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

MLG WHY YOU DO DIS??????

AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!??

 

[Hylian]

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

MLG WHY YOU DO DIS??????

AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!??

Oh it's going to be even better when we can't watch MLG matches from the finals .

 

[Deleted member]

That's what Chicago said when they came to our region and they got **** on. ZeRo beat every player you have as far as I know, but he couldn't beat Chillin when he came here. I'd like to say that gives MD/VA an edge up on Texas for the time being .

Excuse me? You beat chicagos B team LOL, if you're taking pride in that then you need a reality check.

Also are you going to tell me that inui logic is ok? Because ZeRo > TX, MDVA > Zero, = MDVA > TX? Seagull get your **** straight. Any of the top 10 in TX could body you.

 

[Paradoxium]

Oh it's going to be even better when we can't watch MLG matches from the finals .

That's the Platinum age for ya. I like MLG but come on! Who on Earth thought it was a good idea to not let people rewatch matches?

 

[DMG]

Damnnnn

Trash talk goes hard on Smashboards

 

[Paradoxium]

Antarctica will **** all over your fake ass regions, we body ****** over wifi on the daily

#MeleeGang
#2Cold4YourRegions

 

[trash?]

I am so glad I accidentally caused a future crew battle

I'm still 100% on the side of TX here, especially in crews since their variety is bar-none

 

[Seagull Joe]

Excuse me? You beat chicagos B team LOL, if you're taking pride in that then you need a reality check.

Also are you going to tell me that inui logic is ok? Because ZeRo > TX, MDVA > Zero, = MDVA > TX? Seagull get your **** straight. Any of the top 10 in TX could body you.

I didn't even bring up my name. I have no clue how I'd do in Texas. I doubt "any" of the top 10 in texas would body me. I don't really care tho if they did tho LOL. Maybe I'll come out in the summer.

With 3.0 being out only 5 (?) months nothing is set in stone as to which region is the best. The only huge tourney multiple regions attended was Apex as far as I know and no crew battle happened. That was also very early into 3.0 when people were still learning the game itself. Boss, PF, and Chu weren't even good during this time period. Jcaesar was our best player at the time, but he's now down to like 7th or 8th probably.

Chicago also lost to our Xanadu Tuesday people, which doesn't reflect our full region either.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

No dudes I really want to see Chicago's A-Team v/s MDVA's. Y'all Xanadu tryhards need to drive over to the Windy City sometime for the glory.

What would that be, Chillin/Chu/Cyrain/P-Fresh/Boss?

 

[CyberZixx]

Pretty sure in MDVA only Chilin and Chu stand a chance vs Chicagos best. They would get bodied in another crew battle where Chicago is more stacked.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Welp, Sethlon just put Mango's Fox in Loser's at WHOBO. Great set. Chat exploded with johns, of course.