Tier List Speculation

[TheReflexWonder]

Marth is above-average. Still a fairly confident pick for Top 10 in my mind. Fundamentals are good; I don't think the cast is as well-equipped to deal with his neutral game as it's being suggested here and there. Sure, he's punished harder when he loses those situations, but his options are still enough where he wins those situations more often than not, and I think that many of the new characters get tossed around in a way that Marth can take advantage of very well.

Even if he may be lacking against some of the best characters, I feel he still shuts down a great deal of people in ways similar to Melee, which ends up mattering a lot.

 

[DMG]

Is this supposed to mean cheesy

No I meant Nacho Libre OF COURSE I MEANT CHEESY! Other synonyms: Strong, Abusable, Boomerang. People are <<<--- more than Marth sometimes

 

[MrBigstuff]

I don't understand people saying Toon Link's recovery is good. Yes, we've all seen that video, but Tink has to put in sooo much effort with AGT bomb jump shenanigans, and he has a tiny tether and pitiful Up B. Yes his recovery is better than some of the few Melee characters whose recoveries weren't really changed, but it's outclassed by nearly everyone, and I don't think it's better than the low end of decent.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

-me after umbreon's casual post

 

[GP&B]

I think you seriously underrate the strength of having both a normal recovery Up B and a tether together; Lucas' tether is also absolutely puny yet the option alone provides tons of mixups for recovering. I also don't see why having to put in effort = mediocre if the results provided are substantial. The effort factor is negligible if it means Tink can get back 90% of the time.

Also realize that Brawl tethers in general have very high vertical detection so Tink can still put himself below the stage and pretty safely hit the ledge with it.

 

[CyberZixx]

The only thing I think hurts Tink's recovery is his lack of weight. Other than that his recovery is solid but has a higher learning curve than just about any character.

 

[Vashimus]

Apparently Toon Link with his old Brawl Up-B, on top of the bomb glide tossing and the tether, made his recovery completely ridiculous.

 

[SixSaw]

Wario is bottom 10. Ganon probably has a better MU spread than him.

 

[DMG]

No
10no's
10Ganons

 

[Bryonato]

Ganon definitely does not have a better mu spread than wario lol

 

[Chevy]

I think you seriously underrate the strength of having both a normal recovery Up B and a tether together; Lucas' tether is also absolutely puny yet the option alone provides tons of mixups for recovering. I also don't see why having to put in effort = mediocre if the results provided are substantial. The effort factor is negligible if it means Tink can get back 90% of the time.

Also realize that Brawl tethers in general have very high vertical detection so Tink can still put himself below the stage and pretty safely hit the ledge with it.

Lucas's tether is actually about 3 times the length of his zair. I never see people use it's full length, but it's actually very long.

 

[ELI-mination]

Ganons foot is top tier
Then spacies
Then other characters
Then DK

 

[DMG]

Ganon's foot is only top tier when you surprisingly hit people with your ass instead

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I don't understand people saying Toon Link's recovery is good. Yes, we've all seen that video, but Tink has to put in sooo much effort with AGT bomb jump shenanigans, and he has a tiny tether and pitiful Up B. Yes his recovery is better than some of the few Melee characters whose recoveries weren't really changed, but it's outclassed by nearly everyone, and I don't think it's better than the low end of decent.

Because the ability to stall out many edge-guarding tactics and approach in several different ways, oftentimes cancelling certain approaches into other approaches, is very invaluable when recovering. Tink has the distance, but more importantly, he has something offstage that other characters don't: A lot of options. I've seen crazy shenanigans like AGT to walljump to airdodge to zair the original bomb to B-reverse arrow to then using the double jump to airdodge to tether to cancelled tether to Up-B. It is slow, predictable to an extent (Tink rarely has a reason to AGT down or away from the stage) and can be interrupted, but on the whole Tink is very safe coming back to the stage and has a lot of freedom to save his DJ for really crazy offstage games and cover his return with bombs and his quick aerials. Tink's recovery isn't lower than top 10, and the fact that it's not recognized as such by a lot of new to mid level players, while understandable, is kind of atrocious.

 

[Radical Larry]

Project M "Logic": Link > Marth

Hilarious, yes it is.
Truthful, let's see the results.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Project M "Logic": Link > Marth

Hilarious, yes it is.
Truthful, let's see the results.

have you watched any streams lately

 

[Paradoxium]

I beat a someone on wifi using nothing but nair, shine, and upsmash.

 

[Player -0]

I beat a someone on wifi using nothing but nair, shine, and upsmash.

I beat a someone on wifi using nothing but nair, shine, and upsmash.

I beat a someone on wifi

Good Job, I'm proud.

 

[Paradoxium]

Good Job, I'm proud.

so you assume just because it is wifi everyone sucks right? And the people who put long hours into practicing tech skill and learning match up knowledge automatically suck because they play wifi too right? And that mind games dont exist because it is on wifi right?
right? RIGHT?

 

[Player -0]

so you assume just because it is wifi everyone sucks right? And the people who put long hours into practicing tech skill and learning match up knowledge automatically suck because they play wifi too right?

*Gets mail, finds box*
*Checks box*
"Joke not recieved"

I know there are good players on WiFi it's just that it tends to lag/delay a lot.

Beating people with only Nair, Shine, and Up-Smash is pretty hard..... I have to resort to only using boomerang

 

[Paradoxium]

*Gets mail, finds box*
*Checks box*
"Joke not recieved"

I know there are good players on WiFi it's just that it tends to lag/delay a lot.

Beating people with only Nair, Shine, and Up-Smash is pretty hard..... I have to resort to only using boomerang

Nair, shine, and upsmash are all you need when playing Fox on wifi

And yes it lags/delays a lot but its not impossible to play on

 

[KayB]

Darky is a good example of a wi-fi player who plays god like locally.

 

[Paradoxium]

Darky is a good example of a wi-fi player who plays god like locally.

Didnt Darky almost beat m2k?

 

[Soft Serve]

Nair, shine, and upsmash are all you need when playing fox

Fixed

 

[Deleted member]

-me after umbreon's casual post

ha yeah i get that sometimes. idk i can do posts like that for marth and sheik but how many times can you explain the same stuff really

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

IDK I thought we could state that Toon Link's recovery wasn't **** just once

Yet here we are

 

[KuroganeHammer]

EDIT: **** I did it again. @ KuroganeHammer save me!!

I SAVED YOU

 

[Saproling]

So in my tier list and the community opinion, sheik is high up and at like top ten or above. She was great in melee, but who plays her in PM? Ive seen M2K switch to her every once in a while but other than that who plays her??

From what I understand her grab setups are worse than in melee and the stage magnets being stronger messes with how people want to play Shiek.I also think her over smash needs buffed as it seems pretty damn bad.Overall I personally would not put Shiek that high, but im also not the best person to have an opinion.

 

[Radical Larry]

have you watched any streams lately

I said it was hilarious and to see the results for match-ups. It's hilarious because of the thought of Link finally defeating Marth in now-every aspect.

 

[GP&B]

The impression I get from Umbreon on Sheik is that her extremely fast throw speed along with the changes to BThrow allow her to mixup on the opponent and get nearly guaranteed followups for it and actually benefit her the way they are now.

 

[Ace55]

I'd still put both Sheik and Marth in the 'perfectly viable, strong characters' section.

That goes for 80% of the cast at this point though.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I'd still put both Sheik and Marth in the 'perfectly viable, strong characters' section.

That goes for 80% of the cast at this point though.

so who isn't strong or viable?

 

[DrinkingFood]

After playing AeroLink, my opinion of boomerang has not changed
it's still extraordinarily stupid god damn I haven't seen a move that stupid since Ivy's 2.6 razor leaf
Literally every other move with link seems like it should be boomerang.
I get the concept of keep away, but even if you get in close it just seems entirely safe for link to just jump back->boomerang

You figure I wouldn't care as ROB with an approaching, reflecting side-b on the ground, but his ****ing reflector only even works half the time
Smacking him straight in the head regularly misses the reflection boxes
Come on JCz, can't that move at least do its job? lol
And **** trying to powershield with ROB... he can already be poked easily at his head or base after like a quarter second of shield time lmao

 

[DMG]

AeroLink will not stop using a move that good. I know your pain. He gives people's faces the Rang.

 

[DrinkingFood]

It still wouldn't even bother me that much if ROB's grounded side-b worked right
I get smacked out of it twice by 'rangs after the reflect box has started, and bombs blow up when I try to reflect because ROB runs into them with the side-b hitbox right after they get reflected
After a few times of that, in one game, that the move just kinda feels useless for the whole set
Even ****ing gyro is better for fighting off projectiles

 

[DMG]

What if ROB stuck out his arms during air Side B, and reflected projectiles? This makes no sense, mind you, but what if...

 

[Strong Badam]

What if ROB stuck out his arms during air Side B, and reflected projectiles? This makes no sense, mind you, but what if...

I'd pick him up lmao instant Falco killer.

 

[Ace55]

so who isn't strong or viable?

Possibly Fox at the top end (as in a little too strong and viable) and most likely Ganon at the bottom end. Other potential slackers are Bowser, DDD and maybe DK but those don't seem as severe as Ganon.

Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a difference between say MK tier and Ness tier, but imo they are both inside the 'looks ok let's see where this goes' category.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

I'd still put both Sheik and Marth in the 'perfectly viable, strong characters' section.

That goes for 80% of the cast at this point though.

I wouldnt say 80%, probably top 50% are just where we want them. For example in the tier list I made in my signature, the characters from C+ up are 'perfectly viable, strong characters' Then the C tier either needs more time to develop, or will receive some changes in the next update. They most likely are just waiting for a 'good' player to play them in tournament or something though and wont be changed much at all in future.

so who isn't strong or viable?

I'd say the characters in the C- or D tier arent that strong or viable. Yes they do do well every once and a while seen by fly with DDD, dakpo with G+W, and Hbox with oli. But this, I think is good players on a good day, plus they also use other characters, not them alone. They are the bottom ~25% which I think will be either minor buffed or some change in style.

Oh and vist with luigi is amazing to watch, he may just need to travel and play more so that luigi is truly revealed

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I wouldnt say 80%, probably top 50% are just where we want them. For example in the tier list I made in my signature, the characters from C+ up are 'perfectly viable, strong characters' Then the C tier either needs more time to develop, or will receive some changes in the next update. They most likely are just waiting for a 'good' player to play them in tournament or something though and wont be changed much at all in future.


I'd say the characters in the C- or D tier arent that strong or viable. Yes they do do well every once and a while seen by fly with DDD, dakpo with G+W, and Hbox with oli. But this, I think is good players on a good day, plus they also use other characters, not them alone. They are the bottom ~25% which I think will be either minor buffed or some change in style.

Oh and vist with luigi is amazing to watch, he may just need to travel and play more so that luigi is truly revealed

I'm intersted as to why you think olimar isn't viable. To me, he seems broken as all hell in lots of matchups, but has a few painful ones.
His only real issue is that his damn tether just doesn't like to grab the ledge sometimes and just shoots through it.