Tier List Speculation

[Metazoa]

However, in PM, pretty much all characters are either drastically more mobile or have more armor, and once you get in, you can do significantly more damage thanks to combos being available. Of all the characters, Olimar actually doesn't benefit much from these changes (he never wants to go in and his combos aren't great), so I feel like the switch to PM physics was basically all that was needed to fix him.

I'm gonna disagree with your assessment of PM Olimar as a [net]player of Olimar. I've found his combo game to be pretty damn good and he has quite a few tricks with chaingrabs.
PM Olimar, in my mind, is all about keeping the damage counter going up constantly, and he can do that pretty well. (until he gets, like, gimped or something)

 

[Jaedrik]

Yo, did you guys see Boss at Xanadu with Olimar? He wrecked some fools!

 

[Metazoa]

Boss played Olimar? Let me go copy that stuff see what he does out of curiosity.

 

[The_NZA]

Yo, did you guys see Boss at Xanadu with Olimar? He wrecked some fools!

I watched him and it demonstrated to me that even high level Olimar play is unfortunately boring .

 

[NightShadow6]

Olimar being aggressive is about as useful as burning a plant you're trying to grow.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Not if they're all Red Pikmin!

 

[NWRL]

I dont' really feel like doing a full tier list so I'll do the top 15 and bottom 5 I suppose

Top 5 is in any order

S






A












Bottom 5


Game and Watch




Bottom 5 are all viable I believe but they're just lacking in a way that can seriously affect their game. I felt kind of bad putting Bowser here but I feel that people are learning to play around his armor.

 

[Soft Serve]

Having falcon in the top 15 and not having peach in the top 12 bothers me, but overall i like your list. Falco and diddy might be a few spaces too high, i dont think falco is top 2 anymore, but thats just me.

 

[NWRL]

Having falcon in the top 15 and not having peach in the top 12 bothers me, but overall i like your list. Falco and diddy might be a few spaces too high, i dont think falco is top 2 anymore, but thats just me.

Peach is sort of an oversight, but that's because everyone else in the top 15 is a standout for sure, I'd say she's like in spot 16. Captain Falcon is a lot stronger than people give him credit for, he just has to be played way differently than his Melee self.

 

[B.W.]

Let's keep putting Olimar at the bottom.

Also Olimar with 6 Pikmin could potentialy be broken. Like, he has massive damage output with 4. But 6? God damn, forget it.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Guys, BEAST 4 just happened.

Professor Pro just literally doubled the amount of tech and combos and metagame Snake has, just thinking about it is making my head spin.

Yeah, this game is waaaay too young to be making definitive claims about characters. Except Armada's Pit, that thing is unbeatable.

#nerfArmada

 

[Bryonato]

Professor Pro just literally doubled the amount of tech and combos and metagame Snake has, just thinking about it is making my head spin.

how did you even determine/quantify that?

 

[jtm94]

Well you see it was already worldly accepted that Snake's grenades yielded 7 utility points which is incredibly high, but now after that you can measure a minimum utility increase in the grenade of 5. The C4 once had a minimal utility point value of 3, now has a definitive point value of at least 16, which is ridiculous. Never have I seen such a move gain so many utility points in such a short amount of time. It even rivals Sonic's spindash and Ike's quickdraw which have 11 and 14 utility points respectively.

 

[NWRL]

Well you see it was already worldly accepted that Snake's grenades yielded 7 utility points which is incredibly high, but now after that you can measure a minimum utility increase in the grenade of 5. The C4 once had a minimal utility point value of 3, now has a definitive point value of at least 16, which is ridiculous. Never have I seen such a move gain so many utility points in such a short amount of time. It even rivals Sonic's spindash and Ike's quickdraw which have 11 and 14 utility points respectively.

Wtf is a utility point and how do you determine how much a move has

 

[XXXX1000]

nwrl he's being sarcastic lol

professor pro showed that mindgames are a big part of snake play and that one can be formidable even with less technical skill

also in stream chat m2k listed MK as the best along with pit, lucas, wolf, and link so I think we should all bow down and respect the master's wishes t

 

[NWRL]

Oh... that's embarassing, I replied half asleep so I guess I didn't catch onto it LOL.

I see that M2K has the same opinion of Wolf as I do. MK being the best I can agree with as well but I don't think he's overwhelming since you can CC a lot of his moves and trade with him, and that ***** frail as hell

 

[MLGF]

M2K also said if Brawl's meta were to come to a close after Sm4sh's release, he'd pick up Meta Knight.
I think we may see some crazy MK stuff in a year or so, I feel like he'll apply all that theory fighter.

 

[Bryonato]

I always hoped m2k would pick up mk.

 

[9bit]

Meta2Knight

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

That would actually be pretty cool. M2K picking up his Brawl main in a Melee-esque environment? Intriguing.

Which of course leads to the logical conclusion that he's never going to seriously main Mewtwo.

 

[Hylian]

Do you guys actually know that it was M2K in the chat or are you all discussing possibilities from someone impersonation him(which happens all the time)?

Either way, doesn't matter.

 

[Infil]

Guys, BEAST 4 just happened.

Professor Pro just literally doubled the amount of tech and combos and metagame Snake has, just thinking about it is making my head spin.

Yeah, this game is waaaay too young to be making definitive claims about characters. Except Armada's Pit, that thing is unbeatable.

#nerfArmada

Are there results for this tournament somewhere? I can't find them and it seems like PM is done

 

[9bit]

Do you guys actually know that it was M2K in the chat or are you all discussing possibilities from someone impersonation him(which happens all the time)?

Either way, doesn't matter.

You mean Mew2kingsrockhardabs is an imposter!!?

 

[jtm94]

It was definitely M2K or someone carrying out his wishes. It's consistent with everything else he's ever said on his reputable sources.

Even though it's M2K does not make it 100% correct, and I'm not saying Link is good, or that Link is better than Fox, but he may top Fox (;

 

[Plum]

Do you guys actually know that it was M2K in the chat or are you all discussing possibilities from someone impersonation him(which happens all the time)?

Either way, doesn't matter.

I refuse to believe that jasonzimmermansleftnipple isn't actually M2K

 

[Ali Baba 177]

Nearly 50 people have voted in the past two weeks and itd be awesome if 100 people could participate in this community involved 'tier list'. Just trying to gather the most recent opinions on character placement and then I'll make a tier list combining these results with tournament results. Im posting in a lot of threads so there can be more more opinions as that will reflect more accurately. If you havent voted yet please do! (just 3.0 opinions please)

The first one has you rank each character individually 1-41, I arranged it to what I think so it can be easier but itll still take a little time.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GDPZ53B">Click here to take survey</a>

If you dont care as much and/or dont wanna spend as much time then this one is just rankings based on tier.
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GD3NDM9">Click here to take survey</a>

Thanks guys!

 

[BigglesWorth]

I wouldn't have a direct tier list for PM: I would have a list of solid characters who could win regardless of matchups (base tier), characters that don't have a lot of overwhelming tricks of their own but in general range to 60/40 to 40/60 matchups (side tier), characters who have really good and really bad matchups that vary from due to having huge strengths and huge weaknesses 70/30 to 30/70 (far tier), and characters who don't have that deep of skill ceiling and neutral game to really be on the level as the other characters (lesser tier). And also classify those who feel lack a deeper neutral game and skill ceiling (they rely too much on something to the point of lacking in general options).

Base Tier (55/45 to 45/55 matchups; generally could win)


Side Tier (60/40 to 40/60 matchups)

Far Tier (70/30 to 30/70; not a lot of answers for certain things but really good against a nice section of characters)

Lesser Tier (lacking of full features to be on the level of the other characters; not a lot of great matchups)


I

 

[Strong Badam]

Do you guys actually know that it was M2K in the chat or are you all discussing possibilities from someone impersonation him(which happens all the time)?

Either way, doesn't matter.

Jason's said that to me before, so I wouldn't be surprised if he said that in a Twitch chat. He (like everyone else) thinks MK is godlike.

 

[Bryonato]

I wouldn't have a direct tier list for PM: I would have a list of solid characters who could win regardless of matchups (base tier), characters that don't have a lot of overwhelming tricks of their own but in general range to 60/40 to 40/60 matchups (side tier), characters who have really good and really bad matchups that vary from due to having huge strengths and huge weaknesses 70/30 to 30/70 (far tier), and characters who don't have that deep of skill ceiling and neutral game to really be on the level as the other characters (lesser tier). And also classify those who feel lack a deeper neutral game and skill ceiling (they rely too much on something to the point of lacking in general options).

Base Tier (55/45 to 45/55 matchups; generally could win)


Side Tier (60/40 to 40/60 matchups)

Far Tier (70/30 to 30/70; not a lot of answers for certain things but really good against a nice section of characters)

Lesser Tier (lacking of full features to be on the level of the other characters; not a lot of great matchups)


I

I, of course, have my disagreements with some of the placements but I really like how you set this list up. Might have to try my hand at making one like this.

 

[Jacob29]

Do you really think bowser has nothing worse than a 45/55???

 

[Hashtag]

I'm trying to get his entire list honestly. I don't agree with quite a number on his list.

I like the classifications though, just not the placement of characters.

 

[BigglesWorth]

Do you really think bowser has nothing worse than a 45/55???

Not necessarily, these were general picks off the top of my head based on a lot of what I read, seen, and experienced. I don't claim that I won't make changes in a matter of weeks after actually having my full thoughts collected. Generally, I do think Bowser has all that he needs to win, but I do think it takes a certain set of skills (stage control, hard reads, willingness to trade) to pull that off.

Edit: grammatical errors.

 

[BigglesWorth]

I'm trying to get his entire list honestly. I don't agree with quite a number on his list.

I like the classifications though, just not the placement of characters.

Please rearrange them. I only wanted to give an example of how I see PM right now. There are more likely a few I would change.

 

[XXXX1000]

I would hope that the twitch account "Mew2king" belongs to Mew2king because it'd be super awkward if that ain't him

 

[NeonApophis]

My most recent attempt at a full tier list. I'm actually really happy with this one, it feels a lot more accurate than all of my past tier lists.

S Tier
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Lucas
4. Meta Knight
5. Wolf

A+ Tier
6. Peach
7. Sheik
8. Mario
9. Ivysaur
10. Pit
11. Squirtle
12. Link
13. Marth
14. Snake
15. Roy
16. Ike
17. Lucario

A Tier
18. Zelda
19. Game and Watch
20. ROB
21. Mewtwo
22. Ice Climbers
23. Donkey Kong
24. Charizard
25. Wario
26. Olimar
27. Sonic
28. Samus
29. Diddy Kong
30. Yoshi
31. Pikachu
32. Ness
33. Kirby
34. Bowser
35. Captain Falcon

A- Tier
36. Toon Link
37. Dedede
38. Luigi
39. Zero Suit Samus
40. Jigglypuff
41. Ganondorf

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

ZSS is far too low, and Roy too high, but besides those quibbles that looks accurate.

Jiggs really needs some help in this game. Her Melee tools ain't gonna cut it in P:M.

 

[Ripple]

I wouldn't have a direct tier list for PM: I would have a list of solid characters who could win regardless of matchups (base tier), characters that don't have a lot of overwhelming tricks of their own but in general range to 60/40 to 40/60 matchups (side tier), characters who have really good and really bad matchups that vary from due to having huge strengths and huge weaknesses 70/30 to 30/70 (far tier), and characters who don't have that deep of skill ceiling and neutral game to really be on the level as the other characters (lesser tier). And also classify those who feel lack a deeper neutral game and skill ceiling (they rely too much on something to the point of lacking in general options).

Base Tier (55/45 to 45/55 matchups; generally could win)


Side Tier (60/40 to 40/60 matchups)

Far Tier (70/30 to 30/70; not a lot of answers for certain things but really good against a nice section of characters)

Lesser Tier (lacking of full features to be on the level of the other characters; not a lot of great matchups)


I

What a surprise, forgets

 

[Ali Baba 177]

I know everyone hates the lettering system because it seems to convey a message that the D and F tiers are bad, but it doesnt mean that. I play Olimar and think he is pretty good, just probably bad MU's, and I've been bodied by several of the 'low tier' characters on this list several times. They just have bad MU's, havent been metadeveloped much, or just arent as viable as higher 'tier' characters.
Anyway this is the tier list I have so far from tournament results and community opinion.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I think DrrDrrDrr is one of those characters that lacks truly advantageous match-ups and a has a fair few disadvantageous ones. A lesser version of Ike's match-up spread in vBrawl.

I really don't think he's as trash as people keep saying.

 

[The_Altrox]

They'd respect him more if they gave him his title of "King" back.