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Almost every tier list still considered her in the bottom 15, and no tier list I saw put her much higher than that. In addition, borderline viable is not nearly good enough for the long term.
Fox has needed nerfs like forever, and I know he received some, but they weren't enough imo. I also think ZSS is pretty ridiculous now that half her moves are unclankable. Other than that I pretty much agree with you.
I need that shirt yoAs they say on... this T-shirt:
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LOL Ness has HAD time. His metagame has been developing without buffs for A YEAR. The only substantive change to him as a character was his magnet nerf.
i think S tier is Fox / meta /diddy. not sure the order yet.
I feel that people are starting to catch on to Diddy's potential. Toon Link however, despite being one of the most fun characters, isn't very good imo.Im with Kaeldiar, Let the game stand for a few months and develop and see which characters start getting left behind. Could just be a top lvl player hasnt picked them up yet.
Feel like Diddy / TL are super underrated
It's this kind of mentality I hate from the smash community, it's one of the reasons I didnt take the smash community seriously for awhile being apart of the fgc, using camping as terminology is IMO cancer. Use zoning, lame style or defensive play, I hate the idea that playing defensively is a bad thing...
Keeping in mind the quality of the players, I wouldnt say hes done well. These are top of the line players when it comes to smash, and pika is a veteran character who wont see much more development then what he received in melee (still not sure why they nerfed his uthrow in PM which is an important reason). These other underdeveloped characters are new and dont have such top quality players using them. Comparatively Pika is near his peak, and even with outstanding players using him his performance at Apex was bad.
How exactly is his grab game worse? the throws are taken directly from melee >.> Fthrow is similar to marths fthrow, in that if you don't DI perfectly and buffer a roll when you land, pika can cg most characters. Uthrow still wrecks fastfallers and bthrow carries the opponent a good distance to set up for a n edgeguard. Also you have no justification for pika not being able to tailspike as well anymore, which is absolutely just not true. His edge game is incredible, but you actually have to read your opponent to edgeguard them (news flash: this is how it has always worked). You can't always rely on reacting to what they do and executing something, the recoveries are too good. My point is that pika has the ability to go far offstage without much risk, which means that there are more opportunities for you to predict your opponent and land a hit. Add in stuff like fsmash being safer and having more range for onstage, qac to get back on stage quicker, and b reverse thunder, and pika has an incredibly reliable set of tools to edgeguard about every character. If you miss an edgeguard with pika, its because you messed up, not because of pika being bad. End of story
none of those players have seriously played PM besides anther, and even he lives in a region without a ton of activity. axe and chu did fairly well at apex without playing the game much, which goes to show that at the very least, pm pikachu is better than his melee counterpart.
For the hell of it, could you please list a few combos that worked in melee yet don't work on the same chars in PM. Because I've never heard anyone complain about that yet before you. And what is it about upair? Are the hitboxes different? Does it send at a different angle/less knockback? All I'm hearing now is 'you people just don't understand Pika like I do', which is probably true but your doing a lousy job explaining what it is that's different.
I get that this is based off of Apex, but Wolf should not be that low. At all.
No need to be like that, I'm just explaining why hes bad. And saying you are right doesnt make you right. Im very open to being convinced, but you dont even seem to be aware that uthrow wasnt taken directly from melee, which is 90% of what I mean when I say his grab game sucks compared to melee. The reason I dont say uthrow directly is because if there were improvements elsewhere it might not have made a difference (for instance, in brawl his dthrow does sort of the same thing), but that isnt the case. I wouldnt have anything to complain about if his uthrow was the same.
This is only if you disregard a character's weaknesses and strengths. -5 a character who doesnt rely on edgeguarding as much as pikachu does make pikachu relatively worse. Its like taking a wheelchair away from someone who can walk vs someone crippled to be fair but someone clearly suffers more. It mattered because pikachu had few things he was good at in the first place, and the buffs dont replace what was significant and taken away. Anyways, theres really not much left to say about it if its agreed pikas edgegame is weaker. Its like taking away a painter's brush.
Irrationally buffing characters we don't know much about is probably the worst way to achieve "the most balanced game of all time". Like I said before, it will encourage people to hold back strategies so they don't get nerfed, and it will encourage people to simply NOT develop strategies for so-called weaker characters because they figure why bother, they'll just get buffed later anyway.
I hope you're not suggesting that the balance in PM is anything like Brawl.
I mean, I agree with you. I don't mind playing against defensive styles of play (actually I find it refreshing to be able to think instead of getting run over, haha). I've never complained about a character being "too campy." However, I don't consider zoning and camping (sorry for using this word) to be the same thing, and I think one is definitely considered bad by most players.
"saying that pika's edgeguarding being weaker as a result of recoveries being generally better is a nerf is like almost useless"
I said he acknowledged his edge guard game was worse, that we cant disagree with anymore.
