Tier List Speculation

[Ripple]

anyone want to tell me why armada spammed the **** out of full hop double fair and not only got away with it, but M2K literally jumped into it half of he time

 

[CORY]

well, i can tell you why he did it:

M2K literally jumped into it half of he time

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

If your opponent doesn't adjust to your moves, that's on them.

 

[Fusiongt]

More like...

S:
1 - Armada
2 - Mew2King

 

[Daftatt]

wow, I pretty much disagree with almost all of OP's tier list.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

Shouldnt a tier list be mostly based on tournament results and some on who people think is better? Every tournament will update the tier list to new standards. Obviously the tier list was first created on this apex tournament and is still very free to mold into what it needs to be...

 

[BILL?]

Shiek belongs in S tier or A+ tier. Jiggs also A tier. She is essentially identical to her melee self, and that means jigs still wrecks in the right hands. For both of those, they weren't seen as much because melee doubles was on the same day. and we all know what Jiggs and Sheik can do in doubles.

Also, how on earth is Roy at 6? don't get me wrong, he's way better than in melee and Sethlon did great work, but he's still a long way from a spot in A-tier.

 

[Daftatt]

peoples, there is no point in arguing individual points of the tier list posted here, it is clearly not based on a broad collection of competitive play

 

[BILL?]

Good point, I forgot that this wasn't a tier list. It could be a tier list character placement in PM singles at Apex 2014 list, with a few tweaks here and there.

 

[BILL?]

I didn't realize how new you were here on the boards, so I'm sorry if we came off as too harsh. The thing is, there is already a thread clearly marked "PM 3.0 tier list" where you could have posted.

Also, while you are correct that a tier list is primarily based off of tournament results, those results only mean something because of the quantity of players placing with characters over time. Armada getting 1st means a few things: Armada is great, Pit is very much tournament viable, and maybe has good matchups vs spacies. Pit might be in the S tier, but it's anyone's guess really.
Multiple pit mains getting high placings in multiple tournaments at the top level of competition would be strong basis to place pit in S Tier.

Right now, PM3.0 tier lists are all speculative because there have not been enough major tournaments, or enough time for character meta to develop, or just enough time in general. Yours isn't necessarily wrong, it does have some rather odd placings but if we look at the initial Brawl tier list it was so far off from the later ones that it isn't even funny. PM is such a balanced game that the tier list is very much a nitpicky creation for most placements.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

If Hungrybox continues training his pocket Olimar, he might strike back soon. I guess one of his main problems is that Jigglypuff has some really bad matchups and having a twink Mario & Olimar will definitely help

 

[DrinkingFood]

Just posting the top 8 characters here for reference, maybe as a starting point for tier list talk.

1) Pit (Armada)
2) Fox (M2K, with a splash of Marth/Mewtwo here and there.)
3) Fox (DEHF - DEHF also beat Fly, SFAT and a couple other notables at a 96-man SoCal tourney, as Falco.

NOTABLE: Mew2King cleaned DEHF's clock pretty thoroughly going all Mewtwo, 3-0.

4) Snake (Rolex)
5) Roy (Sethlon)
5) King Dedede (Fly Amanita)
7) Ike (Ally)
7) R.O.B (Oracle)

2 Foxes
Is it 20XX already
Nerf Fox Buff everyone else

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Well I think Fox has still an advantage but not because of the character but because of the metagame. And with M2K and DEHF you have 2 players that not only play Melee Fox but also adapt to new P:M stuff.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I also have to say, mad respect for Armada in general, but particularly because he never once switched to Peach, even when it got clutch in Grand Finals. (admittedly, if he lost the set, he still had another, but his record of never giving a set to M2K was on the line.)

#SwedishSniper

 

[Phaiyte]

Olimar too high, Bowser, Charizard, Falcon all way too low.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

No man Charizard totally worst character

All he can do is Nair



Also what the hell is Wolf doing in C-, like REALLY?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The metagame is young. APEX results don't convince me of much of anything.

 

[Nguz95]

The metagame is young. APEX results don't convince me of much of anything.

Other than Squirtle sucks apparently...

 

[Kink-Link5]

Other than Squirtle sucks apparently...

No one needed convincing of this matter.

 

[Ali Baba 177]

Alrighty boys, I here what youre saying and I looked at about 15 tournaments on the recent side and put the top 8 or so into a computer numbering system and came with these results,, apparently jigglypuff hasnt really placed well lol

SSB PM (3.0) Tiers

S:
1 - Falco
2 - Marth
3 - Fox

A:
4 - Sheik
5 - Wario
6 - Link
7 - Metaknight
8 - Mario
9 - Mewtwo

A-:
10 - R.O.B.
11 - Captain Falcon
12 - Roy
13 - Dedede

B+:
14 - Charizrd
15 - Zelda
16 - Ike
17 - Pit

B:
18 - Snake
19 - Lucas
20 - Donkey Kong
21 - Wolf
22 - Diddy Kong

C+:
23 - Zero Suit Samus
24 - Luigi
25 - Toon Link

C:
26 - Ganondorf
27 - Bowser
28 - Pikachu
29 - Squirtle
30 - Kirby

D:
31 - Ivysaur
32 - Peach
33 - Samus
34 - Mr. Game and Watch
35 - Lucario
36 - Sonic

F:
37 - Jigglypuff
38 - Yoshi
39 - Ice Climbers
40 - Ness
41 - Olimar

 

[Scidadle]

Armada won apex does this mean pit is number 1 now? (sarcasm)

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Does Pit actually have even/positive matchups against Spacies, or was Armada playing spot-on/M2K did not know the matchup?

 

[Nguz95]

I personally think it's pretty even, but I don't really know what I'm talking about. All I know is that most Pits I have seen do pretty well against spacies.

 

[zman804]

http://www.twitch.tv/azprojectmelee

Streaming Apex Money Matches Feat Dakpo, Denti, Neon, Oracle, Strong Bad!

Edit: Thought this was the soical thread, sorry

 

[Vale]

Edit: Thought this was the soical thread, sorry

Don't worry, it basically is.

 

[jtm94]

In all honesty, there are only 2 reasons why Armada won with Pit versus M2K. 1. M2K chose to go Fox 2. He's Armada.

Pit is superb in his design atm.

People try to rate Zelda too high, she low.

 

[Sizzlorr217]

A while back I asked, why Wario is considered that high on the list... Well, i finally got to see Strong Bad playing for the first time onstream right before the Apex Grand Finale against Mew2King and... I don't know if I want to play any other character besides Wario now!

 

[Deleted member]

i got to play SB's wario over the weekend. i can confirm that wario is hella dangerous lol

 

[Hylian]

Yeahh...I've been saying this forever >_>. He's amazing, but man was he crazy in 2.6b.

 

[jtm94]

Did Strong Bad play in tourney? I'm sad I missed them playing.

So as far as my friends and myself have tested. Kirby's dash attack is FAR too useful. IT can't really be crouch cancelled, it clanks with moves so it's hard to hit him out of it, it has extremely low end lag, it makes neutral game against Kirby super scary because it just turns into baiting out the dash attack, and shielding it doesn't really reward any kind of punish.

This move is going to be slowed down and shortened in time. It does way too much at low risk.

 

[Metazoa]

You could try clanking with the move and then immediately trying something like a grab if you know it's coming. Say you're using Marth, maybe? It's probably weak enough so that jab can clank with it. Or you could Up-B OoS, maybe?

If you can't punish, at least you can set some pressure up or something if they're still grounded.

 

[jtm94]

You could try clanking with the move and then immediately trying something like a grab if you know it's coming. Say you're using Marth, maybe? It's probably weak enough so that jab can clank with it. Or you could Up-B OoS, maybe?

If you can't punish, at least you can set some pressure up or something if they're still grounded.

We're going to experiment with it today, but I think the move shapes the gameplay of the match a little too much.
If Kirby's dash attack stays people are going to exploit it for some mad janky stuff imo, unless there is some kind of simple counter we haven't thought of.

 

[DMG]

Does Pit actually have even/positive matchups against Spacies, or was Armada playing spot-on/M2K did not know the matchup?

Pretty even yes. I was surprised M2K didn't stay Marth tbh

 

[jtm94]

Pretty even yes. I was surprised M2K didn't stay Marth tbh

This times a thousand.
I feel Armada won slightly because M2K was stubborn and stayed Fox. I think Marth would have put in more work.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Since his Mewtwo and Marth both only dropped a game, might Sheik have been a choice? I think the matchup is even and since Pit acts a bit like Sheik M2K might have more experience with it

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Did people really doubt Wario or something? The fat guy's hella good

 

[DMG]

Since his Mewtwo and Marth both only dropped a game, might Sheik have been a choice? I think the matchup is even and since Pit acts a bit like Sheik M2K might have more experience with it

I think he was avoiding playing PM Sheik because it messes with his Melee Sheik iirc. Marth and Fox are much more similar

 

[Kink-Link5]

I think M2K secretly doesn't want to use PM sheik because vanishgliding is different.

 

[Mera Mera]

We're going to experiment with it today, but I think the move shapes the gameplay of the match a little too much.
If Kirby's dash attack stays people are going to exploit it for some mad janky stuff imo, unless there is some kind of simple counter we haven't thought of.

Aerials can't be clanked (except for ZSS's nair and Metaknight's tornado... unless that was changed from Brawl). So maybe jump back aerial and try to out range the dash attack. Afaik Kirby's dash attack doesn't have much of a forward disjoint, if any.

That said, I haven't really played many Kirby players so I don't know for sure that this will work well, but it seems like it would.

 

[Nguz95]

I feel like Ganon's fair/bair would smack Kirby's dash attack. Ganon might also be able to wizard's foot right through it. That would be awesome.