Tier List Speculation

[| Kailex |]

I still think that spacies are fun to play as :3
#freePMsocial

 

[Plum]

Being beatable doesn't mean that they aren't still problematic from a design standpoint.
Dominating the neutral to the degree that they can is warping.

#FreePMSocial

 

[Oracle]

i have yet to see a non space animal main say that fox/falco are beatable

 

[Plum]

Fox/Falco are beatable.
I main Sheik.


I don't think that exempts them from change though.

#FreePMSocial

 

[KayB]

Fox/Falco are beatable.
I main Sheik.

I bet you're fun at parties too.

#freepmsocial

 

[trash?]

they're beatable when you're using the kind of characters that are inevitably going to get nerfed

#freepmsocial

 

[Yobolight]

A lot of people like to spout platitudes about the spacies being OP in neutral, but the truth is that anyone who is half decent at powershielding, spacing, crouch canceling, dash dancing ,and wavedashing doesn't have to much problem getting in on them.

Heck some dude won a tournament with Bowser IN THEORY Bowser should get WRECKED in neutral by anyone with a projectile, but Kirk showing all the noobs out there that, yes powersheilding is important and if you suck at it then you need to quit being a ****** little noob and get better.

It really isn't that hard.

 

[Vashimus]

Its hard to talk about Falcon. One time you'll be saying buff him because he'll get scrapped, other times you'll be screaming because some Falcon main stopped your **** in or something. I'd prefer that he just doesn't have such a horrible recovery anyway. Ex. his recoveries shouldn't have such terrible landing lag.

That always seems to be the case with these, what I like to call "crack-head characters". You wanna tread lightly with trying to improve them, because they're the type of characters that can easily run a ****ing train on OMG WHAT DO I ****ING DO HOW THE **** DO I GET OUT OF THIS, THIS CHARACTER IS ****ING BULL****

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

A lot of people like to spout platitudes about the spacies being OP in neutral, but the truth is that anyone who is half decent at powershielding, spacing, crouch canceling, dash dancing ,and wavedashing doesn't have to much problem getting in on them.

Heck some dude won a tournament with Bowser IN THEORY Bowser should get WRECKED in neutral by anyone with a projectile, but Kirk showing all the noobs out there that, yes powersheilding is important and if you suck at it then you need to quit being a *****y little noob and get better.

It really isn't that hard.

nice strawmen there
A. Spacies don't need to do that, they control the neutral and any other character has to do a lot more to even compete.
B. If you actually knew what "in theory" means you'd know that there are outliers.
C. Rightfully calling a poorly-designed character poorly designed does not mean that any one person is a ****** noob.
D. Furthermore, just because a character is beatable doesn't mean they're a bad influence to the metagame. MK is beatable, the first Akuma was beatable, and heck, even the master hand glitch was beatable, but it doesn't mean that competitions are fair and immune to change.

 

[trash?]

you're pressing that on bowser being space-animal level, and not kirk knowing how to abuse unfamiliarity. people keep approaching bowser, when they should be forcing bowser to approach them

try playing a space animal as bowser when all they do is laser camp, see how far that gets you

 

[Sarix]

I feel like something people forget amidst all of this spacies salt is that in Melee they did have some 50/50 MUs. Both went even with Samus and Marth, and Falco also went even with Sheik, Jiggs, Peach & the ICs to my knowledge. I haven't heard anything on these MUs radically changing for the listed characters who've been released but at least it shows they didn't win vs the entire cast.

Granted this doesn't excuse the problems from the design standpoint of how extremely dominant and polarized they are in neutral. They don't need to be bludgeoned with the nerf bat but I could see the PMBR toning them down bit by bit in baby steps further along.

 

[Deleted member]

i have yet to see a non space animal main say that fox/falco are beatable

i think they're very beatable.

 

[Vashimus]

inb4 you don't count because Sheik

 

[Oracle]

wow i worded that really poorly. i should have said that i haven't seen a non spacie main defend spacies' balance in pm

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I feel like something people forget amidst all of this spacies salt is that in Melee they did have some 50/50 MUs. Both went even with Samus and Marth, and Falco also went even with Sheik, Jiggs, Peach & the ICs to my knowledge. I haven't heard anything on these MUs radically changing for the listed characters who've been released but at least it shows they didn't win vs the entire cast.

Granted this doesn't excuse the problems from the design standpoint of how extremely dominant and polarized they are in neutral. They don't need to be bludgeoned with the nerf bat but I could see the PMBR toning them down bit by bit in baby steps further along.

The spacies salt is more because of people dismissing the idea out of hand that anything can ever be done to the space animals, that they are the holy grail of programming and entire metagames should be programmed around them, and that any minor tweaks are heresy.

 

[Yobolight]

Oracle has become renowned for his salty johns about his less than incredible play ever since this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_LrtbOi5cs

 

[Giygacoal]

Does anyone else here watch RWBY? The half season finale is awesome. I'm also really glad the animation tech is being upgraded for future episodes.

 

[| Kailex |]

I do watch it, its kinda good.
Dont get drifted away from topic, just sayin
#FreePMSocial

 

[Plum]

Man, if only there were some sort of thread that we could use for off topic discussion.

#FreePMSocial

 

[| Kailex |]

Yeah, what could it be?
#FreePMSocial

 

[KayB]

You guys are getting off-topic, we need to continue trashing everyone's tier lists and their opinions.

#FreePMSocial

 

[| Kailex |]

Guess that Ill make mah own tier list, it will be based on thoughts; since I have no experience whatsoever

#FreePMSocial

 

[Vashimus]

KayB, who do you play again? Ivy? I forget.

#FreePMSocial

 

[KayB]

KayB, who do you play again? Ivy? I forget.

#FreePMSocial

Marth, Mario, DK, G&W, ZSS, Puff, Sheik, Wolf, Fox, Falco, and a few more.

My mains are mostly Marth and Mario, but I'm trying to get better with ZSS, G&W, Falcon, Peach, and Squirtle.

#FreePMSocial

 

[Strong Badam]

i have yet to see a non space animal main say that fox/falco are beatable

They're beatable.

 

[Giygacoal]

#FreePMSocialBecauseRWBYDemCombosSoSSStylish

 

[Vashimus]

Marth, Mario, DK, G&W, ZSS, Puff, Sheik, Wolf, Fox, Falco, and a few more.

My mains are mostly Marth and Mario, but I'm trying to get better with ZSS, G&W, Falcon, Peach, and Squirtle.

#FreePMSocial

I remember a while back you said people haven't realized what makes Pikachu so good, and you said it wasn't QAC. What was it?

 

[| Kailex |]

Because Im using my phone and im lazy, have this lazily bad-made list

A tier:

-Fox
-Falco


A- tier:

-MK
-Snake
-Diddy
-ZSS
-Wolf
-Mario
-Sheilda


B+ Tier:

-Marth
-Bowser
-Ivysaur
-Wario
-DK
-Peach
-Ness
-Lucas


B tier:

-Ike
-CF
-Sheik
-Jigz
-Squirtle
-TINKerbell
-Lucario
-Pikachu
-Pit
-ROB


B- tier:
-Zard
-D3
-Sonic
-Link
-GnW
-Ganondorf
-Luigi

Hype tier:

-Mewtwo
-Roy


Garbage:
-Pichu


Not ordered

#FreePMSocial

 

[Scythe]

I remember a while back you said people haven't realized what makes Pikachu so good, and you said it wasn't QAC. What was it?

it's a buffed fair, **** is cray

 

[KayB]

I remember a while back you said people haven't realized what makes Pikachu so good, and you said it wasn't QAC. What was it?

I said something among the lines of "Its like no one knows why Pikachu is good" because people would NEVER say anything about him and justify his placement on their respective tier lists. I myself didn't know why Pikachu was good. For the longest time I thought he sucked until recently lol.

#FreePMSocial

 

[Giygacoal]

Heh. Have you seen that change suggestion list on the Pikachu board? Kid's a noob who wants fair to be "buffed" and have KB like bair.

 

[Oracle]

Oracle has become renowned for his salty johns about his less than incredible play ever since this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_LrtbOi5cs

$50mm you can use all the spacies. nut up or shut up

 

[Paradoxium]

K im going to be the first to make this radical claim, i think in match of pika vs fox, the match is in PIKA'S FAVOR. just slightly, but still there. Yea i said it, i might be going crazy, i might already be crazy. It just seems like pika has that edge to go toe to toe with fox, he has a lot of tools to deal with fox's bs. That being said i still think pika is like low-mid tier.

 

[Calzum!]

I feel like something people forget amidst all of this spacies salt is that in Melee they did have some 50/50 MUs. Both went even with Samus and Marth, and Falco also went even with Sheik, Jiggs, Peach & the ICs to my knowledge. I haven't heard anything on these MUs radically changing for the listed characters who've been released but at least it shows they didn't win vs the entire cast.

Granted this doesn't excuse the problems from the design standpoint of how extremely dominant and polarized they are in neutral. They don't need to be bludgeoned with the nerf bat but I could see the PMBR toning them down bit by bit in baby steps further along.

i would not call falco peach 50/50

 

[Paradoxium]

you're pressing that on bowser being space-animal level, and not kirk knowing how to abuse unfamiliarity. people keep approaching bowser, when they should be forcing bowser to approach them

try playing a space animal as bowser when all they do is laser camp, see how far that gets you

Wasnt bowser given tools to deal with camping? I mean, he can cc lazers and shine, and hes got dat range/power. I think Bowser IS around that spacie level, because kirk fought a lot more characters than just space animals, he fought a lot of pm chars and skilled pm players

 

[Nguz95]

Guys, we really need to get back on topic. Shadic is going to come in here and shut us down really fast if we keep on going like this.

 

[Paradoxium]

Guys, we really need to get back on topic. Shadic is going to come in here and shut us down really fast if we keep on going like this.

Wwhat was the topic again? And i thought we could debate here

 

[Spiffykins]

Thread's already getting back on topic. Talking about how the thread will get locked if it goes off topic will only make it more off topic and thus get it locked. As such, and therefore wherewithal, wherefore art thou, ipso facto, etc etc, we should talk about it in every thread until every thread gets locked and they'll have no choice but to #freePMsocial

 

[Hylian]

I'm going to start Roombanning people who keep spamming in this forum. That means you won't be able to see/post anywhere on the PM section of smashboards. Nothing. It's getting ridiculous and driving away people who actually want to contribute to things.

#FreePMSocial posts will result in a 24 hour ban. Spam posts will result in an indefinite(probably over a year) roomban.

 

[| Kailex |]

Thats scary :C
Anyways back to my list that got ignored