Thoughts on MK

[DQP]

Let me get this straight: some people think MK is the most broken character ever, and that he should be banned from tournament play. Many people think that the only way to beat a MK player is to be a MK player yourself. I wholeheartedly disagree with the above statements.
In Melee, Fox was recieved with the same controversy as MK has now. But he wasn't banned now, was he? Too many people fell in love with the speed, accuracy, and shorthop-blaster shots that were involved. With the exception of that blaster bit, the same is true for MK today.
MK has his cons, too. All of his specials leave him helpless to fall to either the stage or the abyss below, and with the slight exception of the glide, none of these make for a exceptionately awesome recovery (that's what the extra jumps are for). Although fast, his attacks are very weak. While he excels at damaging quickly, he falters at a great kill move.
Meta Knight has his cons too. But people overestimate (or misunderestimate, as Youko famously put it) him, and I believe that he deserves a second chance!

 

[napZzz]

lol since when was fox received that way? He had bad match ups and counters, and didn't own everything he came across unlike mk.

Mk has many many kill moves

Dsmash, fsmash, shuttle loop, glide attack, and he gets gimps on characters sooooo sooo easy

 

[Tidycats29]

lol since when was fox received that way? He had bad match ups and counters, and didn't own everything he came across unlike mk.

Mk has many many kill moves

Dsmash, fsmash, shuttle loop, glide attack, and he gets gimps on characters sooooo sooo easy

the man speaks the truth

fox wasnt as broken as meta is

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Meta Knight may not have even a single disadvantage, but most of his match-ups with the upper Tiers hover around 60:40 (more or less depending on the character). In terms of match-ups, I wouldn't say that he ***** the majority of the cast. At least, not to the extent of Melee Sheik or Marth.

 

[yummynbeefy]

Let me get this straight: some people think MK is the most broken character ever, and that he should be banned from tournament play. Many people think that the only way to beat a MK player is to be a MK player yourself. I wholeheartedly disagree with the above statements.
In Melee, Fox was recieved with the same controversy as MK has now. But he wasn't banned now, was he? Too many people fell in love with the speed, accuracy, and shorthop-blaster shots that were involved. With the exception of that blaster bit, the same is true for MK today.
MK has his cons, too. All of his specials leave him helpless to fall to either the stage or the abyss below, and with the slight exception of the glide, none of these make for a exceptionately awesome recovery (that's what the extra jumps are for). Although fast, his attacks are very weak. While he excels at damaging quickly, he falters at a great kill move.
Meta Knight has his cons too. But people overestimate (or misunderestimate, as Youko famously put it) him, and I believe that he deserves a second chance!

no no no

all the top tier and high tier characters in melee had their bad matchups and disadvantages while they were obviously fewer than most characters they still had flaws

metaknight on the other hand ***** everyone in the game (well not **** but has no neutral or counterpickable matchups other than himself) has kill moves that takes 3 frames to come out with no lag what-so-ever

metaknight is the only character with this problem everyone else has their weaknesses

 

[Maniclysane]

no no no

all the top tier and high tier characters in melee had their bad matchups and disadvantages while they were obviously fewer than most characters they still had flaws

metaknight on the other hand ***** everyone in the game (well not **** but has no neutral or counterpickable matchups other than himself) has kill moves that takes 3 frames to come out with no lag what-so-ever

metaknight is the only character with this problem everyone else has their weaknesses

I doubt you played melee competitively, or even play competitively for that matter. MK isn't autorape.

 

[.AC.]

mk isnt unbeatable at all,while as tourney wins goes he is nothing compared to melee marth.

 

[JOE!]

melee marth has had 7 or so years to get that, MK has had bareley 1

just saying

 

[illinialex24]

He shouldn't be banned. What should be banned is King Dedede's infinite or G&W on like 5 characters. Thats much much much worse than MK.

 

[magikguy]

ban gnw? Which characters

 

[BlueShield]

Now Meta Knight is annoying, he has alot of kill moves kaya. And at the rate he racks up damage he, in the hands of a good player, is near impossible to beat. His recovery is beyond great and his knockback is as good as any other decent character. Shuttle Loop makes for one heck of a finisher and his FSmash, with the long start up lag, is a very hard to read move because he's so small. And also, who cares his crouch is the worst in the game? No one crouches anyway...

 

[Nic64]

melee marth has had 7 or so years to get that, MK has had bareley 1

relevance of this is pretty much zero.

metaknight on the other hand ***** everyone in the game (well not **** but has no neutral or counterpickable matchups other than himself)

Snake, Diddy, and Olimar are even with him IMO, and like 10 other characters he's still a very managable matchup.

has kill moves that takes 3 frames to come out with no lag what-so-ever

wrong on both counts. the only potential kill move MK has that comes out in 3 frames is his nair, which is probably the least likely to kill of all such attacks. dsmash hits on frame 5, shuttle loop hits on frame 8, fsmash has LOL start up time. every one of these attacks has ending lag, the dsmash which people love to complain about because they suck at the game gives you almost a half a second to punish MK if you block it(slightly under half a second to shield grab, slightly under a third of a second to drop your shield and do whatever you want, which is more than enough for most characters).

if you're going to complain that a character is broken you should at least know something about the character before you say it instead of making random baseless accusations. I can respect people who think that his flexibility and superior set of options are too good, I disagree, but I can respect that, but people who just run around spreading misinformation like "everything MK does is lagless" need to give it up, it's counter productive to your own agenda to continue.

 

[Ulevo]

And exactly how is this thread productive?

 

[vato_break]

Don't think you were around for melee buddy.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Melee Marth > Metaknight. Melee Fox = Metaknight.

End Thread.

 

[Tero.]

melee marth has had 7 or so years to get that, MK has had bareley 1

just saying

Brawl meta game actually evolves way faster than melee, because we have more knowledge of competitive gameplay and we don't start from zero (like from ssb64 to melee was totally diferent as from melee to brawl)

Melee Marth > Metaknight. Melee Fox = Metaknight.

End Thread.

What about Melee Sheik ?
Sheik is like ... the best Melee char, although only few people realized this.

lol since when was fox received that way? He had bad match ups and counters, and didn't own everything he came across unlike mk.

Fox has no real counter, more like even matchups, so has sheik.
This only applies on really high level tho.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

What about Melee Sheik ?
Sheik is like ... the best Melee char, although only few people realized this.

Sheik may not have had the huge tourney results of Marth, but I also feel that she is the best character n Melee. She basically ***** the majority of the cast (though had some slight trouble with Fox) and was the only character to counter Marth (65:35, I believe).

 

[JOE!]

relevance of this is pretty much zero.

How so?

I know the brawl meta game evolved much quicker, but its still evolving somewhat

so, for comparison.....lets say it took 3 years for marth to come to dominance

thats still more than 3x the chances to get wins to support a dominance standing vs MK's standing in brawl

(For example, Marth wins 90 big tourneys over 3 years where MK has won like 28 over 1 year)

see where Im going with that?

 

[Tero.]

How so?

I know the brawl meta game evolved much quicker, but its still evolving somewhat

so, for comparison.....lets say it took 3 years for marth to come to dominance

thats still more than 3x the chances to get wins to support a dominance standing vs MK's standing in brawl

(For example, Marth wins 90 big tourneys over 3 years where MK has won like 28 over 1 year)

see where Im going with that?

Sheik has dominated the tier list until July 06 and was indisputably #1 like MK is now.
Also one year after melee release we still had items on and played on stages like ic mountain (in tournaments, look at ken vs sam tg4) lol compare that to brawl 1 year after the release.

 

[JOE!]

i didnt, im comparing melee 4-5 years after release to brawl

Im not exactly 100% on pro melee history tho....when do you think would be a good point to compare to where Brawl is now?

 

[Nic64]

How so?

I know the brawl meta game evolved much quicker

you mostly answered your own question, the brawl meta game is years ahead of what the melee meta game was this early, people really didn't take melee so seriously at all where as brawl inherited a large competitive community. add to that the fact that brawl is a more shallow game to begin with and it makes all comparison pretty silly.

 

[DQP]

OK, I didn't play that much competitive melee, but I really disliked Fox. I sucked as him, and everyone else beat the crap out of me with him. I still stand by my opinion about MK.

Oh, and G+W shouldn't be banned either. So they buffed him a little. But that doesn't make him invincible.

 

[Affinity]

Oh, and G+W shouldn't be banned either. So they buffed him a little. But that doesn't make him invincible.

There's no talk of banning G&W.

Any talk of banning characters in this game is stupid. Period. MK is amazing, but not ban status.

 

[brinboy789]

i would think to him more of a melee shiek character wise and melee marth dominance wise. hes not as good as melee marths dominance (55% lol), but he dominates at a LOWER level, but as MK goes into higher levels of play, he isnt so dominant. same with melee shiek (iirc)

 

[DQP]

I saw somewhere on this thread that G+W should be banned, not MK. I wanted to respond to that.

 

[Affinity]

I saw somewhere on this thread that G+W should be banned, not MK. I wanted to respond to that.

They were probably kidding.

If they weren't, they should be slapped.

 

[DQP]

good to know

 

[smash brawl player 99021]

Broken Meta Knight Is Broken!!!

 

[JOE!]

you mostly answered your own question, the brawl meta game is years ahead of what the melee meta game was this early, people really didn't take melee so seriously at all where as brawl inherited a large competitive community. add to that the fact that brawl is a more shallow game to begin with and it makes all comparison pretty silly.

I suppose, but i only see half the answer:

why not compare melee to brawl on a basis of where melee was Meta-Game wise to where brawl is? Not just compare the actual times they've been out, but their "development" as a game?



On the topic:

MK isnt as bad as he seems, sure, he has no disadvantages, but 90% of his matchups are supposedly 60/40, which isnt *that* huge an adnvantage

Most of his bad rep is caused by the fact people see him as "OMG! Its MK! I cants win now...."
MK is a mind game in himself :D

 

[BlueShield]

After learning a few things I think that MK doesn't have the perfect matchup after all. Snake has him out matched in terms of range, power and priority. Other people have moves that out prioritize MK's foundation move, Mach Tornado *dun dun DUN* He only has 2 solid kill moves, really. And has no projectiles. That's gotta count for something. On singles he rocks. He knows how to rack up damage with no interuption.

Becuase of his awesome recovery he can gimp other's recovery really well but considering his 4 recovery moves can only be used on specific occasions MK players have to read if the move will work and get him back safely.

For example, Shuttle Loop sends him into a glide. Which goes in one direction, and Drill Rush is easily punishable. That cape teleporty thingy doesnt take you far and Mach Tornado bounces of the ledge if it connects with edge.

 

[Nic64]

MK outranges snake actually, and most of his attacks don't really follow the normal priority system anyway, it's just kind of hit them before they hit you. snakes advantage on MK is mostly his camping and the fact that he normally outlives and out damages MK unless you can get some good edge guarding off

 

[II Bolt II]

I personally feel that MK should be banned mainly for the fact that he'll keep getting more players and dominate the scene even more. As people see how **** MK is, they'll try him out. They'll practice. They'll get good. They'll use their main in a tourney, lose, pull out MK, win, see how good they did, and keep using him, and eventually they'll leave their main behind and use all MK once they see they can use him to win in ANY matchup. More and more players will do that, so then MK's start popping up more and more. There are examples of this with TOP PLAYERS! Look at Azen at HOBO 11. Azen loses to M2K with Lucario iirc. Azen Counterpicks's MK. Azen, the beast from the east, the one that knows every character, pretty much every matchup as well. He's forced to go MK. This shows us something, if one of the top players in the U.S. has to Counterpick MK, something's up.. Another Example that actually happned at C3 not even 2 weeks ago.. TheTantaulus mains R.O.B. and he did a Ditto Fight with another R.O.B. player, lost, and counterpicked with MK, thus Winning and proceeding through the Tournament. This happens a lot, people get less and less loyal to their mains and use primarily MK and eventually exclusively MK. MK shoots up tourney ranking everywhere, and less and less people who have a chance to find a way to beat MK with their character are out there. I'm by no means saying this happens to everyone.. but our community is abusing this character and it should be stopped someway.. somehow.

 

[Affinity]

lol @ people that still think MK should be banned.

 

[brinboy789]

I personally feel that MK should be banned mainly for the fact that he'll keep getting more players and dominate the scene even more. As people see how **** MK is, they'll try him out. They'll practice. They'll get good. They'll use their main in a tourney, lose, pull out MK, win, see how good they did, and keep using him, and eventually they'll leave their main behind and use all MK once they see they can use him to win in ANY matchup. More and more players will do that, so then MK's start popping up more and more. There are examples of this with TOP PLAYERS! Look at Azen at HOBO 11. Azen loses to M2K with Lucario iirc. Azen Counterpicks's MK. Azen, the beast from the east, the one that knows every character, pretty much every matchup as well. He's forced to go MK. This shows us something, if one of the top players in the U.S. has to Counterpick MK, something's up.. Another Example that actually happned at C3 not even 2 weeks ago.. TheTantaulus mains R.O.B. and he did a Ditto Fight with another R.O.B. player, lost, and counterpicked with MK, thus Winning and proceeding through the Tournament. This happens a lot, people get less and less loyal to their mains and use primarily MK and eventually exclusively MK. MK shoots up tourney ranking everywhere, and less and less people who have a chance to find a way to beat MK with their character are out there. I'm by no means saying this happens to everyone.. but our community is abusing this character and it should be stopped someway.. somehow.

Spoiler

im done here

 

[Darxmarth23]

Melee Fox and MK is an equal comparison alone. Fox got a 9.87 rating in melee. Marth got a 9.85 rating in melee. That is a win for fox by a very thin margin.

MK and snake have a difference. Its easier to beat a melee fox with marth than it is to beat an MK player with snake. Thats what the numbers say.

 

[brinboy789]

Melee Fox and MK is an equal comparison alone. Fox got a 9.87 rating in melee. Marth got a 9.85 rating in melee. That is a win for fox by a very thin margin.

MK and snake have a difference. Its easier to beat a melee fox with marth than it is to beat an MK player with snake. Thats what the numbers say.

well obviously. iirc, melee marth had an advantage on melee fox. like 55:45 or someting like that. MK vs snake isnt really established, too much debate, but its around neutral.

 

[II Bolt II]

...sigh...

Eh, its whatever.

 

[Hylian]

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