Those 16 Dummy slots, do you think they're getting filled?

[NintenRob]

With the announcement of more DLC on the way. We now know we're definitely getting more.

We also know there was 16 dummy slots found in the datamines.

I'm thinking, this makes perfect sense.

First of all, while a bit flimsy. This would perfectly fit the CSS in both Standard smash and squad strike. 7x13

Perfect.

Next is just timing. The plan is for the Switch to have a long life time. This would be about 3 years of support for Smash after its release. Perhaps less depending if we're still getting stages with each character.

This would be 5 years after the Switch first came out. Which is kinda standard lifetime for a Nintendo console. But the plan is for the switch to last longer. We might not see another console until 7 years after.

Either way, this seems like the perfect length of time to support Smash. It keeps it in mind for a good majority of the switch lifetime, while also giving it some breathing room until the next Smash in the next system.


What do you think?

 

[ZelDan]

Weren't 6 of those filled by Pirahna Plant and the 5 fighter's pass characters, leaving 10?

granted, 10 is still a pretty big number all things considered.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think this is the most likely situation. It perfectly rounds out to 3 season passes.

 

[NintenRob]

Weren't 6 of those filled by Pirahna Plant and the 5 fighter's pass characters, leaving 10?

granted, 10 is still a pretty big number all things considered.

Last I heard, one was filled by Piranha Plant. And one by each character since.


1. Piranha plant
2. Joker
3. Hero
4. Banjo and Kazooie
5. Terry
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.

 

[GoodGrief741]

At this point I'm on Team "Sakurai is a madman and he will literally not stop until it's literally impossible to do more". So yeah, I'm leaning towards those dummy slots being less "just in case" and more "Sakurai limiting himself".

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The only limit is how much Nintendo is willing to sink into dev costs and character negotiation.

Not even the latter if they add more of their own. Except with the Pokemon company.
They're difficult at the best of times.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In a word, yes. I think we clearly know what kind of situation we're dealing with now.

Spoiler

 

[RetrogamerMax]

My answer to your question: Yes, I do think all those WoL slots will be filled before the DLC lineup is over.

 

[Buzzwole]

I can see them being filled if we get echo fighters.

I'm not expecting any more than like, 3 additional characters after the fighters pass unless we start getting echo fighters... which I really think we should. It'd be such a waste to not start adding easy echoes like Funky Kong or Shadow.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I think we will be getting at least a second fighters pass.

Maybe the last five will be echos, maybe a third season. Maybe they will be weird and add more dummy files.

 

[12cheeper]

I can see them being filled if we get echo fighters.

I'm not expecting any more than like, 3 additional characters after the fighters pass unless we start getting echo fighters... which I really think we should. It'd be such a waste to not start adding easy echoes like Funky Kong or Shadow.

Do you really think the average consumer would fork over money for what are essentially clones with a more marketable name?As in,the kind of characters that people used to constantly complain about?Nintendo's made really confusing decisions in the past but I don't even think they'd be willing to make literally half of the DLC fighters glorified reskins of already existing fighters.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Do you really think the average consumer would fork over money for what are essentially clones with a more marketable name?As in,the kind of characters that people used to constantly complain about?Nintendo's made really confusing decisions in the past but I don't even think they'd be willing to make literally half of the DLC fighters glorified reskins of already existing fighters.

We did pay for a game in which half of the newcomers were clones, so yeah?

People used to complain about clones, but echoes were really successful as a rebranding and the ones introduced in Ultimate were received really great (character choice probably helped). With them probably being very cheap to make, if priced appropriately I don't see how it would be such a bad call.

 

[12cheeper]

We did pay for a game in which half of the newcomers were clones, so yeah?

People used to complain about clones, but echoes were really successful as a rebranding and the ones introduced in Ultimate were received really great (character choice probably helped). With them probably being very cheap to make, if priced appropriately I don't see how it would be such a bad call.

Ultimate also added Ridley,Simon Belmont and King K. Rool.All highly requested characters before ultimate who seemed like pipe dreams prior.Even then,there's a clear difference between paying 60$ for a smash game featuring every character in series history and explicitly paying extra money in addition to said 60$.Realistically,I don't think you could charge any more than 1.99$ each and even then most players would still consider the DLC a monumental dissapointment.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Ultimate also added Ridley,Simon Belmont and King K. Rool.All highly requested characters before ultimate who seemed like pipe dreams prior.Even then,there's a clear difference between paying 60$ for a smash game featuring every character in series history and explicitly paying extra money in addition to said 60$.Realistically,I don't think you could charge any more than 1.99$ each and even then most players would still consider the DLC a monumental dissapointment.

Even if Ultimate was great, people still didn't complain about echoes, and if the Smash community doesn't like something they will complain about it now matter what surrounds it.

I think $1.99 is a great pricepoint for Echoes. But I don't see why you'd think that would lead to massive disappointment. I mean, even if people didn't like Echoes they've also got at least 5 completely unique newcomers - probably more.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If there are gonna be Echoes, yes I do.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I'm kind of hesitant to think Sakurai will want to add echo fighters as dlc, given the opinions he's had on dlc in the past. (being worried about providing value)

It doesn't feel like a very Sakurai thing to do.

If he did add echo fighters as dlc I think they would be grouped together in a pack. (or they'd be tacked on to fighter passes, which so far hasn't been the case)

For arguments sake, what's so shocking about another two years of unique character DLC?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think Echoes could work as DLC, if they are way cheaper of course. They can also be DLC Echoes that are more akin to Chrom and Ken than Dark Pit and Richter for example. There’s lots of potential to be realized there.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I can see them being filled if we get echo fighters.

I'm not expecting any more than like, 3 additional characters after the fighters pass unless we start getting echo fighters... which I really think we should. It'd be such a waste to not start adding easy echoes like Funky Kong or Shadow.

I could see at least 5 to 7 more unique fighters honestly.

We did pay for a game in which half of the newcomers were clones, so yeah?

People used to complain about clones, but echoes were really successful as a rebranding and the ones introduced in Ultimate were received really great (character choice probably helped). With them probably being very cheap to make, if priced appropriately I don't see how it would be such a bad call.

The only reason people ain't complaining about Echos is because all the veterans in the series are in the game. Otherwise, people would think Echos would be taking away a slot of their all time favorite veteran.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think we will be getting at least a second fighters pass.

Maybe the last five will be echos, maybe a third season. Maybe they will be weird and add more dummy files.

I mean Dragon Ball FighterZ did something similar lately so it's not impossible

and to answer the main question: YES. yes they will. All of Smash 4's placeholder DLC slots were filled after all. one of the few cases where DLC placeholder slots weren't fully filled is Dissidia 012, which was largely due to DLC being unsuccessful on the PSP (and also the PSN 2011 data breach). Granted they were just for costumes and music but still.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

When you think about it, an Echo, even one on the level of Daisy and Richter, means that you're getting 8 new costumes, a new voice pack with custom taunts and victory poses and a new route on Classic mode.

Not bad for $1.99

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think some future DLC characters after the Season Pass will come with Echo Fighters and the Echo can be a Echo of that fighter or just come from the same series and be a Echo of a veteran or already existing character in the roster.

For example: Someone like Nightmare could come with Siegfried as his Echo and a unique Dixie Kong could come with Funky Kong as a DK Echo. Echos could be sold alongside unique fighters just like Mii costumes.

 

[link2702]

I was called crazy before for it, but I truly believe sakurai’s dream for this game is to hit 100 characters somehow.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I was called crazy before for it, but I truly believe sakurai’s dream for this game is to hit 100 characters somehow.

Sakurai be like "**** it! Let's go straight to 100."

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that we are most likely going to have all those slots filled up.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if Sakurai wants to overtake Tobal 2 as the fighting game with the largest cast.

Though Tobal resorted to such luminaries as Green wizard so that may be a challenge.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wonder if Sakurai wants to overtake Tobal 2 as the fighting game with the largest cast.

Though Tobal resorted to such luminaries as Green wizard so that may be a challenge.

Doesn’t Tobal 2 have 200, not 100? Doubt Smash would go past 115 at a maximum

Even so, quality over quantity

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Doesn’t Tobal 2 have 200, not 100? Doubt Smash would go past 115 at a maximum

Even so, quality over quantity

Well with Echos I could see them doing it.
Though I'm not sure who would pay to have every Belmont, all of Sonic's buddies and every generation's Pikaclone.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Doesn’t Tobal 2 have 200, not 100? Doubt Smash would go past 115 at a maximum

Even so, quality over quantity

200 characters?! Holy **** that's a big *** roster. I would drool over a Smash roster that big.

Well with Echos I could see them doing it.
Though I'm not sure who would pay to have every Belmont, all of Sonic's buddies and every generation's Pikaclone.

There would have to be a Echo for every unique character in the roster for Echos to push the roster number all the way to 200. I don't see that happening at all as a bunch of characters don't really have another character that could be Echo material of them. I could see at least another 15 to 20 characters in the roster that have potential to have a Echo but not everybody.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The only reason people ain't complaining about Echos is because all the veterans in the series are in the game. Otherwise, people would think Echos would be taking away a slot of their all time favorite veteran.

That's an unverifiable statement. Not much to say other than I don't think that would have been the case.

 

[StormC]

I'm honestly really not sure. Maybe if one set is Echo Fighters. 3+ years of post-launch support would be crazy, but I also thought more DLC past the Fighters Pass would be a pipe dream.

One thing is I don't know if Nintendo wants the cumulative DLC to cost more than the game itself. The full Smash Ultimate experience costing ~$140 (including Piranha Plant) seems crazy. But again. I thought we would only get one season, so clearly what I speculate doesn't mean much.

I'm very curious how this will shake out. For the first time in forever, Smash speculation feels truly open.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well, I'm gonna type up as many Echos as I can think of, noting any moveset differences

Mario- Shadow Mario, Metal Mario (uses low poly model and old textures to distinguish self)
Donkey Kong- Funky Kong
Link- Twilight Princess Link (uses old moveset from 4)
Samus- Other Hutners (would be a waste of moveset potential but hey)
Yoshi- Yarn Yoshi, Birbo (suction instead of tounge)
Kirby- Shadow Kirby, Gooey, Keeby
Fox- Slippy, Peppy, James
Pikachu- Raichu, Pachirisu, Emolga, Togedemaru
Luigi- Gooigi (mah man!)
Captain Falcon- Blood Falcon, Black Shadow, Phoenix
Ness- Ninten, Paula, Poo
Jigglypuff- Igglybuff, Koffing

More to come.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Here is my Echo Fighters list:

/Metal Sonic
/Medusa
/Funky Kong
/Dixie Kong (She could be a Echo, but that would be such a waste of potential for a character of her caliber.)
/Dry Bowser
/Demise
/Black Shadow
/Black Knight
/Galacta Knight
/Ms. Pac-Man
/Proto Man
/Octolings
/Ninten
/Kasumi
/Impa
/Boshi
/Hilda

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Part 2

Peach- Peachette
Bowser- Dry Bowser
Ice Climbers- ...Drawing a blank here...
Sheik- Impa
Zelda- Hilda, Twili Midna, Toon Zelda
Dr. Mario- Dr. Luigi, whatever nuttiness comes with the Dr. Mario app.
Pichu- Plusle, Minum
Falco- Peppy, Slippy, Katt
Marth- Another Sword Lord, there's a lot to pick from
Young Link- Classic Link
Ganondorf- Wind Waker Ganondorf
Mewtwo- Freeza...?
Roy- Yet another Sword Lord
Mr. Game and Watch- another difficult one. Ms. Game and Watch?

 

[Buzzwole]

Do you really think the average consumer would fork over money for what are essentially clones with a more marketable name?As in,the kind of characters that people used to constantly complain about?Nintendo's made really confusing decisions in the past but I don't even think they'd be willing to make literally half of the DLC fighters glorified reskins of already existing fighters.

I don't think they'd sell as well as regular characters, but I still think they'd sell well enough. Echoes would take less effort to create, so they'd probably still make money even if fewer people bought them.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Here are my thoughts on the subject right now: we have 10 dummy slots in WoL remaining after the Pass. Nintendo also said "new fighters" are in development, so even in the most pessimistic outlook possible, that means at least two. So an "average guess" would be something between 2 and 10, methinks.

As for the content itself... if we do get just 3 or 4 more, I can see all of them being third party. More than that, though, and it starts getting a little hard, because by then I think we'd have very few "extreme hype" characters. If we get all slots filled, my best bet is a mixed batch, with maybe one or two Spirit, Mii or even AT upgrades. Well, either that or Echoes.

To wrap this up, a list of how both the WoL slots (just characters = 16) and CSS slots (characters + alt costumes = 30) should look right now. Keep in mind I'm counting at least two extra characters preemptively here. For the CSS slots, I counted Terry, Pass character 5 and these 2 minimum bonus characters as one alt each, at least until we have confirmation.

Spoiler: WoL Slots

1. Piranha Plant
2. Joker
3. Hero
4. Banjo & Kazooie
5. Terry
6. {Challenger Pack #5}
7. {Bonus Fighter #1}
8. {Bonus Fighter #2}

TOTAL: 8/16

Spoiler: CSS Slots

1. Piranha Plant {Pot}
2. Piranha Plant {Pipe}
3. Joker {Thief}
4. Joker {Student}
5. Hero {DQXI}
6. Hero {DQIII}
7. Hero {DQIV}
8. Hero {DQVIII}
9. Banjo & Kazooie
10. Terry
11. {Challenger Pack #5}
12. {Bonus Fighter #1}
13. {Bonus Fighter #2}

TOTAL: 13/30

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Yes, I do think every single one of them will be filled.

It's not from a single link, but just from a bunch of stuff I know. Feel free to link this post in your post or whatever if you want?

In Smash 4, there were empty "Character IDs" in the code that were found as soon as the game released. It turns out, these were meant for the DLC fighters. At launch, there were 9 character IDs in Smash 4's data. Later on, an extra one was added that was empty. By the time all of the DLC fighters released, every single one of those slots were filled. Bayonetta took up 2, Cloud took up 2, Corrin took up 2, and the other four characters each took one, for a total of 10. You can pretty obviously infer what a character ID is from that alone, but if you can't...

A character ID needs to be seperate if there's anything different at all in the programming. The most obvious example of this is characters with an alternate version for two genders, such as Corrin or Wii Fit or Robin, etc. This also includes alternate designs, such as Cloud's FF7/Advent Children skins, or Bayonetta's designs from both games. To give you a better idea, Bowser Jr. takes up EIGHT character IDs, one for each Koopaling. In Smash Ultimate, Hero obviously takes up 4, and Joker takes up 2. Piranha Plant DOES NOT take up 2, despite having a pot for some skins and a pipe for others. This is likely because the changes don't have any additional effects or real processing changes.

In Smash Ultimate, again, unused empty Character IDs were found in the data at launch. Exactly 29 of them. You may have heard it was 30, that was incorrect. There were EXACTLY 29. I counted them myself, in this case. After Piranha Plant and Joker released, and they filled up as many of those slots as we expected, it can be inferred that the other 26 would be filled up too. We're now at 22, after Hero.

Seperately from the Character IDs, after Piranha Plant was released, they added a function to put DLC fighters into the Adventure Mode, World of Light. When Piranha Plant was put in this way, he brought 15 unused slots to do the exact same thing. These 15 slots are DIFFERENT from Character IDs, as they SPECIFICALLY MEAN CHARACTERS. They're used for unlocking the characters in WoL, so alt skins are not a factor here.

While there's no real precedent to say the 15 WoL slots are definitely going to be used, there IS a precedent to assume the 29 character IDs WILL be used, because they were in Smash 4. Smash 4 was made by the same programming team, and thus would likely follow similar structures and rules for how they do things. Since 29 character IDs is quite a lot, you could assume we'd get at least 10-15 characters just to keep everyone at an average of 1-3 character IDs each. This lines up really well with the WoL slots, of course.

Keep in mind, all of this is just information DIRECTLY DATAMINED FROM THE VIDEO GAME. Below is some speculation on what this likely means.

Piranha Plant was likely meant to be in the base game of Ultimate, judging by his Palutena's Guidance and some other things. This would mean the original plan was likely to have ALL DLC be part of a fighter pass, and thus multiples of five. We can pretty safely assume from this that more than one Fighter Pass had been planned since before Ultimate was released.

Because the WoL slots could mean echo fighters, and because planning out 15 full unique fighters around two years in advance seems ridiculous, it's very likely, at least in my opinion, that at least 5 of these WoL slots belong to echo fighters. My personal theory is that we're going to get a second fighter pass that has echo fighters bundled in, instead of stages.

That's about all there is to say on it, I guess.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Yes, I do think every single one of them will be filled.

So after Banjo, there's 21 IDs left and 11 characters left?

Am I reading that right?

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

So after Banjo, there's 21 IDs left and 11 characters left?

Am I reading that right?

No. After Banjo, there's 21 IDs and 12 characters left. Terry does take up 1 though, so 11 characters after Terry. That's probably what you meant.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I see.
I'm almost certain Terry's going to get an alt based off his leather jacket design so that's another one down if so.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I see.
I'm almost certain Terry's going to get an alt based off his leather jacket design so that's another one down if so.

I actually think his KoF XIV red jacket is slightly more likely because of the hat being there, plus the fact that it's a more recent redesign... but you never know, some alts have slightly different animations, so I can definitely see him getting an alt either way.