Meta "This is the Monado's Power" - Metagame Discussion

[Berserker.]

So... Just for the kicks, I've noticed that you can play Shulk in a LOT of ways. Some of them work. Some of them are iffy. It really depends on your tastes and skill levels

Buster centric playstyle

This playstyle relies on purely using buster to deal damage. Jump and speed are only means of going into the right position or getting into a positional advantage. Really, the objective here is to actually rely on buster once you're at range. You'll be racking up damage with buster. Speed and jump are only used to traverse to wherever you need to go. Shield is for survival or stock tanking. Smash is for KO'ing.

Momentum based playstyle

Your mostly using speed and jump art in tandem. Buster art takes a back seat and is only pulled out to either gain the lead or to mount a come back. You'll rely on your sheer mobility, off-stage edgeguarding, and gimping abilities with speed or jump. You're probably going to use jump to KO most of the time. How? Gimping (or rage f-air). Speed will be your main means of racking up damage

All around playstyle

You use any art depending on the match up. Or depending on what you feel like using. You could start with speed/buster but at mid percentages, you either go for buster/speed/jump. Each art has its perks at each range of percentage. At higher percentages, your likely going to go for jump or smash. There isn't much to say about this. You're not really rendering any art as unimportant unless you want to talk about shield here

Buster>Smash playstyle

THIS STYLE.... It works wonderfully if the match up favors Shulk or if you're really sure that you can outplay your opponent. Could also work if you're amazing with buster spacing. This style can only be pulled off efficiently if you maximize buster usage which is honestly quite difficult.

 

[erico9001]

So... the counter actually has invincibility frames at the way start where you are immune to grabs. I've had some grab attempts fail on my counter due to this. I am testing it in training mode right now, and what I have found is it's a very short frame of invincibility. You need to be very lucky for this to happen.

 

[Zatchiel]

You need to be very lucky for this to happen.

Strongly depends on how lenient the cooldown is, of the attack or grab that whiffs during the frames of invincibility we have. I've had it happen numerous times out of my favor. The opponent whiffs a grab due to the counter and often has enough time to throw out a smash or connect with a second grab to punish Vision's cooldown.

 

[erico9001]

Strongly depends on how lenient the cooldown is, of the attack or grab that whiffs during the frames of invincibility we have. I've had it happen numerous times out of my favor. The opponent whiffs a grab due to the counter and often has enough time to throw out a smash or connect with a second grab to punish Vision's cooldown.

I suppose it could really be unlucky, then . Fortunately for me, my opponents weren't able to react to it in time.

 

[Superbat]

So... Just for the kicks, I've noticed that you can play Shulk in a LOT of ways. Some of them work. Some of them are iffy. It really depends on your tastes and skill levels

Buster centric playstyle

This playstyle relies on purely using buster to deal damage. Jump and speed are only means of going into the right position or getting into a positional advantage. Really, the objective here is to actually rely on buster once you're at range. You'll be racking up damage with buster. Speed and jump are only used to traverse to wherever you need to go. Shield is for survival or stock tanking. Smash is for KO'ing.

Momentum based playstyle

Your mostly using speed and jump art in tandem. Buster art takes a back seat and is only pulled out to either gain the lead or to mount a come back. You'll rely on your sheer mobility, off-stage edgeguarding, and gimping abilities with speed or jump. You're probably going to use jump to KO most of the time. How? Gimping (or rage f-air). Speed will be your main means of racking up damage

All around playstyle

You use any art depending on the match up. Or depending on what you feel like using. You could start with speed/buster but at mid percentages, you either go for buster/speed/jump. Each art has its perks at each range of percentage. At higher percentages, your likely going to go for jump or smash. There isn't much to say about this. You're not really rendering any art as unimportant unless you want to talk about shield here

Buster>Smash playstyle

THIS STYLE.... It works wonderfully if the match up favors Shulk or if you're really sure that you can outplay your opponent. Could also work if you're amazing with buster spacing. This style can only be pulled off efficiently if you maximize buster usage which is honestly quite difficult.

Which playstyle do you think is most effective for a beginner shulk? Alright I try that. thx

 

[Berserker.]

Which playstyle do you think is most effective for a beginner shulk?

To be honest, I'm not really sure but you can't go wrong with a momentum-based playstyle. I guess. Since it capitalizes on speed (and jump)

UM..... The Shulk here just cancelled his u-smash animation. Wtf how??!?

 

[TheHopefulHero]

To be honest, I'm not really sure but you can't go wrong with a momentum-based playstyle. I guess. Since it capitalizes on speed (and jump)

UM..... The Shulk here just cancelled his u-smash animation. Wtf how??!?

I'd say that going with a All-Around style can give anyone a basic idea what the arts do. Learn how to cover ground quickly with Jump and Speed, survive to crazy % with Shield, build up % with Buster and finishing foes off with Smash; this is a really good starting ground for any starting off Shulk. Once they have an understanding, they can build a preference based on what they learned. Personally, I mainly play with an All-Around, but I feel like there's more styles with Shulk we haven't discovered (Vanilla Shulk can be used for scouting purposes I supposed).


How did he do that?! It looked like he was about to run off, but the Up-Smash animation canceled it out.... Think we should try this out in the lab?

 

[Scarhi]

UM..... The Shulk here just cancelled his u-smash animation. Wtf how??!?

Maybe it has something to do with Lylat's tilting sometimes making characters leave the ground? Like, the stage made him leave the ground for a split second while the Usmash animation was ongoing?

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

It's definitely Lylat's weird tilting angles. I've done that on accident before with Zelda's usmash on that stage so I'd assume that happened to Shulk for the same reason

 

[Ultinarok]

So... Just for the kicks, I've noticed that you can play Shulk in a LOT of ways. Some of them work. Some of them are iffy. It really depends on your tastes and skill levels

Buster centric playstyle

This playstyle relies on purely using buster to deal damage. Jump and speed are only means of going into the right position or getting into a positional advantage. Really, the objective here is to actually rely on buster once you're at range. You'll be racking up damage with buster. Speed and jump are only used to traverse to wherever you need to go. Shield is for survival or stock tanking. Smash is for KO'ing.

Momentum based playstyle

Your mostly using speed and jump art in tandem. Buster art takes a back seat and is only pulled out to either gain the lead or to mount a come back. You'll rely on your sheer mobility, off-stage edgeguarding, and gimping abilities with speed or jump. You're probably going to use jump to KO most of the time. How? Gimping (or rage f-air). Speed will be your main means of racking up damage

All around playstyle

You use any art depending on the match up. Or depending on what you feel like using. You could start with speed/buster but at mid percentages, you either go for buster/speed/jump. Each art has its perks at each range of percentage. At higher percentages, your likely going to go for jump or smash. There isn't much to say about this. You're not really rendering any art as unimportant unless you want to talk about shield here

Buster>Smash playstyle

THIS STYLE.... It works wonderfully if the match up favors Shulk or if you're really sure that you can outplay your opponent. Could also work if you're amazing with buster spacing. This style can only be pulled off efficiently if you maximize buster usage which is honestly quite difficult.

Very smart post, and very true. I'd call my style all-around, because I try to mix things up for a number of reasons:

-To get the most out of Shulk.
-To get a feel for every Art and when it is best to use them. After extensive practice against the AI and over 3000 total KOs using an all-around style, my familiarity with them is rather good, minus Shield, since I always beat the AI by too wide a margin to need to preserve a stock, and maybe Jump, which I'm still practicing.
-To be as unpredictable as possible and keep an opponent guessing. If I stick with speed, they're going to know I'm going for it. If I keep using Buster on a fresh stock, they're going to get in on me to capitalize on my increased damage.


Usually Speed is my go-to, which I follow up with Smash if I have a lead and Speed wears off before I take the stock. If my opponent is at low % and already in close, I use Buster to make use of damage, and when I'm ready to edgeguard or juggle, I go for Jump to apply pressure at the blast zones and net early kills. Sniping an opponent at the top blast zone with the apex of AS in Jump is so satisfying.

One cannot hide from Shulk thanks to the Arts, that's what I've learned.

Fun little contest to see how well you use your character: 7 vs 1 against the AI. Even at Lv1 getting hit with 7 jabs will knock you down quickly, and it really helps train you to be aggressive since you have to separate the AI. Incidentally, in a 5 stock game, the only character I've been able to play and beat all of the AI without losing a stock was Shulk. I lost 1 with every other character, but I survived with about 120% as Shulk and got all 35 KOs.

Its easy as pie for a skilled player or a pro, but its still really invigorating and fun and I encourage everyone to try it. At lv1 its exciting to see if you can beat them all without dying, or if you can outright win at all against lv3 and lv4 (not super challenging still, but it can hairy if you make a mistake). And I played against them like I would a tough opponent, so I don't spam Smash Attacks and Vision when I do this, just natural strings and art switching (I never use Vision against the AI since they read inputs).

 

[Berserker.]

I sometimes go for a buster-centric playstyle. I use buster to fish out habits. The low knockback allows me to see how they react to the low hitsun and the low knockback. The next time they're in the same situation, I'm usually ready to bet on the right read by placing my hitboxes at the right area.

 

[Peppa]

I've been trying to experiment with both, and I think it should be more match up dependent but I've noticed has a really hard time getting in in a neutral setting especially against higher tiers so buster centric really fails out in a camping situation, so the momentum based style has really seemed to work wonders after learning things like perfect pivot grabs with speed Monado boy can get in fast.
Here's hoping they don't touch him in the balance tweaks.

 

[Berserker.]

Momentum based playstyle is the most solid and consistent for neutral control. There's a reason why Gnes uses it ALL the time. It has the least chance of flopping hard and the consequences for flopping are fairly minimal compared to having a buster-centric playstyle, or even an all around playstyle. It's the safest playstyle with also the greatest opportunity for gimping/early KO's

 

[erico9001]

It's been a while since I posted something here. This has to do with changing to Shield, Jump, or Speed after having been knocked off of the stage.

If the art activates while you are in motion in the air, you will be put into the monado art activation animation. When you are in this animation, your horizontal air movement cannot be changed. It remains completely constant. Also, the animation cannot be cancelled by moving. This has a three implications:
1) Switching to Monado Shield off-stage will not lower air speed from Vanilla for the duration of the monado art activation animation. Switching to monado shield while recovering is safer than you would normally think.
2) When switching to Monado Speed or Monado Jump off-stage, you should air-dodge out of the activation animation so that you can start accelerating.
3) If you have your art activate while you are moving out, off of the stage, you will continue going off of the stage if you try to move the joystick back. This has killed me once. You can cancel the animation with a jump, but you need to air dodge or use an aerial attack if you don't have one.

edit: lol typos

 

[Masonomace]

If the art activates while you are in motion in the air, you will be put into the monado art activation animation. When you are in this animation, your horizontal air movement cannot be changed. It remainscompletely constant. Also, the animation cannot be cancelled by moving. This has a two implications:
1) Switching to Monado Shield off-stage will not lower air speed from Vanilla for the duration of the monado art activation animation. Switching to monado shield while recovering is safer than you would normally think.

If only Smashboards had a love word to click instead of like. Yes this is amazing & I humbly agree that players do this more often. Although I'm a Shield Art fanatic, this one tactic alone goes a long way for me. The performance of this tactic is the same with Decisive Shield but that only requires faster cycling done very early. Hyper Shield by far makes the most of this because you're the heaviest character in the game that reduces hit-stun so much, that it's theoretically impossible to juggle Hyper Shield Shulk & expect to gimp him. As long as Advancing Air Slash is equipped, you not only feel absolutely safe utilizing this tactic with a Shield Art active but also more defensive by challenging off-stage edge-guarding against you early.

 

[Zatchiel]

Switching to Monado Shield off-stage will not lower air speed from Vanilla for the duration of the monado art activation animation. Switching to monado shield while recovering is safer than you would normally think.

This is pretty major. Something I think is pretty frustrating for the opponent is at high percents, using a single midair jump to recover with Jump stance then switching to Shield slightly before or at the apex of the jump. You retain the air speed of Jump for a short while, before Shield activates, and if your opponent manages to punish you for your landing decision odds are you won't be dying for it unless it's a ridiculously strong punish. To boot, if you land with an airdodge at a favorable time after selecting Shield, the invincibility frames will provide even greater (if not absolute) insurance against the punishment. I usually attempt to retaliate as soon as possible so I rarely make use of said frames unless I'm facing a character that can harass the crap out of me while I'm trying to land.

If there's a hungry opponent looking to finish our stock hanging out near the ledge (I'm looking at very hard hitters and KO throwers) then I think it's the most intuitive pick. Speed perhaps if the opponent is death percents themselves, as a ground speed advantage/improvement doesn't compare so poorly to survivability under that circumstance. The case remains "possibly dying from the next hit vs. making it as hard as possible for the opponent to finish our stock." Without resorting to camping, that is. If that were apart of the idea then I think it'd still be debatable which is better for tanking.

 

[Berserker.]

I lost count but I've been messing around with a pure momentum-based playstyle. I've only pulled out smash art when I'm at a relatively safe percentage while my opponent is at KO percentage. Otherwise, I'd use speed to KO since jump art's defense debuff can cost me the lead. I only have one issue with this playstyle and it's the damage output. Although the risk:reward ratio feels like 10:90 (more reward), the reward isn't that much. The only way you can make the most out of this playstyle is if you're good at combo'ing or stringing with jump art and speed art. Luckily, these two arts have a bunch of combos which rack up decent amount of damage. Knowing your strings and combos are really important in racking up damage. Other than that? This playstyle is really safe and reliable. It's also surprisingly rewarding when you land those strings

Also, I think I'm final on saying that "Buster to Smash" is useful if you outplay your opponent hard. You can end matches really quickly with this playstyle but I don't recommend it since it's highly dependent on skill level gap, match up and match up experience.

Buster centric is mixed for me. It's not really useful against campers. You need the mobility to keep up and stay on your opponent, but buster doesn't offer mobility at all. Now I think about it, I don't think it's that useful. Idk. I probably need to play around with it more but I don't have a high opinion on this.

All-around is great for the reasons said by @ Ultinarok

 

[erico9001]

I lost count but I've been messing around with a pure momentum-based playstyle. I've only pulled out smash art when I'm at a relatively safe percentage while my opponent is at KO percentage. Otherwise, I'd use speed to KO since jump art's defense debuff can cost me the lead. I only have one issue with this playstyle and it's the damage output. Although the risk:reward ratio feels like 10:90 (more reward), the reward isn't that much. The only way you can make the most out of this playstyle is if you're good at combo'ing or stringing with jump art and speed art. Luckily, these two arts have a bunch of combos which rack up decent amount of damage. Knowing your strings and combos are really important in racking up damage. Other than that? This playstyle is really safe and reliable. It's also surprisingly rewarding when you land those strings

Also, I think I'm final on saying that "Buster to Smash" is useful if you outplay your opponent hard. You can end matches really quickly with this playstyle but I don't recommend it since it's highly dependent on skill level gap, match up and match up experience.

Buster centric is mixed for me. It's not really useful against campers. You need the mobility to keep up and stay on your opponent, but buster doesn't offer mobility at all. Now I think about it, I don't think it's that useful. Idk. I probably need to play around with it more but I don't have a high opinion on this.

All-around is great for the reasons said by @ Ultinarok

Hmm...

Well I do favor Buster. Whether I'm ahead or behind, Buster is a good art for me to be in. If I start in Buster and the opponent is having an easy time zoning me, then I quickly switch to Jump or Speed.

When I get to high percents and am versus a good opponent, I play it very safe with Shield. Shield can still kill, just like Speed, and it prevents me from dying.

Speed... well I do like Speed. Usually, I would rather be in Speed than Vanilla, so Speed can act as a filler while I wait for Buster. It's a good option for kills, too.

I use Smash art if it won't put me in kill range, but it puts the opponent in kill range.

Jump art, for me, is generally for me to be unpredictable and mix-up. If the opponent is having an easy time reading and/or hitting me, Jump is what I switch to. Either that, or edgeguards.

This all varies based on the situation, of course. I'm not shield arting against Mega Man, and I'm not Monado Jumping on Battlefield other than edgeguards.

 

[Nammy12]

I have some questions about using arts with shields.
Since shields have health, do you take more shield damage when you are in Jump or Buster mode because you would take more damage?

Also, does anyone know how much extra shield health Shield mode gives?

 

[Berserker.]

do you take more shield damage when you are in Jump or Buster mode because you would take more damage?

I'm sure that you don't take more shield damage in either of the 2 arts.

 

[Starfall11]

Hey all, I got away from the Shulk forums for a while since I was focusing more on melee and PM.

But I'm back, and practicing my Shulk for Summer Jam. Anyways, I use speed and jump for mobility most of the time. I find speed to be most useful for combos and general pressure early into the game. When it runs out, I'll go Jump or Buster. Buster is especially good at high percents when you have a stock lead. Just to rack up some damage before dying. Smash is only good when you're low percent and your opponent is high percent.

Try not to rely on smash too much, since it makes it obvious you're going for the kill. Otherwise, just use your normals and range with Smash. That's my short rundown. I'll have more info as I gain more experience. Also, pivot Fsmash can really catch people off guard, especially in speed.

 

[Masonomace]

I have some questions about using arts with shields.
Since shields have health, do you take more shield damage when you are in Jump or Buster mode because you would take more damage?

Also, does anyone know how much extra shield health Shield mode gives?

Y u no ask in Q&A Thread
Like @ Berserker. mentioned, they don't increase the shield damage you'd take. I went ahead & tested this in an extreme manner that would definitely prove if the Arts' decreased Defense would affect shield health: Hyper Arts. Having a Shulk without Hyper Arts shelding a hit by Hyper Buster Shulk, & then tested Hyper Jump Shulk shielding the same hit by the Hyper Buster Shulk. The shield damage was the same.

I don't know about Shield Shulk's shield health amount, but I want to figure it out

 

[Starfall11]

Hey guys, is there any new Shulk tech I should know about? I've been away for a few months, and want to improve my Shulk before the next tourney.

I'm familiar with

1. Monado Art Cancelling
2. The ability to change arts in hitstun (Like Shield to Jump offstage)
3. Pivot Fsmash and Pivot Usmash
4. Perfect Pivots
5. Pivot grabs

Is there anything else I'm missing or new tech that has come out in the past couple months since the 3DS version? I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could neatly summarize it into one post or point me in the right direction of an analysis.

 

[Berserker.]

Hey guys, is there any new Shulk tech I should know about? I've been away for a few months, and want to improve my Shulk before the next tourney.

I'm familiar with

1. Monado Art Cancelling
2. The ability to change arts in hitstun (Like Shield to Jump offstage)
3. Pivot Fsmash and Pivot Usmash
4. Perfect Pivots
5. Pivot grabs

Is there anything else I'm missing or new tech that has come out in the past couple months since the 3DS version? I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could neatly summarize it into one post or point me in the right direction of an analysis.

http://smashboards.com/threads/i-ho...s-power-one-day-shulk-ats-tech-thread.393113/

 

[Starfall11]

Thank you! I found the combo thread, and all of the guides, etc. I'm ready to increase my skill again!

 

[erico9001]

Hey guys, is there any new Shulk tech I should know about? I've been away for a few months, and want to improve my Shulk before the next tourney.

I'm familiar with

1. Monado Art Cancelling
2. The ability to change arts in hitstun (Like Shield to Jump offstage)
3. Pivot Fsmash and Pivot Usmash
4. Perfect Pivots
5. Pivot grabs

Is there anything else I'm missing or new tech that has come out in the past couple months since the 3DS version? I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could neatly summarize it into one post or point me in the right direction of an analysis.

Are customs legal at Summer Jam? Also, I recommend you join the Shulk skype group if you haven't already!

 

[Champ Gold]

Quick question, which of the Shulk's stances you find more useless than the others.

I feel like Jump is probably the least use stance since unless you're playing in Gaur Plains or stages like those you wouldn't use it right even for extra recovery purposes

 

[Berserker.]

Quick question, which of the Shulk's stances you find more useless than the others.

I feel like Jump is probably the least use stance since unless you're playing in Gaur Plains or stages like those you wouldn't use it right even for extra recovery purposes

Gaur plains (standard) is usually banned, and jump is actually extremely useful. You can use it to go off-stage for an edgeguarding attempt. It's also the most combo-oriented art and you can land some early KO's with one n-air > f-air > f-air. For me, shield art is probably the most useless art only because it feels like you can't do much while you're using the art

 

[Zatchiel]

Quick question, which of the Shulk's stances you find more useless than the others.

Considering how "useless" is absolute, and none of Shulk's arts can be described as useless, I think the question you're asking is "which of Shulk's stances is the least useful."

In my opinion it narrows down to Shield or Smash; my opinion is slightly in favor of Shield. I'll explain why.

Shield's main problem is its lessened mobility and worsened recovery, which can be pretty tough to cope with depending on the situation. But it gives us increased shield health to work with, makes us far less susceptible to otherwise true low/mid percent combos, and we take less damage. Our aggressive potential is worse, yes, but keep in mind that Shield is our only explicitly defined "defensive" art. So that fact stands to reason.

Smash art's biggest (and only real) problem is that it makes us lighter. A lot lighter. The lessened damage output isn't really a problem because common sense would tell anyone that it means the art isn't for dealing damage. Now, one of the big things Smash does for us is increase our kill potential. Without it, our kill potential is average. Arguably above average with Jump because of how nutty we can get with our juggles and edgeguards. But I don't want that to distract from my point: average is okay. Shulk doesn't need Smash in order to kill.

In roughly three-fourths of our matchups, depending on the stage, the Smash art is just a liberty more than a necessity for killing the opponent below average kill percents. Smash can net us relatively early kills, but so can Jump and perhaps Speed.

Regardless, when I'm arguing usefulness I don't mean to fully discredit the art. All of our arts are incredibly useful.

I feel like Jump is probably the least use stance since unless you're playing in Gaur Plains or stages like those you wouldn't use it right even for extra recovery purposes

Jump is our best art by far. I don't believe for a second that it's the least used. I think most Shulks use Speed the most and Shield the least. As the meta evolves I believe Jump will eventually become the most popular art.

 

[Peppa]

I agree, jump is one of our better arts.
Some of the better Shulk mains like 9B even prefer it!
I'm more and more liking jump as people figure out how to abuse Shulk's slow frame data and camping flat stages plus the regular damage output.
Personally I hate Smash the most if I try to fish too hard in it I always get destroyed so at most I use it as a get up read then cancel it.

 

[SGJet]

What are we thinking about the patch thus far guys? MALLC is still in, which is great.
EDIT: Some other random stuff I've found. Shield feels faster, buster damage nerfed. Idk someone correct me might be crazy.
EDIT 2: Okay so Berserker corrected me and I am confirmed placeboing. lol

 

[Masonomace]

So... Just for the kicks, I've noticed that you can play Shulk in a LOT of ways. Some of them work. Some of them are iffy. It really depends on your tastes and skill levels

Buster centric playstyle

This playstyle relies on purely using buster to deal damage. Jump and speed are only means of going into the right position or getting into a positional advantage. Really, the objective here is to actually rely on buster once you're at range. You'll be racking up damage with buster. Speed and jump are only used to traverse to wherever you need to go. Shield is for survival or stock tanking. Smash is for KO'ing.

Momentum based playstyle

Your mostly using speed and jump art in tandem. Buster art takes a back seat and is only pulled out to either gain the lead or to mount a come back. You'll rely on your sheer mobility, off-stage edgeguarding, and gimping abilities with speed or jump. You're probably going to use jump to KO most of the time. How? Gimping (or rage f-air). Speed will be your main means of racking up damage

All around playstyle

You use any art depending on the match up. Or depending on what you feel like using. You could start with speed/buster but at mid percentages, you either go for buster/speed/jump. Each art has its perks at each range of percentage. At higher percentages, your likely going to go for jump or smash. There isn't much to say about this. You're not really rendering any art as unimportant unless you want to talk about shield here

Buster>Smash playstyle

THIS STYLE.... It works wonderfully if the match up favors Shulk or if you're really sure that you can outplay your opponent. Could also work if you're amazing with buster spacing. This style can only be pulled off efficiently if you maximize buster usage which is honestly quite difficult.

Defensive Lead playstyle (I'm late on this reply)

I find this kind of playstyle effective for the portions of the match you have an advantage over your opponent & have little trouble of keeping them out with your range. Transitioning from or to Jump & Shield is a good way of extending your stock's longevity since you normally won't die as Shield Shulk & you're rarely edge-guarded to an extreme when cycling to the Jump Art early during hit-stun to play as Jump Shulk. Speed Shulk can make an appearance here as well to keep the stage control with your movement & maintain a better lead if you choose to be patient with your lead, but mostly using Jump & Shield is this playstyle's forte to survive the longest.

Reyn: Stock Tanking? This'll be a breeze!
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EDIT: I did forgot to mention this but I remember now. Due to the latest patch, the / R-stick set to as Smash no longer allows us to use tilts even if you hold the down crouching to try doing DTilt. This also means that we can't hold items & crouch first to do a FTilt either. However, we can still input tilts freely with the if set to Attack & we can still hold an item & use FTilt. Thoughts?

 

[Berserker.]

Almost convinced that jump is our best art. My only issue with jump art is that he can't really get anything off his throws and grabbing is one of his most important mix up options with jump. You can however take advantage of the opponent's position and set up for a f-air... which can easily be followed up with either air slash or another f-air. Anyway, a lot of things make jump art fantastic on and off stage. It has a lot of combos, combos that can easily take stocks if done off-stage. It's Shulk's go-to art when he's at a disadvantage (whether he needs to recover, or escape from more juggles). Lastly, the mobility upgrade allows us to get around that horrendous defense nerf with ease. As long as you know how to switch gears between playing offensively and defensively with the art on-stage, you're good. If you want to play safe with jump though, you can always relegate it for off-stage purposes.

Getting KO's at mid percent with jump art, love it when I feel my opponent expression of shock and confusion

 

[Zatchiel]

My only issue with jump art is that he can't really get anything off his throws and grabbing is one of his most important mix up options with jump.

Yes he can. With any of your throws in this art you're either going to be pursuing the opponent from the ground (best with u-throw unless you expect them to jump away) or chasing them in the air.

He can get ridiculous mileage off of any of his throws in Jump. I mean that literally. Regardless of where you choose to throw them after getting the grab you're practically guaranteed a follow up because of your mobility. F-throw is really good in this art because it deals the damage of b-throw while keeping them closer to you. I've come to prefer it over b-throw in most cases.

Here's an example from a tournament a few weeks ago:

Spoiler

When you get a grab, you throw (pummels optional of course) and give the opponent no room to breathe once you do. That's the beauty of this art. Your range and granted aerial prowess go hand-in-hand. You don't always have to jump in order to chase them though, this is all just apart of strategy.

I covered how amazing MALLC is with this art a few pages ago, so I won't echo anything about that unless someone has questions.

Edit: Spoilered gif for courtesy. It's jarring as **** while trying to read.

 

[Berserker.]

The new patch didn't touch Shulk so our metagame hasn't been really messed with. Air vision is still unreliable though :|

 

[Masonomace]

*EDITED*

Spoiler: Don't worry about it

Here's my results. I created a flat & straight 20-block long Custom stage with the Volcano Background for its black & white tile square floor for measurements. I used Wii Fit Trainer for a stationary dummy, including the Sandbag for a second opinion.

Horizontal

1. Vision counter
2. Back Slash
3. Dash attack (tried my best inputting it from the starting point ASAP)
4. F-smash 2nd hit angled upward
5. Air Slash 2nd hit (hard testing this)
6. B-air from behind (very, very tip)
7. Full Jab combo
8. F-smash 2nd hit without angling
9. F-smash 2nd hit angled downward
10. Forwarded Vision counter
11. D-smash 3rd hit from the front (it's technically the 5th overall D-smash hit)
12. Air Slash grounded 1st hit
13. D-tilt
14. F-smash 1st hit angled upward
15. F-air from the front
16. F-smash 1st hit without angling
17. F-tilt
18. F-smash 1st hit angled downward
19. D-smash 2nd hit from the back (it's technically the 4th overall D-smash hit)
20. D-smash 1st hit from the back (it's technically the 2nd overall D-smash hit)
21. D-smash 1st hit from the front
22. D-smash 2nd hit from the front (it's technically the 3rd overall D-smash hit)
23. Jab-1 > Jab-2
24. N-air from the front
25. Jab-1
26. U-tilt
27. N-air from behind
28. U-smash front-facing hit
29. B-air front-facing hit
30. Standing Grab
31. U-smash back-facing hit
32. D-air
33. U-air

As far as Stationary movement goes, F-smash, B-air, & the 2nd hit of Air Slash are Shulk's top contending moves, although there are other good ones too. Remember that you can hold towards a direction while using Air Slash in midst of delaying the 1st slash so that your 2nd Air Slash hit can horizontally travel farther than rapidly pressing B or A twice to get a little bit of height.

The spoiler in that above quote is old news. Don't worry about it, but now worry about the new & improved MHR. @ erico9001 Kudos to you for inspiring me to remake / remaster the Horizontal Ranges of Shulk's move-set. This even includes the Custom Specials & all that good stuff.

Maximum Horizontal Range​

Note: All of Shulk's moves are listed from farthest to shortest. I used a custom stage I created to help assist with this, & used the Crate item to better determine the results. Not even Wii Fit Trainer was the greatest example to use the first time for this.

Note: I only measured the range of Shulk's moves by the farthest they could reach aka the Beam aka the Sourspot in most cases (Exceptions like NAir are loved & appreciated, because NAir, you break the B & B "rule"<3. I also did not test move techniques like Jump Canceled Vision).

1. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Shulk with any Art excluding all 3 Speed Arts
2. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Speed Shulk / DSpeed Shulk / HSpeed Shulk
3. Dash Vision counterattack (This basically looks like a disjointed Tipper hit-box, but it's the sourspot)
4. Advancing Air Slash 2nd hit
5. Power Vision counterattack
6. Vision counterattack
7. Back Slash landing Tipper hit
8. Instant Dash Attack as Speed Shulk
9. Instant Dash attack as Vanilla Shulk / Jump Shulk / Buster Shulk / Smash Shulk
10. Instant Dash Attack as Shield Shulk
11. Back Slash Leap landing Tipper hit
12. Forwarded Dash Vision counterattack
13. Air Slash 2nd hit
14. FSmash 2nd hit without angling
15. Full Jab Combo (Rapidly tapping A)
16. FSmash 2nd hit angled downward & upward
17. BAir from behind
18. Forwarded Vision counterattack
19. Forwarded Power Vision counterattack
20. FThrow collateral 3% hit
21. Air Slash grounded 1st hit AND Advancing Air Slash grounded 1st hit
22. DSmash 3rd hit from the front (It's actually the 5th hit of DSmash)
23. DTilt
24. FSmash 1st hit angled upward
25. FAir
26. FSmash 1st hit without angling
27. FTilt
28. FSmash 1st hit angled downward
29. DSmash 2nd hit from the back (it's actually the 4th hit of DSmash)
30. DSmash 1st hit from the back (it's actually the 2nd hit of DSmash)
31. DSmash 1st hit from the front
32. DSmash 2nd hit from the front (it's actually the 3rd hit of DSmash)
33. Mighty Air Slash 2nd hit
34. Jab-1 > Jab-2
35. Ledge Attack from the ledge
36. NAir from the front
37. BThrow collateral 3% hit from behind
    
38. Mighty Air Slash grounded 1st hit
39. Jab-1
40. NAir from behind
41. UTilt
42. USmash Front Ground-Hitting knock-up
43. BAir front-facing hit
44. Standing Grab
45. USmash Back Ground-Hitting knock-up
46. DAir
47. UAir

 

[Berserker.]

Some comments about jump art, MALLC, and Shulk's tilts and aerials

1) Spacing with f-tilt seems to be an issue with everyone. The best thing to do to alleviate this issue is to treat its frontal range like N-air's frontal range. It will still be safe if you treat it that way. Once you learn how to get used to the range, you'll love its damage output and its utility in buster, smash, and speed (buster f-tilt is nuts in damage output, smash f-tilt kills, speed pivot f-tilts are godlike, etc.) Another way to deal with this is to use f-tilt by perfect pivoting with it.

2) Despite the HUGE coverage f-air has, the horizontal range is shorter than d-tilt's. I've mis-spaced f-air at some points because I overestimate its range. Please take note of this when spacing your opponents. Also while we're at it, d-tilt is amazing as always. Frame 10, long horizontal range, decent damage output (becomes great with buster activated), and it starts combos in jump or speed art.

3) U-tilt's hitbox duration is nuts. I was using smash art so I could finish off Samus with u-tilt. I u-tilt'd then she retaliated by air dodging. She didn't fast fall for whatever reason. She was still caught by u-tilt. I already talked about u-tilt's weird hitbox duration pages ago but I'm just throwing it out here again.

4) RAR B-air is amazing for punishment. Especially in speed. They make a mistake? They think they can throw hitboxes from a far for free? RAR B-air in speed. You need to retreat? You can go for SH retreating n-airs but B-air works too and it has a chance of catching them off-guard due to b-air's insane horizontal reach.

5) MALLC is great. We've found some amazing applications with it (I've dodged Mac's slip counter using it lol) BUT you should always mix MALLC up with actual aerial activations to avoid getting predictable. Excessive use of the tech may cost you a lot. Like, you need jump art to recover but you've used it up because of MALLC. You need shield? Whelp, it was used to cancel your landing lag. Make sure you know how to mash B fast and accurately so that you can actually use the art which YOU really want instead of just going to jump, speed, or shield because it's easy to MALLC with.

6) Jump art is the best. No note added

 

[erico9001]

Monado Speed: Walking+U-tilt for juggles

In the past, I've found that Monado Speed's walk speed is faster than Vanilla's run speed. Also, I've found that Monado Jump's horizontal air speed is about the same as Vanilla's run speed. Well, I've recently learned that Monado Jump is the fastest non-customs air speed (only behind lightweight Paulutena and Shulk's custom monado arts).

The logic follows that Monado Speed's walk speed is faster than every character's horizontal air speed. While walking, Monado Speed can keep up with all falling opponents. This is great, because then there is Shulk's Up Tilt. Due to its reach and long-lasting hitbox, it's great for juggling. It also has the property of not immediately stopping Shulk when it is used, so he slides while using it from a walk. This makes for a useful strategy.

> Simply walk below the opponent while tracking his movement, and repeatedly hit him with Up Tilt when he comes within range. The strategy is effective, because Up-tilt's range usually is unchallengeable. If they air dodge, either another Up Tilt will be ready by the time their air dodge is over, or they will hit the ground mid air dodge and suffer landing lag.

It has limitations, as opponents with slower fall speeds could possibly air dodge while within range of the move and still be able to act before they suffer air dodge landing lag. For such characters, it should be worthwhile to read the air dodge, and then delay the Up Tilt to hit when the air dodge is over. Characters with multiple jumps could also be troublesome. With multiple jumps, they can immediately change direction, and if they do so while we use the U-tilt, we may not be able to get to them before they land. However, this will still work on the majority of the cast.

 

[gridatttack]

.Momentum based playstyle

Your mostly using speed and jump art in tandem. Buster art takes a back seat and is only pulled out to either gain the lead or to mount a come back. You'll rely on your sheer mobility, off-stage edgeguarding, and gimping abilities with speed or jump. You're probably going to use jump to KO most of the time. How? Gimping (or rage f-air). Speed will be your main means of racking up damage

Nice list. Seems like I ended up now with this play style.

However, I find it a bit predictable for my part if this is only what I use.

I need to get better at using buster, as im mostly not using it because im afraid I might get more damage easier (same for smash art)

However, that buster to smash art sounds nice.

The all around playstyle seems to be the most neutral. I wonder, is there a thread that collects information on what arts to use against specific charcater match-up?

Oh, and yeah. I think shield is a bit useless. I haven't used it in like, forever.

 

[kenniky]

Quick question, which of the Shulk's stances you find more useless than the others.

Honestly imo Speed > Buster = Jump > Shield > Smash

Speed has little to no drawback as Shulk's damage output was buffed in 1.0.4, when it was already fairly decent before. Speed adds a whole load of, well, speed onto Shulk's movement and can be helpful for punishing or spacing correctly, by going back or forward depending on your position in relation to the other player

Buster has huge reward and leads combos nicely because of decreased knockback, but the damage taken increase is kind of hard to deal with if your opponent gets in.

Jump is good for recovery, edge guarding, and hype offstage kills but imo the damage taken increase really sucks if you get hit

Shield is useful if your opponent isn't patient (like most of my friends). Additionally it's useful for getting out of combos and such

Smash is good but imo relies too heavily on good reads, with huge risk added because if they get off any sort of good move on you you're basically toast