This is pissing me off!

[Ademisk]

We are over it. We got over it 2 years ago when he'd been Bottom Tier in Melee for freaking ever. Well, I'm over it at least, I don't know about everyone else.

 

[3Years]

i can care less but its funny how he took the time 2 come here n talk trash haha

 

[Ademisk]

Other players always do that. I dunno why.

 

[3Years]

ill place at a so cal tourney and get ness up there ^o^

 

[Smashbros_7]

lol, he thinks lucas's tremble in fear of grabs...

He;s a *******.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Im too young. Im 15
Im too young for the jacuzzi also
7 months lifeguard... 7 months. Cant you just let me in?

your 15?

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

so u come 2 the ness character discussion boards go on the thread that says "This is pissing me off" 2 say "Ness is not very good.Get over it"

*palm 2 face* epic fail

LAWL

That's like a Bowser player saying Bowser is good. He's not good. Just because you like him doesn't make him good. I like Ness a lot, but I still know he deserves to be low tier (in Melee. He's a bit better in Brawl).

 

[Earthbound360]

^^^
lol at IWontGetOverTheDam

And yes, Im 15. I'll still try going to tournies. But Im just saying I KNOW I will be able to go more when Im 16 since I can just drive myself there.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Sick. See you there.

 

[3Years]

That's like a Bowser player saying Bowser is good. He's not good. Just because you like him doesn't make him good. I like Ness a lot, but I still know he deserves to be low tier (in Melee. He's a bit better in Brawl).

haha just stop your embarrassing yourself

 

[Cazcom]

That's like a Bowser player saying Bowser is good. He's not good. Just because you like him doesn't make him good. I like Ness a lot, but I still know he deserves to be low tier (in Melee. He's a bit better in Brawl).

I think the problem with ness is the time it takes to master him. He's highly punishable, but not in the classic meaning. Ness is highly self-punishable. If you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing with ness, he becomes low tier. But put him in the hands of someone who actually can utilize him correctly, and you have something to be feared.

From what I can gather, tier is based off of match-ups against other high tier characters, as well as tourney placings.

Not that we should be judged on one matchup alone, but I just want to point out that ness is the anti-snake. I don't think I've lost at a tourney to a snake yet...


As far as placings go, that's our fault for not getting enough people out there. Ademisk, are you going to be at the next tourney in Bellevue? I know you're hosting, but you weren't at the last one.

And NoNNP needs to get to a tourney too... no johns.

 

[Masky]

How is Ness an anti Snake?

 

[Ademisk]

You obviously haven't played Kamaji.

 

[Cazcom]

I haven't played Kamaji, but I'd be willing to Money Match him.

both yo-yo & pkf beat snakes slide smash.
pkf takes out his Dsmash mine.
you can knock back grenades/missles w/ bat
ness can easily rack up damage when snake uses upB
snake is the easiest person for ness to gimp.

I actually can't think of a reason ness should lose to snake.

 

[Masky]

So grenades don't explode when you hit them with the bat? And how does reflecting the missile work? It just reflects the explosion or what?

 

[Cazcom]

Grenades don't explode when you hit them with the bat, as far as I know. I know that they don't go very far away from you unless you hit them while they're first in the air or moving quickly, but it does slide you out of blast radius.

And no... the bat, actually reflects the missle in the same way fox's reflector reflects PKT. It doesn't work if snake has cancelled his control of the missle (i.e the missle is dropped off above you). But that is really easy to dodge when you're on land.

 

[Masky]

Okay, I did some testing and you're mostly right. Grenades and nikitas are reflected by the bat if they hit the "reflecting" hitbox and not the regular attack hitbox. You kind of have to try it out for yourself to understand where each of these are without having actual pictures of the hitboxes like we did in Melee, but basically the reflect hitbox extends farther than both how big the bat physically is and how big the regular hitbox is. Also, the regular hitbox doesn't go back to Ness's body as far as the reflecting hitbox does (which lets you reflect things if they are close to you without blowing them up). The easiest way seemed to be to try to use the last part of the bat animation and hit with the tip.

Overall, I don't think that reflecting grenades would be more useful than simply picking them up or catching them and throwing them back, since the bat takes much longer and doesn't send them far. Reflecting the nikita is very useful though, because it keeps it along its flipped trajectory exactly (though Snake does get out of his animation as if he had canceled the attack). The nikita also has such a slow start-up time (when it's first accelerating) that unless if you're being pressured by Snake's other projectiles/explosives you should be able to reflect it. Do Snake players even use the nikita a lot besides for edgeguarding though?

Also, I noticed that PK Thunder was an amazing move for repelling grenades. If they hit the head, PK Thunder stops and the grenade loses all horizontal momentum and simply drops to the floor. If they hit the tail, they instantly explode (and PK Thunder keeps going). Tailwhipping grenades would seem to be pretty useful...

 

[Cazcom]

PKT is good for grenades, but it leaves you punishable. You can tail-whip the grenades that some snakes throw off the edge when they're trying to get back.

And snakes don't usually use it for anything but edge-guarding, but it's just good to know.

I still don't see any reason that ness should lose to snake....

 

[thesage]

I still don't see any reason that ness should lose to snake....

LOL... um... wow. His u-tilt maybe? It outprioritizes and outranges anything you can do. Projectiles don't work against him. The only problem Ness doesn't have in this matchup that most characters do have is that Snake doesn't live to like 200 percent.

 

[marcus0103]

Hopefully I can go to a local tourney on the 14th to get people looking at Ness seriously. I'm not expecting to win though. =\

 

[Crystanium]

lol Ness is about a thousand times better than he was in Melee. There's really nothing to complain about. If fewer people play him then it means you have an advantage because fewer people know how to play against him.

That's not entirely true. You might have the advantage, but if there is no one who plays as Ness, let alone fights against Ness players, it means that Ness cannot progress. So, while all the other characters who are top-tier are advancing, Ness will be sitting in the past.

Besides, you don't have to fight Ness in order to know how he plays. That's why there is a Ness forum, Simna, MinD, and other Ness players. My brother mains Ness. I brawl with him sometimes and do well against him. I progressed with Samus, considering that when Brawl came out, I couldn't defeat my brother with Samus.

I like Ness, though. For some unusual reason, I find it easier to spot-dodge with him.

There's nothing sweeter than destroying someone with a lower tier character.

Ain't that the truth? Samus seems to have become a low-tier character, but I recall Gum telling everyone at the Samus forum that when he was at a tourney, someone asked him, "Who do you main?" he replied, "Samus." The fellow then said, "Doesn't she suck?" and Gum said, "Yes." Then Gum told us all that after that, he left and whooped on Marths and Meta Knights.

 

[Ademisk]

Hah, Smashboards is silly. Ness being good against Snake.

No Snake uses Nikita dead on, so many characters can reflect it, it's just dumb.

Snake will be better than using grenades than you are at reflecting them, so while you're trying to get away from them, he'll be getting into a better position to attack you from.

Boost Smash.


Yes the Utilt.

His aerials are mostly better than Ness's. But it's mostly the Boost Smashing.

Boost Smashing.

Those mines are pretty good, PK Fire doesn't kill C4, and PK Firing a proximity mine just leave you open to attack.



I will say one thing. Fair into DjDair will kill Snake offstage if he jumps or uses his up-B after the fair. 100% of the time.

 

[Cazcom]

Boost smash is useless against ness. There's no reason a ness should ever get boost smashed by snake.

The thing I've learned to do against snake is something ness players might cry about when they hear it. Stay on the ground...

As Ademisk has pointed out, almost every one of snakes Areials beat out ness, but I am thouroughly convinced that ness can out play snake on the ground, especially given the fact that "ground-snakes" over-use mines, grenades and boost smashing.

Mines are easy to avoid. You don't really have to take them out. The pkf example was just an example that we can safely destroy them. Or sometime I use pkf/pkt to hit snake C4 on the edge of the map as he recovers. (works great for the snake who put the c4 on the platform on Smashville).

Grenades should not present a problem for any good player. Easily grabbed, and thrown back. The "good snakes that hold onto them and throw them at the last second can be easily delt with by timing the tail of your pkt to make a U-turn in front of snake, thus causing the grenades to blow up.

And the boost smashing problem is personally my favorite. Snakes that boost smash, slide directly into the middle of a pkf, making it near impossible to DI or sheild b4 a bat comes. Also, if you can't get the pkf off in time, the UpSmash beats it too.

Learning to use ness's "weak ground game" against snake makes an easy victory. Don't fool around in the air, unless you're edge guarding.

As Ademisk pointed out as well, we can edge guard snake very easily.

 

[thesage]

Another reason I like the up-smash. The snake matchup. It helps soooo frikken much in that.

 

[JSTN!]

Boost smash is useless against ness. There's no reason a ness should ever get boost smashed by snake.

The thing I've learned to do against snake is something ness players might cry about when they hear it. Stay on the ground...

As Ademisk has pointed out, almost every one of snakes Areials beat out ness, but I am thouroughly convinced that ness can out play snake on the ground, especially given the fact that "ground-snakes" over-use mines, grenades and boost smashing.

Mines are easy to avoid. You don't really have to take them out. The pkf example was just an example that we can safely destroy them. Or sometime I use pkf/pkt to hit snake C4 on the edge of the map as he recovers. (works great for the snake who put the c4 on the platform on Smashville).

Grenades should not present a problem for any good player. Easily grabbed, and thrown back. The "good snakes that hold onto them and throw them at the last second can be easily delt with by timing the tail of your pkt to make a U-turn in front of snake, thus causing the grenades to blow up.

And the boost smashing problem is personally my favorite. Snakes that boost smash, slide directly into the middle of a pkf, making it near impossible to DI or sheild b4 a bat comes. Also, if you can't get the pkf off in time, the UpSmash beats it too.

Learning to use ness's "weak ground game" against snake makes an easy victory. Don't fool around in the air, unless you're edge guarding.

As Ademisk pointed out as well, we can edge guard snake very easily.

I agree! the best way to beat snake is staying on the ground.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Blah, the Ness boards are so depressing these days...

For starters, if you ignore the chain grab, Ness does not suck and anyone who's saying so is horribly deluded.

He has fantastic abilities all around, a great air game, many great KO options and a wonderful defensive/offensive game thanks to the yo yos and PK thunder. Oh, and he can KO at 60% with a move that's not even all that slow to start.

With the chain grab factoring though, yes, he might be low tier. But it's a ARTIFICIAL low tier. It wasn't intended to be that way. Ness is a mid to high tier character who has had handcuffs placed on him. Without the handcuffs, he's a very strong competitor. With them, it has to be taken into consideration that he is vulnerable to a lot of cheap tricks from other characters.

Having said that, people should't be deterred from playin Ness, simply because Lucas isn't effected by many of the same problems that stem from this chain grab. (Rather than handcuffs, Lucas has his hands tied with a hankie)

You shouldn't be afraid to use Ness in tourneys as long as you have a strong secondary to back yourself up against the likes of Marth and Pokemon Trainer.

SILLY NESS PLAYERS. GO TO TOURNEYS AND ROCK.

 

[Cazcom]

Nessbounder, do you go to tourneys?

Because I have yet to be chaingrabbed at a tourney for more than like 15% damage.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I would go to tourneys if there were actually a smash community where I live. -_-

I'm pretty confident I'm a good player, but I just never have had the chance to really attend a tourney properly.

oh well, some day someday.

 

[Cazcom]

Well let me just say, most tourney goers aren't jerks (as far as I've seen), and won't try to chain grab constantly. It'd be like every ice climber player trying to CG for every match. They don't really attempt it unless it's there.

And honestly, not that hard to get out of...

 

[3Years]

^^^^^ have u been cg by a D3 its impossible 2 get out of it as long as he doesn't screw up and have u been 2 a so cal tourney??? people will play cheap 2 win whether its mk's neutral B, D3 cg, etc they do wutever it takes 2 win so tellin them that other players wont play cheap is givin them wrong info

guys plz make sure wen u give out information its correct whether its about gameplay, tourney rules, tourney results, other players etc cuz these people come on smashboards 4 help 2 improve there gameplay

ex: some1 said u can hit back snakes gernades and its useful
yeah u can the gernades back but that leaves u wide open for an attack so some player who reads that is gunna take this false info 2 a tourney and highten there chances of losing

plz make sure u give out correct information ^_^

 

[thesage]

^^^^^ have u been cg by a D3 its impossible 2 get out of it as long as he doesn't screw up and have u been 2 a so cal tourney people will play cheap 2 win whether its mk's neutral B, D3 cg, etc they do wutever it takes 2 win so tellin them that other players wont play cheap is givin them wrong info

guys plz make sure wen u give out information its correct whether its about gameplay, tourney rules, tourney results, other players etc cuz these people come on smashboards 4 help 2 improve there gameplay

ex: some1 said u can hit back snakes gernades and its useful
yeah u can the gernades back but that leaves u wide open for an attack so some player who reads that is gunna take this false info 2 a tourney and highten there chances of losing

plz make sure u give out correct information ^_^

I couldn't understand that at all. Also, hitting snake's grenades back at him is completely useless as whenever he sheilds, the grenade will automatically drop to the floor.

 

[3Years]

wut didn't u understand maybe i can clear things up 4 u


and wut i was sayin about snakes gernades is that its useless

 

[PKSkyler]

i have already decided to drop ike pretty much and be ness the next tournament i attend (next saturday)

 

[3Years]

do work and get ness up there ^o^

 

[Cazcom]

^^^^^ have u been cg by a D3 its impossible 2 get out of it as long as he doesn't screw up and have u been 2 a so cal tourney??? people will play cheap 2 win whether its mk's neutral B, D3 cg, etc they do wutever it takes 2 win so tellin them that other players wont play cheap is givin them wrong info

guys plz make sure wen u give out information its correct whether its about gameplay, tourney rules, tourney results, other players etc cuz these people come on smashboards 4 help 2 improve there gameplay

ex: some1 said u can hit back snakes gernades and its useful
yeah u can the gernades back but that leaves u wide open for an attack so some player who reads that is gunna take this false info 2 a tourney and highten there chances of losing

plz make sure u give out correct information ^_^

D3 cg is different. It's not an infinite. No I haven't been to a so cal tourney. I'm up in washington, and haven't made it to cali yet.

People play cheap, true. But not all people. Anyways, even if they do, it's not hard to avoid. A good player shouldn't get infinited. That's that.

I give out accurate information. I said that you could hit snakes grenades, back, but I did state that it wasn't very useful (if I recall). It's much easier to catch them, I was just pointing out somethings we can do, as ness.

 

[PKSkyler]

do work and get ness up there ^o^

hey it will be a doubles first then singles and in doubles i hope to bring the pain with my ness and my cousin`s G&W (the bucket should do some damage combined with my projectiles!)

 

[Proverbs]

Ness is great right now. Who cares if people think Ness is horrible? The more who underestimate him the better. We want the element of surprise. Think about Melee--sure Ness was a lot worse in Melee than he was in Brawl, but I still don't believe he's bottom tier. His comboing ability is just too good for that.

So people underestimated Ness and Simna came out and blew everyone's mind. Do the same. I don't care about changing people's minds about Ness. Lulling your opponent into a false sense of security is much better.

 

[PKSkyler]

Ness is great right now. Who cares if people think Ness is horrible? The more who underestimate him the better. We want the element of surprise. Think about Melee--sure Ness was a lot worse in Melee than he was in Brawl, but I still don't believe he's bottom tier. His comboing ability is just too good for that.

So people underestimated Ness and Simna came out and blew everyone's mind. Do the same. I don't care about changing people's minds about Ness. Lulling your opponent into a false sense of security is much better.

T_T this thread brings a tear to my eye....I have to go practice and just own as much as i possibly can next tournament!!!!


by the way, i played melee today at my friends house and i forgot how bad he was in melee. He gets owned really bad....and his pkt is slow and weird....People really dont expect anyone to use ness imo, so at the very least i will have the element of surprise next tournament(in 8 days!!)

 

[marcus0103]

Good luck at your tourney PKSkyler, I'll also have my first tourney on the 14th as Ness. I hope to do well =]

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness is not a sucky character. He is a very good one. And the death grab isnt so bad. I dunno how often I say this, but Ulevo siad that you CAN dodge attacks after a grab release with DI and a perfectly timed defensive maneuver.