• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

This is dead, look for the new matchup thread. Be sure to read the rules.

Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
MK can gimp like hell especially when Snake is at his recovery. The best thing to do is obviously stay defensive and serious but I think MK's approaching ability might break through the defenses but if you stay focused on him, you'll do fine. (I think, depends if your a great Snake) IMO
 

Mickey69

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
99
Location
FL
yo to contribute to the oli match up i dont know if this was brought up or not so let me know if it has

I was watching the snake hitbox vid and noticed his dair covered his whole body except for his head so if an oli spams you with pikman wouldnt it be a safe call to dair away from the oli? I tested it out and snake killed the pikman 90% of the time.
 

gallax

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
5,641
Location
Orlando(UCF), Fl
dair is a viable option, but if you want to aerial then do a double jump nair. that way u have no landing lag when you hit the floor and have a better chance to respond if olimar wants to confront you or tried to get near you.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
What advice and we're talking about the dood right there ^ The main up there in other words

I'll just copy paste the thing I posted at page 66 of FAQ thread of Snakes:

MK is a fun fun match up for Snake. D-tilt gets really annoying since it can shield poke Snake and it's very hard to evade tornado. MK's air games are the way opposite of Snake, It's high priority, fast, excellent burr... The only thing that you can count on is playing evasively and defensively, you need to camp and dodge MK with grenades and mindgaming against MK will be kinda hard. You need to spam nades because this is what keeps you alive against him and f-tilt would be your best bet than U-tilt. I don't use U-tilts in this match up because it's most likely punishable since it has 37 frames or 34 and most of MK's moves could punish it. JUST PLAY DEFENSIVE AND PLAY SMART, space hard no matter how hard it is and of course avoid going up to the air and stay on the ground. MK has verrryyy good platform control so better go to FD and your obiously best stage Halberd which is ironically MK's homestage (lol) MK is a flashy roller so better get ready. Just remember the things you have to becareful about the match up:
- Yourself
- MK
- Tornado
- Shuttle loop
- Your recovery
- Getting into the air
Stay away against MK at all times to keep caution against him, again to rephrase nade, nade MK. Whenever (As in if you find time) IF you found an open spot of MK, punish him hard. MK can kill/gimp you while you are recovering easily with Shuttle loop so prepare extreme DI.

That's all, correct some mistakes if there
 

MiniTroika

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
333
What advice and we're talking about the dood right there ^ The main up there in other words

I'll just copy paste the thing I posted at page 66 of FAQ thread of Snakes:

MK is a fun fun match up for Snake. D-tilt gets really annoying since it can shield poke Snake and it's very hard to evade tornado. MK's air games are the way opposite of Snake, It's high priority, fast, excellent burr... The only thing that you can count on is playing evasively and defensively, you need to camp and dodge MK with grenades and mindgaming against MK will be kinda hard. You need to spam nades because this is what keeps you alive against him and f-tilt would be your best bet than U-tilt. I don't use U-tilts in this match up because it's most likely punishable since it has 37 frames or 34 and most of MK's moves could punish it. JUST PLAY DEFENSIVE AND PLAY SMART, space hard no matter how hard it is and of course avoid going up to the air and stay on the ground. MK has verrryyy good platform control so better go to FD and your obiously best stage Halberd which is ironically MK's homestage (lol) MK is a flashy roller so better get ready. Just remember the things you have to becareful about the match up:
- Yourself
- MK
- Tornado
- Shuttle loop
- Your recovery
- Getting into the air
Stay away against MK at all times to keep caution against him, again to rephrase nade, nade MK. Whenever (As in if you find time) IF you found an open spot of MK, punish him hard. MK can kill/gimp you while you are recovering easily with Shuttle loop so prepare extreme DI.

That's all, correct some mistakes if there


I gave advice on almost every possible situation when we were discussing Olimar and no one cared -___-

You're kind of right on some parts about the Meta Knight Matchup, but wrong on others. Up tilt should not be saved. It's your counter against the tornado. When you can't Up-tilt, use a grenade instead.
 

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
8,225
Location
Tampa, FL
Ugh, Ironic how the Snake boards are so "productive". You'd think the second best character would have more activity and insight then this. -_-

You cant be afraid to use Utilt against Dair camping and Nado but you have to pick your battles. Sometimes its better to just shield with a grenade at your feet ect, as MK can bait your Utilts and punish with Tornado/fastfalled Fair. One you Utilt MK out of Nado/Dair camping you'll make him wary and he'll likely minimize using it/be careful as its very psychologically distressing getting Punished for things that usually arent punished.

Dont be afraid to camp MK past 130%, as you can kill him with Ftilt or Grenades more conveniently than trying to force and Utilt.
 

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
8,225
Location
Tampa, FL
Not to be mean, Im just saying that in comparison to the MK boards (where many high ranked MKs and randoms alike all try to contribute to discussion), this place is like a wasteland or something.

Seems like the Snake metagame was slow developing even, since back in the day DSF and Afro never posted here, and most of the top snakes still dont seem to post much.

Anyway like I said I'll try and help where I can. If I didnt have a Test and a project due tomorrow I'd write up a quick summary.
 

Underload

Lazy
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
3,433
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Not to be mean, Im just saying that in comparison to the MK boards (where many high ranked MKs and randoms alike all try to contribute to discussion), this place is like a wasteland or something.
Yes, exactly what I wanted to say. It's a shame that a lot of the the big Snakes don't post here, it really does stunt the growth of Snake's metagame and our own personal development.

Maybe you'll find a home here ;D ?
 

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
8,225
Location
Tampa, FL
Actually I wouldnt mind hanging around a little. I've only been working on Snake for the past month, and I've been working on perfecting my nade game. It doesnt seem that there's a lot of top snakes pointing the metagame in any direction, as you'll notice that all the top snakes have their own unique styles.

Snake isnt a character you can just tell someone how to play because he has so many options though, you can just sorta tell when someones doing it right. In my opinion the problem is that there are a lot of options a lot of Snake players probably just dont know about. I'd be happy to make a video basically highlighting the important points of the current metagame though.
 

TwentyTwo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
617
Location
Northern Virginia, <3 Ramona Flowers
Yeah, definitely.

The way I figure is that no one takes advice when I offer anyway, people just like to either see your results or proof of some kind of amazing knowledge of the game. If people don't see that, they don't listen, and the person who said anything just goes back to being quiet.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
The problem with the snake board is that there is too much theorycrafting posted by people who have no clue what they are talking about.

You bring up good points redhalberd. There isn't a RIGHT way to play snake, only wrong ways.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
Yeah I see that also in the Snake boards. The only one I see making good theories is Susa though he's not so active so (x_x).
 

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
8,225
Location
Tampa, FL
The problem with the snake board is that there is too much theorycrafting posted by people who have no clue what they are talking about.

You bring up good points redhalberd. There isn't a RIGHT way to play snake, only wrong ways.
Yeah and a lot of the problem is that Snake is so open ended that a lot of Snake players dont know where to start or what direction to go in. Finding a playstyle that I liked and could use consistently was really difficult because there's so much you CAN do. I've watched my brother (Mampam/Taigacan) go from someone who had no clue how to use Snake to a competent Snake main, as well as myself so I can iron out a lot of the trial and error and explain what works and what doesn't work. A lot of the rest comes down to choice.
 

Underload

Lazy
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
3,433
Location
Morrison, Colorado
Okay, so, just informing everybody, that I'm finally going to finish up the summaries I started on a few days ago for Olimar and the Ice Climbers. And, instead of updating the existing summaries in sets (high, mid, low tiers) like I planned, I think we're going to start from stratch with matchups, as sort of an overhaul.

Also, while discussing the Metaknight matchup, take about 2 seconds to suggest what character should be discussed after MK. Remember, Olimar and Ice Climbers have both been covered already.

Oh, and as a third thing, simply as your opinion, what sort of format do you think would look best in the OP?
  • A bulletpoint summary w/ many short & concise points detailing important aspects of each matchup, grouped by relevance to one another?
  • Wall of text-ish type of summary which basically covers each aspect discussed one after another in a traditional, essay-like fashion?
  • Several short paragraph explaining each individual & important aspect of the match up, kind of like expanded bullet points?
(the latter two probably being the most time consuming to write / read)

Or would you like something completely different? Leave input, it only has to be a few words.
 

MiniTroika

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
333
Yeah, definitely.

The way I figure is that no one takes advice when I offer anyway, people just like to either see your results or proof of some kind of amazing knowledge of the game. If people don't see that, they don't listen, and the person who said anything just goes back to being quiet.
That's exactly my situation.
 

dextasmurf

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
1,152
Location
queens NY
wut do u do vs a diar camping mk.. I Kno up tilt reaches and nair can work but i like to save up tilt to kill him at 100. any other stratigies
 

TwentyTwo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
617
Location
Northern Virginia, <3 Ramona Flowers
I think you mean MK dair camping, and usually what you can do is charge mortars, or just mortars in general can help. Even better are usually making grenade walls to hit him.

As for the actual matchup, it's really important not to get grabbed at the edges because that is more likely than not going to turn into a really ugly gimp. He pummels until release and you have no good options for recover honestly. We all know he gimps us like a real *******, so practice recovering and landing like 10000 different ways. Aside from gimping offstage, when you go high off the screen to recover, MK can do a few things, they can tornado you, but this is beaten by either pulling a grenade and maybe killing both of you or you can just airdodge right through it. They can also up air juggle, but this is dangerous to airdodge as he can do two while you airdodge and catch you still, b reversing away from him or dropping a nikita can help this. Sometimes they'll try to shuttle loop you at the top of the screen and if they miss they'll chase you with the glide, this is fine as you can easily b reverse away from that.

As for edge guarding MK, the standard mortar wall/grenade at the ledge/c4 drop are your best options. Edge hogging has never worked out for me well unless they f'd up and were already in a helpless state, but if you shield a shuttle loop at the edge and they don't sweet spot you can ledge hug and this has worked out as most MKs don't try to glide to the other side.

Generally at lower percents, I like to not plant c4s because I might need them to recover, speaking of which when you c4 hop he might fly up to you and try to get it planted on him just pivot and c4 jump.

The tornado is super annoying, but you must learn to uptilt on reaction but definitely learn to pick your fights. I've heard that you can pivot grab the tornado, but I've not been able to do it, if someone else has and it worked I'd like to know. If they're tornadoing at you from one side of the stage you can literally just run away from it, and if they continue to chase you till it ends you pivot grab. We all know grenades can stop and punish the tornado so that's pretty standard, however if shield dropped they can tornado the top of your shield. I think, not absolutely sure, but it seems like a certain timing with the dash attack can beat the tornado, as said in the hitboxes video there are a small amount of invincibility frames, this has worked a few times for me.

His grabs put you in terrible positions, especially dthrow. At low percents he can dthrow you and run and dthrow you again if you don't try to land and grab him first. However this situation is advantageous to him because instead he can just follow up with aerial, and if you shield all the time he'll come with a grab. However, near any time he can dthrow -> tornado and that can be shielded, but only if you DI away. As far as I know the best way to DI the dthrow is always away, because if you DI up you're asking for a shuttle loop/tornado/aerial that will lead to a gimp.

Definitely use the grenade wall that Ally uses against MKs. Soft toss one cook the second and toss. Having a grenade in your hand is usually pretty beneficial in the air, because if shuttle looped it'll explode unless he hit you from directly under which will hit you at a less lethal angle/knockback I'm pretty sure. And DIing a grenade gives you a much higher chance of survival.

- Minor things -
Avoid omnigays by either getting fourth port, or just being aware of it.

His dtilt actually outranges both grenades and our ftilt1 I'm pretty sure, but it really should never be the case he gets to space perfectly against our ftilt.

I hope it helps someone.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
6,025
Location
Melbourne, Australia
perfect spacing. perfect spacing. sure it happens sometimes, but in between dair camping and him dodging your nades dont expect it to hit too often.
 

Nic64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725
MK can bait your utilt if he's smart, a lot of MK's won't take advantage of how mobile tornado is but utilt isn't that solid a counter for it if he relentlessly abuses how unsafe of a character you are.
 

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
8,225
Location
Tampa, FL
I have some friendlies against Seibriks MK with my Snake that I'll upload sometime this week. :)

I'm getting really good at the matchup now.
 
Top Bottom