Social There are three of us now?! Good thing we are the true Link.

[Tri Knight]

I tried doing a falling up air on someone grounded and was unable to get a hitbox to connect. the hit box might not extend as far down the hilt of the sword as in smash 4. also if you do a soft throw of a bomb upward from a standing position and detonate the bomb as soon as possible, the explosion misses your and you do not get hit. recoveries from bomb explosions seem impractical. the time of bomb release to detonation is almost 1 second. I feel saving your jump off stage, directional airdodge toward ledge, then double jump, then up-b is better than using a bomb to get your up b back.

the biggest adjustment in playing Link so far is his bombs. i am so used to bombs exploding on their own (ever since smash 64 ! ) that i found myself forgetting to detonate them. however i was able to get some slick set ups: take out bomb, run toward opponent, bait shield, grab, down throw, then detonate bomb.

overall, his aerials all felt VERY very satisying. his down air is amazing rightnow, with such little landing lag. back air can lead into a forward air follow up very nicely. up throw seems to have decent knock back. You can do jab 1 and 2 and then mix up with a down tilt to foward air , but most of the time it seems as the full 3 jabs is optimal unless you need a mix up. i was able to get the full 3 jabs and run into a dash attack rather easily. i think this is because everyone is generally faster. i was also able to do the full 3 jabs and dash into a nair to get a nair lock fairly easily.

his arrows felt nice and his boomerang not having a wind box, and also having a hitbox on return feels great.

overall, Link feels amazing. his bombs will take time to get used too but I think they are GREAT for ledge gaurds. all you have to do is z drop a bomb at the ledge and you cover practically EVERYTHING. knock opponent off stage, pull out bomb, z drop at ledge, go off stage to pressure opponent with nair/fair, get back on stage, they try to recover and you detonate the bomb. Link has soooooo many intricacies in this iteration of smash, its going to be so much fun exploring it. THEY NEED TO RELEASE A DEMO FOR THIS.

oh, and on the start up page for ultimate, it said, "event build 2018/ ver 6.0" or 0.6. something like that. so i could see them drastically changing things before release.

Sounds like hes gonna be a scary edge guarder. Compared to other characters, what do you think of him? Is he better than his past self?

 

[Iridium]

Looking at the Sudden Death sequence here, is it me or does Link seem really fast on the ground now? If so, I will rejoice at a change most needed for Link and hope it stays.

E emefcue , can you confirm anything on his mobility, and does it seem improved? To what extent?

 

[Rizen]

"How to spam Fsmash".

 

[emefcue]

Sounds like hes gonna be a scary edge guarder. Compared to other characters, what do you think of him? Is he better than his past self?

I only played link but compared to others he seems he can hold his own in this game. Hes definetly a zoner but with the new mechanics, i found myself doing many aeriels and being really aggressive since theres little landing lag. Its like you dont even have to use projectiles with him,just short hop aerials to space like with his back air. Similar to falcons nair in melee. Compared to his past self, he feels like smash 4 with buffss in everything except in recovery and jabs

Looking at the Sudden Death sequence here, is it me or does Link seem really fast on the ground now? If so, I will rejoice at a change most needed for Link and hope it stays.

E emefcue , can you confirm anything on his mobility, and does it seem improved. To what extent?

the mobility is great. he feels way less sluggish. we can run and follow up to extend a combo much easier than before. seriously, our ground mix up options have improved (this goes for the whole roster).
i tried to dash cancel my run with a down tilt however and out came a dash attack. i was able to cancel a dash attack with a down smash much easier. i think once we can map our own button layouts that this will help with that. I am going to immediately change the c-stick/right stick to attack so i can cancel dashes with down tilts and forward tilts etc. the possibilities are incredible.

aerial drift feels less however, like he is less floaty, but still the same weight, if that makes sense.

 

[Iridium]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gwACrjQCu6SL5nb9diiaWoYyh9s7eO9YWncFdDOG7rU/htmlview#

Here is a list of damage values we have so far. Although these may change, what do you guys think of Link's damage values in particular?

 

[Tri Knight]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gwACrjQCu6SL5nb9diiaWoYyh9s7eO9YWncFdDOG7rU/htmlview#

Here is a list of damage values we have so far. Although these may change, what do you guys think of Link's damage values in particular?

They seem more or less similar to what they were in Smash 4. I don't remember Grounded Up-B being that strong uncharged but it's been a while. I'd have to actually compare damage numbers.

Overall, from what I see it looks pretty good. Hit for hit, his damage output looks to be on the higher end of average.

I wonder if his weight value changed at all.

 

[Rizen]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gwACrjQCu6SL5nb9diiaWoYyh9s7eO9YWncFdDOG7rU/htmlview#

Here is a list of damage values we have so far. Although these may change, what do you guys think of Link's damage values in particular?

It's hard to compare to other games because all attacks deal more damage in 1 vs 1s in SSBU.

 

[emefcue]

today was the last day to play ultimate at ceo. i played 10 games of ultimate, going Link every time. i was also lucky enough to have one of my friends there today who had a media pass and was able to get some footage. I will post a link here when he can send me the footage.

one thing i noted in my last play of it, was that marth was able to air dodge to the right after i did a down throw and immediately did an up smash. also, undetonated bombs are very good. you can pick them up, throw them, hit them towards your opponent. if your opponent picks one up, they can't do anything until they throw it (similar to picking up a crate item).
oh, and nair is so good. it feels like it has more hitstun this time around.
you can also z-drop arrows but it barely makes the opponent flinch. link is going to be such a high pressure fighter.

link has a bright future in this game.

 

[Iridium]

today was the last day to play ultimate at ceo. i played 10 games of ultimate, going Link every time. i was also lucky enough to have one of my friends there today who had a media pass and was able to get some footage. I will post a link here when he can send me the footage.

one thing i noted in my last play of it, was that marth was able to air dodge to the right after i did a down throw and immediately did an up smash. also, undetonated bombs are very good. you can pick them up, throw them, hit them towards your opponent. if your opponent picks one up, they can't do anything until they throw it (similar to picking up a crate item).
oh, and nair is so good. it feels like it has more hitstun this time around.
you can also z-drop arrows but it barely makes the opponent flinch. link is going to be such a high pressure fighter.

link has a bright future in this game.

About the Remote Bombs, I agree about opponents' choices. They cannot really do anything with the bomb, while they cannot use tilts, smash attacks, grabs and neutral attack. We lose one option, but they lose many. Personally, my Link is very aggressive, so I think I can work with these changes.

 

[emefcue]

About the Remote Bombs, I agree about opponents' choices. They cannot really do anything with the bomb, while they cannot use tilts, smash attacks, grabs and neutral attack. We lose one option, but they lose many. Personally, my Link is very aggressive, so I think I can work with these changes.

i always wanted to play an agressive style link in smash 4, but would get punished alot because of smash 4 rewarding defensive style playing. in ultimate that has all changed. i really feel that agressive links will love how he plays now.

 

[Rizen]

today was the last day to play ultimate at ceo. i played 10 games of ultimate, going Link every time. i was also lucky enough to have one of my friends there today who had a media pass and was able to get some footage. I will post a link here when he can send me the footage.

one thing i noted in my last play of it, was that marth was able to air dodge to the right after i did a down throw and immediately did an up smash. also, undetonated bombs are very good. you can pick them up, throw them, hit them towards your opponent. if your opponent picks one up, they can't do anything until they throw it (similar to picking up a crate item).
oh, and nair is so good. it feels like it has more hitstun this time around.
you can also z-drop arrows but it barely makes the opponent flinch. link is going to be such a high pressure fighter.

link has a bright future in this game.

So they don't behave like before as items that can be carried in a single hand? Does Link treat bombs like crates too? Do opponents handle them differently than Link?

TBH I'm not optimistic about a Link who can't zone with a f8 jab. But I haven't played it yet. We need a demo (and I'll need a wii u :/ )

 

[emefcue]

So they don't behave like before as items that can be carried in a single hand? Does Link treat bombs like crates too? Do opponents handle them differently than Link?

TBH I'm not optimistic about a Link who can't zone with a f8 jab. But I haven't played it yet. We need a demo (and I'll need a wii u :/ )

we can still throw out boomerang and shoot arrow after we pull out a bomb. that hasn't changed. but if an opponent picks up a bomb, they treat the bomb like a crate. if they are holding a bomb, they will drop the bomb if they are hit. ( this could be damage dependent. i used a forward smash and they dropped the bomb)

 

[smashingDoug]

Does anyone think twilight princess link should be dlc?
You can have young link as oot link cause oot link is a kid

 

[emefcue]

I would rather have oot adult link as dlc. But i can see a twilight skin being popular

 

[smashingDoug]

I would rather have oot adult link as dlc. But i can see a twilight skin being popular

Could we meet in the middle with hero shade

 

[Rizen]

Can we talk about how awesome TP's zora designs were?

For the most part I love the art style of TP. Just don't mention gorons, lol.

 

[smashingDoug]

Best part is how the helmet looks like a head from a river zora

 

[Tri Knight]

TP definitely has the best art direction. That version of Ganondorf looked royal and terrifying. I appreciate OoT Ganondorf in Smash Ultimate but seriously, TP Ganondorf is in his own league. The final fight in TP is one of my most memorable moments in the series by far.

Best version of the tunic as well IMO.

 

[Arthur97]

TP definitely has the best art direction. That version of Ganondorf looked royal and terrifying. I appreciate OoT Ganondorf in Smash Ultimate but seriously, TP Ganondorf is in his own league. The final fight in TP is one of my most memorable moments in the series by far.

Best version of the tunic as well IMO.

I am a fan of the simple OoT tunic myself. Actually adding the sheath strap from the art was a nice touch in the 3D version. TP is good too. I'd take either over BotW tunics (Champion or Hero).

 

[emefcue]

actually, adventure of link style, ocarina of time/majoras mask, and breath of the wild are my favorite styles followed closely by windwaker. twilight princess is good too. and how can i forget a link to the past. you know what. all the zelda games have great styles. i can hardly rank them

 

[skydogc]

<--- Pretty sure the artwork for the OG Zelda game stands out to me. It says, "I've slaughtered armies of monsters, and I never even put on pants."

 

[Rizen]

As a kid I had an ALttP player's guide that had really epic realistic art. It shaped the series for me back in a time without 3D models when we had to use our imaginations.

I wish I could find more of it. TP was the closest the series got after going anime.

 

[skydogc]

As a kid I had an ALttP player's guide that had really epic realistic art. It shaped the series for me back in a time without 3D models when we had to use our imaginations.

I wish I could find more of it. TP was the closest the series got after going anime.

I miss the days where we had instruction guides and players guides with real art in it. Feels like so long ago now.

 

[emefcue]

my friend finally got the footage off his phone. it was only 1 game. still was getting used to the controls. the biggest adjustment was the l,r, and triggers. (im sure you've heard people comment on it messing them up by now) if this link does not work please let me know and i will find another way to share it.
i tried to show off some of the bomb properties. i managed to pull of a perfect sheild. down tilt sets up nicely for a forward air, and i believe boomerang to nair was very close to locking. marth was able to airdodge out of a down throw to up smash. i only wish i recorded my last game that day. i did some great off stage things with link that had some people in line popping off lol. (i even had some nintendo workers in awe )
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9osZWXi4GQxK2xCq8

 

[Iridium]

my friend finally got the footage off his phone. it was only 1 game. still was getting used to the controls. the biggest adjustment was the l,r, and triggers. (im sure you've heard people comment on it messing them up by now) if this link does not work please let me know and i will find another way to share it.
i tried to show off some of the bomb properties. i managed to pull of a perfect sheild. down tilt sets up nicely for a forward air, and i believe boomerang to nair was very close to locking. marth was able to airdodge out of a down throw to up smash. i only wish i recorded my last game that day. i did some great off stage things with link that had some people in line popping off lol. (i even had some nintendo workers in awe )
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9osZWXi4GQxK2xCq8

Good, good! I don't get to see Link more than I do Ridley or Inklings, so this means a lot! Also, I want to be able to feel satisfied with the dunks I can pull off .

 

[Rizen]

Can you act out of airdodge or do you free fall? That sucks Marth can dodge out of Dthrow. Our combo turned into a 50-50>airdodge read (Marth ADs and we chase with aerial, or Marth jumps/Dairs and we buffer Usmash/Tilt/possibly Nair to beat it). Can opponents use specials holding a bomb? Because that's basically how bombs have always been. Marth seemed pretty fast with that bomb.

 

[emefcue]

Can you act out of airdodge or do you free fall? That sucks Marth can dodge out of Dthrow. Our combo turned into a 50-50>airdodge read (Marth ADs and we chase with aerial, or Marth jumps/Dairs and we buffer Usmash/Tilt/possibly Nair to beat it). Can opponents use specials holding a bomb? Because that's basically how bombs have always been. Marth seemed pretty fast with that bomb.

yes you can act out of airdodge but only after a certain number of frames.

for recovering, i think savinging our double jump, then directional airdoge towards stage, then double jump, then up-b will be most optimal. if we use double jump off stage then try to airdoge, it is almost certain death, as we wont be able to up-b soon enough to recover (this is the case for most of the cast).

i don't know for certain if they can use specials while holding a bomb. i did not think of testing that -__- . i have to ask him if he tried to do a special attack.

 

[skydogc]

yes you can act out of airdodge but only after a certain number of frames.

for recovering, i think savinging our double jump, then directional airdoge towards stage, then double jump, then up-b will be most optimal. if we use double jump off stage then try to airdoge, it is almost certain death, as we wont be able to up-b soon enough to recover (this is the case for most of the cast).

i don't know for certain if they can use specials while holding a bomb. i did not think of testing that -__- . i have to ask him if he tried to do a special attack.

Dumb question - maybe it was answered elsewhere but I can't recall - but do we go into free fall after Up B or can we still act?

 

[emefcue]

Dumb question - maybe it was answered elsewhere but I can't recall - but do we go into free fall after Up B or can we still act?

free fall. i heard that rumor too so i tested it and it didnt work lol. so yea, after your up b its the same as every smash game.

 

[Rizen]

How early do bombs kill?

 

[Arthur97]

free fall. i heard that rumor too so i tested it and it didnt work lol. so yea, after your up b its the same as every smash game.

I thought it was supposed to be that if he got hit during the spin attack he would get his jump back. If true, seems more like a bug.

 

[emefcue]

I thought it was supposed to be that if he got hit during the spin attack he would get his jump back. If true, seems more like a bug.

ok i was confused about this too.
If you up-b, you will enter free fall like the other smash games. if you are hit during the free fall, you will be able to up-b again.

if you up-b before your double jump, you still lose your double jump. i heard people saying you still have your double jump if you had saved it but It was not possible when i played.

How early do bombs kill?

i think i was in the mid to high 100%'s and i detonated a bomb on myself and i got the zoomed in mini slo-mo animation with the lightning. it didn't kill but it was close. knock back is good on it.

im trying to theory craft with his bombs. the blast radius is so big. i love ittt

 

[Tri Knight]

the blast radius is so big. i love ittt

One thing I definitely noticed too. It's much bigger than Smash4 it seems.

 

[Iridium]

I do wonder if down tilt spikes still. It is very satisfying to get a spike for how rare it is to aee, and I don't understand why they nerfed the knockback in SSB4 anyway when it was not game-changing at all.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

ok i was confused about this too.
If you up-b, you will enter free fall like the other smash games. if you are hit during the free fall, you will be able to up-b again.

if you up-b before your double jump, you still lose your double jump. i heard people saying you still have your double jump if you had saved it but It was not possible when i played.

How did you test this, exactly? And can you turn tap jump on/off in the demo? That might be important.

 

[emefcue]

How did you test this, exactly? And can you turn tap jump on/off in the demo? That might be important.

now im doubting my memory. but i dont recall having any jump after an up-b. i was off stage, up-b'd then was in free fall. if there is footage suggesting otherwise i want to see it. i dont remember being able to keep your double jump after my up-b.

and no, you could not toggle tap jump on/off in the demo build. and youre right, there could have been accidental jumps because of not having this option.

I will tell you, after an attack like an aerial, it felt tougher to buffer an up tilt upon landing. tougher in the sense that the timing might just be different from smash 4 or the window to buffer moves is smaller. im not sure. it might have something to do with aeriels having less end lag or landing lag.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

now im doubting my memory. but i dont recall having any jump after an up-b. i was off stage, up-b'd then was in free fall. if there is footage suggesting otherwise i want to see it. i dont remember being able to keep your double jump after my up-b.

and no, you could not toggle tap jump on/off in the demo build. and youre right, there could have been accidently jumps because of not having this option.

I will tell you, after an attack like an aerial, it felt tougher to buffer an up tilt upon landing. tougher in the sense that the timing might just be different from smash 4 or the window to buffer moves is smaller. im not sure. it might have something to do with aeriels having less end lag or landing lag.

Thought so. I still wonder about double jump being stored after getting hit out of Up B/free fall, and I wonder if other characters that go into free fall after Up B can double jump as well. I'm leaning more towards that not being possible since "free-fallers" don't usually have access to a double jump, iirc.
Also, I've been playing Melee recently to prepare myself for Ultimate because of the universal jumpsquat and the reduced aerial lag. It was really weird getting the timing for the short hops because it's much tighter than in Brawl and Sm4sh. Besides that, I really enjoy playing an aggressive Link because it's so satisfying to see those string/combo of hits connect, and I sense that the meta in Ultimate will steer not quite in the same direction as Melee's, but similar, straying significantly from Sm4sh's defensive meta.
Ultimate = aggressive neutral versus Sm4sh = defensive neutral, if that makes any sense.

 

[Rizen]

I see the new Link being like Ike, a sword/grappler. The new airdodges worry me for Dthrow. Link will probably rely heavily on boomerang for pressure and setups>get a big hit or grab in>long range harassment with bombs and projectiles until the opponent closes in again. If the video with Zero's Villager has any relation to the finished game it shows Link will have to approach zoners now.
I g2g, will post more later.

 

[zeldasmash]

And I sense that the meta in Ultimate will steer not quite in the same direction as Melee's, but similar, straying significantly from Sm4sh's defensive meta.
Ultimate = aggressive neutral versus Sm4sh = defensive neutral, if that makes any sense.

I agree that the meta will be closer to Melee then Smash 4's considering how the new mechanics and changes really favor aggressive play. And also punish aggressive play with the parry. Due to Link being more centered on aggressive play, the new changes seem to favor him a lot. He's much faster with the new mechanics, he doesn't seem nearly as sluggish as he was in his previous incarnations and it can allow him to do legit strings. Couple that with the bombs and you have a characters that can create a lot of scenarios where he owns the neutral due to his range and coverage.

I think Link is in a good place in this game, at the very least in theory.

 

[Tri Knight]

I see the new Link being like Ike, a sword/grappler. The new airdodges worry me for Dthrow. Link will probably rely heavily on boomerang for pressure and setups>get a big hit or grab in>long range harassment with bombs and projectiles until the opponent closes in again. If the video with Zero's Villager has any relation to the finished game it shows Link will have to approach zoners now.
I g2g, will post more later.

I see a lot of videos of Link players trying to zone but i keep referring back to the same video you mentioned. Villager was definitely the one forcing the approach the entire match. Link's bomb changes definitely took him out of the zoning role but his landing lag, longer sword, higher mobility and grab tell me that hes definitely gonna be more aggressive.