Social There are three of us now?! Good thing we are the true Link.

[Rizen]

It's too early to say whether SSBU Link is a nerf of SSB4 Link. The new mechanics in this game promote offensive play much more than Sm4sh did, and word has it that his aerials have significantly less landing lag, making them safer on shield.

Aside from Dair do we know anything? Dair already bounced shields. Link has safe on shield aerials in SSB4 with shiek levels of landing lag. Zair 8f landing lag, Bair/Nair 10 f, Fair 12f, all positive on shied drop.

 

[Tri Knight]

SSB4 Link wasn't even that good though. He was low-mid at best and his mobility made his zoning ability only decent compared to other Zoners.

So far what we DO know about Ultimate Link is that he jumps and moves way faster, has a different Jab3 that covers more angles and looks to be more CQC oriented (which could mean faster frame data). I was wondering if the faster mobility could mean potential boomerang -> aerial combos but we'll see.

But based on the fact that we still don't know much, I can't say one is better than the other. I watched these videos over and over. Ive noticed plenty of upsides right up there along with his his established downsides.

Honestly if you want my opinion, Id take swordfighter Link over Zoner Link based on what I've seen so far. I like the sound of a more sword-focused Link and changes and tweaks from SSB4 to Ultimate is something Link definitely needs. I'm just hoping he gets decent frame data.

 

[Rizen]

SSB4 Link was still better than Ike. That's how I see it. We already can combo boomerang to Fair so I doubt that is removed.

The thing is Link has always been a zoner. If I wanted a swordfighter I'd play Marth. I'm not 'loyal' to the character but rather his playstyle, thank goodness for Young Link.
SSB4 Link was undertuned but had the tools to manage any MU except maybe Sheik, who was still only -2. With SSB5 balancing Cloud and (hopefully) Bayo, finally, we had a chance for Link to actually be good without having the word "Toon" in front of his name. Now they've reinvented his style. It sucks for die-hard Link players who stuck with him through every SSB, even Brawl *shudders*, because we loved his style.

SSB5 Link with the balancing changes but his SSB4 Zair and Bombs would have been awesome. I would predict high tier. But now he's going to be a mediocre character like he always is. We're getting the more solid melee fighter Link should have been anyway (assuming he gets decent frame data) but at the cost of him zoning and comboing. I predict SSB5 Link's MUs will be more polarized. He might do better vs Sheik who can break his walling easily but could be worse vs DK, who can grab and Ding Dong him. If Link gets shut down he gets shut down harder than before. Potentially.

Of course, like I said, it really depends on how the game is balanced. Characters might not have insane ladders and ding dongs next time.

 

[Batu]

Its hard to say or assume that Link is going to be a bad character with the poor info we have now... the best we can do is wait until the definite version come out and prove by ourselves of he is going to be viable or not.

 

[Tri Knight]

SSB4 Link was still better than Ike. That's how I see it. We already can combo boomerang to Fair so I doubt that is removed.

The thing is Link has always been a zoner. If I wanted a swordfighter I'd play Marth. I'm not 'loyal' to the character but rather his playstyle, thank goodness for Young Link.
SSB4 Link was undertuned but had the tools to manage any MU except maybe Sheik, who was still only -2. With SSB5 balancing Cloud and (hopefully) Bayo, finally, we had a chance for Link to actually be good without having the word "Toon" in front of his name. Now they've reinvented his style. It sucks for die-hard Link players who stuck with him through every SSB, even Brawl *shudders*, because we loved his style.

SSB5 Link with the balancing changes but his SSB4 Zair and Bombs would have been awesome. I would predict high tier. But now he's going to be a mediocre character like he always is. We're getting the more solid melee fighter Link should have been anyway (assuming he gets decent frame data) but at the cost of him zoning and comboing. I predict SSB5 Link's MUs will be more polarized. He might do better vs Sheik who can break his walling easily but could be worse vs DK, who can grab and Ding Dong him. If Link gets shut down he gets shut down harder than before. Potentially.

Of course, like I said, it really depends on how the game is balanced. Characters might not have insane ladders and ding dongs next time.

It's a good thing they brought Young Link back. In a way, he's there for the people who wanted Link to remain a Zoner. Young Link is, in just about every way, Pre-Ultimate Link - maybe even pre-ssb4. It sounds like Young Link will likely be your go to.

Part of me is worried they're gonna drop the ball with Link, but honestly the other part is thrilled to have the more dedicated swordsman Link should be.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

When a player gets attacked in Ultimate, they will still be facing the direction they were in regardless of where they got hit (before, only Shulk's Back Slash in Sm4sh had that property). How do you guys think this will affect how we use moves like the remote bomb and boomerang?
For example, Sheik's quicket aerial is her forward air, so if we placed a bomb behind her and blew her up, we'd have to follow-up quickly or else our attack would get beaten by her Fair.

 

[Rizen]

@ site, what I can't 'like' a post without having to confirm it? I'm a 'big boy' who can handle that kind of responsibility, you know.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

@ site, what I can't 'like' a post without having to confirm it? I'm a 'big boy' who can handle that kind of responsibility, you know.

What kind of browser/phone are you running on, my dude?

 

[Tri Knight]

@ site, what I can't 'like' a post without having to confirm it? I'm a 'big boy' who can handle that kind of responsibility, you know.

Are you SURE you want to like this post?

Confirm
[Yes][No]

Ryu_Ken I don't mind it. I think it makes more sense in general and it also means we can jab someone from behind and try to jab cancel for a follow up without worrying about someone mashing A at us to win... I think?

Speaking of which, was Sheik's Fair always that weak in damage because I think I remember watching someone pulling off some pretty garbage damage from it in one of the recent videos.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Speaking of which, was Sheik's Fair always that weak in damage because I think I remember watching someone pulling off some pretty garbage damage from it in one of the recent videos.

IIRC Shiek's fair in Smash 4 did 4.5%(weak hit) or 5.4%(strong hit).

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Just gonna drop my analysis of Link's taunts here because I don't think it's good enough to be a thread on its own.

Two of Link's taunts have carried over from Sm4sh:
1) Up Taunt: Link twirls his sword and sheathes it, a reference to Twilight Princess Link when he defeats an enemy and puts it away in a flashy manner
2) Down Taunt: Link leans up and poses with his sword, a reference to Smash 64 Link's classic taunt

3) The Side Taunt, however, has changed since BoTW Link doesn't have a fairy companion. Not in the traditional sense, at least. This taunt, where he holds out the sword as it glows, references the DLC portion of Breath of the Wild specifically.

Spoiler: Spoilers for SS and BoTW DLC

Of course, the taunt is visually similar to how Link holds the sword in the cutscene upon completing Trial of the Sword DLC, but there's more to it than that.
The Master Sword glows to signify either a strong, evil presence is nearby, or when the spirit within it is communicating or resonating with Link. If you've played Skyward Sword, you'll know Fi, Link's companion in that game, is the spirit that resides within the Master Sword, and she makes a distinct sound whenever she comes out of the sword to talk to Link. That same sound can be heard as the sword glows in the cutscene that plays once you beat the DLC, signifying Fi is still within the Mastsr Sword in BoTW. In a way, the Master Sword itself is Link's companion, and that's why it glows during his new side taunt.

And there you have it. Just some info and thoughts I wanted to pass along.

 

[Rizen]

View attachment 149351
3) The Side Taunt, however, has changed since BoTW Link doesn't have a fairy companion. Not in the traditional sense, at least. This taunt, where he holds out the sword as it glows, references the DLC portion of Breath of the Wild specifically.

: "So Link I see your schwartz is as big as mine..."

 

[skydogc]

: "So Link I see your schwartz is as big as mine..."

My God........Ganondorf using his sword...........They're gonna get their schwartzes twisted!

 

[Batu]

I am worried to cuz i was one of those who stick with link since 64... and now I'm going to learn a new play style for my main, but I accept that if that means hes going to be a better character(if that's the case). And who knows maybe I get better as a player in the process.

 

[skydogc]

So I ran across a thread on the Smashbros reddit that had some info I didn't remember seeing anyone bring up.
Original Thread
A point of interest
Document in this point of interest with notes on Link

 

[Tri Knight]

So I ran across a thread on the Smashbros reddit that had some info I didn't remember seeing anyone bring up.
Original Thread
A point of interest
Document in this point of interest with notes on Link

I finally understand the true reason for rune bombs in BotW... so that the physical bombs don't just appear out of thin air like in the old games, there's an actual reason why they do now.

On another note this is a great find my friend. I was very curious about some of the info found in here.

That Frame 8 Jab is ugly though, jeez. I was over here thinking it's faster, and it's actually slower.

 

[Rizen]

Has anyone tested if other characters can pick up Link's arrows?

The f8 jab if true sucks but a normal grab does help his CQC. Curiously, grab will be Link's fastest ground attack.


TBH I wouldn't be surprised if Link has the same frame data as ssb4 in the final game.

 

[Tri Knight]

Link's frame data is looking like he's pretty much unchanged. That was pretty much my one fear. Makes me nervous for his ground game. I need a demo asap lol

 

[skydogc]

Yeah, was not excited about the Frame 8 part.

I really do hope we get a demo in the next month or so we can see if this is still the case, or at least try to confirm some of our numbers for ourselves.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

The speculated Frame Data on Link's Nair is 6/7, which tells me either this move has gone unchanged or Sakurai buffed it by 1 frame. The former's more likely since I don't think we'll ever get anywhere close to that frame 4 Melee kick.

 

[Tri Knight]

All things considered, his Nair was really freaking good in Smash 4. Im not happy with his frame data overall though. He might be susceptible to rush downs and get bodied. I'm really surprised they nerfed his jab.

Maybe there is more I'm not seeing.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

like the FAF on his jab 1. which is better. like it used to be. So yay for Jab 1 once again being used as a poke, a kill confirm and a combo into grab into throw combos.

 

[Tri Knight]

Ah, it ends quicker. I didn't notice that. Definitely not all bad then. You think they would allow that with all the jab lock drama in the past though?

 

[Batu]

like the FAF on his jab 1. which is better. like it used to be. So yay for Jab 1 once again being used as a poke, a kill confirm and a combo into grab into throw combos.

Man! Is this true?! If we get our jab1 back then link could have a strong CQC with that grab. :o

 

[Rizen]

Anyone play Monster Hunter World?


Q: Clocktown banker, guy or girl?

 

[Quillion]

Honestly, I think the BotW-based changes were unethical.

Yes, I know the changes were ultimately minimal and he plays largely the same, but current Ultimate Link does a poor job of representing Link throughout the series. He lost the Hookshot/Clawshot, one of Zelda's hallmark items, and his bombs need to be detonated manually. Being a rightie instead of Link's iconic left-handedness also doesn't sit well with me (and yes, I do know that they've been moving away from that starting with TP). BotW Link was good for his game, but he's not MY Link.

And no, having Young Link and Toon Link around at the same time is not good enough. Neither is trying to balance BotW Link with taking the other characters from different Zelda games.

 

[Tri Knight]

I don't think it's that bad. BotW is being treated as a legitimate new beginning for the series by Nintendo. Wild Link is the face of that new beginning.

Who knows how long it will be until we get another Zelda. But from what Nintendo has said, Zelda is moving forward with BotW as the foundation.

I don't mind the changes at all. Link is still Link... who is never the same character in the first place.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I kinda got tired of the Twilight Princess design from the past two Smash games, so I think Breath of the Wild Link's design in Ultimate is very refreshing and very much needed. Also, I relate more to the blue color scheme and his right-handness because one is my favorite color and the other is my dominant hand (and of course, Breath of the Wild is my favorite game from the entire series). Also also...

BotW Link was good for his game, but he's not MY Link.

Most likely unintentional, but this comment made me chuckle a bit. I think it's the emphasis on "MY Link," I dunno.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned in the other Link boards, but how would you all feel about the Links always facing forward in 1v1 like Ryu as a reference to Z-targeting in the 3D Zelda games?

The one problem is that it takes away from some of Ryu's uniqueness. There's also the issue of needing to make new animations for back walking, but I thought about it and there are a couple of characters who could have this characteristic and Link came to mind because of Z-targeting. Little Mac and maybe the Star Fox characters too could have this. Their reasoning would be more practical even though they do show up in their games, though. Boxers and pilots needing to keep their eyes on their targets where Punch-Out!! always had you face your opponent and some of the Star Fox games feature lock-on systems. Anyway, I think the Links and Little Mac would have the strongest case for sharing Ryu's characteristic of facing the opponent in 1v1. The Star Fox characters are a bit more iffy and if they all had it, then there would be 8 characters with this and people might be asking for more like why doesn't Ganondorf, Greninja, Pikachu, Samus, etc. do this? They face their opponents or have lock-ons in their games.

Also, before you worry about this, it has been confirmed that Ryu can do Bairs while facing his opponent. His Bair isn't locked to only hitting behind him.

 

[Iridium]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned in the other Link boards, but how would you all feel about the Links always facing forward in 1v1 like Ryu as a reference to Z-targeting in the 3D Zelda games?

The one problem is that it takes away from some of Ryu's uniqueness. There's also the issue of needing to make new animations for back walking, but I thought about it and there are a couple of characters who could have this characteristic and Link came to mind because of Z-targeting. Little Mac and maybe the Star Fox characters too could have this. Their reasoning would be more practical even though they do show up in their games, though. Boxers and pilots needing to keep their eyes on their targets where Punch-Out!! always had you face your opponent and some of the Star Fox games feature lock-on systems. Anyway, I think the Links and Little Mac would have the strongest case for sharing Ryu's characteristic of facing the opponent in 1v1.

Also, before you worry about this, it has been confirmed that Ryu can do Bairs while facing his opponent. His Bair isn't locked to only hitting behind him.

It would be funny if like in Ocarina of Time, once the z-target is done, in particular would receive a description of each fighter and what their weakness is.

 

[Tri Knight]

I kinda got tired of the Twilight Princess design from the past two Smash games, so I think Breath of the Wild Link's design in Ultimate is very refreshing and very much needed. Also, I relate more to the blue color scheme and his right-handness because one is my favorite color and the other is my dominant hand (and of course, Breath of the Wild is my favorite game from the entire series).

Even if you didn't like his costume or color scheme, he's got two versions of his traditional tunic and a few recolors of his champion tunic.

Twilight Princess is my personal favorite Zelda as well as having my personal favorite take on Link (the chainmail underneath the tunic sold it for me). He had the best fighting style (in Zelda not smash) and his finishing poses felt so badass.

But I don't mind BotW Link or his Champion Tunic.

 

[Ffamran]

It would be funny if like in Ocarina of Time, once the z-target is done, in particular would receive a description of each fighter and what their weakness is.

Not sure how that would work since it would be instant as the game would just start with them Z-targeting, but you just made me think of some secret taunts for the Links. Problem is that might be a bit too much since they'd have to write two to three -- I don't remember if you could do this in Wind Waker -- different sets of text for them, so maybe it should just be young Link who has secret taunt with Navi telling him about someone he's fighting. Watch Ganondorf get it too and his are sassy and condescending impressions of his opponents.

Aw man! Anyone who has played Final Fantasy VII, does Scan or Sense apparently as it's called in FFVII give short descriptions of the target like in Final Fantasy X? If not, then whatever, but if it does, then Cloud could have a secret taunt on his stage too.

 

[Rizen]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned in the other Link boards, but how would you all feel about the Links always facing forward in 1v1 like Ryu as a reference to Z-targeting in the 3D Zelda games?

The one problem is that it takes away from some of Ryu's uniqueness. There's also the issue of needing to make new animations for back walking, but I thought about it and there are a couple of characters who could have this characteristic and Link came to mind because of Z-targeting. Little Mac and maybe the Star Fox characters too could have this. Their reasoning would be more practical even though they do show up in their games, though. Boxers and pilots needing to keep their eyes on their targets where Punch-Out!! always had you face your opponent and some of the Star Fox games feature lock-on systems. Anyway, I think the Links and Little Mac would have the strongest case for sharing Ryu's characteristic of facing the opponent in 1v1. The Star Fox characters are a bit more iffy and if they all had it, then there would be 8 characters with this and people might be asking for more like why doesn't Ganondorf, Greninja, Pikachu, Samus, etc. do this? They face their opponents or have lock-ons in their games.

Also, before you worry about this, it has been confirmed that Ryu can do Bairs while facing his opponent. His Bair isn't locked to only hitting behind him.

It seems minorly disorienting to play one way in 1v1s and another in doubles/ffs.

Did FFVII have scan? I don't remember it but it's been a loooong time since I played.

 

[Ffamran]

It seems minorly disorienting to play one way in 1v1s and another in doubles/ffs.

Did FFVII have scan? I don't remember it but it's been a loooong time since I played.

It shouldn't be that disorienting. All it means is that in 1v1, the character who always face their opponent and would have a back walk and I think a back dash, but otherwise, still can run backwards, do Bairs towards their opponent, whatever.

Yes, but in Final Fantasy X, if you use the ability Scan which is apparently closer to Libra -- inconsistent move names, why? -- on certain characters, you get descriptions about them. For example, if you Scan Tidus, you get this: "Star player of the Zanarkand Abes. His attacks lack some power due to his inexperience with the sword. Speed is his greatest asset." From here: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Tidus/Gameplay.

 

[Tri Knight]

FF7 had Sense, which is pretty much the same thing. If I remember correctly, it tells you the name of the enemy you've sensed, their current and max hp, and any weaknesses they may have.

 

[Quillion]

THREAD WAS MOVED: ORIGINAL TITLE: Smash 4!Link should be an Echo Fighter

Yes, I liked BotW. Yes, I liked Link in BotW. But yes; I've said this before, but BotW is not MY Link.

I know that BotW Link is meant to take pre-Ultimate Link's place, but just doing that doesn't sit right with me. He doesn't have his Hookshot, which has always one of Zelda's hallmark items. We're also forced to use the Remote Bombs, which I know originated in MC, but I'd rather that we have bombs that don't have to be detonated. Oh, and he's right-handed, but that's a minor consideration. And yes, I know that Wild Tunic is supposed to represent classic Link, but...

However, I have to admit that several other people are welcoming to BotW Link, so I propose that we instead get options. Specifically, that we get "Classic Link" as an Echo Fighter. He would be based on the TP appearance, be left-handed, have the classic Bombs, and have the Clawshot. And to make it all worthwhile, they should throw in OoT Link as an alt, OoT-style bombs, classic Hookshot, and voice included. And why not throw in other Links as more alts? SS Link and Zelda II "classic" Link would both be great. We would get to unite several different versions of Link into one game finally! (No, Hyrule Warriors does not count; it was only HW Link cosplaying)

Next you'll say, "This would be a waste of resources just to include a previous version of a character," right? But this doesn't have to be the case. The Ultimate engine is built from the ground up, but we know it was built to easily port over the models and animations over from Smash 4. They may have received the BotW model from the Zelda team, but they absolutely have the old Smash 4 model and animations lying around. All they need to do is tweak Classic Link's balancing to match BotW Link's, and everything's fine. They practically have him developed already!

The biggest issue I see is the whole Boomerang issue. Would Classic Link get the Gale Boomerang or the normal Boomerang? What about SS Link's Beetle? I'd honestly prefer a universal Classic Boomerang with TP's using the Gale's model but without the wind effect. If custom moves come back (which I think they won't beyond the Miis), they can add a wind effect for that.

 

[Gameboi834]

But isn't this what Young Link is with minor exceptions/not the Smash 4 Link model?

 

[Tri Knight]

But isn't this what Young Link is with minor exceptions/not the Smash 4 Link model?

Yeah thats what I think. Young Link has pretty much taken the classic Link style, while Champion Link is out detonating his glowy blue bombs on himself repeatedly.

Edit: honestly, I'm fine with Champion Link. BotW was an incredible game that marked a new beginning for the franchise. It's fitting that Champion Link is now THE Link.

 

[Quillion]

But isn't this what Young Link is with minor exceptions/not the Smash 4 Link model?

Also, Young Link is supposed to be the midpoint between slow, strong Link and fast, weak Toon Link. Also, he's the only Link without the Master Sword.

 

[Batu]

Also, Young Link is supposed to be the midpoint between slow, strong Link and fast, weak Toon Link. Also, he's the only Link without the Master Sword.

If only he have the gilded sword from majoras mask...