Social There are three of us now?! Good thing we are the true Link.

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#1
Jist getting things started. I'm sure the Sm4sh thread will probably be going for a bit.

Ohai.

I wish I was at E3. I have so many questions on how the mechanical changes has messed with our boy. Can we bomb slide anymore with the shorthop attack thing? I dont know?!
 

Ryu_Ken

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#4
Hello, hello. About time we ditched that Twilight Princess look. And those grunts.
Is it weird that I really like Link's grunts in this game?
 
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#5
I'm hoping we can turn off the short hop air attack thing like tap jump and A+B smash.

I see no reason why they wouldn't as we usually have many control options.

Also can link bomb jump in this?
 
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Ryan.

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#6
Love the new look and down special, but I'm sad that his hookshot is apparently gone. I know it wasn't in BOTW but I feel like his recovery will suffer even more now since his up-special is still the same. :(
 

Batu

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#7
I'm hoping we can turn off the short hop air attack thing like tap jump and A+B smash.

I see no reason why they wouldn't as we usually have many control options.

Also can link bomb jump in this?
If the bomb explotion still hit us, then i think thats a huge possibility! :D
 
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Rizen

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#8
What do you want to bet Link will be mid-tier at best? Maybe I'm just pessimistic but I don't like how his bombs seem. At least boomerang looks good.
 

emefcue

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#9
I think Link's manual bomb detonation is very good as well as getting rid of that gale boomerang. I'm imagining so many possibilities with the boomerang and bombs this time around. It so promising.
 

Tri Knight

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#10
I'm also glad Gale Boomerang is gone. Link never really catches a break when it comes to tier though.

He looks a bit more mobile and has seemingly much less jump lag. His attacks also look faster (especially his jab) and also has a different animation and his loss of tether is kind of a mixed bag for me. He also still seems to be a heavyweight as well. Although despite his faster mobility, it does seem like the game itself plays faster so who knows how that will play out.

Might be in the minority here but I love the idea of remote bombs. I'm wondering if they're pushing him into more of a sword fighter role.
 

Idon

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#11
Yeah it always felt weird to me that Link wasn't a middle ground between the elegant grace of Marth and the sheer power of Ike, but instead some sorta projectile spamming maniac who has to keep a wall of STUFF between him and the enemy just in order to stay alive. Also likes kicking people a lot.

C'mon Link, you've got the goddamn MASTER SWORD and you're throwing your entire backpack at the enemy like your life depends on it.

That said, it might just be my eyes tricking me or more visual flairs but it looks like the range on Link got a massive bump in range.
 

Tri Knight

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#12
Well his frame rate was so garbage on just about everything that he was forced to try to make a wall. And he wasn't very good at doing it because he was so slow so when a competent player caught up to a Link, he could do very little about it.

His much faster jump lag and seemingly faster jab definitely has me feeling optimistic though. It's just tough to tell in the videos what with all the chaos... and that I'm basing my speculation off videos.
 
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#13
I'm still hesitant on the new bombs, just seems it would be harder to bomb jump(lowering recovery), combo into bombs, maybe I'm wrong here as the detonation seems rather quick, and bombs can't be spammed as much to create a wall(but he can double arrow so maybe that can work.)

I think with faster moves will make something like a wall less necessary so link could be playing more close up in this one.
 

Diddy Kong

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#14
How much have his Specials changed? And how does the double arrow shot work? Also does he still have a Clawshot / Hookshot for his grabs?
 
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skydogc

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#17
Doesn't seem he'll benefit from that much. Link seems kinda underwhelming as of now honestly.
I'm kinda concerned about his bomb animations now. I'm trying to find footage that shows if we can detonate while doing other actions. Hopefully it won't delay or stop anything.

Edit: Also can't wait to do work with this new incarnation.
 
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Tri Knight

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#18
I'm assuming the way this will pan out for the "three Links" is Heavy Link, Middle Yink, and Light Tink.

I think Yink might fill that traditional Link role we're used to now, honestly. The fact that he still has all of Pre-Ultimate Link's base tools while Link is actually losing some has me leaning toward this.

Tink will likely stay the way he was Pre-Ultimate as well, floating around and zoning the hell out of everyone.
 

Diddy Kong

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#20
Yo guys, question here. Does that one gray costume of Link, where he also wears no hat, resemble his trainee knight costume of Hyrule Warriors? Cause that's what it really looks like to me! Greatly would appriciate an anwser here!
 

Rizen

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#21
The reason Link's bombs were so powerful in ssb4 is they added pressure at the same time Link was using other attacks/options. He could use them for cover and combo things like Fair from them. The explosions not hurting Link if the bomb impacted the opponent made them fine for CQC. The timer also interrupted chains while he was in hitstun and let him get off the ledge.

The new remote bombs force Link to manually detonate them. They've gone from an extremely versatile tool to a long range only 'nuke' attack. This plus the loss of Zair is crushing to Link's mid-range game.
But all we saw was in development footage. The bombs could work out; I just don't like what we've seen.

Link's grab is a mixed blessing, assuming it's not stupidly slow like Zelda/Greninja's ssb4 grabs. Link actually has a low commitment CQC option to beat shields now. That's great for tomahawking, platform pressure (think SV), and getting critters out of his face. The downside is he loses a mid-range punish option that outranges things like Marcina's sword. Pivot grab was good in ssb4.
 
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Tri Knight

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#24

Rizen

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#26
Some high quality video from today's treehouse showcasing Link, Ganon and Zelda

https://youtu.be/vX6qUywlnjg?t=4h26m53s

on a side note, if someone catches your bomb you can't detonate it while they hold it. Do not want.
Link showcase:
https://youtu.be/vX6qUywlnjg?t=10949
TBH he looks gimmicky and bad. Throwing arrows takes away from sword attacks and has poor power. IDK if opponents can pick them up too. Not being able to detonate a held bomb is stupid. No Zair, no bomb combos, if not for boomerang his zoning would be utter trash.
 

Tri Knight

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#27
Link showcase:
https://youtu.be/vX6qUywlnjg?t=10949
TBH he looks gimmicky and bad. Throwing arrows takes away from sword attacks and has poor power. IDK if opponents can pick them up too. Not being able to detonate a held bomb is stupid. No Zair, no bomb combos, if not for boomerang his zoning would be utter trash.
Yeah, after watching this it looks like he's worse than before...
 

skydogc

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#28
Link showcase:
https://youtu.be/vX6qUywlnjg?t=10949
TBH he looks gimmicky and bad. Throwing arrows takes away from sword attacks and has poor power. IDK if opponents can pick them up too. Not being able to detonate a held bomb is stupid. No Zair, no bomb combos, if not for boomerang his zoning would be utter trash.
Yeah, after watching this it looks like he's worse than before...
Looks like we're gonna have to turn into mostly straight up CQC boys... :/

I'm praying this does not end up being our whole final kit. It looks dull and predictable compared to our previous iterations.
 

Tri Knight

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#30
Yeah unless his frame data is up to par, I can't see him being any good, and honestly worse than what he was in the past.

I mean I definitely wouldn't mind this new Link to be more about cqc but he needs to be good at it.
 

emefcue

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#31
Link will undergo several changes throughout this iteration of smash. nintendo is much more into catering towards e sports. Link when through several changes just in smash 4! lets not be so quick to right link off as bad. also, they could adjust wave lands and platform mechanics. im not discouraged in the least about this Link.
 

Tri Knight

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#32
Well through watching these vids I've found a few notable differences in his moves. Forward Air, for instance seems to connect both hits every time, likely meaning no or very little knockback until the second hit. Ill see if I can compile a list. Hopefully more videos surface

Edit: I heard a playable demo based on e3 version will happen soon. Anybody know about this?
 
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skydogc

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#33
Edit: I heard a playable demo based on e3 version will happen soon. Anybody know about this?
Oh Lord, please be true. Don't toy with my emotions like that.

Unrelated note, anyone mind if I go ahead and make a Forum Rules Thread and sticky it here? I figure I'll just grab Elessar's rules from the WiiU thread and post it here. Seems like a good set. I'm no mod, but we might as well set up right.

edit: not sticky HERE, just on this board.
 
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Tri Knight

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#35
Oh Lord, please be true. Don't toy with my emotions like that.

Unrelated note, anyone mind if I go ahead and make a Forum Rules Thread and sticky it here? I figure I'll just grab Elessar's rules from the WiiU thread and post it here. Seems like a good set. I'm no mod, but we might as well set up right.

edit: not sticky HERE, just on this board.
No toying here my friend, I'm pretty sure I heard them say it during the reveal. Along the lines of "E3 version demo playable soon" or something. Could have meant for the people at E3 though. I can see them holding off on a demo till the new online service comes up.
 
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#36
So I don't know who else caught the end of day 3 treehouse, but they did some Zelda character showcase. I'm noticing a nice speedup in links sword moves overall and his recovery seems better than I initially thought. This speedup could be the game in general though, but after watching more I'm liking the new stuff more. The faster grab isn't necessarily bad, but I miss the clawshot air attack.

Remote bomb is a nice zoning tool actually, the opponenet can pick it up, but link cannot detonate when it is in their hands. He can detonate right after they throw, so maybe that'll work. Someone tried but pressed it right out of range, so maybe there is some delay so you can't do that.

Double arrows was shown as well, I find it to be too much of a gimmick and it can be thrown with A so it takes away sword attacks. Perhaps as an edgegaurd to use an arrow with more knock back if you can snipe them with that single shot assuming the arrows follow the exact same trajectory far away.

The game has enough hype for them now right after E3 and this demo is probably pretty buggy as I believe they were worried about it crashing. They'd want to wait for E3 hype to die down and remind people about the game again in a couple months I would think. I could see one down the line like the 3ds one with madybe the original 8 with battlefield as the stage. I just don't see a demo with like as many characters as melee/brawl.
 

Iridium

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#37

Ryu_Ken

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#40
The Zelda character showcase made me really happy. A lot of the comments I've seen that are disliking Link's changes mainly take issue with him no longer having a hookshot. The new air dodge mechanics and the remote bombs make up for it, I think, and his grab is a lot faster now. He'll definitely feel weird to "relearn," however.
Also, is it just me, or does his Up B have a little more range? It looks visually different, so maybe when used in the air, the back/middle part of the hitbox catches opponents better than in Sm4sh.
On a different note, SSBU doesn't look too bad as an acronym, so I'm guessing that's what everyone's gonna be using when referring to this title.
 
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