Social There are three of us now?! Good thing we are the true Link.

[Arthur97]

Ike deserves ro be faster and good for once too!!!

It's not like he was terrible in 4.

 

[Spaceless]

It's not like he was terrible in 4.

I'm not saying that. But he was decent at best. Looks a lot better this time around and in my opinion he deserves his time to shine.

 

[Arthur97]

I'm not saying that. But he was decent at best. Looks a lot better this time around and in my opinion he deserves his time to shine.

Eh, I've really soured to him since Smash 4 came out. Mediocre is fine by me.

 

[Spaceless]

Eh, I've really soured to him since Smash 4 came out. Mediocre is fine by me.

Why is that? I think it's way better than just seeing Bayonetta, Cloud, Sheik and all the same top tiers again. I'd prefer everyone being good but well that won't happen.

 

[Arthur97]

Why is that? I think it's way better than just seeing Bayonetta, Cloud, Sheik and all the same top tiers again. I'd prefer everyone being good but well that won't happen.

It's not Smash related. He's fun enough to play, but I just don't like him much anymore. One reason being his fans. Not to mention how praised he is both in the games and in real life. And, yes, I'm a bit salty probably. So Chrom as an Ike echo would be okay. He's one of my favorites and I'd be able to use the fun moveset.

And, yes, it'd be great to see Bayonetta and Cloud knocked down a peg (or five), but not by him.

 

[The Merc]

Edit: Looking at the Japan expo footage, I just notice a cool detail with link's boomerang.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57r_B4Vmfqc&t=0s&list=PLhiLe5dqqxnKQ7RzMEBYFz3A2DHSEXYAo&index=14 (Time: 0:13)

It seems when it clangs with something else (in this case Snake's grenade), instead of disappearing, it stops and drops a small distance before vanishing. Nothing much but still a cool detail

 

[Tri Knight]

Ike' s Fire Emblem was the last I had played and definitely my favorite of the ones I did play. I wouldn't complain if he's better in Ultimate. Id rather him be better than Marth who, outside of Smash, means nothing to me. But it's all bias.

I think Link made a few bad calls in that Ike MU though.

 

[Deleted member]

Link and the new info about him is helpful, things I will remember when I use him for sure.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

So there is a lot of footage of Otakuni's Link from the Japan Expo in Paris on YouTube, and some really juicy stuff in them. It really stinks, though, that it's all in 30fps, so we can't really analyze his frame data (unless the Twitch VODs are in 60fps). It'd be nice to have a thread where we can get all the matches of Ultimate Link so far and put them all in one place for reference.

Here's some more examples:

Spoiler: Otakuni's Link

Snake would still win this MU, but not by a huge margin unlike his Brawl counterpart. The fire properties on his moves are a problem for Link since they blow up his bomb instantly.

It's hard to tell how much this MU really changed. Link's buffs in Ultimate seem to hurt Zelda's chances, but then again, the player didn't really utilize all of her moves that well.

Bayo player was too reckless here. The air dodge mechanic does help immensely in breaking out of her combos, but it's hard to see Link winning this MU unless she gets massively nerfed (which isn't that likely. At least, on that scale)

 

[Tri Knight]

Yeah, we could definitely get an analysis thread going and compile the videos if it's appropriate so we can maybe deepen discussions.

Only thing is, there's not much to go off of still. And of course, the best way to get more valuable MU discussion is by knowing what the enemy is capable of. But that problem will eventually fade once new videos surface as well.

 

[Iridium]

So there is a lot of footage of Otakuni's Link from the Japan Expo in Paris on YouTube, and some really juicy stuff in them. It really stinks, though, that it's all in 30fps, so we can't really analyze his frame data (unless the Twitch VODs are in 60fps). It'd be nice to have a thread where we can get all the matches of Ultimate Link so far and put them all in one place for reference.

Here's some more examples:

Spoiler: Otakuni's Link

Snake would still win this MU, but not by a huge margin unlike his Brawl counterpart. The fire properties on his moves are a problem for Link since they blow up his bomb instantly.

It's hard to tell how much this MU really changed. Link's buffs in Ultimate seem to hurt Zelda's chances, but then again, the player didn't really utilize all of her moves that well.

Bayo player was too reckless here. The air dodge mechanic does help immensely in breaking out of her combos, but it's hard to see Link winning this MU unless she gets massively nerfed (which isn't that likely. At least, on that scale)

What do you think about this?

Down throw combos look almost impossible on , and PK Fire blows it up immediately. However, perhaps may have an easy time edgeguarding with bombs being powerful tools to knock him away, and n-air being better too. Ness's down smash can reach under the ledge now though, so we will have to work around that.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks guys, good too see more stuff, and learn more from Link and how he works!

 

[zeldasmash]

At around 2:29, both Link and Bayo dashed and they both seem to have the same speed. I could be wrong but it looked like it.

 

[Iridium]

At around 2:29, both Link and Bayo dashed and they both seem to have the same speed. I could be wrong but it looked like it.

It is hard to tell, but it is possible that is the case. I hope Link's ground speed at least touches Mario's, for that should really help him in certain matchups potentially.

 

[zeldasmash]

If he's Bayo fast, Bayo was 28th in running speed while Link was 50th. This is very big if true and I don't think Bayo's running speed was nerfed.

 

[Iridium]

If he's Bayo fast, Bayo was 28th in running speed while Link was 50th. This is very big if true and I don't think Bayo's running speed was nerfed.

Considering how Bayonetta had a running speed of 1.6 in SSB4, tied with Mario and Ryu, compared to Link's 1.3944, it would be interesting to see Link get there. And Young/Toon Link would still be noticeably faster anyway, so there would be distinction (although BOTW Link is pretty fast canonically).

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Jeez, I cannot find a Gamecube adapter, let alone a controller near me. I still have my own gamecube controller, but I want to get a USB port for it so I can use it on both my Wii U and PC (or at least a USB Gamecube controller). Pretty crazy how these items can only be found online nowadays...

Link is definitely gonna feel very fast and more slick to play now that he has not only reduced landing lag on all his aerials, but a 3 frame jumpsquat and (possibly) slightly faster run speed. On another note, I'm really going to miss the 4 classic color schemes for his costumes that remained since 64.

 

[Rizen]

reduced landing lag on all his aerials,

Is that confirmed? I thought it was just Dair.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Is that confirmed? I thought it was just Dair.

I misspoke. It seemed to me that everyone got their landing lag on all their aerials reduced (notably characters like Bowser, Ganondorf, and Ike), so I assumed Link got the same treatment, too, besides his Dair.

 

[Iridium]

Here is an interesting analysis on by Dabuz, mostly focusing on how Link will now play. What do you guys think? I can't guess tier list positions now obviously, but he should have an easier time getting in his opponent's face.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Hey! I stumbled accross this ultimate link video! I don't know if it's already been posted, but I thought i'd drop it off here just in case. Seems like it'd be a video you'd all find interesting!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Shows a lot of cool stuff with Link's new bomb! I apologize if it's been posted before!

 

[meleebrawler]

Hey! I stumbled accross this ultimate link video! I don't know if it's already been posted, but I thought i'd drop it off here just in case. Seems like it'd be a video you'd all find interesting!

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Shows a lot of cool stuff with Link's new bomb! I apologize if it's been posted before!

Never occurred to me before, but the back hit of dsmash has a disgusting semi-spike angle, or the Marth just DIed badly.

 

[Rizen]

^Dsmash got the semi-spike in SSB4. It's great if you catch a roll.

Here is an interesting analysis on by Dabuz, mostly focusing on how Link will now play. What do you guys think? I can't guess tier list positions now obviously, but he should have an easier time getting in his opponent's face.

The sound cutting in and out was annoying.

Spoiler: Here's the comment I left

Good analysis but a few things I disagree with are 1 Landing lag changes hurt Link because in SSB4 he already had Sheik levels of low landing lag and now everyone has them. Zair f8, Nair/Bair f10, Fair f12 all positive on shield drop. 2 SSB4 bombs weren't an issue if the opponent caught one: Link still out spams them with SH/Jump boomerang that is completely out of bombs forward throw range and they have a measly second to get rid of the bomb. 3 Bombs in SSB4 were fantastic, they didn't hurt Link when thrown at an opponent, had 2 on screen at max, comboed into Fair at kill %s and other moves at low %s. Bombs broke ladder combos and ding dongs because their timers. Now Link lost all that for a single bomb that always hurts him so it has no real combo potential. The trade's terrible. Now Link still gets out-buttoned by 90% of the cast but can't zone them. I'm just a mid-level player from a small region so take this with a grain of salt but I do not think Link will be better than in SSB4 with these changes.

 

[Iridium]

^Dsmash got the semi-spike in SSB4. It's great if you catch a roll.

The sound cutting in and out was annoying.

Spoiler: Here's the comment I left

Good analysis but a few things I disagree with are 1 Landing lag changes hurt Link because in SSB4 he already had Sheik levels of low landing lag and now everyone has them. Zair f8, Nair/Bair f10, Fair f12 all positive on shield drop. 2 SSB4 bombs weren't an issue if the opponent caught one: Link still out spams them with SH/Jump boomerang that is completely out of bombs forward throw range and they have a measly second to get rid of the bomb. 3 Bombs in SSB4 were fantastic, they didn't hurt Link when thrown at an opponent, had 2 on screen at max, comboed into Fair at kill %s and other moves at low %s. Bombs broke ladder combos and ding dongs because their timers. Now Link lost all that for a single bomb that always hurts him so it has no real combo potential. The trade's terrible. Now Link still gets out-buttoned by 90% of the cast but can't zone them. I'm just a mid-level player from a small region so take this with a grain of salt but I do not think Link will be better than in SSB4 with these changes.

Yeah, the saddest part of Link's bombs now are how strict combos may be now. If the opponent is not in front of the bomb, as in they are they are standing perhaps to the left or right of the stage (based on positioning), they might get launched too far to get a follow up. They seem to resemble Duck Hunt's can now to me, especially on the aspect of follow-ups.

This may take a lot of adjustment, for I am used to the bomb blowing up on contact. Now, I feel like they need a little more reward for what has happened to them.

 

[meleebrawler]

^Dsmash got the semi-spike in SSB4. It's great if you catch a roll.

The sound cutting in and out was annoying.

Spoiler: Here's the comment I left

Good analysis but a few things I disagree with are 1 Landing lag changes hurt Link because in SSB4 he already had Sheik levels of low landing lag and now everyone has them. Zair f8, Nair/Bair f10, Fair f12 all positive on shield drop. 2 SSB4 bombs weren't an issue if the opponent caught one: Link still out spams them with SH/Jump boomerang that is completely out of bombs forward throw range and they have a measly second to get rid of the bomb. 3 Bombs in SSB4 were fantastic, they didn't hurt Link when thrown at an opponent, had 2 on screen at max, comboed into Fair at kill %s and other moves at low %s. Bombs broke ladder combos and ding dongs because their timers. Now Link lost all that for a single bomb that always hurts him so it has no real combo potential. The trade's terrible. Now Link still gets out-buttoned by 90% of the cast but can't zone them. I'm just a mid-level player from a small region so take this with a grain of salt but I do not think Link will be better than in SSB4 with these changes.

Just sounds like the perspective of a 4 player stubbornly trying to play Ultimate Link that way. He's basically Snake with a sword now, get used to it. He also benefits comparatively more from standard jumpsquats, so try to outbutton that nair now.

Yeah, the saddest part of Link's bombs now are how strict combos may be now. If the opponent is not in front of the bomb, as in they are they are standing perhaps to the left or right of the stage (based on positioning), they might get launched too far to get a follow up. They seem to resemble Duck Hunt's can now to me, especially on the aspect of follow-ups.

This may take a lot of adjustment, for I am used to the bomb blowing up on contact. Now, I feel like they need a little more reward for what has happened to them.

They knock people offstage and can kill people there, how is that not rewarding?

All this bellyaching is irrelevant anyhow. If you want your old bomb barrage combos just play Young Link.

 

[Iridium]

Just sounds like the perspective of a 4 player stubbornly trying to play Ultimate Link that way. He's basically Snake with a sword now, get used to it. He also benefits comparatively more from standard jumpsquats, so try to outbutton that nair now.



They knock people offstage and can kill people there, how is that not rewarding?

All this bellyaching is irrelevant anyhow. If you want your old bomb barrage combos just play Young Link.

My point was that his combo game is different, and that it may take a while to get used to. I still will play Link, but I think his bomb does have some issues about it. I have never played Young Link ever, so I don't know how well he plays enough to use him. I like Link too, and I was only talking about one part of him. I know he has great range and landing lag and a better grounded grab. Again, I will not be a part of the Young Link bandwagon, for I am not familiar with him.

If that sounded like a rant, well, I've been a very sensitive/troubled person today. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining here or anything.

 

[meleebrawler]

My point was that his combo game is different, and that it may take a while to get used to. I still will play Link, but I think his bomb does have some issues about it. I have never played Young Link ever, so I don't know how well he plays enough to use him. I like Link too, and I was only talking about one part of him. I know he has great range and landing lag and a better grounded grab. Again, I will not be a part of the Young Link bandwagon, for I am not familiar with him.

If that sounded like a rant, well, I've been a very sensitive/troubled person today. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining here or anything.

Fair enough, but I'll just say that in Melee Young Link basically had the same physics as regular Link with less reach and power but more jump height and speed. I suspect that will more or less be the same in Ultimate, so if you are at all familiar with Sm4sh Link it probably won't be too much trouble to adjust at all if you're at least willing to try him out.

 

[Rizen]

Just sounds like the perspective of a 4 player stubbornly trying to play Ultimate Link that way. He's basically Snake with a sword now, get used to it. He also benefits comparatively more from standard jumpsquats, so try to outbutton that nair now.



They knock people offstage and can kill people there, how is that not rewarding?

All this bellyaching is irrelevant anyhow. If you want your old bomb barrage combos just play Young Link.

Do you have any idea how good Snake's frame data was? His attacks were the size of texas. Link's sitting here with a f8 jab FFS. And Snake was never a rushdown either. He has nades and C4 plus that remote control rocket.

I agree the new JS helps a lot.

 

[Tri Knight]

Yeah, the F8 Jab is kind of unnecessary. I would have thought they could only make it faster, not slower at this point but I was wrong. Young Link has infinite jab so that's something to consider. I'm banking on Link's aerials more than his ground game right now but as long as his attacks are safe on shield, he should be in a decent spot. His mobility is a huge buff for him as that can only mean increased combo game.

 

[Rizen]

I'm banking on Link's aerials more than his ground game right now but as long as his attacks are safe on shield, he should be in a decent spot. His mobility is a huge buff for him as that can only mean increased combo game.

I partially agree. I think Link will have a wider % range to combo from Dtilt and boomerang. However losing bomb and Dthrow combos were huge blows to his combo game. Hopefully Dthrow will be patched like in SSB4 or fixed by the game's release. Better dash+non-tether grab+f3 JS means Dthrow should work very well on practically everyone. But take this with a grain of salt because Link doesn't have aerials that combo together. Maybe Bair>Nair at low %s but for the most part his combos will look just like SSB4's with a larger window: Dthrow>Utilt/Usmash at low %s, Nair at mid %s and Fair/Uair at high %s. If they do fix Dthrow that is.
Link did get returning boomerang, which is more of a frame trap tool than combo starter, and Fair 1 possibly as new combo starters. IDK if Fair 1>land>attack works though; it would be great if someone could test it.

So it's kind of a trade off :/ Normal bombs would have been excellent with the lowered JS and increased dash speed. Sakurai can't balance games at all, proof: Brawl. He always finds ways to **** Link up.

The simple answer to making SSB4 Link high tier is some key move frame data buffs like Nair/Jab from f7>f5, lower Utilt endlag, lower Dtilt base KB, DA f20>f16, JS f7>f6, and slight speed increases like airspeed .88>.91 (same as Palutena) and runspeed 1.3944>1.45 (same as Corrin). There's your top tier Link.

 

[Tri Knight]

I was wondering about F-air1 > Ground follow up as well. It's barely got any knockback if at all, but it seems like it still has hit stun, which means if Link can follow up fast enough, it could be a true combo up to even the high percents. That can be real good for us. If not, then at least a mix-up?

 

[Iridium]

I was wondering about F-air1 > Ground follow up as well. It's barely got any knockback if at all, but it seems like it still has hit stun, which means if Link can follow up fast enough, it could be a true combo up to even the high percents. That can be real good for us. If not, then at least a mix-up?

F-air 1 to down tilt to f-air 1 & 2 would be so sick to see! We will have to test out or see if the opponent has time to react though, although at high percents, it might be difficult for them. I'm starting to really like looking at his f-air!

 

[Tri Knight]

F-air 1 to down tilt to f-air 1 & 2 would be so sick to see! We will have to test out or see if the opponent has time to react though, although at high percents, it might be difficult for them. I'm starting to really like looking at his f-air!

Yup, it could also mean F-air1 > Up-B, which could possibly be a potential kill confirm depending on the power of Up-B. Or F-Air > Grab as well for launching purposes.

As soon as I saw the F-Air2 always connecting, my first thought was to test out Fair1 combos. That could be huge for our game.

 

[Idon]

Man, Izaw must be foaming at the mouth with how much new tech he can do.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I noticed in the Marth match after Link connected with the bomb blast -> Bair, he fast-falled an Fair, and the two hits still connected. Is it possible his Fair has a vaccum effect similar to Fox's fair in Sm4sh?

 

[Spaceless]

I noticed in the Marth match after Link connected with the bomb blast -> Bair, he fast-falled an Fair, and the two hits still connected. Is it possible his Fair has a vaccum effect similar to Fox's fair in Sm4sh?

Lul Link has fast fall fair footstool combo now.
But for real now. I really hope that his first hit fair does combo into things like downtilt. Would be a huge buff and a way better option than landing with bair.

 

[Rizen]

I bought the Dark Souls 1 "remaster". It's fun but a little disappointing. DS3 was my first and only DS game and DS1 looks and plays primitively by comparison. I was hoping for more of a "remake" and less awkwardly raising the resolution on a PS3 game and trying to pass it as a PS4 game :/ Still I was getting bored with Monster Hunter World and this is a fun way to kill some time.

Edit and it was only $40 so the price was fair.

 

[skydogc]

I bought the Dark Souls 1 "remaster". It's fun but a little disappointing. DS3 was my first and only DS game and DS1 looks and plays primitively by comparison. I was hoping for more of a "remake" and less awkwardly raising the resolution on a PS3 game and trying to pass it as a PS4 game :/ Still I was getting bored with Monster Hunter World and this is a fun way to kill some time.

Edit and it was only $40 so the price was fair.

Pretty good price. I never could quite get into the soulsborne games as much until Bloodborne. Probably my favorite. I was debating on giving the Dark Souls remaster a shot, but now I'm not so sure.

Lately I've been addicted to Octopath Traveler. Holy hell this game is fun.

 

[smashingDoug]

I really want to know what reasoning is behind being slower than or . I don't want to sound angry or anything, but I don't get what makes & so fast when I don't so movement that quickly in his own game. In fact, seems more faster especially when he uses up his stamina wheel doing so. This is merely a small observation, and while I get my answers would involve distinction, I wonder if mobility has to be one way to do it.

I can’t argue botw link with the others cause stamina

But twilight princess Link in his own game is faster then wind waker Link in his own game.

Maybe Link would be op if he was faster with less endlag


Found an idle alt
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...entory).png/revision/latest?cb=20170907002817

 

[JadeRock 5599]

Botw definitely should be the fastest considering he is more athletic, climbing mountains with his hands, running up large hills and slopes. Even with the stamina (which I think is more of a game balancing mechanic more than anything) compared to previous Links he seems faster and stronger.

TP would be the only one who could match in physical strength, but I doubt that.