• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Social There are three of us now?! Good thing we are the true Link.

Ryu_Ken

Ace Adventurer and Truth Seeker
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
3,281
Location
Texas
NNID
Sorastar9
3DS FC
4725-8061-1333
A user here created this wonderful thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ad-training-mode-tested.464174/#post-22768840

The info so far:
:ultlink:
Nair: 6 frames
Fair: 11 frames
Bair: 6 frames
Uair: 14 frames
Dair: 19 frames
Fullhop height: 3 stage units
Shorthop height: 1.5 stage units
Bomb stats: Pull takes 39 frames. Detonation takes 11 frames. Throw takes 23 frames. Bombs have 60~ HP.
Interesting Notes: Link can infinitely recover with bombs it seems. Throw them down and blow them up, that's all it takes, you can also zdrop-detonate. Bombs can take roughly 60 damage before exploding on their own. Bombs can't be blown up in someone else's hands. Link's dtilt can't meteor anymore (dunno if it could in 4, could in melee). Link can shorthop bair and double jump, but cannot shorthop nair and double jump.

Other bits of info found about the new remote bombs (you can check the full conversation between JohnKnight416 JohnKnight416 and Bakasama in the thread i've linked above):


Infinite horizontal recovery huh? Definitetly a buff :p
This is huge for Link. More important stuff that's been recently uncovered here:

- Fair1 is not fixed knockback, it's just got knockback growth weak enough that it links to fair2 at most reasonable percents. Fair1 will kill someone at 999%, but it still links into fair2 at 200%, so somewhere in the middle it stops linking. Bair1 is totally fixed knockback though.

- If you are moving quickly with fair1 you can land and true combo into jab,dtilt, dsmash, upsmash and grab until about 110% on all chars. Some chars you can land true combo into upB like Jiggs. When the stars align, it can true combo into fsmash.

- Bair can combo into turnaround grab, jab, dtilt, uptilt, upB, upsmash, dsmash at any%. Basically anything that isn't fsmash. I tested this on fox and jigglypuff.
Fsmash isn't going to be a reliable move for combos (it never was, anyway), but as I suspected, Fair and Bair are now going to be Link's go-to for hit-confirms and combo starters. Fair having "1 WHOLE FRAME" of lag reduced from Smash 4 doesn't seem like a big deal at first, but considering Link's going to be applying much more pressure on the opponent thanks to his increased attack range, this is pretty big. If you have questions or requests on Link, head over to the thread and send them that way!
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,963
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
A user here created this wonderful thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ad-training-mode-tested.464174/#post-22768840

The info so far:
:ultlink:
Nair: 6 frames
Fair: 11 frames
Bair: 6 frames
Uair: 14 frames
Dair: 19 frames
Fullhop height: 3 stage units
Shorthop height: 1.5 stage units
Bomb stats: Pull takes 39 frames. Detonation takes 11 frames. Throw takes 23 frames. Bombs have 60~ HP.
Interesting Notes: Link can infinitely recover with bombs it seems. Throw them down and blow them up, that's all it takes, you can also zdrop-detonate. Bombs can take roughly 60 damage before exploding on their own. Bombs can't be blown up in someone else's hands. Link's dtilt can't meteor anymore (dunno if it could in 4, could in melee). Link can shorthop bair and double jump, but cannot shorthop nair and double jump.

Other bits of info found about the new remote bombs (you can check the full conversation between JohnKnight416 JohnKnight416 and Bakasama in the thread i've linked above):


Infinite horizontal recovery huh? Definitetly a buff :p
A user here created this wonderful thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ad-training-mode-tested.464174/#post-22768840

The info so far:
:ultlink:
Nair: 6 frames
Fair: 11 frames
Bair: 6 frames
Uair: 14 frames
Dair: 19 frames
Fullhop height: 3 stage units
Shorthop height: 1.5 stage units
Bomb stats: Pull takes 39 frames. Detonation takes 11 frames. Throw takes 23 frames. Bombs have 60~ HP.
Interesting Notes: Link can infinitely recover with bombs it seems. Throw them down and blow them up, that's all it takes, you can also zdrop-detonate. Bombs can take roughly 60 damage before exploding on their own. Bombs can't be blown up in someone else's hands. Link's dtilt can't meteor anymore (dunno if it could in 4, could in melee). Link can shorthop bair and double jump, but cannot shorthop nair and double jump.

Other bits of info found about the new remote bombs (you can check the full conversation between JohnKnight416 JohnKnight416 and Bakasama in the thread i've linked above):


Infinite horizontal recovery huh? Definitetly a buff :p
It's good to know Link got landing lag reductions in Nair/Bair/Fair unlike we initially thought. Link's Dtilt could meteor in SSB4 but it was so impractical it didn't matter. My concern about Link's bomb recovery is getting stage spiked near the stage. IMO I'd still rather have Link's old bombs and tether.
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
There was a problem fetching the tweet

Some nice Link combos, tested in Training Mode.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,963
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
There was a problem fetching the tweet

Some nice Link combos, tested in Training Mode.
Could Mario have airdodged out of those? In the past someone posted a video vs Marth and said Marth ADed out of Dthrow. I know it registers as a combo in training but that hasn't been completely accurate in the past for if something's escapable.
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
Could Mario have airdodged out of those? In the past someone posted a video vs Marth and said Marth ADed out of Dthrow. I know it registers as a combo in training but that hasn't been completely accurate in the past for if something's escapable.
Honestly not sure anymore. I'm desperate to find new footage.
 

JohnKnight416

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
297
NNID
Reddemonknight
There was a problem fetching the tweet

Some nice Link combos, tested in Training Mode.
Been waiting a while to find some Link combo footage for Smash Ultimate. Time to start taking some notes
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
Been waiting a while to find some Link combo footage for Smash Ultimate. Time to start taking some notes
Just hoping these aren't able to be airdodged out of, knowing the somewhat useless combo counter. Also, I remember you from YT. We've talked before.
 

JohnKnight416

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
297
NNID
Reddemonknight
Just hoping these aren't able to be airdodged out of, knowing the somewhat useless combo counter. Also, I remember you from YT. We've talked before.
Really? It must've been awhile since we came in contact with each other on Youtube. Anyways, it's nice to meet you again.

Are you suggesting the combo counter in the Smash Ultimate still isn't totally accurate like Smash 4's training room?
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
Really? It must've been awhile since we came in contact with each other on Youtube. Anyways, it's nice to meet you again.

Are you suggesting the combo counter in the Smash Ultimate still isn't totally accurate like Smash 4's training room?
From what I've seen, the combo counter isn't always the most effective thing at noticing what combos are real or not. Not sure if that's a problem here, but we should just stay aware.

I was mostly concerned with if the combos were potentially able to be escaped, but it doesn't look like that's the case with most of them.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,963
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
This is based on past games and it could be fixed in SSBU. But if it acts like before, there are 2 reasons why training's combo counter vs CPUs isn't reliable. 1 airdodges are the fastest thing you can do out of hitstun so mashing dodge makes what would be combos into 50/50 reads. 2 CPUs aren't DIing properly. In SSB4 :4zelda: could DI up out of Link's jab x3 combo and Fair him in the face; it was a big reason why that MU wasn't more in Link's favor than +1.

If Link still has Dthrow combos that's huge. Instead of a measly 7% he gets 25% by Usmashing after Dthrow and Uair at kill %s, usually 110-140%ish. Because the rock/paper/scissors system in smash getting good reward off grabs is a big boon. :4bowser: is upper mid tier because his stupidly OP throw combo killing everyone at 80%. But most characters have lost their throw combos in SSBU so it would not surprise me if Link only has 50/50s at low-mid %s.

I can only work with the info I'm given but Link might be better than I thought with lowered landing lag on N/B/Fair and grab combos. The former seems likely. However, he still lacks certain tools like a quick GTFO jab/Nair and has mostly the same slow frame data. He's going to get abused hard in disadvantage and out-buttoned by most of the cast still. I don't see him breaking the glass ceiling into high tier.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
All these Link combos, plus his array of equipment will make him great indeed.
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
Just look at this.

Link's bomb recovery is looking pretty good!

I also learned of Link's attributes from Kurogane Hammer...and...they're at least better. Run speed isn't bottom 10 anymore, although 63rd, and he's a little bit faster than Ike now. Air speed seems to be close to what Toon Link's was in Smash 4, and weight is the same.

And finally, Young Link's speed was definitely overhyped. Toon Link is faster than him on both the ground and in the air.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
1,057
Nintendo's making me want to play all the Links in Ultimate. They did good. In Smash 4, half the characters I wanted to like needed something extra to make their kit work and felt off because of it. Link felt like he lacked a good enough something, whether that was frame data, range or projectiles that did what I needed them to (admittedly I'm used to Toon Link, so I'm a bit biased toward that version of the projectiles). Now we get some speed, a return hitbox on boomerang, and more sword range to make his frame data make sense. Most of the rest of the cast seems to have gotten similar treatment or, at the worst, gotten tradeoffs so their gameplay is at least more interesting even if they aren't good. Each Link and every other character I have liked playing at some point in the past looks fun, so I'm happy.

I've always struggled with adult Link's "sword wielder who uses projectiles sometimes" style, though. I think the new boomerang will help with that. Oddly that's the change I'm most excited about, even with all the cool new bomb tricks.
 

Ryu_Ken

Ace Adventurer and Truth Seeker
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
3,281
Location
Texas
NNID
Sorastar9
3DS FC
4725-8061-1333
More important stuff from Bakasama's thread:
:substitute:Items
Items can now be picked up with tilts.
Items can still be picked up in every other way (dash attack, aerial, airdodge)
Items picked up with the grab button midair do not initiate an airdodge (as per usual)
You can still boost toss by throwing out of jumpsquat.
You can interrupt dodge rolls on frame 1 or 2 by throwing an item.
You can interrupt neutral airdodge on frame 1 or 2 by throwing an item
(this actually lets you be invincible for 1 frame)
You cannot interrupt directional airdodges with item throws (rip AGT)
I bolded the points that stuck out the most. Not sure if throwing out of dodge roll is useful, but throwing out of air dodge could have some interesting situational use. Glide Toss is back of course, but we can also pick up items with tilts, which means we'll have more ways to mix up how we pick up items...
Which is a weird phrase to say. :upsidedown:
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,963
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
I farmed global nemesis battles in XBC X and got an Ares 90 skell, which opens a lot of doors and completely outclasses my lv50 skells.

Smash stuff:
Link got a significant mobility boost from ssb4 to ultimate:
..........Run speed. Air Speed.
SSB4 1.3944........0.88
SSBU 1.534..........0.924
Take this with a grain of salt because he's about the same place in the overall list for both. In Ultimate the general power level is higher.
 

Ryu_Ken

Ace Adventurer and Truth Seeker
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
3,281
Location
Texas
NNID
Sorastar9
3DS FC
4725-8061-1333
I farmed global nemesis battles in XBC X and got an Ares 90 skell, which opens a lot of doors and completely outclasses my lv50 skells.
What are your thoughts on XBC X? I've played the first Xenoblade Chronicles, so I know about the general gameplay. However, I watched a couple hours of X and wasn't sure if I would enjoy it as much as the first game.

Smash stuff:
Link got a significant mobility boost from ssb4 to ultimate:
..........Run speed. Air Speed.
SSB4 1.3944........0.88
SSBU 1.534..........0.924
Take this with a grain of salt because he's about the same place in the overall list for both. In Ultimate the general power level is higher.
Despite nearly everyone getting the same amount of buffs in terms of movement speed, I think this will help Link a good amount. In Smash 4, an aggressive playstyle just wouldn't work for him because he didn't have the ground speed or the frame data to do it. Now that Link has significantly better frame data AND a longer sword, the tiny boost in speed will help him close the distance on his opponent a bit faster, allowing him to pressure and adopt an aggressive playstyle in Ultimate. Time will tell how the meta will develop for Link, but at least he has more options this time around.
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
There was a problem fetching the tweet

This looks very nice. Even if the opponent does shield, we have a safe grab we can use as a punish option, if they get stuck.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,963
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
From what I've heard XBC X has nothing to do with XBC; idk why they named it that. If you like open world exploration it's a must buy. Awesome alien world with lots of cool monsters and a great progress system. You eventually get big mechs called skells and have total freedom to fly around in them.

The story has the essence of a good sci-fi story but it's filled with plot holes and annoying anime cliches. The voice acting's good at least. The other weak aspect imo is the battle system. You get 'arts' that act like special moves but every battle plays out the same: you select each art in a row then wait for them to recharge.

Overall there's a ton of content and exploring is addictive. It's really fun.
Now that Link has significantly better frame data .
Did he get any frame data buffs outside landing lag?
 
Last edited:

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
There was a problem fetching the tweet

This looks very nice. Even if the opponent does shield, we have a safe grab we can use as a punish option, if they get stuck.
This too.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Definitely needs testing, but looks promising anyway.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,963
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
This too.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Definitely needs testing, but looks promising anyway.
Link could Dtilt>Fair before so that probably works. It's usually stronger to Fair for side kills or Uair for star KOs rather than use upB, which launches at a diagonal angle. UpB is f8 so if other aerials are too slow it might be an option.
 

Aetheri

W/E happens don't panic...
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
8,847
Location
ZDR
Switch FC
SW-3397-5428-2304
It seems Zero has a lot of good things to say about Link in Ultimate
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
It seems Zero has a lot of good things to say about Link in Ultimate
Oh yeah, watched that a while ago, and I'm very optimistic too! Recovery at least can be worked around, combo game seems a bit different but still present, mobility is better (especially frame 3 jumpsquat), grab is more useful and use, and he still kills early.

Dealing with crazy fast characters might be the one challenge he honestly may have, and maybe being combo food, but we'll have to see for that. Also don't want projectiles (especially Remote Bombs) turned against us.

And because you reminded me: http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/DashSpeed

Link's initial dash speed is significantly better (although about everyone's is), from a pitiful 1.3 in Smash 4 to 1.98 in Ultimate, now being above average compared to the rest of the cast. It's even faster than literally every character's in Smash 4, except for Little Mac (2.05). Explains why I thought he was crazy fast at first, but he isn't crazy slow at least.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
1,534
I watched about 4 minutes in and couldn't even finish. ZeRo's a top player but he's so off about Link's bombs. I've already said my piece and don't want to sound like a broken record.
I agree. He's clearly making an analysis on the top of his head here and that's a bit annoying tbh. His analyses in general don't have much structure or substance, seems like he's just throwing info around almost randomly.

About the remote bombs, he's just saying things that could also apply to the old bombs as well:
''It actually helps you recover''
''you can combo out of it''
''you can put pressure with an item, something Link didn't have before''
(what the actual ****?)

He almost forgot to talk about edgeguarding/kill potential until the gameplay video reminded him... and that's one of the major aspects and arguably the best thing about the remote bombs. This is my opinion based on what i know but the knockback is the biggest buff, dmg is almost exactly the same, blast radius is bigger but it seems to compensate for the fact that you have to manually detonate (i guess it's situational, the radius is definetly better against airborne opponents and is good for mind games/stage control), same for recovery it has pros and cons so it's hard to classify 100% as a buff (the mechanic being so different from the old bomb jump it's also hard to compare the 2 objectively).

Anyways, he may be a top player but M2K and Pushblock are waaaaay better analysts imo.
 
Last edited:

Rocketjay8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
370
Do Link mains use the hylian shield for blocking projectiles alot or do they forget it exists?
 
Last edited:

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
More bomb recovery testing.

Once again, it really works, as long as you can tech it. The only worry I have is having to deal with opponents intercepting the bomb, but maybe that won't be too easy anyway.

Also, I knew that was Scizor! The tag, man.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
1,534
Do Link mains use the hylian shield for blocking projectiles alot or do they forget it exists?
The Hylian shield is a bit tricky to use in a non-casual/fast pace game:
- it have his own 'hitbox', it only blocks projectiles that hits it directly and doesnt cover Link's legs (or head if he crouch) compare to regular bubble shield.
- it can't be used while airborne or while dashing
The regular shield is better in almost every situation, personally i only use the Hylian shield against Samus charged shot, Samus mains are the ones forgetting about the Hylian shield :p

Imo it's more of an easter egg.
More bomb recovery testing.

Once again, it really works, as long as you can tech it. The only worry I have is having to deal with opponents intercepting the bomb, but maybe that won't be too easy anyway.
Thx for the footage. By intercepting you mean, grabing and keeping it before knocking you off stage ? (that's a real possibility)

An opponent intercepting the bomb while you're in the air seems unlikely since the whole thing (z-drop + detonation) happens quite quickly. One dangerous thing tho could be fire based attack, Pushblock claims that fire based attacks make the bomb explode instantly (i wonder if ithe bomb explode in Link's hands if he's hit by a fire attack, that could prove to be problematic against... let's say Ridley's Plasma Breath: while trying to bomb jump you get hit by a fireball barrage and explode before being able to Z-drop... one more thing to add on the labbing list i guess :p)
 
Last edited:

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
The Hylian shield is a bit tricky to use in a non-casual/fast pace game:
- it have his own 'hitbox', it only blocks projectile that hits it directly compare to regular bubble shield.
- it can't be used while airborne or while dashing
The regular shield is better in almost every situation, personally i only use the Hylian shield against Samus charged shot, Samus mains are the ones forgetting about the Hylian shield :p

Imo it's more of an easter egg.

Thx for the footage. By intercepting you mean, grabing and keeping it before knocking you off stage ? (that's a real possibility)

An opponent intercepting the bomb while you're in the air seems unlikely since the whole thing (z-drop + detonation) happens quite quickly. One dangerous thing tho could be fire based attack, Pushblock claims that fire based attacks make the bomb explode instantly (i wonder if ithe bomb explode in Link's hands if he's hit by a fire attack, that could prove to be problematic against... let's say Ridley's Plasma Breath: while trying to bomb jump you get hit by a fireball barrage and explode before being able to Z-drop... one more thing to add on the labbing list i guess :p)
I was just thinking of moves simply knocking it away from a far distance, like the Axe, but I guess he could just detonate it before and maybe still make it.
 
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
1,057
I was just thinking of moves simply knocking it away from a far distance, like the Axe, but I guess he could just detonate it before and maybe still make it.
I almost wonder if people would be more likely to throw out a long hitbox close to where Link would have to tech to try to intercept. Would that mess the recovery up? Would you just use another bomb to try again?
 

JohnKnight416

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
297
NNID
Reddemonknight
Do Link mains use the hylian shield for blocking projectiles alot or do they forget it exists?
The Hylian Shield does indeed block projectiles, however, it isn't always consistent at blocking certain projectiles such as those that can hit Link from underneath where his legs are such as Greninja's uncharged water Shuriken. Link would have to crouch in order to block those particular projectiles and since he doesn't have a crawl, this would cause him to halt in his tracks.
It also isn't consistent at blocking projectiles that are coming from above Link head, such as Mario's Fireballs or Pikachu's Thunder Jolt. It does block these projectiles sometimes, but once again it isn't always consistent.
That was sort of the problem with Link's Hylian Shield in Smash 4. I hope that they improve it a bit in Ultimate.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,963
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
I found out there's a Darksiders 3 game, not to be confused with Dark Souls 3, lol. DS2 was a fun and pretty game, although often in a morbid way. I'd buy it but unfortunately my microwave burnt out and had to be replaced reciently so I have no extra money. Maybe for Xmas.
Do Link mains use the hylian shield for blocking projectiles alot or do they forget it exists?
I use it to stop big projectiles like Din's fire, PK Freeze and charged blasts.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
1,534
I almost wonder if people would be more likely to throw out a long hitbox close to where Link would have to tech to try to intercept. Would that mess the recovery up? Would you just use another bomb to try again?
I think it's a possibility, It might be hard to intercept a flying Link since the acceleration given by the bomb is considerable (i.e. it's based on the bomb knockback and not on coventional airspeed) and the trajectory can be altered by your SDI so, hard but not impossible to read i think. Real downside tho is that Link won't be able to airdodge until he 'snaps out' of the knockback effect so that'll leave him vulnerable (if your opponent get a good read on your trajectory/speed, you will get hit).

But from what i understand, as long as Link is not KO he can always use another bomb and try again.
I found out there's a Darksiders 3 game, not to be confused with Dark Souls 3, lol. DS2 was a fun and pretty game, although often in a morbid way. I'd buy it but unfortunately my microwave burnt out and had to be replaced reciently so I have no extra money. Maybe for Xmas.
Darksiders is a cool series, even if i'm not a fan of hack & slash, this one have a just enough adventure elements to be good. The fact that it's not completely linear in term of progression makes it better than most h&s. If you get your hands on it i would appreciate your feedback, i might consider getting it too.
 

JohnKnight416

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
297
NNID
Reddemonknight
Darksiders is a cool series, even if i'm not a fan of hack & slash, this one have a just enough adventure elements to be good. The fact that it's not completely linear in term of progression makes it better than most h&s. If you get your hands on it i would appreciate your feedback, i might consider getting it too.
Solaire confirmed to be in Smash Ultimate guys!

https://youtu.be/y6z2PBK_VhE
 
Last edited:

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,963
Location
Fascist ****Hole Of America
Darksiders is a cool series, even if i'm not a fan of hack & slash, this one have a just enough adventure elements to be good. The fact that it's not completely linear in term of progression makes it better than most h&s. If you get your hands on it i would appreciate your feedback, i might consider getting it too.
The reviews say DS3 is good but not as good as the other 2. Someone made a video recapping the story before going into the 3rd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQIHzKzOyRk
 
Top Bottom