Theory on yet unrevealed characters and the WiiU/Future Unannounced DLC Discussion

[MagiusNecros]

Both seem to always have a filler character role. But I will agree that Waluigi gets more characterization then Daisy.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Except for Waluigi having a lot of characterization while Daisy has almost none besides "I'm a tomboy" at best. Waluigi is one of the more characterized ones in the Mario series. Outside of the RPG's and Bowser(maybe the Koopalings and Jr.), few have any real characterization. Waluigi is one of the few exceptions to this.

Waluigi is quite popular due to the fact he stands out among most of the cast. Daisy is just memetic at best, and that's her catchphrase. The other has memetic taunts, has proven to be a notable jerk, is dastardly, actually sets off a full story for one of the Mario games(even if he's not the main villain) one of the only two besides Bowser to be a mid-boss in Mario Party 3(Daisy was the other, mind you), and even the fam videos that actually have him show up for jokes have his exact personality show up(like Super Mario Bros. Z) and he still shows more than Daisy. Daisy is very flat(almost as much as Mario). Waluigi is rather vibrant in comparison. Don't let the fact he never was playable or showed up in a regular platformer fool you. He is quite a notable character.

Expecting a reply, TOO BAD WALUIGI TIME WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Both seem to always have a filler character role. But I will agree that Waluigi gets more characterization then Daisy.

Characterization was the only thing mentioned previously, not their "role". Hence the term out of character. Also, Daisy is less filler since she appeared in a platformer. The spin-offs are all non-platformers, even if there's no official "main games". Miyamoto considers every game(far a few like the CD-i one and maybe some Edutainment) to be ultimately canon. Every character has a role like an actor to play, and it explains why they can all do this stuff. This is the same reason why someone like Honey Bee Queen can show up in Mario Kart. They all happen. Essentially, filler doesn't truly exist in the Mario universe. The RPG's are likely the only exceptions to this and that's because Miyamoto also didn't direct a single one. And obviously Hotel Mario, but even that still fits the series' general mold. XD

 

[alex6309]

The same character Waluigi has.

Waluigi at least has a personality with notable acts and traits. What does Daisy seriously have? I can tell you that Waluigi is greedy, a sore loser, and cocky from what he does in the games. Daisy's only consistent trait is that she's a tomboy(who wears a large puffy dress and crown most of the time)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Waluigi at least has a personality with notable acts and traits. What does Daisy seriously have? I can tell you that Waluigi is greedy, a sore loser, and cocky from what he does in the games. Daisy's only consistent trait is that she's a tomboy(who wears a large puffy dress and crown most of the time)

And an annoying voice, to be fair.

Yeah, Waluigi has some great characterization. Now, it's not severely good, but it's one of the better ones. When he beats out Mario and Luigi handily personality-wise, you know something is up. XD

 

[Ice Prince]

I'd definitely take Waluigi over Daisy ANY day.

I'd definitely enjoy him, should he turn out to be DLC material. Also on a random note--give me some Riki from Xenoblade, too. ;P

 

[C3CC]

Come on guys, Daisy sucks. She's easily the worst Mario character out there. Let's just leave her out of something as glorious as is Smash, m'kay?

 

[Aguki90]

The only thing that kill Waluigi that he appear in spin-off like Daisy. That the real problem that Waluigi have to Solve.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only thing that kill Waluigi that he appear in spin-off like Daisy. That the real problem that Waluigi have to Solve.

That would apply if it was relevant. The Mario series doesn't work that way. Miyamoto had made it clear every game is "canon". Waluigi's real issue is that he has too much mixed popularity and a very big lack of moves.

 

[Mobes]

Come on guys, Daisy sucks. She's easily the worst Mario character out there. Let's just leave her out of something as glorious as is Smash, m'kay?

I mean, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, but I think she's way better then Muppet Babies Rosalina and any of the other baby characters. Daisy is Peach + attitude, which is cool to me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, but I think she's way better then Muppet Babies Rosalina and any of the other baby characters. Daisy is Peach + attitude, which is cool to me.

I do agree she beats the other Babies(outside of the one's already in the Yoshi's Island series), but by barely much. She also started off the idea of Baby Rosalina by making the super filler Baby Daisy.

 

[C3CC]

I mean, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, but I think she's way better then Muppet Babies Rosalina and any of the other baby characters. Daisy is Peach + attitude, which is cool to me.

You're right in this one. Daisy is better than Baby Rosalina, but that's not setting the bar very high, you know. I mean, can you imagine being pested by Daisy's horrible, ear-blood inducing voice in a Smash battle? No thanks. I'm fine.

 

[Deleted member]

I do agree she beats the other Babies(outside of the one's already in the Yoshi's Island series), but by barely much. She also started off the idea of Baby Rosalina by making the super filler Baby Daisy.

Ugh, don't remind me of that abomination they call Baby Daisy. If it wasn't for the fact that they automatically park you if you are going to be last, I'd keep having her fall of cliffs and get hit by things in Mario Kart.

Anyway, is it okay if we go back to discussing actual contenders for DLC as opposed to ensemble characters that won't ever get their own game?

 

[Deleted member]

Well if Donkey Kong, Wario, Luigi, Peach, and now Toad/Toadette get to star in their own game, hopefully Daisy and Waluigi will too. And then their chances of being in Smash Bros will rise.

 

[MajorMajora]

At the very least I'd like to see Daisy/Walugi (either one would do) as a rep for the multiplayer games of Mario, like the sports and Mario Party.

 

[ShinyRegice]

At the very least I'd like to see Daisy/Walugi (either one would do) as a rep for the multiplayer games of Mario, like the sports and Mario Party.

The "sport" part of Mario games is basically covered by Peach's side special though, with the golf club and tennis racket.

 

[RODO]

I'm wanting stages more than characters lately.

 

[Naoshi]

I'm wanting stages more than characters lately.

I feel exactly the same way ever since the 3DS game first came out. The character roster is great (and even greater with Mewtwo!) but I really just wish for more stage content. In terms of returning content, there's a lot of 64/Melee stages I really miss.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

The "sport" part of Mario games is basically covered by Peach's side special though, with the golf club and tennis racket.

That's her side smash. >_>

I think Bowser Jr.'s side special does a good job of giving the Kart series some moveset repping. Though it has yet to be done cohesively.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The reason I belive Waluigi makes a much better contender than Daisy:

When you add Daisy to the lineup, who does it give us for Mushroom Kingdom representation? Three princesses, two Marios, two bowsers, and Luigi.
Having three princesses does not accuratey portray what Mushrom Kingdom is about. Whereas, four plumbers, with distinct polarizations, that is much moreof a play off of Mario, the initial hero of Nintendo.

 

[Rajikaru]

Daisy doesn't come from Mushroom Kingdom, so that point is totally moot.

 

[3D Dillon]

If DLC news is too disappointing to you,
check my new support thread for a Project M Sequel.
http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-sequel-support-thread.383663/

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

IMO, the only necessary Mario character left to be included in a Smash game is Toad.

 

[Deleted member]

The reason I belive Waluigi makes a much better contender than Daisy:

When you add Daisy to the lineup, who does it give us for Mushroom Kingdom representation? Three princesses, two Marios, two bowsers, and Luigi.
Having three princesses does not accuratey portray what Mushrom Kingdom is about. Whereas, four plumbers, with distinct polarizations, that is much moreof a play off of Mario, the initial hero of Nintendo.

Yes, but don't you think it would have been quite harmless and yet very charming if Daisy were an alt of Peach? She sort of already is; I just want it to be official. I don't see how anybody can really get upset by that.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Yes, but don't you think it would have been quite harmless and yet very charming if Daisy were an alt of Peach? She sort of already is; I just want it to be official. I don't see how anybody can really get upset by that.

I just think it'd be weird to see daisy floating, pulling out toads and throwing vegetables

 

[Rajikaru]

I just think it'd be weird to see daisy floating, pulling out toads and throwing vegetables

To be fair, the same argument could be applied when you consider one of the Koopalings morphing into Shadow Mario and painting the screen.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

To be fair, the same argument could be applied when you consider one of the Koopalings morphing into Shadow Mario and painting the screen.

That's not incredibly out of character though, It's not too much of a stretch to assume they could do that with the paintbrush in possesion

 

[Rajikaru]

That's not incredibly out of character though, It's not too much of a stretch to assume they could do that with the paintbrush in possesion

Not really, and the point is I'm playing Devil's Advocate but it wouldn't be too out of place for a character like Daisy to be an alt of Peach when we have the Koopalings being an alt of Bowser Jr., considering how Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings have no actual relations outside of being small Bowser offsprings. Meanwhile, Daisy is literally just a recolour of Peach in all of her appearances, with a more fleshed out character. I wouldn't complain if she were added as an alt. model for Peach with her own recolours like the two WFTs or Olimar and Alph, but I'm not complaining that she's just referenced as a Peach alt colour, which is more than some characters get (cough Metal Sonic/Tails/Knuckles/Silver).

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Not really, and the point is I'm playing Devil's Advocate but it wouldn't be too out of place for a character like Daisy to be an alt of Peach when we have the Koopalings being an alt of Bowser Jr., considering how Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings have no actual relations outside of being small Bowser offsprings. Meanwhile, Daisy is literally just a recolour of Peach in all of her appearances, with a more fleshed out character. I wouldn't complain if she were added as an alt. model for Peach with her own recolours like the two WFTs or Olimar and Alph, but I'm not complaining that she's just referenced as a Peach alt colour, which is more than some characters get (cough Metal Sonic/Tails/Knuckles/Silver).

The thing is though, she isn't just a recoloured peach like most people think, her entire personality is completely different from peach. Daisy wouldn't slap people, she wouldn't hit people with her butt or throw turnips or use a parasol or throw hearts above her or spin with ribbons or produce rainbows or dance to produce peaches and put people to sleep

 

[Rajikaru]

The thing is though, she isn't just a recoloured peach like most people think, her entire personality is completely different from peach. Daisy wouldn't slap people, she wouldn't hit people with her butt or throw turnips or use a parasol or throw hearts above her or spin with ribbons or produce rainbows or dance to produce peaches and put people to sleep

By that logic, Peach's moveset should only be floating and throwing turnips. She never uses hand-to-hand combat in-game, and she has a much more flirtatious personality in Smash than in the Super Mario series. Characters don't have to abide by what games constrict them (ESPECIALLY considering the only actual canon to the Mario "storyline" game Daisy appeared in came out almost 20 years ago).

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

By that logic, Peach's moveset should only be floating and throwing turnips. She never uses hand-to-hand combat in-game, and she has a much more flirtatious personality in Smash than in the Super Mario series. Characters don't have to abide by what games constrict them (ESPECIALLY considering the only actual canon to the Mario "storyline" game Daisy appeared in came out almost 20 years ago).

Mario doesn't really have a canon, there's no reason to believe the other games aren't

 

[Rajikaru]

Mario doesn't really have a canon, there's no reason to believe the other games aren't

Yea there is. Spin-off sports/racing/party games are the only games that Daisy appears in that wasn't Super Mario Land, where she was the damsel instead of Peach. Never appeared in an actual "canon to Mario story" game like Galaxy 1 or 2, Sunshine, 64, the 3 SMBs, the NSMB series, Super Mario World, and what have you.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Yea there is. Spin-off sports/racing/party games are the only games that Daisy appeared in that wasn't Super Mario Land, where she was the damsel instead of Peach. Never appeared in an actual "canon to Mario story" game like Galaxy 1 or 2, Sunshine, 64, the 3 SMBs, the NSMB series, Super Mario World, and what have you.

But what I'm saying is, nothing about the spin-off games directly contradict the platformers, so it isn't crazy to think they could be canon. Ignoring mario and sonic, smash and paper mario

 

[Rajikaru]

But what I'm saying is, nothing about the spin-off games directly contradict the platformers, so it isn't crazy to think they could be canon. Ignoring mario and sonic, smash and paper mario

They aren't part of the canon games though. That's the problem. Just because something doesn't contradict the actual canon series doesn't mean it's not a spin-off.

Even though there's no actual canon story.

The point I'm trying to make is who cares if Daisy uses the same particles and moves as Peach? She's a princess, like Peach, has the same build, and just because she's a tomboy doesn't mean anything. If you wanted to stretch it so far she could even be made into a clone, but would anybody really be complaining that Daisy is attacking Luigi with her butt?

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

They aren't part of the canon games though. That's the problem. Just because something doesn't contradict the actual canon series doesn't mean it's not a spin-off.

Just cause something is a spin-off doesn't mean it's not canon. Until it's actually confirmed I'd like to think that they would be canon, especially since they often use places seen in the main mario games anyway

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Spin-offs have nothing to do with canon. In fact, they very often are canon. Plus, the only story officially called non-canon is Super Mario Galaxy 2's. Miyamoto's implications are that the other games are a normal part of their lives as is. They actually are supposed to be canon. The RPG's may be an exception and be a completely separate set of stories.

Likewise, who freaking cares? Daisy is fine. It doesn't matter if she stopped appearing in platformers. The genre is clearly not relevant. What was relevant to Sakurai was their relative interesting traits. That's how he chose Rosalina before Toad, one of the most important characters in the Mario series.

And fyi, Peach has slapped before. It's called Super Mario RPG, where she has those exact attacks. It's also the only game where Mario can throw out a huge amount of fireballs at once outside of Smash, very likely inspiring the Mario Finale. We know for a fact Sakurai pays attention to the spin-offs as is. There is no reason to think he actually cares about which are spin-offs or not. There's a reason Waluigi is an AT, because he's notable regardless of his "canon" status(which for the record, he's part of the normal Mario canon according to Sakurai. Now, there is a reason to believe he might not be a fan of him, but that's only due to the fact that e's one of the few characters outside the RPG-specific ones to have zero Platformer appearances. And even Papre Mario 2 referenced Waluigi in a special costume color. By comibining the Luigi and Wario colors. Which is pretty appropriate for a guy who is named after Wario and Luigi's own combined name).

 

[Rajikaru]

Again, the point I was trying to make was that it doesn't matter what the canon is, would people really be up in arms about Daisy being a Peach alt, or even a Peach clone? Probably not. Hopefully not, anyways.

Also FYI Waluigi's name comes from the japanese term Warui being a portmanteau with Luigi. It being similar to Wario is just coincidence.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Huh, missed another message earlier; Rosalina was never considered a Princess. I think it's implied she's a Goddess or Queen at best.

And I never talked about Waluigi's name origins, I said that the Wario and Luigi colors combined into Waluigi, which makes sense, since their name combination can create the name Waluigi. When they created Paper Mario 2, they simply did a fun joke on the name combination. Since Yellow and Green do not create Purple/Blue in any real color spectrum.

Considering anybody who didn't really know the Warui thing, it's not hard to believe some thought Waluigi was just a Wario + Luigi combo name. I even thought that at first till I knew the truth.

 

[Rajikaru]

It is true that it's likely part of why he's considered Wario's partner in crime, but I just wanted to clear it up so nobody made the mistake that it's just because he's a combination of Wario and Luigi.

Also for all intents and purposes Rosalina could be considered the Princess/Queen of the Universe since she is basically a Goddess (in more than ways than one if you're picking up what i'm putting down) (she's a babe is what i'm putting down)

 

[pupNapoleon]

I find it disturbing that people don't consider these two potential veterans. Just because they shared a roster slot with Charizard, doesn't mean they weren't full characters of their own.

I make this argument constantly.
They are both in fact, not only more "deserving" than Wolf or Lucas, but would unquestionably sell better.
The single weak point to them is that one cannot get in without the other.

Daisy doesn't come from Mushroom Kingdom, so that point is totally moot.

You quite clearly miss the point, in that she would be from the Mario universe, which I generalized as 'Mushroom Kingdom' because of the symbol. Rosalina is not from it either.