Theory on yet unrevealed characters and the WiiU/Future Unannounced DLC Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ah, i didn't know about that Commander Video trophy. Also, didn't Ubisoft supply the models to Nintendo too? Thats what i heard at least. I would think Ubi supplying the model would also help Rayman getting DLC (if DLC actually happens) since Nintendo wouldn't have to spend time making a model for the game.

Sakurai asked for a picture, they gave out a model. Weird.

There's at least the model groundwork done, but actually turning him into a full character is going to take more than a model. It's going to take ideas, time, and lots of work.

 

[Ivander]

TL;DR post. How do you do spoilers?

IMHO, the only ones at the moment that can be considered true possibilities are Lucas and Wolf, and that's mostly because they could work on the Brawl models to work for Smash 4, where Sakurai's "It's hard to port stuff from Melee." sentence doesn't have any effect(or whatever that word I'm looking for is) and if you think about Sakurai commenting that he does not like to cut characters. With Lucas and Wolf, they are Nintendo-property unlike Snake and most likely won't have issues with the 3DS unlike Ice Climbers. Otherwise, when you look at characters who haven't had a past Smash appearance, it's hard to know which ones are actually possible and which ones are not.

Like despite people saying that Isaac may have a chance due to Golden Sun not having any trophies or Isaac not being an Assist Trophy anymore, you can't exactly call him an actual possibility. For all we know, Nintendo isn't even thinking about him once or don't think he is unique enough. We may say Isaac has a 50% chance, but to Nintendo, he could be a 0% chance for all we know.
With Lucas and Wolf, since they were past characters, Nintendo had to think about them at one point during development(especially if one looks back at Gematsu and what it said about Ness & Lucas) and with DLC, Nintendo would most likely look back on them again to see if they should be DLC or not. Heck, with Star Fox Wii U in development and looking back at E3's little Robot Chicken skit mentioning Mother 3, it wouldn't be surprising if Lucas and Wolf were used for promoting a possible Mother 3 VC release and Star Fox Wii U, which a lot of people have been thinking as a possibility for the Inklings and Splatoon.

But I guess that's the beauty of waiting to see what they may do for DLC. After all, even if characters like Dixie and Isaac aren't guarantees, it feels so exciting if they possibly do get announced. Heck, the fact that it works for even for the more obscure characters makes it even more exciting, whether it'd be a classic character or modern character.
Or at least that's my opinion. Maybe somebody else thinks differently. But regardless to me, the kind of person who really doesn't care about which characters get in and is excited for any announced character, whether they be a classic, an unknown modern or a familiar face, only the thought of another DLC character happening is where my hype rises and all I hope is that Mewtwo is not the only one.

That being said, I must be the only one who hopes for DLC costumes and character costumes. I think I was spoiled by the Koopaling and Alph costumes, despite them not being separate characters. Like if Lucas becomes a character again, Kumatora would be an interesting costume for Lucas. And I'm also hoping for possibly a Felix or Matthew costume for Isaac.
Also, looking at the fact they almost made Lucina a Marth costume, I think Priam(Paris) and Morgan(Mark) would be obvious DLC character costumes for Ike and Robin. Heck, Fire Emblem could really benefit from character costumes, due to a good number of characters having similar builds and fighting styles to the current characters. Marth is pretty much the model for Leif, Eliwood(before promoting) and Eirika(before promoting). Lucina could work for Seliph(and ironic as well). Robin could work for Katarina. And if you found a way to "replace" Ike's fire effects, he could work for any Hero character who uses a big sword.

As for Roy and Lyn, while I know alot are asking for them, I feel their best bet is if Intelligent Systems does a remake for FE6+7 around Smash 5's time. Considering how successful Awakening was, that FE7 already has the Tactician and that they could dp the children thing through FE7->FE6, I wouldn't be surprised if they did a FE6-FE7 remake at some point. Heck, they wouldn't need to worry about removing Robin's moveset and use that for the new Tactician and even keep Robin as an Alt for them. An FE6-7 remake sounds rather likely, but when it will happen is another story. But if it were to happen shortly before the new Smash is announced, that would likely be Roy and Lyn's best chance at becoming characters for Smash again.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

The trophies may exists because Ubisoft kept pestering Nintendo to include Rayman in Smash (which was rumored by a credible person long before we knew of Rayman's trophy). The trophies are could be used as a something to throw a bone for and that's it. I don't think the trophies should be used as strong evidence that Rayman's gonna be in the game, if they really wanted him to be DLC, they probably won't have any issue including his trophies with his DLC. He isn't the only third party character with a trophy in Smash, Commander Video from Bit Trip has a trophy as well.

He has a better chance than most third parties due to his trophies though (meaning Nintendo was willingly to reference Rayman a bit), but I don't think his chances are as high as some people may think. This isn't to say he won't be in, I think there's some slight possibility, but I think we should take the trophies' inclusions with a grain of salt now.

Although, rayman got 3 trophies. Him, globox and barbara. They seem to be entirely original models and sakurai claimed that ubisoft just gave them to them to put in the game. I dunno, this is a little strange

 

[Rythmic]

Although, rayman got 3 trophies. Him, globox and barbara. They seem to be entirely original models and sakurai claimed that ubisoft just gave them to them to put in the game. I dunno, this is a little strange

Exactly. And for all we know Ubisoft could have rigged them so that Nintendo doesn't have to. That'd make animating them a whole lot easier since they'd have armature straight out of the box. Although, we can't really tell if they are rigged or not as they're just forever solid statues right now... But one can dream!

 

[Wheelie]

Sakurai asked for a picture, they gave out a model. Weird.

There's at least the model groundwork done, but actually turning him into a full character is going to take more than a model. It's going to take ideas, time, and lots of work.

You mean MISTER Sakurai asked for a picture, don't you?

 

[Naoshi]

Although, rayman got 3 trophies. Him, globox and barbara. They seem to be entirely original models and sakurai claimed that ubisoft just gave them to them to put in the game. I dunno, this is a little strange

Er, of course the models are original. They were handdrawn in their recent games. Ubisoft did it out of kindness. It's not really that suspicious.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You mean MISTER Sakurai asked for a picture, don't you?

Unless Sakurai suddenly turned female, same difference.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Er, of course the models are original. They were handdrawn in their recent games. Ubisoft did it out of kindness. It's not really that suspicious.

Out of kindness? Really? We are talking about ubisoft here

 

[Naoshi]

Out of kindness? Really? We are talking about ubisoft here

Yeah, except the guys that made the Rayman games are huge Nintendo fans. Ubisoft is not a hivemind lol

I mean, they probably didn't do it out of kindness, but it's silly to rule out that possibility.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Yeah, except the guys that made the Rayman games are huge Nintendo fans. Ubisoft is not a hivemind lol

I mean, they probably didn't do it out of kindness, but it's silly to rule out that possibility.

I just find it weird that they'd make models and just give them to another company to use in their game

 

[Rythmic]

Soooooo then Rayman DLC: Quite possible?

 

[rhysmorgan]

Soooooo then Rayman DLC: Quite possible?

I'd say it's more possible than any other third party addition right now.

 

[TheMovieMagicCrewMember]

I'd love to see some old characters like Roy return mainly because of the much better character balance in Smash 4. It would be real neat to finally be able to play Roy instead of Marth, and still have a chance in a tournament.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

In high demand, could easily be brought back, first party, a villain, bad***, and is an iconic Nintendo character and All Star.
I'd say Wolf has the best chance.

 

[TheMovieMagicCrewMember]

What do you guys think of Cory Baxter's chances of making it as a DLC character?
I found this while browsing, but i'm not sure what to make of it.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

What do you guys think of Cory Baxter's chances of making it as a DLC character?
I found this while browsing, but i'm not sure what to make of it.

What the heck?

 

[PSIBoy]

What do you guys think of Cory Baxter's chances of making it as a DLC character?
I found this while browsing, but i'm not sure what to make of it.

Who is Cory Baxter, and are you sure the article isn't fake?

 

[Naoshi]

What the heck?

Wolf gets replaced by Cory Baxter, retaining all of his original movesets. :^)

Who is Cory Baxter, and are you sure the article isn't fake?

It's real. Nintendo owns Cory in the House that's why Solid Snack is in it teaching him how to do CQC.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

What do you guys think of Cory Baxter's chances of making it as a DLC character?
I found this while browsing, but i'm not sure what to make of it.

This is awesome! Technically this can live on you just gotta put "...as a Mii" at the end

More concerned with stages than characters as they would seem to be easier to port anyway. Mario Kart I can see having a lot of DLC characters because other than some weight difference, they're basically player skins. Here while it's possible I wouldn't want to give a "pay to win" vibe if the DLC characters are especially good. But new stages were practically guaranteed when Kongo Jungle 64 was revealed as the only n64 stage - more have to be coming.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Wolf gets replaced by Cory Baxter, retaining all of his original movesets. :^)


.

Can't let you do that.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...ayer-smash-originally-planned-for-melee-more/

Well looks like they just started on Mewtwo and they have made preparations for more DLC characters,but haven't announced any yet.

 

[Rajikaru]

Well looks like they just started on Mewtwo and they have made preparations for more DLC characters,but haven't announced any yet.

"“For now, only the distribution of Mewtwo is decided. Other than that is undecided.”

That doesn't mean "Yeah we're gonna add more DLC characters", that means they're still thinking about even adding any.

 

[Nekoo]

Strange ... I don't think Wolf as an DLC ... I think Isaac have more chance , Camelot 20th anniversairy , All Of his universe erased , just some music ... Look Like the reverse version Of Mewtwo ( when we had his trophy and people was saying " lol trophy no Mewtwo " we know the rest Of the Story ...) but here we have a universe erased , sound VERY suspicious

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Strange ... I don't think Wolf as an DLC ... I think Isaac have more chance , Camelot 20th anniversairy , All Of his universe erased , just some music ... Look Like the reverse version Of Mewtwo ( when we had his trophy and people was saying " lol trophy no Mewtwo " we know the rest Of the Story ...) but here we have a universe erased , sound VERY suspicious

I'm pretty sure that they're highly considering Wolf for DLC, Considering the Namco team and apparently Sakurai really like Wolf, I think they'd bring him back, so if there's any DLC I'd bet on, its Wolf. Plus as a bonus he could promote Star Fox U, veteren comes back into smash, promotes new Wii U game, win win. So the likelihood of Wolf DLC 10/10(9/10 at the minimum). The fact that Wolf could be a promotion for a new game on top of his veteran status makes him a good pic, not to mention the developers and Sakurai apparently really like him.
Isaac has a good shot for being a newcomer, yet he would take more time than a veteran. Though his chances are good
8/10.

 

[Mobes]

I'd like reinforce the Rayman DLC hype in this thread. I sure hope that he gets considered as a new character, if new characters are considered. Further possibility of a Rayman stage (I'd presume take place in Teensies in Trouble / Toad Story from Legends) with music taken out of various Rayman games.. soo good

 

[eltacoenojado]

I'd like reinforce the Rayman DLC hype in this thread. I sure hope that he gets considered as a new character, if new characters are considered. Further possibility of a Rayman stage (I'd presume take place in Teensies in Trouble / Toad Story from Legends) with music taken out of various Rayman games.. soo good

I'd love this. Rayman was my most wanted third party character, and I love the music from his games too!

 

[kylexv]

I feel like if there are going to be more characters for DLC, the most likely are Wolf, Lucas, Ice Climber(s), and Rayman. I am really hoping for Ice Climbers, even if it is just Popo.

 

[Rajikaru]

Ice Climber(s),

Unless Sakurai magically invents a new 3DS processor that can be downloaded via patches to actually allow the ICs to be played on 3DS, that's a big fat no.

Also Wolf and Lucas are pretty much 90% not likely as their moves are already parts of other characters' customs (Lucas' entire moveset and part of Wolf's), making actually adding them redundant unless they were reinvented from the bottom up.

 

[PSIBoy]

Unless Sakurai magically invents a new 3DS processor that can be downloaded via patches to actually allow the ICs to be played on 3DS, that's a big fat no.

Also Wolf and Lucas are pretty much 90% not likely as their moves are already parts of other characters' customs (Lucas' entire moveset and part of Wolf's), making actually adding them redundant unless they were reinvented from the bottom up.

Special moves... Not normal moves... What truly sets them apart. And anyway online (FF and FG) you can't even use customs of any kind, so on online (FF and FG) it would not be redundant.

 

[Deleted member]

I find it disturbing that people don't consider these two potential veterans. Just because they shared a roster slot with Charizard, doesn't mean they weren't full characters of their own.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Unless Sakurai magically invents a new 3DS processor that can be downloaded via patches to actually allow the ICs to be played on 3DS, that's a big fat no.

Also Wolf and Lucas are pretty much 90% not likely as their moves are already parts of other characters' customs (Lucas' entire moveset and part of Wolf's), making actually adding them redundant unless they were reinvented from the bottom up.

No, Fox has wolf's side B, that's it. And while ness has all of lucas's, lucas can have ness's. Mario and Luigi switch fireballs in their customs, I don't see why ness and lucas can't

 

[Rajikaru]

My point still stands. What makes Mewtwo special is that it was the only completely original character (bar Snake who was kept out for other reasons) to be removed from the game. Lucas and Wolf were both basically clones, as much as I preferred them over Ness and Fox respectively. Bringing back clones unless they somehow completely redesigned them, even if they have unique smash attacks, would be a waste of manpower. This is even if they add more DLC characters besides Mewtwo, because it's still a "more likely that they won't than they will" situation.

Also Fox's reflector is basically Wolf's reflector anyways, Fox has a custom special neutral B that only shoots once before putting the gun away (the only difference being that as far as I know, his blaster doesn't do contact damage like Wolf's). I mean, hell, Fox lost his purple palette to gain a palette that basically makes him Wolf.

Rayman, I have high doubts he'll be added, but that's just because he isn't very special like the other third-party characters. Of course I'm not standing by my statement because he has a small chance of being added, but I'd rather see, say, a sony representative like Crash Bandicoot that's pretty much dead be brought back than Rayman, who's probably at one of the highest points of his video game career what with the two most recent Rayman games.

Rayman probably has the highest chances of being added, but I wouldn't be complaining if Lucas or Wolf were re-added, it's just incredibly unlikely and wouldn't be worth it like adding a completely new character IE Mewtwo would be.

 

[PSIBoy]

I find it disturbing that people don't consider these two potential veterans. Just because they shared a roster slot with Charizard, doesn't mean they weren't full characters of their own.

They are possible, it's just in the Smash Bros. fandom they aren't the most popular (plus 6 Pokemon characters already including Mewtwo) and that their main gimmick was rotation. Having all 3 pokes in the game would kind of take away from their appearance in Brawl and the only reason Charizard is in above those two is because he is far more popular than either.

My point still stands. What makes Mewtwo special is that it was the only completely original character (bar Snake who was kept out for other reasons) to be removed from the game. Lucas and Wolf were both basically clones, as much as I preferred them over Ness and Fox respectively. Bringing back clones unless they somehow completely redesigned them, even if they have unique smash attacks, would be a waste of manpower. This is even if they add more DLC characters besides Mewtwo, because it's still a "more likely that they won't than they will" situation.

Also Fox's reflector is basically Wolf's reflector anyways, Fox has a custom special neutral B that only shoots once before putting the gun away (the only difference being that as far as I know, his blaster doesn't do contact damage like Wolf's). I mean, hell, Fox lost his purple palette to gain a palette that basically makes him Wolf.

Rayman, I have high doubts he'll be added, but that's just because he isn't very special like the other third-party characters. Of course I'm not standing by my statement because he has a small chance of being added, but I'd rather see, say, a sony representative like Crash Bandicoot that's pretty much dead be brought back than Rayman, who's probably at one of the highest points of his video game career what with the two most recent Rayman games.

Rayman probably has the highest chances of being added, but I wouldn't be complaining if Lucas or Wolf were re-added, it's just incredibly unlikely and wouldn't be worth it like adding a completely new character IE Mewtwo would be.

Special moves... Not normal moves... What truly sets them apart. And anyway online (FF and FG) you can't even use customs of any kind, so on online (FF and FG) it would not be redundant.

(Sorry if I sound rude, but...) Did you even read my post? And did you even play as Ness and Fox and compare them to Lucas and Wolf? THEY PLAY NOTHING ALIKE! At worst, they are clones done properly. At best, they shouldn't even be semi-clones. Not like Dark Pit and Pit at all.

 

[kylexv]

Unless Sakurai magically invents a new 3DS processor that can be downloaded via patches to actually allow the ICs to be played on 3DS, that's a big fat no.

Did you read the rest of my post? (Sorry if I sound rude).
"I am really hoping for Ice Climbers, even if it is just Popo."

 

[Rajikaru]

That would kind of ruin the point of Ice Climbers, as clever as it would be.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

My point still stands. What makes Mewtwo special is that it was the only completely original character (bar Snake who was kept out for other reasons) to be removed from the game. Lucas and Wolf were both basically clones, as much as I preferred them over Ness and Fox respectively. Bringing back clones unless they somehow completely redesigned them, even if they have unique smash attacks, would be a waste of manpower. This is even if they add more DLC characters besides Mewtwo, because it's still a "more likely that they won't than they will" situation.

Also Fox's reflector is basically Wolf's reflector anyways, Fox has a custom special neutral B that only shoots once before putting the gun away (the only difference being that as far as I know, his blaster doesn't do contact damage like Wolf's). I mean, hell, Fox lost his purple palette to gain a palette that basically makes him Wolf.

Rayman, I have high doubts he'll be added, but that's just because he isn't very special like the other third-party characters. Of course I'm not standing by my statement because he has a small chance of being added, but I'd rather see, say, a sony representative like Crash Bandicoot that's pretty much dead be brought back than Rayman, who's probably at one of the highest points of his video game career what with the two most recent Rayman games.

Rayman probably has the highest chances of being added, but I wouldn't be complaining if Lucas or Wolf were re-added, it's just incredibly unlikely and wouldn't be worth it like adding a completely new character IE Mewtwo would be.

How would it be a waste of manpower? They're both more than unique enough, are popular as shown by their high ranking on most DLC polls and they can both be used to promote something, Wolf being star fox wii u and Lucas being mother 3 (It's coming, they wouldn't joke about it if it wasn't in the works plus GBA games are on the wii u now)

 

[TheAnvil]

Unless Sakurai magically invents a new 3DS processor that can be downloaded via patches to actually allow the ICs to be played on 3DS, that's a big fat no.

Also Wolf and Lucas are pretty much 90% not likely as their moves are already parts of other characters' customs (Lucas' entire moveset and part of Wolf's), making actually adding them redundant unless they were reinvented from the bottom up.

Sakurai hasn't said anything about DLC having to be for both systems.

I guess Dark Pit doesn't exist. Oh wait he does, and custom moves mean a grand total of jack ****.

 

[Rajikaru]

I guess Dark Pit doesn't exist. Oh wait he does, and custom moves mean a grand total of jack ****.

No need for the 'Tude. Dark Pit is obviously a case of Sakurai bias, as evidenced by the 8 Koopalings being all reskins of Bowser Jr. even though they have barely anything in common especially concerning their final smash. Why Dark Pit was added over Lucas and Wolf I don't know, and I don't like it either, but that doesn't prove anything other than Sakurai really loves Kid Icarus, his series.

People need to stop taking what I said so personally. I don't like the fact that Lucas and Wolf were removed either and would love and hope to see them as DLC, but unless they're re-designed, it just isn't likely, at least from what I've gathered.

Also,

Sakurai hasn't said anything about DLC having to be for both systems.

the entire reason Ice Climbers weren't added was because they couldn't work on 3DS and Sakurai didn't want there to be differences in character rosters between console versions, and adding them as DLC for Wii U only would ruin the entire point of not having them in the first place.

 

[PSIBoy]

No need for the 'Tude. Dark Pit is obviously a case of Sakurai bias, as evidenced by the 8 Koopalings being all reskins of Bowser Jr. even though they have barely anything in common especially concerning their final smash. Why Dark Pit was added over Lucas and Wolf I don't know, and I don't like it either, but that doesn't prove anything other than Sakurai really loves Kid Icarus, his series.

People need to stop taking what I said so personally. I don't like the fact that Lucas and Wolf were removed either and would love and hope to see them as DLC, but unless they're re-designed, it just isn't likely, at least from what I've gathered.

Dark Pit was added as a last-second addition due to the fact that he was an alt that could be converted quickly while building Lucas and Wolf would take more than they had at their disposal. The majority I'm sure would rather have another character as opposed to none. And if you think that they would be better off with every single Koopaling their own character, that would be even more ridiculous Mario bias.

In short, stop blaming Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina for taking away positions for other characters. They just could be converted easily while Lucas and Wolf would require work on modeling, etc.


Also...

Fox vs Wolf

Jab: Different
F-tilt: Different
D-tilt: Never seen them used
U-tilt: Different hit boxes
F-Smash: Different
U-Smash: Different
D-Smash: Different
N-air: Different
F-air: Different
B-air: Same
U-air: Different
N-Special: No stun and fast vs stun and slow (Custom?)
F-Special: Horizontal to diagonal (Custom)
U-Special: Slow charge+charge hit box vs fast+no charge hit box (Custom)
D-Special: Different damage and speed ratios (Custom?)


Ness vs Lucas

Jab: Different
F-tilt: Different
U-tilt: Different
D-tilt: Faster vs Slower (Different animations too)
F-Smash: Slow and more power vs fast and less power
U-Smash: Different
D-Smash: Different
N-air: Different
F-air: Different
U-air: Similar, but Ness's better KO
D-air: Different
N-Special: Power vs Freeze (Custom, but terrible)
F-Special: Combo vs Spacing (Custom, but not Ness)
U-Special: Power vs Safer (Custom)
D-Special: While body vs Front+damage (Custom, but terrible)

To write out why each move is different specifically would be a waste of time, space, and energy. If you doubt me, look it up.

 

[Rajikaru]

Dark Pit was added as a last-second addition due to the fact that he was an alt that could be converted quickly while building Lucas and Wolf would take more than they had at their disposal. The majority I'm sure would rather have another character as opposed to none. And if you think that they would be better off with every single Koopaling their own character, that would be even more ridiculous Mario bias.

In short, stop blaming Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina for taking away positions for other characters. They just could be converted easily while Lucas and Wolf would require work on modeling, etc.
.

What? I'm not. I'm stating facts: Dark Pit and Pit have very few differences, not even offering differing playstyles unlike Dr. Mario/Mario and Marth/Lucina (whom I didn't even mention so I don't know where you got that idea), and the Koopalings and Alph have differences compared to Bowser Jr. that could (but shouldn't) necessitate different characters entirely, unlike Dark Pit who is just a Pit reskin with not even differences in Custom specials.

I didn't blame the lack of other clone characters on Dark Pit, Lucina, and Dr. Mario, I didn't even mention Lucina or Dr. Mario (as a matter of fact, I like using both of them and consider them good additions), like I said, unlike other clones, Dark Pit was added for small reasons (Sakurai himself said he was made a separate character because he was originally a Pit alt costume like the Koopalings but had he wanted him to have a different Final Smash and side-b), and that Wolf and Lucas are unlikely to be added, but I'd be all for them actually being added.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I never mentioned Lucina or Dr. Mario, and by association I never said they were to blame for Wolf and Lucas. I don't even know how that thought process works, as few if any people know why Wolf and Lucas were removed in the first place (especially considering Lucas' trophy is a fully-fledged Smash model trophy like the Ice Climber's and unlike Wolf's, which can at the very most hint at Wolf not even being considered as a playable character before development began), and I for one think clones are great as long as they offer differing playstyles, even if the moveset changes are minor (Wolf in Brawl was a godsend, as was Lucas). I also never said I wanted the Koopalings to be their own characters, I only brought them up because Sakurai's reasoning for making Dark Pit something more than an alt palette is ridiculous. I don't have a problem with Dark Pit being in the game otherwise.