Theory on yet unrevealed characters and the WiiU/Future Unannounced DLC Discussion

[PSIBoy]

What? I'm not. I'm stating facts: Dark Pit and Pit have very few differences, not even offering differing playstyles unlike Dr. Mario/Mario and Marth/Lucina (whom I didn't even mention so I don't know where you got that idea), and the Koopalings and Alph have differences compared to Bowser Jr. that could (but shouldn't) necessitate different characters entirely, unlike Dark Pit who is just a Pit reskin with not even differences in Custom specials.

I didn't blame the lack of other clone characters on Dark Pit, Lucina, and Dr. Mario, I didn't even mention Lucina or Dr. Mario (as a matter of fact, I like using both of them and consider them good additions), like I said, unlike other clones, Dark Pit was added for small reasons (Sakurai himself said he was made a separate character because he was originally a Pit alt costume like the Koopalings but had he wanted him to have a different Final Smash and side-b), and that Wolf and Lucas are unlikely to be added, but I'd be all for them actually being added.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I never mentioned Lucina or Dr. Mario, and by association I never said they were to blame for Wolf and Lucas. I don't even know how that thought process works, as few if any people know why Wolf and Lucas were removed in the first place (especially considering Lucas' trophy is a fully-fledged Smash model trophy like the Ice Climber's and unlike Wolf's, which can at the very most hint at Wolf not even being considered as a playable character before development began), and I for one think clones are great as long as they offer differing playstyles, even if the moveset changes are minor (Wolf in Brawl was a godsend, as was Lucas). I also never said I wanted the Koopalings to be their own characters, I only brought them up because Sakurai's reasoning for making Dark Pit something more than an alt palette is ridiculous. I don't have a problem with Dark Pit being in the game otherwise.

I figured you were one of those people who believed that the clones replaced the others considering you were complaining about Dark Pit being in the game in the first place. Frankly, I don't know where that idea comes from anyway. And considering that you were complaining about the Koopalings, I figured a) Have them as their own characters or b) Cut them from the game entirely. I thought a was more likely than b. But are you for b?

On Dark Pit, who else would've been a candidate to make a clone? The only other canidates were the Koopalings and Alph, Koopalings self-explanatory and Alph would've taken far more time than Dark Pit. There are other factors to consider: Time it would've taken for instance, they may not have had enough time to differentiate Dark Pit as much as Lucina and Dr. Mario.

 

[TheAnvil]

No need for the 'Tude. Dark Pit is obviously a case of Sakurai bias, as evidenced by the 8 Koopalings being all reskins of Bowser Jr. even though they have barely anything in common especially concerning their final smash. Why Dark Pit was added over Lucas and Wolf I don't know, and I don't like it either, but that doesn't prove anything other than Sakurai really loves Kid Icarus, his series.

People need to stop taking what I said so personally. I don't like the fact that Lucas and Wolf were removed either and would love and hope to see them as DLC, but unless they're re-designed, it just isn't likely, at least from what I've gathered.

Also,



the entire reason Ice Climbers weren't added was because they couldn't work on 3DS and Sakurai didn't want there to be differences in character rosters between console versions, and adding them as DLC for Wii U only would ruin the entire point of not having them in the first place.

Dark Pit isn't the only clone you know. The fact is that custom moves don't mean anything.

 

[Rajikaru]

I figured you were one of those people who believed that the clones replaced the others considering you were complaining about Dark Pit being in the game in the first place. Frankly, I don't know where that idea comes from anyway. And considering that you were complaining about the Koopalings, I figured a) Have them as their own characters or b) Cut them from the game entirely. I thought a was more likely than b. But are you for b?

On Dark Pit, who else would've been a candidate to make a clone? The only other canidates were the Koopalings and Alph, Koopalings self-explanatory and Alph would've taken far more time than Dark Pit. There are other factors to consider: Time it would've taken for instance, they may not have had enough time to differentiate Dark Pit as much as Lucina and Dr. Mario.

On the contrary, even though I wish bowser Jr. had alternate palettes, I have no problem with the Koopalings being his alts. I also prefer Alph over Olimar.
The only problem I have with Dark Pit is that he has no differences other than his neutral B being slower and more powerful and his side-b launching at a different angle (and the Final Smash but that's not something i really care about). I would've preferred if they had actually gave his moves different aspects to differentiate him from Palutena, maybe give him some specials that Palutena got as customs, or give his tilts and smashes having sweet spots but being slower in general. There's so much potential that Dark Pit has that's wasted bec

Dark Pit isn't the only clone you know. The fact is that custom moves don't mean anything.

Yes he is. Everybody else is a sub-clone at most. Falco, Luigi, Toon Link, and Ganondorf have completely different playstyles and at least somewhat unique specials. Lucina and Dr. Mario have different playstyles (Lucina is a combo rushdown compared to Marth's sweetspotting aggression and Dr. Mario is a stronger but slower Mario with a bigger emphasis on combos and different sweetspots but a horrible gimpable recovery), as well as minor changes to specials to make them at least a bit more unique (Lucina's Side special doesn't lift her in the air, Dr. Mario's Super Jump Punch doesn't have constant hitboxes and his side B doesn't lift him in the air, plus Dr. Tornado). Also they all have at least somewhat different custom specials. There's enough of a difference to give them a different feel and playstyle, and you can tell Sakurai and his team put a lot of love into making sure they played differently but were still just as fun. Dark Pit has a neutral b that is slower and can't turn as well but is strong, his side-b launches more horizontally than vertically, and that's it. He doesn't have differences to his tilt/smash/combo/air movesets that could give him a unique playstyle, his biggest difference is his final smash, and he has so much potential but it isn't seized. Even if they had to delay both games to make him more unique I would've been fine with it.

Again, there are so many opportunities. He could have sweetspots on his moves but they are slower over-all, or instead of the constant wall-based hitboxes and infinites he could have just hard-hitting almost-smash-like moves, or he could be slower and heavier but his moves have a larger range.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

On the contrary, even though I wish bowser Jr. had alternate palettes, I have no problem with the Koopalings being his alts. I also prefer Alph over Olimar.
The only problem I have with Dark Pit is that he has no differences other than his neutral B being slower and more powerful and his side-b launching at a different angle (and the Final Smash but that's not something i really care about). I would've preferred if they had actually gave his moves different aspects to differentiate him from Palutena, maybe give him some specials that Palutena got as customs, or give his tilts and smashes having sweet spots but being slower in general. There's so much potential that Dark Pit has that's wasted bec




Yes he is. Everybody else is a sub-clone at most. Falco, Luigi, Toon Link, and Ganondorf have completely different playstyles and at least somewhat unique specials. Lucina and Dr. Mario have different playstyles (Lucina is a combo rushdown compared to Marth's sweetspotting aggression and Dr. Mario is a stronger but slower Mario with a bigger emphasis on combos and different sweetspots but a horrible gimpable recovery), as well as minor changes to specials to make them at least a bit more unique (Lucina's Side special doesn't lift her in the air, Dr. Mario's Super Jump Punch doesn't have constant hitboxes and his side B doesn't lift him in the air, plus Dr. Tornado). Also they all have at least somewhat different custom specials. There's enough of a difference to give them a different feel and playstyle, and you can tell Sakurai and his team put a lot of love into making sure they played differently but were still just as fun. Dark Pit has a neutral b that is slower and can't turn as well but is strong, his side-b launches more horizontally than vertically, and that's it. He doesn't have differences to his tilt/smash/combo/air movesets that could give him a unique playstyle, his biggest difference is his final smash, and he has so much potential but it isn't seized. Even if they had to delay both games to make him more unique I would've been fine with it.

Again, there are so many opportunities. He could have sweetspots on his moves but they are slower over-all, or instead of the constant wall-based hitboxes and infinites he could have just hard-hitting almost-smash-like moves, or he could be slower and heavier but his moves have a larger range.

I agree it's a shame he's not the roy to pits marth but they did the most they could with the time they had, would you rather have a game with 51 characters or just 50?

 

[PSIBoy]

On the contrary, even though I wish bowser Jr. had alternate palettes, I have no problem with the Koopalings being his alts. I also prefer Alph over Olimar.
The only problem I have with Dark Pit is that he has no differences other than his neutral B being slower and more powerful and his side-b launching at a different angle (and the Final Smash but that's not something i really care about). I would've preferred if they had actually gave his moves different aspects to differentiate him from Palutena, maybe give him some specials that Palutena got as customs, or give his tilts and smashes having sweet spots but being slower in general. There's so much potential that Dark Pit has that's wasted bec

I guess we can agree on something, but there is a thing known as deadlines in not just business, but life in general. I do not know how long it would've taken to make Dark Pit more unique, but apparently they didn't have enough time I'm guessing.

I could care less about alts in general (except for one which I really want) or Alph or even the Koopalings honestly (It is honestly beyond me that they are included in Mario Kart 8 but other stars like Diddy Kong weren't (I'm not saying they replaced Diddy Kong, rather I don't know why they included them in the first place)). There could be other developments in the time it takes to program the alts. But there are a lot of people who like them, so I can tolerate them at worst.

 

[Rajikaru]

I agree it's a shame he's not the roy to pits marth but they did the most they could with the time they had, would you rather have a game with 51 characters or just 50?

Honestly, I wouldn't really call it 51 characters. I would've preferred they kept the character roster to 50 and maybe give Pit Dark Pit's unqiue specials, or took that time to make another unique move for another character, maybe a new move for one of the Mii characters. But, I'm fine with the roster as it is, even if Dark Pit's on it.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Honestly, I wouldn't really call it 51 characters. I would've preferred they kept the character roster to 50 and maybe give Pit Dark Pit's unqiue specials, or took that time to make another unique move or character. But, I'm fine with the roster as it is, even if Dark Pit's on it.

But the thing is they couldn't make another unique move or character

 

[Rajikaru]

But the thing is they couldn't make another unique move or character

I accidentally put the character thing, but I think you're under-estimating the time they spent on Dark Pit. They gave him 8 unique palettes, which in itself would probably take at least the amount of time it takes to come up with an idea for a new move or moveset. They had to model his unique final smash prop, give him the unique animations (taunts, victory poses, character select pose), have the VA record all of his lines, give him his unique animations, program in his unique Side-special model, and finally re-skin Pit's bow and arrows to match his similar.

 

[PSIBoy]

I accidentally put the character thing, but I think you're under-estimating the time they spent on Dark Pit. They gave him 8 unique palettes, which in itself would probably take at least the amount of time it takes to come up with an idea for a new move or moveset. They had to model his unique final smash prop, give him the unique animations (taunts, victory poses, character select pose), have the VA record all of his lines, give him his unique animations, program in his unique Side-special model, and finally re-skin Pit's bow and arrows to match his similar.

8 palettes is a requirement for 8 player Smash though. And they gave him unique lines, poses, taunts, and some moves. How much time do you suppose they had left afterward? Who knows, but I personally think not enough though to make more modifications considering he is not much different than Pit.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Pit/Dark Pit has like a 2% difference. Dr. Mario although mostly the same is aesthetically different alongside different properties. Marth/Lucina pretty much the same besides the whole Tip damage versus same damage everywhere. Whereas Wolf would make a huge difference because his specials had different applications and his standard moveset was completely unique to Wolf alone.

Why Wolf didn't make it is beyond me. He's probably a DLC candidate. But what you see is what you get so for now you are stuck with the clone corner. Mind you I prefer Lucina over Marth. That still doesn't change how samey the 3 are.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I accidentally put the character thing, but I think you're under-estimating the time they spent on Dark Pit. They gave him 8 unique palettes, which in itself would probably take at least the amount of time it takes to come up with an idea for a new move or moveset. They had to model his unique final smash prop, give him the unique animations (taunts, victory poses, character select pose), have the VA record all of his lines, give him his unique animations, program in his unique Side-special model, and finally re-skin Pit's bow and arrows to match his similar.

His lines were already recorded beforehand since he was a pit alt plus they share the same voice actor anyway. The victory animations were also likely different as an alt too

 

[PSIBoy]

Pit/Dark Pit has like a 2% difference. Dr. Mario although mostly the same is aesthetically different alongside different properties. Marth/Lucina pretty much the same besides the whole Tip damage versus same damage everywhere. Whereas Wolf would make a huge difference because his specials had different applications and his standard moveset was completely unique to Wolf alone.

Why Wolf didn't make it is beyond me. He's probably a DLC candidate. But what you see is what you get so for now you are stuck with the clone corner. Mind you I prefer Lucina over Marth. That still doesn't change how samey the 3 are.

Sorry if I sound rude, but did you not read what was being debated? Time constraints. That's what. Time constraints. Each clone probably took around a month: a new unique character would take a year, give or take. Veterans are easier than new characters, but they still take significantly longer than alts being converted to clones.

 

[Rajikaru]

His lines were already recorded beforehand since he was a pit alt plus they share the same voice actor anyway. The victory animations were also likely different as an alt too

But they (the victory animations) aren't for the Koopalings or Alph, so I would assume otherwise. The VA thing is possible, though all of the Koopaling lines are grunts to Bowser Jr's laugh, whereas Dark Pit has completely different phrases.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

But they (the victory animations) aren't for the Koopalings or Alph, so I would assume otherwise. The VA thing is possible, though all of the Koopaling lines are grunts to Bowser Jr's laugh, whereas Dark Pit has completely different phrases.

Because alph's don't need changing, there's nothing to change them too and there's too many koopalings whereas pit's wouldn't fit DA (Mainly the peace sign)

 

[PSIBoy]

But they (the victory animations) aren't for the Koopalings or Alph, so I would assume otherwise. The VA thing is possible, though all of the Koopaling lines are grunts to Bowser Jr's laugh, whereas Dark Pit has completely different phrases.

What use is there to Dark Pit merely grunting when Pit actually has lines? Grunt to laugh I can see, but not grunt replacing an actual line.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Sorry if I sound rude, but did you not read what was being debated? Time constraints. That's what. Time constraints. Each clone probably took around a month: a new unique character would take a year, give or take. Veterans are easier than new characters, but they still take significantly longer than alts being converted to clones.

Right. Makes me wonder about Mewtwo though. If you say a new character especially a character from Melee era. And needing to be reworked for the Brawl engine which is used as a base for the Sm4sh engine then shouldn't Mewtwo take a lot longer especially if Mewtwo has supposedly just started with development. And with Wolf he was in Brawl and is available to have a slight bit of work since Sm4sh used Brawl as a base.

And I'll also say I'm sorry if this sounds rude but I don't think padding the roster with clonesque characters for the sake of having a larger roster is something that should be done.

 

[PSIBoy]

Right. Makes me wonder about Mewtwo though. If you say a new character especially a character from Melee era. And needing to be reworked for the Brawl engine which is used as a base for the Sm4sh engine then shouldn't Mewtwo take a lot longer especially if Mewtwo has supposedly just started with development. And with Wolf he was in Brawl and is available to have a slight bit of work since Sm4sh used Brawl as a base.

And I'll also say I'm sorry if this sounds rude but I don't think padding the roster with clonesque characters for the sake of having a larger roster is something that should be done.

I am not offended by it, but there are others who are fans of those characters (Dark Pit is actually very popular in Japan, Lucina is I think one of the, if not the most popular female FE Awakening character, and some people liked Dr. Mario in Melee too) who are glad to be able to play their favorite character which is semi-unique (with the exception of Dark Pit).

By veteran I guess I should've clarified that I meant from Brawl. My bad. But yes, Mewtwo would theoretically take the same amount of time as a new character, but now the team doesn't have to worry about game modes and other stuff, only patches and DLC, they can spare more manpower (and womanpower) dedicated to those two aspects, so development of Mewtwo and other DLC releases should go quicker than before.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

My point still stands. What makes Mewtwo special is that it was the only completely original character (bar Snake who was kept out for other reasons) to be removed from the game. Lucas and Wolf were both basically clones, as much as I preferred them over Ness and Fox respectively. Bringing back clones unless they somehow completely redesigned them, even if they have unique smash attacks, would be a waste of manpower. This is even if they add more DLC characters besides Mewtwo, because it's still a "more likely that they won't than they will" situation.

Also Fox's reflector is basically Wolf's reflector anyways, Fox has a custom special neutral B that only shoots once before putting the gun away (the only difference being that as far as I know, his blaster doesn't do contact damage like Wolf's). I mean, hell, Fox lost his purple palette to gain a palette that basically makes him Wolf.


Rayman probably has the highest chances of being added, but I wouldn't be complaining if Lucas or Wolf were re-added, it's just incredibly unlikely and wouldn't be worth it like adding a completely new character IE Mewtwo would be.

Wolf is original and bad*** enough to be DLC, waste of man power? Really? Every character has its fans. Also even if they were clones, bringing them back would be even easier. Theoretically could all come back as DLC without any limitations. are both popular and highly wanted. Also the only thing Fox's "wolf" palette has in common with Wolf is the grey fur, and Mario also has Wario's overalls. Wolf is highly likely to come back, He's apparently highly liked by the Namco dev team and Sakurai, he could also promote Star Fox U, and would satisfy many fans. Plus he would fit right in with his theme being in as well as his codecs on Lylat Cruise.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The new Star Fox game is supposedly coming out in 2015 isn't it? Even though we know nothing about it.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

The new Star Fox game is supposedly coming out in 2015 isn't it? Even though we know nothing about it.

Yes, and its also coming out before Zelda U. Miyamoto said they might get another developer to help with the game.

 

[DeiSakuChris]

My point still stands. What makes Mewtwo special is that it was the only completely original character (bar Snake who was kept out for other reasons) to be removed from the game. Lucas and Wolf were both basically clones, as much as I preferred them over Ness and Fox respectively. Bringing back clones unless they somehow completely redesigned them, even if they have unique smash attacks, would be a waste of manpower. This is even if they add more DLC characters besides Mewtwo, because it's still a "more likely that they won't than they will" situation.

Also Fox's reflector is basically Wolf's reflector anyways, Fox has a custom special neutral B that only shoots once before putting the gun away (the only difference being that as far as I know, his blaster doesn't do contact damage like Wolf's). I mean, hell, Fox lost his purple palette to gain a palette that basically makes him Wolf.

Rayman, I have high doubts he'll be added, but that's just because he isn't very special like the other third-party characters. Of course I'm not standing by my statement because he has a small chance of being added, but I'd rather see, say, a sony representative like Crash Bandicoot that's pretty much dead be brought back than Rayman, who's probably at one of the highest points of his video game career what with the two most recent Rayman games.

Rayman probably has the highest chances of being added, but I wouldn't be complaining if Lucas or Wolf were re-added, it's just incredibly unlikely and wouldn't be worth it like adding a completely new character IE Mewtwo would be.

> 2014
> There's still people calling Wolf a clone

First off man, people should stop putting Wolf in the same boat as Lucas, there is no comparison to do between the two, since Wolf wasn't a clone while Lucas was between a semi-clone and his own character, making him the most unique clonish character in the Smash Bros series.

A character have 23 moves, 22 moves if you only take in count the core moveset, excluding the final smash then.

Wolf only shared his final smash with Fox, and the ideas of his specials while being inspired by those from Fox, were altered too much to be considered simple reskin and clone moves.

So does a character that have 22/23 unique moves is a clone ?
Stop nitpicking Wolf this hard on his specials, no one is freaking out that Ike and Marth both have a chargeable devastating sword move as their neutral B, nobody is complaining that both Megaman and Sonic use a "spring" recovery as their up b, no one ever said Palutena was a clone of Zelda because she haves a teleport move as her recovery like Zelda, no one is saying that Greninja and Lucario are clones because they both have a counter disappearing kick move as their down-b. (As well as having a chargeable projectile as their neutral-b).

Wolf specials are as different to Fox as much of the comparisons I have made above if you truly consider Wolf a clone, then you consider Greninja a clone of Lucario. Fact.

And we all know you don't consider Greninja a clone of Lucario, no one does, but yet apparently Wolf still have to got the unfair judgement.

And reminder that in comparison, Kirby share exactly 9 moves with Fox, but it's okay when it's Kirby apparently.

 

[Rajikaru]

Why are people still responding to what I said? At this point I'm not even saying anything in the topic.

Wolf is a clone as much as Luigi is, it all depends on what your definition of clone is. Why he was removed I don't know, and I'd love to see him back, but it's unlikely.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Luigi was only a clone in Smash 64. He's extremely different in every game beyond that and doesn't even fit a clone mold at best.

Wolf isn't even slightly a clone by any definition of the word. He shares literally two moves with Fox(Landmaster and Reflector, and the properties are still different. Adn even if you extend it somehow to his Up B and Side B, since Neutral B is too severely different, that's less than 4/5 of his moves. Seriously, how doesn't 1/5 of a character suddenly make them an actual clone? It's ludicrous if not completely pointless. Or to put it more bluntly, it maeans nobody is unique since every has at least one move that somebody else has. The term clone loses all meaning when it's applied to a highly unique character like freaking Wolf. Lucas is slightly cloney, but not that much either). and has slightly similar moves otherwise. One of his moves was taken by Fox, while all of Lucas' B moves got that treatment towards Ness. He fails the clone standard and isn't anywhere close to redundant with Fox in any possible way. He's severely unique, and also highly likely come back since he's nowhere near a clone to anyone. He's still more different than Ganondorf, who's barely a semi-clone at this point.

And yes, if Wolf is a clone of Fox, then Greninja is clearly a clone of Lucario. They have pretty much the same overall differences in comparison anyway.

And when you use a clearly delusional definitition of clone to call a very unique character one, people will reply to set you straight on how very wrong it is. You need to apply the clone term a lot more to characters who are just as different as Wolf, otherwise it makes your point more or less useless. Either apply it to more, or it comes off as extremely hypocritical and insulting to the character's extreme uniqueness. Never mind that your point holds practically zero water, and he is highly likely to come back because he is unique and popular(being even a clone by your stretching definition does not matter. Fan demand is highly taken into account for DLC, which is a major reason for Mewtwo. The only reason he has little chance of returning is if there's no more DLC characters, it's pretty much highly likely or not happening realistically). He was less relevant than Falco at the time, and still less popular of the two. Star Fox was not that relevant, just as Mother was not, which is pretty much the reason for their cuts, as that's pretty much explained by Sakurai's own interview admitting that he took out character choices because of lack of relevancy.

 

[Aguki90]

I do not see brawl vets returning, the final moments of roster preparation were spent on milking alt costumes into full-fledged clone characters nobody asked for. And then there's Smash tour... /the/ biggest waste of space on the disc by far. If the likes of Wolf and co were planned there would be more of a nod towards them than "No plans beyond Mewtwo". Who may I remind you was THE most requested returning character and was a MELEE character UNFINISHED in brawl.

Agreed. Smash Run was more fun and challenging but Smash tour is jut Pure Luck. Is MORE LUCK THAN MARIO PARTY??? Seriusly is more LUCK THAN MARIO PARTY<---OPINION!

Strange ... I don't think Wolf as an DLC ... I think Isaac have more chance , Camelot 20th anniversairy , All Of his universe erased , just some music ... Look Like the reverse version Of Mewtwo ( when we had his trophy and people was saying " lol trophy no Mewtwo " we know the rest Of the Story ...) but here we have a universe erased , sound VERY suspicious

Camelot has say nothing yet so still suspicious

Dark Pit was added as a last-second addition due to the fact that he was an alt that could be converted quickly while building Lucas and Wolf would take more than they had at their disposal. The majority I'm sure would rather have another character as opposed to none. And if you think that they would be better off with every single Koopaling their own character, that would be even more ridiculous Mario bias.

In short, stop blaming Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina for taking away positions for other characters. They just could be converted easily while Lucas and Wolf would require work on modeling, etc.


Also...

Fox vs Wolf

Jab: Different
F-tilt: Different
D-tilt: Never seen them used
U-tilt: Different hit boxes
F-Smash: Different
U-Smash: Different
D-Smash: Different
N-air: Different
F-air: Different
B-air: Same
U-air: Different
N-Special: No stun and fast vs stun and slow (Custom?)
F-Special: Horizontal to diagonal (Custom)
U-Special: Slow charge+charge hit box vs fast+no charge hit box (Custom)
D-Special: Different damage and speed ratios (Custom?)


Ness vs Lucas

Jab: Different
F-tilt: Different
U-tilt: Different
D-tilt: Faster vs Slower (Different animations too)
F-Smash: Slow and more power vs fast and less power
U-Smash: Different
D-Smash: Different
N-air: Different
F-air: Different
U-air: Similar, but Ness's better KO
D-air: Different
N-Special: Power vs Freeze (Custom, but terrible)
F-Special: Combo vs Spacing (Custom, but not Ness)
U-Special: Power vs Safer (Custom)
D-Special: While body vs Front+damage (Custom, but terrible)

To write out why each move is different specifically would be a waste of time, space, and energy. If you doubt me, look it up.

Now do a list of the new clones. You will find out that Dr. Mario is the most unique. Or ganondorf or Toon Link.
Wolf was never clone, is too damn different and Lucas was more cloney but all his Titls and air attacks were more unique compared to Ness. The clones for Smash 4... Are placeholder in my opinion.


Im gonna say right here and now!

Wolf is the NEW Mewtwo, Hands down. It far more requested than K.Rool, even veterans like IC, Lucas or even Snake.
.Almost everyone want Wolf back. (Even Myself, I really miss him.)

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well Wolf was the only Star Fox character I enjoyed playing as. And they took him out. Because I enjoyed him. Obviously.

 

[PSIBoy]

Now do a list of the new clones. You will find out that Dr. Mario is the most unique. Or ganondorf or Toon Link.
Wolf was never clone, is too damn different and Lucas was more cloney but all his Titls and air attacks were more unique compared to Ness. The clones for Smash 4... Are placeholder in my opinion.


Im gonna say right here and now!

Wolf is the NEW Mewtwo, Hands down. It far more requested than K.Rool, even veterans like IC, Lucas or even Snake.
.Almost everyone want Wolf back. (Even Myself, I really miss him.)

...your point for telling me to do another list? I knew Dr. Mario and Lucina were rather unique in playstyle, it's just that for some reason some people blame the 'clone corner' for stealing spots from other characters.

 

[MagiusNecros]

...your point for telling me to do another list? I knew Dr. Mario and Lucina were rather unique in playstyle, it's just that for some reason some people blame the 'clone corner' for stealing spots from other characters.

It has nothing to do with stealing character slots. Slots can always be added from a developer perspective. It's the fact that characters that do little to differentiate from another character with pretty much the same everything that I feel isn't right but since I'm not a developer or by extension Masahiro Sakurai, it isn't my call to make. He said that people want Dr. Mario back and that Lucina and Dark Pit are fan favorites in my Japan and I'm Japanese and it won't take as much time as a new character with a completely different playstyle since the base template for all 3 already existed in Mario, Pit, and Marth.

There isn't a space issue especially if DLC addons can be delegated to use System memory whether internal or external.

 

[PSIBoy]

It has nothing to do with stealing character slots. Slots can always be added from a developer perspective. It's the fact that characters that do little to differentiate from another character with pretty much the same everything that I feel isn't right but since I'm not a developer or by extension Masahiro Sakurai, it isn't my call to make. He said that people want Dr. Mario back and that Lucina and Dark Pit are fan favorites in my Japan and I'm Japanese and it won't take as much time as a new character with a completely different playstyle since the base template for all 3 already existed in Mario, Pit, and Marth.

There isn't a space issue especially if DLC addons can be delegated to use System memory whether internal or external.

I never said I believed that the clones stole spots: I said some people did. I know that the clones didn't steal spots, but some people got that idea. And if you read my previous posts, you'll see that I made the argument that clones take far less time than Brawl veterans, hence why they are in the game for padding.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Agreed. Smash Run was more fun and challenging but Smash tour is jut Pure Luck. Is MORE LUCK THAN MARIO PARTY??? Seriusly is more LUCK THAN MARIO PARTY<---OPINION!

That's not even opinionated, smash tour IS more luck based than mario party. Not only are your moves determined by dice rolls, but you are all assigned random trophies, with random effects. Combined with random character selection (which unlike mario party, actually makes a difference to how you're gonna handle the game), random board encounters (ridley etc), and the AI using their negative effect trophies on you before a match begins. AND TO TOP THINGS OFF, the ai then gangbangs you like the trashy attempt at artificial intelligence they are.

 

[Aguki90]

...your point for telling me to do another list? I knew Dr. Mario and Lucina were rather unique in playstyle, it's just that for some reason some people blame the 'clone corner' for stealing spots from other characters.

Im late for saying but is ok.
You don't need to do a list. I practice with Smash 4 clones CPU Compare to the original counterpart. So I know there difference and there playstayle very well. So is not necesary.

After all, I can look back for the clones for Brawl were more unique or Interesting lore.

I still find odd that Wolf was cut and yet, he got a NEW remix...Again. WHY Im the only one that there more Veterans coming after Mewtwo.

 

[PSIBoy]

Im late for saying but is ok.
You don't need to do a list. I practice with Smash 4 clones CPU Compare to the original counterpart. So I know there difference and there playstayle very well. So is not necesary.

After all, I can look back for the clones for Brawl were more unique or Interesting lore.

I still find odd that Wolf was cut and yet, he got a NEW remix...Again. WHY Im the only one that there more Veterans coming after Mewtwo.

It's cool. But I also belive that Wolf is coming as well. Lucas also has a high chance, especially if Mother 3 VC releases worldwide, and he is my most wanted character prior to Smash 4's release and after. ICs have technical limitations to bypass while Snake has legal issues. Y. Link, Roy, and Pichu I find unlikely to return since they are not that popular/franchise has a lot of reps anyway. Squirtle and Ivysaur... Squirtle has the better shot due to being more popular, but I don't know compared to other Pokemon out there. I would think that veterans would be higher priority than newcomers since Sakurai hated cutting characters.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Im late for saying but is ok.
You don't need to do a list. I practice with Smash 4 clones CPU Compare to the original counterpart. So I know there difference and there playstayle very well. So is not necesary.

After all, I can look back for the clones for Brawl were more unique or Interesting lore.

I still find odd that Wolf was cut and yet, he got a NEW remix...Again. WHY Im the only one that there more Veterans coming after Mewtwo.

You're not alone, I too think that more veterans are coming after Mewtwo, and I think Wolf is next, also
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KivwmAoIq3


https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2pabgr/so_this_hidden_palutenas_guidance_was_found_who/

 

[Stixicks]

I just want Bomberman :/

 

[ProjectAngel]

Mewtwo, right now, is basically a test to see how positively people react to Smash having DLC. Sakurai knows that people want Smash 4 to live a long life even with the already massive amount of content, but at the same time, knows that people have been jaded by many DLC practices over the past few years (not counting decisions made by some companies like Nintendo).

Most of us saw the reaction vids- Mewtwo is a heavily wanted veteran to return, and Sakurai and Nintendo know this. Sakurai did claim that they had no plans for DLC beyond Mewtwo- he and Nintendo are basically using him to gauge Smash DLC reception.

Neither he nor Nintendo are wanting to tread over what their playerbase wants. If we want to extend Smash 4's longetivity though additional DLC, we absolutely NEED to obtain Mewtwo, whether by Club Nintendo or by paying for him later on.

This also goes for all Wolf fans. I know Mewtwo isn't in your best interests, but if you want Wolf in the future...

 

[Deleted member]

Here are some of my thoughts:

I don't mind clones when I feel they are warranted. In Melee, Ganondorf as a clone of Captain Falcon is actually a pretty genius idea, seeing as how Ganondorf had never been playable before. Plus, Captain Falcon's moveset was also just made up for Smash.

Other characters make sense as clones because of who they are, like Dr. Mario, Lucina, Dark Pit, Toon Link, etc.

But I think this time, since Sakurai also introduced alternate characters which are 100% clones, people are confused as to what warranted Alph being a 100% clone but Dark Pit being a 98% clone and therefore getting a roster slot, for example.

But at the end of the day, roster slots, as we all know, don't mean a whole lot. Just play as your favorite character, whether you have to move your select icon or simply swap to it as an alt.

Oh, and for the record, I think the Bowser Jr./Koopalings concept was genius. Why they couldn't have just swapped Peach's head for Daisy's as an alt makes me sad though.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Here are some of my thoughts:

I don't mind clones when I feel they are warranted. In Melee, Ganondorf as a clone of Captain Falcon is actually a pretty genius idea, seeing as how Ganondorf had never been playable before. Plus, Captain Falcon's moveset was also just made up for Smash.

Other characters make sense as clones because of who they are, like Dr. Mario, Lucina, Dark Pit, Toon Link, etc.

But I think this time, since Sakurai also introduced alternate characters which are 100% clones, people are confused as to what warranted Alph being a 100% clone but Dark Pit being a 98% clone and therefore getting a roster slot, for example.

But at the end of the day, roster slots, as we all know, don't mean a whole lot. Just play as your favorite character, whether you have to move your select icon or simply swap to it as an alt.

Oh, and for the record, I think the Bowser Jr./Koopalings concept was genius. Why they couldn't have just swapped Peach's head for Daisy's as an alt makes me sad though.

Because daisy fighting like peach would be completely out of character

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Because daisy fighting like peach would be completely out of character

...They fight differently? Daisy never fought period. She's a tomboy, but Peach is quite sassy in Smash. All they would have to do at best is give her new voice clips and taunts. Maybe change what her Smash A weapons look like. I could see also removing some magical animations or slightly recoloring them.

Although she'd make a great clone of Wii Fit Trainer. >_>

 

[alex6309]

Because daisy fighting like peach would be completely out of character

What character does Daisy have in the first place?

 

[MagiusNecros]

What character does Daisy have in the first place?

The same character Waluigi has.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The same character Waluigi has.

Except for Waluigi having a lot of characterization while Daisy has almost none besides "I'm a tomboy" at best. Waluigi is one of the more characterized ones in the Mario series. Outside of the RPG's and Bowser(maybe the Koopalings and Jr.), few have any real characterization. Waluigi is one of the few exceptions to this.

Waluigi is quite popular due to the fact he stands out among most of the cast. Daisy is just memetic at best, and that's her catchphrase. The other has memetic taunts, has proven to be a notable jerk, is dastardly, actually sets off a full story for one of the Mario games(even if he's not the main villain) one of the only two besides Bowser to be a mid-boss in Mario Party 3(Daisy was the other, mind you), and even the fam videos that actually have him show up for jokes have his exact personality show up(like Super Mario Bros. Z) and he still shows more than Daisy. Daisy is very flat(almost as much as Mario). Waluigi is rather vibrant in comparison. Don't let the fact he never was playable or showed up in a regular platformer fool you. He is quite a notable character.