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It is because that Sakurai has officially stated that he HATES cutting characters since he knows that each character has their own fanbase. And yes, that includes the Melee clones (and Dark Pit in this game). If anything that would increase the chances of vets more than the fact that they're easier to design (Brawl vets design that is: Melee vets have to be reworked from the ground up)
I only didn't miss Young Link because Toon Link was the same thing effectively enough. If Young Link was given something new to bring him back or Toon Link was not a semi-clone, I'd be fine with both.
Same. Seriously, why should Mother get severely less now? It's understandable that Mario has the most or nearly the most since it's the main Nintendo series. But Pokemon is a fine close second, but going well over them is a bit ridiculous. Also, considering Yoshi and Wario are not actually treated as Mario characters at all(they may share a few events due to their respective character origins, but they are still clearly have their own symbols and sections among the Trophy list/etc), saying 9 Pokemon would equally Mario is just plain false. If you want to argue Mario actually has 14 due to Alts, that's at least justified enough due to the symbols and the sole fact that every Alt is outright spoken out and almost entirely treated as their "own" character. Enough to sometimes get taunts and even ending results victory screens. I can't remember if they did or not, though. I know Robin had some slightly different taunts, which proves that alone. Same with Wii Fit Trainer, who got two separate Guidances.
This is an extremely long post so I'll reply bit by bit.
Verde Coeden Scalesworth
Oops read signature as avatarDo you have the Wolf separate from the others?
So far I haven't found it, If I'm missing it please tell me.
I am afraid that everyone is biased, including yourself, and me. It's what makes the world interesting as frustrating as it can be. Be careful in the future of accusing people of things that is just human nature.
Agreed.
Actually, I believe he was intended to replace Ness, hence the similarities in special moves. But somehow they managed to cram him in there. But while I am glad both were able to be in Smash, unless Mother 3 or even Mother 1 goes worldwide/gets remaked, I guess there really isn't a lot of hope for another Earthbound/Mother character or Lucas, is there?
Iconic =/= Severely Iconic. Read what I actually said. And no, he was not more suitable than Bulbasaur by any means. He just had the slight advantage of being a middle evolution and nothing else. He had nothing size-wise to stand out as he's almost the same size as Bulbasaur as well. Their size differences are barely noticeable at all. All the 1st Gen middle evolutions for the Starters had next to no size differences, and barely any physical changes(Wartortle being the most since his changes weren't really easy to expect at all).
Brawl indeed has 5 Mario reps and Brawl would've had 7 Pokemon reps unless Pra_Mai was actually not Plusle and Minun, but we don't have enough data to go on. That's what it would be if that were the case. It still didn't reach anywhere near ten and Pichu was completely cut and not even slightly replaced in concept like Young Link was.
Neither of them have anything heavily noteworthy that makes them unique. Slippy slightly more due to his mechanical weapons/vehicles, but Leon doesn't stand out at all. Krystal has an actual thing others don't have, a very unique weapon and tons of magical options. She's the most logical option after Wolf because she actually has something that separates her heavily from the rest. Slippy is next after that. Leon and pretty much everyone else has even less than Dark Pit, who had far more potential than what was shown(although his personality and ideally being a clone like in his proper series was logical too).
It'd be lucky to get 4 at this point. It is not as popular or a major series as it should be now. 4 would be more than nice enough, but the fact it still didn't get more means that clearly it wasn't justified enough for Sakurai. He doesn't clearly see much of note. Lanky's biggest thing was body expansion, which of course Diddy somewhat took from him. Chunky doesn't have anything worth noting as there's enough major muscle characters already. Being "dumb muscle" doesn't really add anything. Dixie, K. Rool, and Cranky are about the only
Pichu was added due to the fact he wanted a clone and Gen II rep. This was never repeated and a horrid comparison. Squirtle was added mainly because of what Type he was. They do share a similar role because of this. And yes, Gen 1 is severely overrepped playable-wise. There is no good reason for the other Gens to not have at least 1 playable Rep right now. Let's not pretend the other Gens don't matter. This is something even Gamefreak has tried to cut back on, by removing in Black and White 1 the ability to catch anything(till after you beat the main game) other than Gen 5. There's a reason why the Pokemon Stadiums don't directly depend on Gen 1 either. Sakurai has not actually attempted to make only Gen 1 matter, and we're severely good with four Gen 1 Pokemon anyway. Pichu would be the best returner as he does have a bit more, an actual real mechanic to expand on. Squirtle does not. There's already fast small characters. There's a full water-based characters, his main real gimmick. Squirtle having a somewhat unique moveset is not enough to get him back. He also has a role to play, a gimmick, which is key to bringing him back. And it's covered far better than Mewtwo's was(and only arguably Lucas somewhat did that. He had the elemental attacks and jumps, but not the B moves, which were still not covered very well by anyone, except Shadow Ball had a fairly different variation in Aura Sphere). I'm barely expecting anyone to come back already Pokemon-wise, as it's highly well-repped anyway. Ivysaur is the only one that has an unused role at the moment. And as noted multiple times in how the Stages and even Brawl worked, Types have played a major role. Don't pretend they're irrelevant. If they were, Sakurai would not have bothered have PT's exact types being the 3 main starters(and two other types that happen to be there). Likewise, every Pokemon Stadium stage is based around types(and Normal on both due to how the stage works). If just the "Pokemon" mattered, he'd throw in whatever, but they're not done that way. Types are pretty heavily concentrated on since Melee as a key factor at times. And frankly, Greninja represents Water way better than Squirtle ever did. He fought more like a turtle, not a water character. And we have enough turtle antics from Bowser that that's part covered too. Unlike Mewtwo who had very little of his abilities covered, Squirtle does actually get split among two characters at the very least. Ivysaur unfortunately has pretty much no one similar to him at all, nor were his abilities split up halfway decently. If he could come back without Squirtle, I'd love it since he has a different role to play and his moves aren't even halfway covered.
I think he'll come back if they can expend the mechanic to make him worth playing, like they did with Lucario. Right now, there's nothing of interest to him besides the fact that in Melee he outright could not be hit by almost every one of Giga Bowser's attacks. He didn't have enough power or defense, and only speed. The gimmick only made him undesirable to most. He was fun, don't get me wrong, but just bringing him back with the same gimmick alone is not enough. He needs more.
Why would Sakurai not give all DLC characters customs? No, they're beyond likely to happen as that's a key part of Smash 4's features, the new ability to make them much more different than your opponent's same character and breathes life into the competitive scene as well as general casual 1 on 1. Except them. I don't think he even needs to note this. That's why working on Mewtwo only right now is the smart option. He first has to balance him, give him proper customs that makes sense(which can include removing some B moves if he can't find a way to make them more unique. Look at Tether Recoveries. Actually give them more unique properties is a bit harder since it should make somewhat sense for the character to do. Ivysaur is hurt by this the most. He doesn't use electric attacks. At best he could slightly have it "on fire" as a reference to his solar abilities from being a grass type, but now that leaves him with little else. It's one of the few Up B's that leaves little ways to customize it). Likewise, why would Charizard get this, but not Squirtle and Ivysaur, if they were to come back? They deserve the same treatment. Nobody should be left out, as they're all important enough to already come back(except Young Link at best, and only because he needs a new gimmick to not look redundant with Toon Link, who is highly de-cloned now more than ever anyway), and should be treated equally here. If one gets custom move choices, they all should. One thing that's pretty clear in 4 is that every character was make viable to a degree, and all of them has somewhat of a gimmick that makes them stand out from everybody else(the clones only kind of do this, but they are still made to be different, in some way. While obviously clone moves still exist, they aren't exactly the same either regardless.
Mother actually only has about 1.5m lifetime sales from what I read online. Its definitely better that Chibi Robo, Custom Robo and Advance Wars, but not Golden Sun. Advance Wars is longer running, though, and definitely deserves more recognition for that alone.@
I find it a laughable point that Mother, a more region specific, "dead" franchise, that only ever had three games, is "severely underepped," yet Kid Icarus, with Three games, worldwide acclaim, and essentially the entirety of Greek Myhos to draw on is pushing overkill.
Your bias has more than exposed itself.
You can claim it is not just about characters, which is... partially true, though utlimately what it always boils down to, but even still the franchises that win that argument are Chibi Robo, Custom Robo, Advance Wars, Golden Sun-- the ones which are as big as Mother (or bigger), but still have nothing in yet. but a song and some trophies, the things that don't really weigh in as more than consolation prizes.
Right, I just didn't feel like getting into the whole history of it. Sakurai was going to replace Ness with Lucas, but since Mother 3 never released outside Japan, he (rightly) figured that would be unwise, and chose to stick with Ness. But his favoritism struck when he decided to put in Lucas anyway in Brawl, in addition to Ness, even though Mother 3 was still not getting released outside Japan any time soon. But now look at all the Lucas fans there are....
Dark Pit did have a fan base/supporter base. He's just a popular as Pit is in Uprising.
I wanted him to be play like Brawl Pit myself. I love that moveset, more than his 4 version. Regardless, he's still pretty fun overall and their differences do matter at times, just not that often.
To note, we still don't have Miyamoto or Nintendo outright saying it, just a guide by fans of the game. Their gameplay tips are good, but bios are not truly official by default. It's still possible Nintendo and Miyamoto actually considers her a Princess, but they'd have to be asked, not Prima.Also, just read the "Is Rosalina a princess?" discussion on the last page.
She isn't. She's Mario's equivalent to god.
Rosalina cannot be a princess:
She does not fit any of these definitions.
People might call her a figurative "princess" in adoration of the character, but she is not one. She is not a queen either, she rules no kingdom, and has no subjects (the Comet Observatory is not a kingdom, it's her home and is an orphanage for Lumas, who are her adopted children).
Actually, this isn't quite accurate. Mother 3 wasn't merely not released outside of Japan; it wasn't released at all by the time Melee came out. It was originally going to be Earthbound 64, but Eartbound 64 was cancelled. It finally came out as Mother 3 in Japan only two years before Brawl's release. Sakurai probably thought that they might localize Mother 3 later, but it never happened, so Lucas was cut in the next game.
I wanted Dark Pit to be a ranger - his Smash 4 render even portrays him with the Dark Pit Staff, which only gets used as his Final Smash - but why wasn't his entire (or most of it) moveset focused around it? Have Pit be close combat, Dark Pit be a zoner, meaning the three key elements of Uprising's game mechanics are represented by a character - Pit for close combat, Dark Pit for ranged combat, and Palutena for the Powers.
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/super-mario-3d-world/0/3
That's not what I meant. What I meant was that Ness was put in in the last minute in Brawl due to extra development time. There was a message on Dojo severely implying that Ness was going to be cut, at least from what I heard. I haven't been able to find it and am relying on what people said, so take this with a grain of salt if you will since I don't have solid proof. If this is true, then by the time Ness was put in, Lucas had been announced so long ago that to take him out... I don't know what would've happened, but I think that would've been unwise.
ChikoLad
: Ah, thanks for the Rosalina info. I still would love to see what their official and proper word on her "role" is. Goddess or Mother of all Lumas is the closest one we have that the game tells us, not a fan-created Guide(which is only good for the most basic data of proper in-game information. Anything out of game is clearly their own idea of what it "could" be).
Yeah, Mario Wiki and it's sister site, Sonic News Network, are terrible for anything plot/story related, and their sections regarding that should be taken with a grain of salt. They're fine for objective game info like release dates and such, though.@
They at least make sure to not use outside information never available for some things. Like, while they may not really know if Prima's bio was truly approved by Nintendo or not, they do know Pokemon Trainer is never legitimately referred to Red at all in Smash and make sure it's kept that way. I agree the character is somewhat influenced by him, but to what degree is not known. I do not feel the exact choices were game driven. Charizard, yes. But the other two, not so much. Consider that Squirtle's immensely popularity is Anime-based and not so much game-based. Makes an easy base starter choice. Ivysaur just happened to be last and worked too for a fun and unique moveset. The changes to Smash 4 do affect him, as Tether Recoveries were killed, and making proper customs for his moveset will take a bit of work too. Any veteran returned isn't going to be a straight shot unless they're a clone like Pichu was(who can just clone the custom moves. Even that happened to a degree with Dr. Mario and entirely to Lucina and for the most part Dark Pit). I also think this is why we won't see a giganatic amount of DLC characters, vetearans or otherwise. If it was just as simple as porting their moveset over and doing a bit of balancing, sure. But giving them notable customs, 8 costumes(or more), any moveset change, new taunts/victory screens(note how Pichu has only 1 main taunt, as the other one is technically based upon the direction it's in, or at least one new taunt is needed), etc. takes time. Mewtwo is even more notable for this. He's not simply a clone in Smash. Most of his moves are unused. While it's easy to re-use Aura Sphere and adjust it for Shadow Ball, that does not apply to his other specials whatsoever. If they will even stay the same. And adding a new Final Smash(and it even depends if he wants the cat to go Mega or not. It's a very difficult process, which he has some months to do while having no other characters to work on, so it's not severely difficult). It'd have been super easy to port Wolf or Lucas, in comparison. The only major changes is costume colors, general balance, and some customs. And to be fair, they can share similar customs to Fox and Ness. The rest of their moves are super unique, so it's not a big deal.
It's not in the Instruction Booklet I have. Not in America, anyway. That could be some UK or JP only thing. What country are you from? I know for a fact that Nintendo has changed up some stories for characters before depending the region.
Oh wait no, it doesn't. I have the American version too and it doesn't actually say that. I got confused with the Prima Guide. My apologies.
It's fine. Easy mistake, since they both are "about" the actual game in question. XD Any Bios from a guide usually shouldn't be taken as canon unless we know for a fact the main company agrees. this isn't like Hyrule Historia either. It's a fan-made guide, after all.
I'm not merely accusing of mere bias, contextually, but as to the point of making the argument completely arbitrated.
Just warning you (as well as everyone else on this thread) to be careful about accusing people of bias.
Funny. Because I never said KI was overkilled character-wise. I suggest you stop actually attacking people and their arguments instead. Mother is severely underrepped. It has less than most playable series. It did not need to lose a character. I am completely fine with 3 Kid Icarus characters. I was never against that. My only issues ever with Dark Pit was the fact they were hard to tell apart and that's... it.@
I find it a laughable point that Mother, a more region specific, "dead" franchise, that only ever had three games, is "severely underepped," yet Kid Icarus, with Three games, worldwide acclaim, and essentially the entirety of Greek Mythos to draw on is pushing overkill.
You mean that I like to see every series and their various games well-repped if they already have playable stuff? Yep, total bias. Pokemon is beyond well-repped on its own. That was never in question. It is very low on stages, but otherwise, doesn't lack a single thing else. Mario is pretty low on Trophies in comparison to Pokemon, but got one more direct character to make up for it. Want to know what my actual bias is? I'm sick of Villains getting shafted out for Heroes. That's it. But hey, the characters are still gret anyway and I'm not even that mad. I'm trying to main Palutena, the one character I did not want at all.
Who says they can't have characters too? Where did I imply they don't deserve that in any way? Of course they do. Mother and StarFox getting their only other playables back is just fine as well. That's not an excuse here. You don't have to cut a low-repped series to make way for more. Frankly, I would be okay with cutting Dr. Mario again to make room for other series while keeping 6 Pokemon too. I would be even fine with having 6 of any series for playables max. But hey, if it doesn't ahppen, as long as the characters are cool and fun to play as(and I so far hold this for everyone for the most part. I didn't necessarily enjoy playing as Meta Knight, but he was till fairly cool none the less).
Truthfully, the fact Mother is dead may hurt Lucas' chances. But I think he and Wolf are the best veteran shots we have now(besides the already upcoming Mewtwo). Both are widely different enough, and have many reasons to come back. We know that Sakurai doesn't overload the game with Pokemon reps because he doesn't like actually overrepresenting some series in general(also, he already told us he doesn't just throw any Pokemon in as playable, he almost always goes for the most popular or noteworthy, or even mascots. Greninja is literally the only one that was chosen based upon design alone. Everybody else had prominence in some way. Starters, Popuularity, or a major Gimmick to make them fun. Look at Pichu. The gimmick, the fact he's a movie starring Pokemon, is pretty much Gen II's mascot to manhy people, as he represents the Babies in general, and being the pre-evolution of Pikachu, the main Mascot, further makes this more believable).. And he's actually doing fairly decently on that, imo. Despite claims to the contrary, he simply added lots of Smash Run KI enemies just due to assets from Uprising, and it also costs him way less time and money to add them. He doesn't have to pay more people. His crew already did those characters and could easily adjust them. It's very justified and I honestly believe he made a very smart and logical decision. I'm more annoyed that he didn't give enough love to the Wii U modes, namely a halfway decent Adventure Mode. Maybe DLC will fix that. Even show off some other series. Who knows. I don't feel Trophy/etc. wise any series is truly left out badly. DK got a bit of the shaft, but the fact Kremlings showed up in Smash Run was just awesome in itself. That, and we don't know why they weren't added. Executive meddling is also possible for why DK got less love. Sakurai doesn't have 100% control of every aspect of the game. He has too cooperate with Nintendo, Sega, and to a lesser extent, Bandai-Namco. Never mind Ubisoft slightly.
I see a lot of adjectives used here to spice up the sentence, but they are rather unnecessary...
I'm not attacking you, at all, so to refer back to you on suggestions, no need for the attitude.
Again, I'm bringing it into question, and therefore, it is in question.
I don't understand the problem with a dead series losing a character. Sakurai went on record to say he does not make it a priority to include characters he does not see a series' future for. Mother being all but confirmed to be done, why should it keep two characters? Why does it, with this sentiment, deserve to be one of the next downloaded characters, and where does this give Lucas much of a shot, other than his personal bias for the character? I just don't see it.
What you consider over-repping is not necessarily what he does. It seems to come down to what Japan would want. Three KI, four FE... I know this is in part because they were clones, but even there, he already had made separate models for those series and not others because they were popular in Japan, much, much more so than anywhere else.
Meh, I never claimed to be an Earthbound expert. Point is, goodbye Lucas.
Probably because of the biased comment. Don't expect to call people biased and they not to develop an attitude, just saying.
Admittibly, DK needs more characters. I wonder why it hasn't.
Because a) Sakurai hates cutting characters, and b) he hates cutting them for the reason that every single one has it's own fans, even the Melee clones and Dark Pit.
Fair enough, but I must ask: how would they feel like withheld content?
Accusing people falsely of stuff will get you attitude. I suggest you stop making false accusations entirely.
Oh, it's severely underrepped already. Popularity is not a good enough reason. So is many other series. DK, Golden Sun, and many others. Pokemon is almost perfectly repped right now. Mewtwo and one more stage gives it a great representation. Mother has been constantly called on never having its two other games released outside of Japan and has been wanted for ages. Don't act like it didn't warrant anything. it absolutely deserves its two characters and way more than it got. Pokemon got exactly what it deserved(including Mewtwo) outside of one stage.
Bosses left in Brawl. They are very different actual things in Smash and are specific to Single Player(which can include Co-Op, but it's designed around one player overall) in some way. Always have been, always will be. Getting tired of misusing this term. That applies to every game in history too. Rayquaza is nothing more than a Hazard now. Pokemon does not deserve 70% of the playable character cast. Nothing does. That's beyond ridiculous and completely ignores too many series. Brawl had 39 fairly unique characters(it is not 35, even as Sakurai said himself). They got 6 characters, a very big chunk of it, which was honestly very reasonable. Out of 51, having 6 playable characters is fine, as long as other series aren't shafted. And many were. And it includes both playable and non-playable.
When they barely have 1/10 the content of Pokemon? Yeah, that's severely underrepresented by far. Nothing deserves that for playable. Period. The fact it already had viable playable characters means there's no reason to not return them first. Pokemon is already sitting high at 6 characters with Mewtwo's veteran status back soon. Just needs one more stage, and it has perfect representation.
Adding Wolf could not even close to being "too much". He litrally adds 3 Trophies and 1 character overall. Assuming they don't re-use the current Trophies he has. That's such a tiny change that hit has zero significant impact int he percentage. A single Pokemon character actually affects it more due to how big Pokemon is already. We're taling a 1% jump VS what can effectively be anywhere between a 5% ato 10% jump. That's a huge difference.
Mother and StarFox both had all of these except profitable, and only for Mother outside of Japan because of the lack of two games.
It did not because it has no good way to make a somewhat new character. As noted by someone else, making someone other than quick clone, which doesn't have enough unique properties or something different to make them stand out. It also does not have as much popularity as the other clone choices to earn it.
Easily. Only Ivysaur has a strong reason to come back, to represent the Grass type, a key factor in Pokemon representation. The Types clearly do matter, and are the biggest focus of how Pokemon Stadium and the character movesets are designed. Squirtle is legitimately covered right now by having another available Water Type Starter, his key role. He's almost in Young Link's position, except for having a unique moveset, his role is actually gone.
I saw a barely repped series lose a character. I saw a severely repped character lose two guys. I'm going to easily go for the barely repped one to return. Because the series gets barely any love and it would better even out the representation. Don't frankly be surprised if Pokemon gets no more characters this time and they only return Wolf and Lucas as well. That could actually happen. Being dead only applies to not spending time on them before DLC. He never said once it applied to his DLC choices. He in fact has never talked about any rules about them in any way.
And Pokemon has more than enough content and already perfectly done with Mewtwo coming, save one more Stage, anyway. It's just lacking in good Grass representation among its Types. And Ivysaur does not have an easy moveset to work with, with Tether Recoveries removed for balance purposes. Squirtle is already covered well enough with Greninja, making his most notable point somewhat redundant. He may be cool on his own, but roles have played a point, whih iis why Young Link got thrown out for Toon Link.
Mewtwo is still a Veteran no matter what. He's only "New" in the sense he cannot just be ported over from the original game. They have to recreate him, make New data. He is still a previous playable character in the end. He's still a Veteran otherwise. Once a Vet, always a Vet. That cannot ever be changed. Especially since he's pretty clearly his Melee design, and not the newer feminine Mewtwo either.
Are we really on the "a character cannot be made unique" argument? Pikmin could be made to individually do many different things.
Sakurai has said he does not like to cut characters, and for that matter change them; this does not mean he doesn't do it. Refer to the previous games, we have a number of cut characters. The damage is done at this point.
Sakurai developed one game for Kid Icarus, and in doing so is leaving the series open for someone else to take over. He is not declaring the series dead, he is saying that as far as he knows, he will not be working on a future game.
How would returning veterans feel like withheld content?
From my perspective, you've had an attitude with me this entire time. Please kindly tell me what I accused you of. If it was my 'bias' remark, you absolutely are being bias. This, of COURSE, does not mean I am not bias myself. Additionally, you may find "telling people what to do" can also come across as being not only arrogant and condescending, as does attempting to correct statements which are not incorrect in the first place, and you merely want to demonstrate that you have knowledge.
Again, these are all your opinions. I hope you can see that they are not facts.
I don't know what you read to spur... any of this response, but I never claimed any series should have 70 percent of the roster.
For a series with perhaps 1/10th of the number of viable characters, 1/50 of the actual content in games, 1/80th of the number of fans, 1/500 of the amount of revenue? I don't think so. For your sake, as well as on a logical level as very few of Nintendo's IPs actually compare to the couple of monolithic titles at their forefront, I think the comparison to Pokemon is a poor one to make.
This is such utter nonsense I don't even know what to do with it anymore. The arbitrary confines which merely are descriptors of both Squirtle and Greninja, without being at all what they stand for.
Young Link is Toon Link, they are quite literally the same character in different art styles. Zelda and Link were updated from their Ocarina of Time look to their Twilight Princess look. Young Link was updated from his OoT look to his Windwaker design. It is the exact same character, it has nothing to do with roles. For an accurate parallelism of roles, refer above.
If the terms veteran and new character are opposites in this case, which is, I suppose, for an individual to decide, I will merely state- Sakurai referred to Mewtwo as a new character.
I disagree on most of these fronts. You may want to see series well represented, but again, I claim, I do too. I just don't by any means think all series are created equal. No, not at all. I think nearly any character could have viable options as a fighter, and we have seen this time and time again, to the point that it's almost a silly response to read.
Yeah I'm still kinda perturbed that Sakurai says there are no other DLC plans beyond Mewtwo (although, just having Mewtwo is a miracle), because Smash Bros. of all games seems very well suited to DLC.
Sakurai was never a big fan of DLC. He wants to make sure Mewtwo and DLC is popular enough to warrant doing a ton more. All of this costs time and money, so that actually means they have to sell enough to get money to pay his employees. He's just being reasonably smart about this and waiting.
I still think its just a PR statement. We already know they planned for the possibility of DLC, Namco were hiring for "Smash Bros. 6" back around E3, Nintendo's doing DLC with all their biggest games right now... Sorry, I don't buy it. Sakurai said no DLC was planned? Who the **** cares, Sakurai lied about several things already. I don't think Sakurai himself will be working on it, but he likely already has a plan for whoever takes over for DLC to handle.
Lied about several things? Not really.