Social The Zero Suit/Samus in Shorts Social

[David Viran]

Define social.

 

[Shaya]

We're nerds.
The "General Discussion" thread we have would be more applicable but we don't really seem to need both when we're not all waifu-**** or define existence from spamming images and farming likes.

So could probably merge the two / lock the other one. Or merge Q&A with Game play discussion.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

This does not belong in the social thread you anti-social *******s

I-Im sorry senpai!
H-how was your d-day?

 

[ArikadoSD]

0:46

GAWDDAYUM

we need to step it up!

 

[pichuthedk]

Depends on the OoS option. For someone like Mii Brawler's Helicopter Kick, the options you listed may be the only applicable ones. But say... ZSS vs ZSS. We can't boost kick another ZSS OoS if she spaces her nair perfectly. Zair is another interesting option that I haven't really looked into. I guess I have a lot to check out this week.

Also, the biggest grain of salt on all of this is movement between a hit and a confirm. A max range, fully charged paralyzer bullet may leave us with advantage frames on shield (shield drop or not), but despite ZSS gaining control first... she has to close that gap to make a punish. I don't know how to categorize movement with respect to frames at this moment in time, and that will likely become a big "what if" for hit confirm analysis.

Hmm yeah I hear you I need to look into specific examples like that because usually I would just run and grab but sometimes i wonder if fox trotting then roll cancel grabbing would be faster /hard for them to react to.

OMG that combo on BF we should look into that since we can prob get it from the start of a match using the big font from game as a distarction to get the grab xD.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

0:46

GAWDDAYUM

we need to step it up!

I'm pretty sure most frequent users here have done this once or twice already.

 

[pichuthedk]

True but doing it and then seeing how sexy it is with the Metal harbor song from SA2 makes you want to go fast...

 

[ArikadoSD]

I'm pretty sure most frequent users here have done this once or twice already.

I need to step it up then ;_;

 

[Cyn]

I'm pretty sure most frequent users here have done this once or twice already.

Never done this, but I don't play ZSS either .

 

[DeLux]

Shaya I am not merging this thread with the other, in fact, I think we need a third thread which will be the ZSS Commune thread

 

[Shaya]

So this thread will be about Zamus' shorts only.
I gotcha.

Shorts are nice and comfy after all.

 

[Cyn]

I'm not crazy about her shorts....some cut offs would have been kinda cute.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I like them. I play with the orange shorts outfit after all.

 

[David Viran]

Ew, the blue shorts are superior in every way.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

CLEAVAGE




WINDOW

 

[David Viran]

Everything but that.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

One colour can't be superior over another.
Only colour combinations can be garbage.

 

[David Viran]

On clothing it can.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Context is always relevant, and in a colourful game like smash bros, there really is no issue with an all orange outfit.
It also has greater nostalgia value to me because Zero Mission is my favourite Metroid game.
We are getting off topic again by the way. I'm not sure if we are allowed to talk about whole outfits.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Pink and orange shorts are the best costumes anyway, everything else is irrelevant

 

[David Viran]

Did anybody see Xanadu 100? 3 zss players in the top 8.

 

[2004Zilla]

If you guys ever need a laugh, here's a video of some guy raging against a Zero Suit player on FG.

My favorite part is when he calls ZSS hot after raging.

 

[Cyn]

I'm guessing he was raging over the kick? There were no captions for me.

 

[itsmeMOB]

ZSS salt is real.

I'm new here, btw, and I co-main ZSS (along with Lucina) to help as a counter for my true main, Little Mac, when I need it.

I fell in love with ZSS when I learned her, though. She has a lot of options that Mac and Lucina don't have that I love to use, and her aerial game is so unmatched compared to my other mains.

I feel like I'll learn so many more things I didn't know before here, though. I like it here.

 

[David Viran]

If you guys ever need a laugh, here's a video of some guy raging against a Zero Suit player on FG.

My favorite part is when he calls ZSS hot after raging.

You can't deny true beauty I guess.

 

[pichuthedk]

uhhh welll at least this guy seems like he understands his actions and characters were futile all hail the master chozo/Metriod/X race?

 

[Shaya]

I've been b/fthrowing into flip jump all day on for glory...

I think I'm going to have to stop going for it...
it's just a little...
too good.... and I have a feeling nintendo may see it *gasp*

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I've been b/fthrowing into flip jump all day on for glory...

I think I'm going to have to stop going for it...
it's just a little...
too good.... and I have a feeling nintendo may see it *gasp*

Does that true combo?

 

[Shaya]

fthrow to it may do on some floaty characters like Samus...? maybe?

Both kinda feel very hard to avoid if you input properly and they don't DI up/the right way (i.e. below ZSS as flip jump approaches them? they're probably in a lot of trouble)

Bthrow flip jump may be unavoidable at lowish percent on certain characters actually, which eh... if you want to look fancy and immediately start the fear of bthrow flip jump growing (for conditioning on DI that's better for dthrow or frame trapping air dodges) then may be worth doing from time to time.

The actual criteria for bthrow true comboing is confusing me though.
It seems to reliably start linking at around 40% on Samus, and only starts to show true comboing at 115% but starts to show scratches (that still hit) at 125%.
Fthrow seems to start linking at around 60% and stops at around 95%. Never showing a true combo in that range.

Dash jump down b, or jump down-b may have various nuances of extending this stuff... Fthrow dash jump down-b links on fthrow up until around 105%, but seems like that could be dodged. And bthrow is similarly increasing that 'linking' range a bit further.
(reminder: above numbers are against samus training mode).

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

fthrow to it may do on some floaty characters like Samus...? maybe?

Both kinda feel very hard to avoid if you input properly and they don't DI up/the right way (i.e. below ZSS as flip jump approaches them? they're probably in a lot of trouble)

Bthrow flip jump may be a true combo at lowish percent on certain characters actually, which eh... if you want to look fancy and immediately start the fear of bthrow flip jump growing (for conditioning on DI that's better for dthrow or frame trapping air dodges) then may be worth doing from time to time.

Oh I was misreading it as dThrow for some reason.
bThrow > sex kick actually true combos around 45% on nearly every character, but every character aside from puff and kirby can DI down.
Puff and kirby can DI up instead.
I've used this as clutch combo for months now. People never seem prepared.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So I just went to my first tourney ever, which also was the first smash 4 tourney ever in my city, and I actually won. 16 people so it was pretty small, but it's a start.
Got 2 pretty close matches against a Link main and a Yoshi main.
Having a Smash scene at all in a small city in Germany is a rare thing. I hope we continue to grow.

Edit: I'm not sorry for the double post, just to let you know.

 

[trombonophone99]

I've decided I'm gonna switch out Ness for ZSS as a co-main for my Bowser. I feel like ZSS can be more creative in how she approaches, sets up, and combos. She definitely feels a bit harder to use with her fast physics. Also Bowser and ZSS are Up B OoS bros.

Not to mention it'd be useful learning how to play the character that is literally Bowser's worst matchup in the game IMO.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Hype Kick II - The Hypening (online version!)

Spoiler: collapsed cause gfycats are huge

Accompanying video below... not that my game play is really worth watching aside the kick. Everyone else on FG was letting me get away with murder/slop, so I was getting lazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYww5uiy27w

It has all the characteristics of the 1 frame vulnerability hit. G&W is about head height below the stage level, and our flip kick reaches that far down. Interestingly, I started that flip above stage height and still got the kick to come out near stage level... Usually ZSS regains control at about the height she starts the kick at.

Also, that same game and watch broke statistics and got 4 9-hammers out of 5 attempts in a different match. Needless to say, I totally lost this one.

Spoiler: nines!

 

[Shaya]

"guaranteed to work on Rosalina".

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Hype Kick II - The Hypening (online version!)

Spoiler: collapsed cause gfycats are huge

Accompanying video below... not that my game play is really worth watching aside the kick. Everyone else on FG was letting me get away with murder/slop, so I was getting lazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYww5uiy27w

It has all the characteristics of the 1 frame vulnerability hit. G&W is about head height below the stage level, and our flip kick reaches that far down. Interestingly, I started that flip above stage height and still got the kick to come out near stage level... Usually ZSS regains control at about the height she starts the kick at.

Also, that same game and watch broke statistics and got 4 9-hammers out of 5 attempts in a different match. Needless to say, I totally lost this one.

Spoiler: nines!

Beautiful.

 

[Dagon97]

Just found out on Nairo's stream that the orange shorts zss has slightly longer hair than the ZSS with blue shorts on the cahrecter scelection screen but I don't think it affects anything in game.

 

[trombonophone99]

How many fellow naifus are in this thread? nairoWaifu

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

How many fellow naifus are in this thread? nairoWaifu

...You know that Nairo is male right?

 

[Dr. Tuen]

So I started my next project (Shields II), but I made an interesting finding in combing over sixriver's Shiek frame data...

Her forward air.
Total Frames - 34
Active Frames - 5-7
Landing Lag Window - 5-10
Landing Lag - 10

Compare to our... neutral air.
Total Frames - 51
Active Frames - 10-11, 15-16
Landing Lag Window - 4-41
Landing Lag - 10

What's the difference? Most of our moves, and realistically most of Shiek's, have a landing lag window that surrounds their parent hitboxes along with a sizeable amount of the end frames of the move. This seems consistent over most characters. Except this! Sheik could hit you with a forward air, land 3 frames later and incur 4 frames of fast fall landing. That totals 7 frames, when her landing lag would normally be 10.

What does that mean? It means a buffered boost kick (must be frame perfect!) or a jab is all we have that legit beats out a frame perfect action from Sheik. Otherwise, she shields for free. If she somehow manages forward air --> 3 frames --> land using a slow fall, we can only jab. And that doesn't work at proper spacing.

I sure hope someone re-does this and tells me that I'm wrong. I'd really... really like to be wrong...

 

[Shaya]

Welcome to approximately 2 weeks before WiiU release.

It's lovely, isn't it? That doesn't even include the shield stun the move has (which is about 3 IIRC). The move is optimally -3 on shield. So for the most part, only power shield options exist, or boost kick (because it's amazing).

But if you want to talk about frame safety on shield, I have a feeling Falcon's back air takes the cake.