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The Wofl House (Video Thread)

Seagull Joe

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:awesome:

Nair to grab if you can pull it off since dthrow reads are good, your fair goes through a lot of stuff including our sideB iirc, dtilt can be a bit annoying, well-spaced/timed smashes to bait punish attempts that aren't guaranteed for a shieldgrab... idk, those are the main things I get annoyed about when fighting G&W.

:059:
As long as you don't Fsmash a grounded GaW he can't really punish you with a smash.

And I've basically gotten rid of Fsmash from my moveset other then punishing and it's also my panic move lol.

And the video thread should have some more of my videos vs certain characters...I have a lot of Peach, Ics, D3, and other character matchups on my channel. Shall I post them here?
 

~ Gheb ~

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I use fsmash to punish whiffed shieldgrabs after bair. So many people trying to shield grab that ^^

:059:
 

Seagull Joe

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I'll post like one for each character to fill in the spots I'm missing for characters. Only posting MM's or tourney sets since friendlies are harder to judge for obvious reasons:

MM with Zekey :dedede::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMospxLrdUo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhlcjHR-KeI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbmffHU5-RQ

MM with D.Disciple (three out of five) :lucario::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPn0TboNX20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYZn3A3aNwQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjDj90NsIYY

MM with King Beef :peach::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Rx9mKgUZ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOoX-IZ5Doo

MM with DarkflameX :popo::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JoYd-tKEGM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRCK9ZM1vLc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv41q_TMcUU

MM with Ally :metaknight::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtQ_hATEtG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVwnY8ZrDcU

There is also various other characters who I played on my channel or are saved in my favorites.
 

GimR

GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
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Seagull, your wolf would be 2X better if you mixed up your shield pressure game with random air dodge buffered grabs. this would make your opponent afraid to shield thus you would get more hits in plus they would start rolling and spot dodging which can be easily punished by your FSmash and DSmash
 

Seagull Joe

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Seagull, your wolf would be 2X better if you mixed up your shield pressure game with random air dodge buffered grabs. this would make your opponent afraid to shield thus you would get more hits in plus they would start rolling and spot dodging which can be easily punished by your FSmash and DSmash
SHAD's? I don't like to do those because I can't do anything from a Shad other then grab like you said lol. I used to do those, but they're very punishable by comparison to just empty short hops.

I do them on occasion to jump behind people.
 

castorpollux

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SHAD's? I don't like to do those because I can't do anything from a Shad other then grab like you said lol. I used to do those, but they're very punishable by comparison to just empty short hops.

I do them on occasion to jump behind people.
I think what GIMR is saying is to pretend to bair but instead SHAD behind them and grab. It's a really good mixup
 

GimR

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^ basically

Don't shad because that implies you're air dodging as soon as you jump. I want you to only use air dodge to buffer the grab. So essentially replace when you would normally B-air with an air dodge -> buffer grab. This makes it so your opponent doesn't know what you're gonna do since youre waiting until right before you hit the ground to make your decision. It is impossible to react to thus they must guess what you're going to do
 

GimR

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I just tested the frame data and it is impossible to punish a perfectly timed b-air on shield no matter how badly it's spaced. You have a 5 frame disadvantage thus if you buffer a shine they CANNOT grab you out of shield.
 

castorpollux

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I just tested the frame data and it is impossible to punish a perfectly timed b-air on shield no matter how badly it's spaced. You have a 5 frame disadvantage thus if you buffer a shine they CANNOT grab you out of shield.
WUUUuuuUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTT?!!!?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!!??!
 

MegaRobMan

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I just tested the frame data and it is impossible to punish a perfectly timed b-air on shield no matter how badly it's spaced. You have a 5 frame disadvantage thus if you buffer a shine they CANNOT grab you out of shield.
So I can just bair/shine spam? Or are people going to start waiting for shine to come out and then grab?
 

_Kain_

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He says you have to time it right. But neways ima try it, could be really good for baiting grabs against ****** chars
 

Seagull Joe

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I just tested the frame data and it is impossible to punish a perfectly timed b-air on shield no matter how badly it's spaced. You have a 5 frame disadvantage thus if you buffer a shine they CANNOT grab you out of shield.
Show me this next time I see you Calvin.
 

GimR

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you basically have to b-air so perfectly that the very frame after shield lag is over, wolf is on the ground. I'll try and show it to you gull but I don't know if I could pull it off.

I mean you guys already have it so good that you can just space the b-air and your opponent gets pushed so far back that they can't grab you anyways lol
 

Ishiey

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I... honestly thought this was well known by now @___@ But I thought frame advantage for a perfect bair on block was +4, not -5?

From Wolf Frame Data thread said:
Bair
HF (hits on): 6-9
D (duration): 38
HL (hitlag): 9
BS (blockstun): 13
BHL (block hitlag): 9
LL (landing lag): 8
:059:
 

GimR

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If you were +4 you would be able to b-air some one's shield then buffer a grab and the only way they would be able to avoid it would be to spot dodge. Do you understand how broken that would be? :chuckle:
 

Ishiey

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... :bee: I should really get frame advance lol, that would be pretty awesome indeed. I'm just wondering though, why isn't the frame data I posted above agreeing with your frame count? :confused: It's not that I'm doubting you, but if there's something wrong with either the Wolf frame data or the way I interpret the data... I'd like to find out what it is before I make any more mistakes lol

:059:
 

GimR

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You interpret it wrong. Certain parts of shield stun(AKA block stun) can be canceled by grabbing, spot dodging, jumping, etc.

I was able to start the grab on the 4th frame of shield stun

this means the grab came out on frame 9. Frame 9 is the very first frame Wolf is free to move. Since his Shine is invincible on frame 1 you can use it to bait grab no matter how badly spaced.


On the other hand. Olimar's grab is 11 frames thus it wouldn't come out until frame 15. So if you buffer grab against Olimar it will grab him at the exact same frame he grabs you. I wonder who will win
 

tekkie

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I... honestly thought this was well known by now @___@ But I thought frame advantage for a perfect bair on block was +4, not -5?
wolf boards don't have anything that could even be mistaken for an organized knowledge base. everything i've ever learned from the wolf boards ive learned on accident lol
 

Ishiey

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You interpret it wrong. Certain parts of shield stun(AKA block stun) can be canceled by grabbing, spot dodging, jumping, etc.

I was able to start the grab on the 4th frame of shield stun

this means the grab came out on frame 9. Frame 9 is the very first frame Wolf is free to move. Since his Shine is invincible on frame 1 you can use it to bait grab no matter how badly spaced.


On the other hand. Olimar's grab is 11 frames thus it wouldn't come out until frame 15. So if you buffer grab against Olimar it will grab him at the exact same frame he grabs you. I wonder who will win
@__________________________@

Well **** lol. Is this a universal thing? Like, shieldstun from any attack can be cancelled x frames early by the same set of actions?... Man, I didn't even know :urg:

:059:
 

Zync

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WTF? does this mean we can just go and spam a Bair in their faces while doing a shine to prevent grabs?
 

Luminoth64

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GimR

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@__________________________@

Well **** lol. Is this a universal thing? Like, shieldstun from any attack can be cancelled x frames early by the same set of actions?... Man, I didn't even know :urg:

:059:
Yes this is universal. The only thing that Shield Stun Really stops is dropping your shield and punishing with a normal grounded attack
 

Eddie G

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Geez I want to slap myself for throwing out that much Peach bomber. Disgusting. xP

GGs though Seagull. Your Wolf is pretty beast my man.
 

AscWolf

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I recorded my Pool Matches from Dögüsch Smash in Germany.
I didn´t came out of the pools ._.
So feel free to give comments, crtique or something and yea my spacing sucks atm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB4dadhUa5o AscWolf (Wolf) vs Siri (Peach) 1-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llOGHet2y3A AscWolf (Wolf) vs Maze (Snake) 1-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05MY_0Trlas AscWolf (Wolf) vs Jul!? (Luigi) 1-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1unKCiEd-Bs AscWolf (Wolf) vs Desti (Luigi, Snake) 1-3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J9ebjn3TtM AscWolf (Wolf) vs Aqua (Falco) 1-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-gPckLmvdk AscWolf (Wolf) vs Akuma (mk, Snake) 1-2
 

Ishiey

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I recorded my Pool Matches from Dögüsch Smash in Germany.
I didn´t came out of the pools ._.
So feel free to give comments, crtique or something and yea my spacing sucks atm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB4dadhUa5o AscWolf (Wolf) vs Siri (Peach) 1-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llOGHet2y3A AscWolf (Wolf) vs Maze (Snake) 1-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05MY_0Trlas AscWolf (Wolf) vs Jul!? (Luigi) 1-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1unKCiEd-Bs AscWolf (Wolf) vs Desti (Luigi, Snake) 1-3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J9ebjn3TtM AscWolf (Wolf) vs Aqua (Falco) 1-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-gPckLmvdk AscWolf (Wolf) vs Akuma (mk, Snake) 1-2
ANOTHER GERMAN WOLF WHOOOOO :bee: First things first, welcome to the Wolf boards AscWolf :) now, it’s time for critiques :o


[collapse=vs Siri]Game 1: lol first thing = platform cancel, <3 Europe. Good job with the DACIT. If you can FH shine OoS, that's a less risky way to punish Peach for floating dairs, just throwing it out there in case you're interested. You're jumping into a lot of turnips :/ learn to instant throw? Good momentum cancelling habits, but work on DIing her fair a bit better. When it gets really stale she shouldn't be killing you with it until like 180%. NEVER use upB from directly below the stage if you can help it, it's very easy for your opponent to edgehog it and then you're dead. It also helps if you don't AD when you're offstage and not very high up, as I said before learn to instant throw ;D I saw a lot of dairs in this match, and I'm not really sure why you used them to be honest, didn't seem like they were working :/ You use DACUS to push her off the ledge a lot, when you push her off she's vulnerable for a few frames before she can grab the ledge so use dsmash and try to get a kill off of it. Also, Siri is always using jabs right after fair, but you're still always letting your shield down after the fair, catch onto that. 5:30, where you SDId her dair above her and daired her back, that was awesome :cool:

Game 2: Why Frigate? :/ the high ceiling makes it a bit harder to kill with fair, but CPs usually come down to personal preference so just wondering ^^ I see that you aren't getting a lot of grabs in... try to fix that :p dthrow is amazing, great for damage and for follow-ups. 7:15, again, no airdodging -_- Instant throw, I'm telling you, it's worth it. Still gotta work on DIing that fair too, as well as not throwing out random dairs.[/collapse]

[collapse=vs Maze]Game 1: Watch out for ftilt a bit more, never blaster from a range where he can punish with ftilt. 1:00, perfect time to go for a grab btw. Work on keeping Snake in the air more (uair), and what happened with your upB :/ Work on aiming that thing, and remember to avoid recovering from directly under the stage whenever possible. Nice dair read @ 1:52, but lots of mistakes right afterwards that ended up killing you :/ Nice runoff bair, and work on punishing Snake's landings a bit more, I notice you getting too far away from him and then he b-reverses to safety. And yayy dthrow kill :D Stop jumping into his nairs, if you get hit by it you can downB out or get out with SDI. Whenever you throw him in the air he uses an AD when you get close, next time try to bait it and bair him as he gets out. I'd say instant throw his grenades except he always strips them so... :urg:

Game 2: Try not to scar into Snake, it usually ends up with a tilt to the face or a grenade :/ AWESOME way to take his first stock though, that was pretty good ;D Not much else to say that hasn't already been said I suppose. You did a better job of keeping him in the air this time ;D[/collapse]

[collapse=vs Jul!?]Game 1: 0:20, why punish with a shine when you can punish with bair and do more damage + put him in a worse position? :x I like the fthrow > dacus attempts btw, but don't use it so often or else it becomes telegraphed :/ AWESOME spike at 0:45, too bad it didn't kill :p So many misfires @_@ nice DACUS techchase at 1:22. You do a good job of landing fairs at FH height and above as well ;D Something I want to mention in general, try using usmash OoS as a punisher, it's awesome and you could use with some more punishment options. Another thing, when you use upB or sideB you have extra landing lag when you get off the ledge. If you can avoid using those moves to get to the ledge, do so.

Game 2: You do a good job of using DACUS to hit him as he's rising from a SH ;D at 5:00, as I said before, work on that recovery :/ A general rule against Luigi, don't approach. There is almost no reason to approach when you can just bair him away when he SHs or laser his downB approach :p 5:44, try not to AD into the ground a lot, a lot of people expect it and yeah :x 6:48, so many dairs lol, and a nice spike to finish it off ;D[/collapse]

[collapse=vs Desti]Game 1: 1:22, a fair would’ve killed, why’d you uair :< 1:47, not that you did a bad punish but consider punishing with a grab, it does around equal damage and puts you in a better position imo. To each their own of course, but just throwing it out there. End of his second stock, don’t punish with dsmash before it’ll kill because then it’ll be too stale to kill :x 2:40, work on edgehogging. 2:49, dthrow! You punished wayyyyy too much with dsmash :/ but I guess that at least that forces your bair to be fresh :p nice DACUS to end the game.

Game 2: Good work at the beginning of the stock ;D You’re still very dair happy but whatever works for you :p 4:47, good job catching his AD into the ground with a dsmash. And right after, sideB when the opponent pops out of your DACUS, I don’t care if it didn’t work, that’s fun stuff lol. Good use of charged smashes, good job DIing out of nair at 6:06 and reflecting his usmash at 6:16. The walljump bair at 7:00 was cool ;D good read at 7:25 with the dair, and great way to take his second stock with the dthrow and baiting him to AD into the charged dsmash :cool: Everything else that’s relevant I went over in the last Snake video.

Game 3: Nice work getting Snake in the water and harassing him there, and nice dair spike at the end ;D 10:28, nice follow-up. Shield break :urg: be more careful with that. Good work towards the beginning of his last stock. 11:58, example of a useless nair that gets you hit. Don’t do stuff like that. That ending in the water was risky :o but congrats on pulling it off.[/collapse]

[collapse=vs Aqua]Game 1: You got grabbed :/ Work on either camping the platform or spacing better so that you don’t get hit by the CG. Excellent shine gimp though, that was nice ;D 1:15, pummel! And awesome dsmash out of phantasm ;D You do a good job of being careful with your recovery too (staying away from Falco so he can’t hit you out and put you in a worse position), except for the upBing that killed your first stock :/ You got grabbed again, but good thing this guy keeps on messing up :p nice dtilt trip > dacus attempt. Be careful to not scar into Falco’s fsmash :x I thought you had this, but you messed up the gimp and ended up killing yourself X____x Work on your recovery, definitely.

Game 2: Timing downB to hit Falco out of his sideB is pretty tough, maybe try intercepting it with nair instead? Work on gimping Falco, messing it up puts you in a really bad position :/ and he didn’t mess up the CG this time :( You can SDI the spike onto the stage and tech, practice that if you’d rather do that than worry about avoiding the CG.[/collapse]

[collapse=vs Akuma]Game 1: Good work at the start. Actually, good work overall :o until you got edgehogged and lost your second stock that is :/ try using downB to intercept the tornado. Around 3:33, good job handling the situation.

Game 2: So many Snakes @___@ You’re pretty good at flash cancels though. Don’t fsmash Snake’s shield, try to save it for punishing only or else you’ll be taking LOTS of damage from ftilt :x Everything else I’m pretty sure was said before.[/collapse]


[collapse=OVERALL THINGS TO LOOK OUT FOR (in relative order of importance, imo)]You use a lot of dsmash for punishing, I’d recommend using something else an trying to save dsmash for kills (also, pivot your dsmashes. You should almost ALWAYS be hitting with the first hit, it’s faster and stronger and therefore better unless you’re covering a roll :p). This ties in with punishing, use more usmash OoS and SH fair OoS since they are both quicker than dsmash and have very good range. Punishing with dsmash is honestly a very very bad idea unless you’re going for the kill because you ALWAYS have better options. Fix this.

Work on your recovery. This includes DI, not using upB from horrible angles to get to the ledge (sideB is almost always better, but your upB aim still needs work :x), not airdodging so that you end up below the stage, trying to avoid landing penalty when possible, etc. You had WAY more SDs than you should’ve in these sets, and they can be avoided. Also work on your offstage game while you’re at it, get more consistent with those shine gimps (although I must admit you do a good job of baiting airdodges into your dsmash with FHs ;D)

Remember to pummel before you throw, it helps refresh your moves which is especially important when your opponent reaches higher %s and also tacks on extra damage. Use more grabs overall, and learn your followup options out of dthrow.

Learn to instant throw. Really. It’s good ;D

Dair and nair. I don’t fully understand your dair use and I guess it works, but be a bit more careful with it since it can leave you open for punishment. I never really saw many good things come out of your nair where you wouldn’t be better off using another aerial, so maybe re-evaluate your nair usage? To me it honestly just looks like you double jump and nair to look cool >_> Some of your nair usage was very good, but there were still those random nairs flying around, and I’d try to work that out of your game.[/collapse]

Hope I helped :)

:059:
 

AscWolf

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I really didn´t know what to pic against peach.
Just hoped that she doesnt come come back to Stage at the end without edge.

Yea i don´t really like the up B Controll ._.

I don´t really know how to SDI that dair spike.

Didn´t really realized that I punish that much dsmash, will remember that.

So many Snakes @___@
That´s that I thought the whole pool xD

I like nair, it looks pretty cool ._.

How will instant throw be perfomed?


You gave me many things to think about.
I´ll work on it.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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Idk exactly what to pick against Peach either to be honest :p maybe Halberd?

I'm not the best at SDIing the spike, but it's just like any other SDI. Tap both sticks towards the stage and press the shield button to tech the stage.

Nair looks cool, but it lasts a long time and it's not hard for your opponent to hit you out of it since it lacks disjoint. It doesn't have the longest cooldown after the hitbox which can sometimes bait attacks, but eh :/ looked like you were using it for more defensive purposes, there were also a lot of times where you used nair offensively and it went well so don't throw it out :p just watch out to make sure you're getting something out of it instead of leaving yourself open to punishment.

Instant throw: press the airdodge button right as the item is about to hit you, and then press cstick in the direction you want to throw the item right afterwards. Practice it on a place like Battlefield where you can put items on the platforms above you and practice jumping and instant throwing them :)

:059:
 

Seagull Joe

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Laem

Smash Champion
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Nightrain
man
you had that, first match vs m2k

btw instead of continuously getting hit by kismets get up attack u oughta either do side b from further away so ud sweetspot hit him if he doesnt get off the ledge, or easier just upb, he'da gone for get up attack nyway
 

_Kain_

Smash Champion
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You should start practicing frame perfect ledge planking. Like JJ so then you can just Side B snap to the ledge or scar if they choose to try to grab the ledge on you. Up Bing is to risky if they read it
 

Seagull Joe

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You should start practicing frame perfect ledge planking. Like JJ so then you can just Side B snap to the ledge or scar if they choose to try to grab the ledge on you. Up Bing is to risky if they read it
That's what JJ told me I should practice. The problem for me in doing that is when I ledge snap, I hit down and not away. I've done this since the game came out. I'll work on it.

@T, I'll try that too. Also, your avatar scares me LOL.
 
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