Blargy
Smash Journeyman
Im trying to implant Jump shine in my game play and so far its been working well for me :D
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The Wofl House (Video Thread)
- Thread starter Espy Rose
- Start date
tekkie
Smash Master
its not bad
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
From my knowledge the few people that use Jumpshine are me, JJ, Atomsk, Fl@me, and mitsurugi. I think that's it.
I applied to the BBR. Lol. Maybe I'll get in, but probably not.
I applied to the BBR. Lol. Maybe I'll get in, but probably not.
KRDsonic
Smash Master
Hi JJ, hurry with your 1000th post and stop making alts k?
Wolfang
Smash Journeyman
Now I wont say camp, but to stay out of at least his vB area is a good idea. Sounds silly, but you can even kill DK with a utilt at that range, since he has no choice but to extend his hurtbox when he attacks. The utilt was just an example, but there are obviously better moves (like b-air, go figure). He cant aggress nearly as fast as you, ever, unless he has his back to you, so properly spaced f-airs and b-airs can stop you from being driven to the edges as well, which you sort of did. Dsmash usage was kinda obvious though, you only got him when it came from behind (hint). And I know using laser camping is boring, but it gets more fun out of the game than being ko'd at 80-100% lol.Can someone tell me everything I'm doing wrong in the DK matchup? (Other than not camping, camping is boring to me). I was rusty in these fights, but no johns. Also, a lot of my Fsmashes weren't supposed to be Fsmashes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E3hb42GN_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoiHmSYmhWo
tedeth
Smash Master
I've just been watching my own videos agains Scabe's link and god ****. So many times I was lik e"wow, I could have shine spiked him really easily" but for some reason it never dawned on me in the set.
Basically, I'm ********.
Basically, I'm ********.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I use it when it's convenient. Atomsk uses it for Shine>Jumpshine combo.
Wait a minute, if you hit someone with shine, you can jump out of it? I thought it was only for projectiles. Or do you mean when edge guarding, because if that's your only use, you're missing like 90% of its use.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
When edgeguarding.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
I'm a fan of Kain's wolf, his number 1 fan.
Kain is a pimp.
Also, I'd like to reiterate all that stuff about jumpshine, and how it ***** face etc etc.
Tomorrow is the first day of spring, so Rita's is giving out free italian ice. Tasty :3
Also, I'd like to reiterate all that stuff about jumpshine, and how it ***** face etc etc.
Tomorrow is the first day of spring, so Rita's is giving out free italian ice. Tasty :3
_Kain_
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2009
- Messages
- 2,154
I loled at Ishy's but thanks i'll keep trying to get better too hopefully i get some vids recorded this comin weekend at a tourny i go toKain is a pimp.
Also, I'd like to reiterate all that stuff about jumpshine, and how it ***** face etc etc.
Tomorrow is the first day of spring, so Rita's is giving out free italian ice. Tasty :3
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
It's obvious Bowser players love Kain, for what reason I don't know. But hes awesome.
Sumer
Smash Ace
Beat me to it. lol
I think camaman did pretty well, however I wish he knew that wolf had a fair </3 retreating fair is an awesome approach that I saw him neglecting throughout both games. When he was facing forward it was almost as if he didn't know how to approach without running back and doing bairs.
Other than that I think RAR laser while retreating would have helped a lot, or SH retreating laser. I've been using those two in conjunction with my regular play style a lot recently (when I get a chance to play brawl...school johnz <.<) and it helps a lot. I really think that using more retreating SH and RAR lasers would help wolf in so many match ups and just be an over all better character while playing safer at the same time. I was going to make a thread about it, and include a few more things from the stuff I do with wolf that I don't see many other people do too often, but I'm lazy. :3 I might make it if I have time I suppose.
Game 3 btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htRbDKfIm1g
Wolfang
Smash Journeyman
Irony, truth, and quote of the day. Lol.
Goldenadept
Smash Lord
haha @ 1:40 in the 3rd match MK realizes that he can't spam nado against wolf so easily and takes a moment to reconsider his gay ways XD
good ol' wolf, he can't let you do that
good ol' wolf, he can't let you do that
What a noob. Uh, I mean, he doesn't Jumpshine.
SelfPossessed
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 170
Jumpshine instead of roll now?
Its an inside joke.Jumpshine instead of roll now?
turtle, selfpossessed roomed with Edubz too lol!
he's just as inside as me and u
btw
EDUBZ (jj's roomate) VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwXlLDk1y6U
most entertaining video of all time (only if you actually know the guy though)
SelfPossessed
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 170
EDIT: MOAR CAMAMAN, watching nao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HoSTcMEQMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75NJcASd0mQ
EDIT: Match 5 was D:. Fiction just started reading Camaman. Those Shines didn't help.
So about the Camaman videos.
I agree that more Fair would have been nice. However, it is important to take matchup considerations into account.
SH retreating Fair means a loss of stage control if it doesn't successfully hit. It's fine if you hold much of center stage, but it can quickly put you in a terrible position.
When Wario is doing a SH towards you from further away, he can AD right before he gets into your Fair range. If you Fair at this time, Wario's AD will avoid it and he will land before you for a free punish. With his air mobility, it isn't that big of a commitment as he can quickly retreat. Hell, this also makes FH pretty difficult (he gets beneath you) as you're practically forced to retreat to the edge of the stage or get punished.
Your best bet against this is to either predict the jump and SH laser it, predict it and SH before he does for a FF Bair, or wait it out and punish the landing frames with Fsmash/Usmash/hyphen Usmash/DACUS/laser. If you really want to do a keepaway game with an aerial, SH Bair is safer despite the lower priority as you can at least DJ away or Shine or Jumpshine against this (though it still puts you in a bad position). Crossovers are also a possibility, but they carry their own risk if the opponent can react to it fast enough.
If Wario does a SH towards you and you are a little bit too close, his Fair will outspeed Wolf's and interrupt it. Retreating Jumpshine is nice here, as is dash away -> whatever.
Warios also like to approach at an angle with FH and maybe DJ, mixing up Dair/Uair/Bite/AD safely away. Our Fair isn't very useful against this either. Of course, depending on the situation, you have other options like SH FF Uair, Utilt, Shine, JumpShine, HYPHEN USMASH (lulz), etc.
Still, despite our options, my point is that SH Fair is not the answer to everything. Wario can make it VERY hard for you to abuse it. A bit more SH Fair would have been nice nonetheless though.
As for the games, it felt like Fiction was being a bit overly aggressive and getting hurt for it. Wolf should not be landing that many hyphen Usmashes against Wario's Dair bomb given that he can AD away instead. I've tried that on my roommate before with meh results (both of us suck at this game, but still it was hard to land more than once a match). Overall though, Camaman did better when he
- Punished the over-aggression with Usmashes (damage and setups). The amount of whiffed punish attempts in the first match that could have been Usmashes...
- Used FH less (harder for Wario to move in and combo the hell out of you)
- Successfully baited with Shine, AD, etc. a LOT (cause more aggression to be punished)
- Stayed under platforms in Battlefield (limited Wario approaches)
That he did SH FF AD more than SH FF Bair isn't that bad actually. Wario's ground range isn't that great, so it's safer than against other characters. As long as the opponent fears the possibility of SH FF Bair (like when Camaman baited out the shield drop with SH FF AD and Fsmashed it), I think this is a decent mixup.
I was really interested in his Shine usage actually. I'm not sure that Shine bait would work against a lot of opponents, but it's apparently viable against good players who are aggressive enough. I laughed when the Wario whiffed a shieldgrab against a spaced Shine (totally did not know that was possible).
Grounded Shine though is something I've been curious about ever since I first learned about the invincibility frames. The reward is just...mediocre for such a high risk (Jab combo is good, but you'll end up buffering Dtilt with grounded Shine for consistency and hoping for a trip). Spotdodge and shield feels much easier to use and the potential rewards are greater (Wario's Dair is a rare exception as shielding and spotdodging do crap against it).
On the other hand, Camaman made good use of it and WASN'T punished much for it at all. The crouch -> grounded Shine against Wario's Dair bomb was lulzy. Despite his success with it, I'm still not sold on grounded Shine. It feels like you have to make a hard read, in which case you might as well do something more rewarding (hypen Usmash lulz). Opinions?
Any other comments on his matches? Given that Camaman played a top player and was recommended as a top Wolf player in http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267925, I'm curious as to what other Wolf players think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HoSTcMEQMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75NJcASd0mQ
EDIT: Match 5 was D:. Fiction just started reading Camaman. Those Shines didn't help.
So about the Camaman videos.
I agree that more Fair would have been nice. However, it is important to take matchup considerations into account.
SH retreating Fair means a loss of stage control if it doesn't successfully hit. It's fine if you hold much of center stage, but it can quickly put you in a terrible position.
When Wario is doing a SH towards you from further away, he can AD right before he gets into your Fair range. If you Fair at this time, Wario's AD will avoid it and he will land before you for a free punish. With his air mobility, it isn't that big of a commitment as he can quickly retreat. Hell, this also makes FH pretty difficult (he gets beneath you) as you're practically forced to retreat to the edge of the stage or get punished.
Your best bet against this is to either predict the jump and SH laser it, predict it and SH before he does for a FF Bair, or wait it out and punish the landing frames with Fsmash/Usmash/hyphen Usmash/DACUS/laser. If you really want to do a keepaway game with an aerial, SH Bair is safer despite the lower priority as you can at least DJ away or Shine or Jumpshine against this (though it still puts you in a bad position). Crossovers are also a possibility, but they carry their own risk if the opponent can react to it fast enough.
If Wario does a SH towards you and you are a little bit too close, his Fair will outspeed Wolf's and interrupt it. Retreating Jumpshine is nice here, as is dash away -> whatever.
Warios also like to approach at an angle with FH and maybe DJ, mixing up Dair/Uair/Bite/AD safely away. Our Fair isn't very useful against this either. Of course, depending on the situation, you have other options like SH FF Uair, Utilt, Shine, JumpShine, HYPHEN USMASH (lulz), etc.
Still, despite our options, my point is that SH Fair is not the answer to everything. Wario can make it VERY hard for you to abuse it. A bit more SH Fair would have been nice nonetheless though.
As for the games, it felt like Fiction was being a bit overly aggressive and getting hurt for it. Wolf should not be landing that many hyphen Usmashes against Wario's Dair bomb given that he can AD away instead. I've tried that on my roommate before with meh results (both of us suck at this game, but still it was hard to land more than once a match). Overall though, Camaman did better when he
- Punished the over-aggression with Usmashes (damage and setups). The amount of whiffed punish attempts in the first match that could have been Usmashes...
- Used FH less (harder for Wario to move in and combo the hell out of you)
- Successfully baited with Shine, AD, etc. a LOT (cause more aggression to be punished)
- Stayed under platforms in Battlefield (limited Wario approaches)
That he did SH FF AD more than SH FF Bair isn't that bad actually. Wario's ground range isn't that great, so it's safer than against other characters. As long as the opponent fears the possibility of SH FF Bair (like when Camaman baited out the shield drop with SH FF AD and Fsmashed it), I think this is a decent mixup.
I was really interested in his Shine usage actually. I'm not sure that Shine bait would work against a lot of opponents, but it's apparently viable against good players who are aggressive enough. I laughed when the Wario whiffed a shieldgrab against a spaced Shine (totally did not know that was possible).
Grounded Shine though is something I've been curious about ever since I first learned about the invincibility frames. The reward is just...mediocre for such a high risk (Jab combo is good, but you'll end up buffering Dtilt with grounded Shine for consistency and hoping for a trip). Spotdodge and shield feels much easier to use and the potential rewards are greater (Wario's Dair is a rare exception as shielding and spotdodging do crap against it).
On the other hand, Camaman made good use of it and WASN'T punished much for it at all. The crouch -> grounded Shine against Wario's Dair bomb was lulzy. Despite his success with it, I'm still not sold on grounded Shine. It feels like you have to make a hard read, in which case you might as well do something more rewarding (hypen Usmash lulz). Opinions?
Any other comments on his matches? Given that Camaman played a top player and was recommended as a top Wolf player in http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267925, I'm curious as to what other Wolf players think.
I was referring to what happened with Seagull.
oh yeah. edubz ***** seagull on his livestream iirc
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Yeah, I'm clearly god on Wi-Fi. Punishing rolling is hard on Wi-Fi.
Gah777
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
- Messages
- 1,053
yeah, wifi caters to noobs. Lag makes it harder to punish, shield, etc. and makes it easier to spam f-smash and projectiles and button mash
Sumer
Smash Ace
I haz a bunch of vids from this weekend's tourney. These are all pretty much pools and friendlies, so if I do dumb stuff or SD a lot that's why. lol
Here's like one of the first vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6U_l8jc88A
And here's anther's channel for more wolf vids and I have a couple other vids on there too:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AntherMoo
And be a couple I mean A LOT. XD
Here's like one of the first vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6U_l8jc88A
And here's anther's channel for more wolf vids and I have a couple other vids on there too:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AntherMoo
And be a couple I mean A LOT. XD
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
You had to play your sister in bracket????? That's terrible.
Sumer
Smash Ace
No, that was just a friendly. lol Most of my matches I'm just talking to the person or looking over at other stuff going on half the time. XD I don't really like taking games too seriously.
Also, any critiques would help I guess., so I can apply it to my wolf when I play again in 2 months. :3
Ch ch ch ch ch check it out!
It's a buncha ch ch ch ch choice videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLWJeB8UYQk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SIKs8sW_Ao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BqZvG1MMT4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sV1k4y71Ts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dXQbHkCZnM
It's a buncha ch ch ch ch choice videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLWJeB8UYQk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SIKs8sW_Ao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BqZvG1MMT4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sV1k4y71Ts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dXQbHkCZnM
I liked the usage of SH shine vs Peach a lot in Choice's vids :3 Sky really needs to learn how to DI fair though
OP will be updated before the end of the weekend, PROMISE.
OP will be updated before the end of the weekend, PROMISE.