The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

[Kinzer]

Thanks for the advice Infzy.

I think what happened was I was getting desperate. I had to find some way to get damage on him, or I would lose to time. I was not going to take that, no sir. I also noticed I did a lot of backrolls, I even recall one instance where he just grabbed me out of it.

And as for not properly punishing him, I put the blame on fear of getting punished for my punisher. D:

 

[JayBee]

baahahahhahahaa good stuff Kinzer

for anyone who doesn't care to watch all 3 vids: at least watch the last 20seconds of the last vid. wowwww


kinzer you got predictable with your overuse of spindashes. I mean, it's not necessarily bad that you were abusing spindash like crazy (since it seemed to work lol), but I think you used a particular pattern with it when you were doing this, particularly in the 1st vid, hmmm idk maybe I'm wrong. But you fought well. There are some times when wario was doing something obviously punishable but you failed to punish, prolly just matchup inexperience, or maybe I'm wrong, I'm talking about like when he'd miss an Fsmash. Also in I think the 1st/2nd vid a couple times you Uthrow'd at low percent and he learned to expect you to follow up right away and so would airdodge, you should have noticed that and then waited for the airdodge and attacked afterwards. hmm maybe that only happened once tho

good stuff

the ASCs worked pretty well in this set. and i liked the pressure it had on wario's shield with the additional hits, so that even if wario blocked, hed still eat a combo. kinzer was patient, which is what you need in the matchup because Wario seems to aircamp and run away even more in the sonic matchup. Wario's mobiliy in the air rivals sonic's ground mobility tho, plus he lacks sonic's closing speed, so a defensive mindset in understandable. i was hating the wario at the last match though. no intention to approach whatsoever, he had the nerve to taunt too, being down 0-2.? serves him right. since the ASC was DI'd away from wario, it helps punish better against wario's low range moves, and him just letting it fall to the ground and away was a nice mixup. he didn't go for spring followups, which is good because they do not work on wario at all, and he never got tricked into a fartKO much either, so that slowed wario's offense down. i think this set shows to me how good sonic's mobility is, and how little range warios moves are.

they should call this segment, "when good sonic's get mad"

 

[Camalange]

Kinzer, that is the greatest thing you've ever done.

Ever.

 

[Trent]

Kinzer, that is the greatest thing you've ever done.

Ever.

Seconded.

10seconds

 

[WedginatorX]

Lol aight I just gotta say GOOD **** KINZER!
"Attention scrubs of the Vegas Smash zone... your king has arrived!" And his name is Kinzer.

One evil doctor down, one campy green bird to go O_o

 

[Mr. Johan]

One evil doctor down, one campy green bird to go O_o

Which one? The speed-campy Jet, or the bomb-campy Bean?

Anyway...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYk7qGwdTM0 - Sonic Storm (Sonic) vs. ElNoNombreHombre (Pikachu) - I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48w_VNbD-h0 - Sonic Storm (Sonic) vs. ElNoNombreHombre (Pikachu) - II (He labeled me as ROB that match, but I did go Sonic)

Two matches with an online buddy. Lag wasn't completely horrendous, but still, it's wi-fi. The audio is out of sync in the videos as well.

We did have another Sonic/Pika match on Delfino, but it timed out, and I think ENNH is uploading that right now.

Anyway, tips? Things not to do? Methods to approach? Anything helps.

 

[da K.I.D.]

as far as the sonic pikachu match, I guess I would be the expert... but give you some tips later, and the other guys can give you general stuff to improve on.

 

[chaoechidna]

Kinzer man, that was amazing. Ive never thought of playing sonic in that way before, the endless spins and spin cancel combos, i think ill use that when i'm losing to turn the tide of battle. It seems like it worked really really well for you and i gotta try it out next time i play. It may be as broken as meta's nado, lol.

 

[Kinzer]

Guys, please don't make anything out of it, it was just his lulzy campy Wario. :<

Uhm, in any case, Chao, you have to find what works against your opponent. It won't help you to imitate my style and hope it will work because not every opponent plays like SK92's Wario. Different things will work on different people.

If you really want to be successful, master Sonic and everything he has in his arsenal, and find what works for you.

 

[WedginatorX]

@ SonicStorm
Alright Josh, let me see here. First of all... you need more aerials. IMO pikachu is really easy to juggle with uair, and once you get below pika he is generally screwed if he isn't smart with his dodge timing. You can try to run by and SHFFUair or SHFair him; both have a decent chance to hit and then you can juggle him with uair, or you can just spindash to uair... even though that ain't too 3030-more 2008- it still works. And then just attempt to juggle the pika around a bit. It isn't guarenteed to work though, but it works on pretty much the only pika in my state who is rather legit. Also, you rolled too much. Pika can punish those rolls easy with smashes or whatever the heck it wants. Just don't roll. Simple enough. Additionally, lrn2wait for hits from pika's attacks to stop banging on your shield until you release to grab or whatever your doing OoS. That way you can't be punished for trying to shieldgrab lol. Also, idk if this is always 100% certain, but normally when I shield pika's dsmash for all of the hits when I'm close in towards the center of the attack, I'm able to fsmash the pika after the hitbox is pretty much gone, and I've actually got a kill that way before. Uh... I'll put up the replay on youtube of me playing against the pika I mentioned earlier. The only ones I have saved vs. this pika are wifi unfortunately :l I haven't brought my wii to a tournament yet.

 

[Kuraudo]

lmao

Kinzer spin cancels and gets praised. I spin cancel and get told "lol stop that", fff

jk, I know I was farther back when doing them. Whatever works for everyone, right?

I say you challenge SK92's Falco to a MM next time. I think you could do it. Anyone could if they tried hard enough. And clearly you played the campy Wario match-up just right. Play the Flaco match-up right and add another win to your belt.

 

[Camalange]

I was praising the absurd ending.


I highly disagree with chaoechidna about abusing spin cancels. It will not work against people that know what they're doing against Sonic.

 

[Kuraudo]

Hence why I was joking. XD

Though is it just me? Or did SK92 either give up, or try and stall for the end of the match?

Spin Cancels from the air aren't good if it's a character who can hit you while in mid-air. Case and point, Marth. You're putting yourself in a bad position.

 

[Kinzer]

The clock was really low when he tried to hang out offstage. Without asking him what his train of thought was in those last minutes, I have to assume that he thought that trying to make it back to the stage would have him risk me hitting him and somehow making a comeback. Sonic's damage output is really bad outside of ASC combos, we all know this, but if I were him I think I would've done the same thing.

He would've won if he had a fully charged fart. Unfortunately for him that's wasn't the case.

I also have no idea what I myself was thinking when I hit him with the Spring projectile. I just wanted to get back onstage because I thought he was going to play some mindgame, and I'm glad I did. If I had used anything but a sex-kicked Nair, a Fair that doesn't connect with the last hit, or a (sourspot?) Bair that would send him towards the blastzone (and risk not outright killing him), he would've DIed that and he would've had enough time assuming he replayed the air-stall strategy. You could see that I was prepared to edgehog him if he did try to get back to the ledge. There was money on the line, I wasn't going to side-taunt him only to have him make it back to the ledge, and have the clock run out with him in the lead.

I am also glad that I didn't decide to run to the edge of the other side of FD and instead stop just short and Fair. I might've ended up using Dash Attack or risk missing a running grab and/or not racking up enough damage to put me in the lead and then have many many other things go wrong in such short time.

And Kuraudo, just for you, I'll challenge SK92 to a MM with his proper main. I am very skeptical I could do any damage, but that is what I also thought when I challenged his Wario, and look what happened.

 

[chaoechidna]

I was praising the absurd ending.


I highly disagree with chaoechidna about abusing spin cancels. It will not work against people that know what they're doing against Sonic.

True true, i just want to give this a shot though. I've never been a fan of spin cancels and stuff only cause the people i play against have gotten so used to them. But to see a highly skilled player like SK92, despite using wario (which wario boards btw say has a HUGE advantage over sonic, and he really does) and not his signature falco, still lost to sonic. And kinzer used spin cancels for the majority of those matches (though not so much for the 3rd one, and that was close!), so he had plenty of time to get used to the attack pattern, yet it still worked very very well. Kinzer, you did an amazing job, i'd become frustrated with playing in that style and taking the full time to get the job done, but you held in there and didn't get overly kill happy or anything! It was very impressive. But i really have to try the style, ill prob use it as a switch up in the middle of a match, to throw my opponent off. Kinz, don't worry, im not stealin your style, as i said, im no good with the patience part unless i'm in the lead, so my ASC and SC will be differently placed. I use them sparingly through my matches right now, but after seeing this, i really think i have to use them more often, see if they work as well as they did here. Good job kinz, i was really impressed with that, esp your ability to keep your cool under intense pressure, somehting that i have a LOT of trouble with.

 

[BSP]

Hence why I was joking. XD

Though is it just me? Or did SK92 either give up, or try and stall for the end of the match?

Spin Cancels from the air aren't good if it's a character who can hit you while in mid-air. Case and point, Marth. You're putting yourself in a bad position.

I know. Spindash has like no disjoint, and will lose ti just about anything *cough snake utilt*

Kid who are you asking? I'm guessing Sonicstorm but that was a page ago, whatever

@Storm

I think you should use U throw more. Not only is that a solid 12%, but it puts the opponent at a disadvantage. Sonic's u air is good for juggling, and it can beat pretty much anything if is spaced correctly. When you got him in the air, you just waited for him to come back most of the time. If that works, keep it up, but I think you should capitalize whenever your opponent is above you(chase them). Maybe you should throw in some more ASCs as well.

 

[da K.I.D.]

by the way dude, are you coming to our tournament?

also, who ever said that shielding all of pikachus down smash gives you a guaranteed f smash out of shield was right.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

also, who ever said that shielding all of pikachus down smash gives you a guaranteed f smash out of shield was right.

ages ago or recently? I do that all the time.
You 'prolly already know this but you can dodge a high thunder by springing over the top stage boundary.

 

[Tstyle]

Tstyle (Sonic) vs Blayd (Luigi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixVOu88TC-A

Me vs the best german Luigi =)
This was 2 months ago ^^ and online :O

 

[da K.I.D.]

@ the pikachu comment
but dont try it unless ur already in kill range, the two times ive tried that move have resulted in me dying at 15%

 

[Mr. Johan]

I think I've done that before, killing in the end lag of the D-smash. But I don't like to risk it in case I'm two frames too ate, and the other guy can sidestep in time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGpJG42bmzA&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bHZEsHWmgw&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV11X5JsLOE&feature=channel

three more matches with the same person. Looking at the Delfino Brawl, I can see one of my biggest problems is just standing there after I send them off the stage or whatever. But it's mainly because I don't want to get out-prioritized by whatever attack the other guy can use, so I just don't risk it. Any ideas on what to do to keep pressure on?

 

[Espy Rose]

Updated with a ****ton of new videos. I removed the New!! tag from all of the videos, so anything with the tag still on them was updated today.

Enjoy the videos, and keep them coming.

 

[JayBee]

*fixed

lol. your wit amuses me sir.
+10 steak points for you.
spend them wisely.

 

[B!squick]

Not sure if they're here, but I just watched the vids of Espy vs. Razer at Hobo 21 and I must say, I don't think their's many match ups that are as cool to watch as Sonic blazing trails through a butt load of explosions. The vids really needed some music though. Something of John Williams caliber.

 

[Kuraudo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZQiunrxDDk

[EDIT]

I had a buncha stuff here, but. Meh.

Boxob might wanna favor this though. lol

 

[Tstyle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZQiunrxDDk

[EDIT]

I had a buncha stuff here, but. Meh.

Boxob might wanna favor this though. lol

Really nice Sonic :D
i think you play a bit like me, you only use much more bair xD

 

[Kuraudo]

Shado. X. I'm comin' for you.

Spoiler

no homo

 

[JayBee]

wooooooooooooooooooooooooow.
YO KURADOOOOOOO!!!
you love upairs just as much as i do, i love it, it sets up so nicely for other moves aftwards, even if it misses. that's like how i fought against 22 at bolts. except that i banned brinstar.

seriously, its like an obsitcale course you can't run through. dont let snake have that stage if you can help it.

 

[Kuraudo]

What? D:

I know that wasn't Lime's best performance (he plays far better when focused, plenty of people here can vouche for that), but... At least it looked good?

[EDIT]

! Thanks for the insight! All I remember is that if you're Wario, and you take Snake to Brinstar, ggz, Wario wins. Lmao

When he told me he was gonna CP Brinstar if he lost the first match, I didn't know what to expect. After 3-stocking him, I thought he'd try to go for Halberd or something, so I banned that. Then he picked Brinstar. I thought I was in trouble...

Of course, if I lost, he banned Yoshi's Island, so, that'd leave me with something like Pictochat or something idk. XD

 

[JayBee]

ah, then you banned the right stage then.

 

[Kuraudo]

Yeah. Sure, Sonic recovers from beneath the floating main platform, but it's not worth it when a Snake Up Tilt kills at stupider percents.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if any of you were wondering why sonic is second to last on japans tier list.

i have other vids of him, hes a prominent MK player



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSNbhvM-Xl8

 

[Camalange]

if any of you were wondering why sonic is second to last on japans tier list.

i have other vids of him, hes a prominent MK player



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSNbhvM-Xl8

but.

haven't they heard of RATS??

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

lol. I love you Karaudo. <3

 

[Browny]

Karaudo nice vid... but really, theres such a huge gap in skill difference there its instantly noticeable lol.

uair is too good vs snake Also for everyone else, what do u think of fair vs a snake who pulls out a nade? I use it really often and find it works well. It almost always shield pokes and if you space it from max range, the final hit of fair has enough shield kncokback such that you can jump away after the fair and not get punished. it wont blow up grenades in his hand and he cant ftilt oos but I suspect he could dash grab, im not sure how that works with a grenade in hand though

 

[JayBee]

the funny thing is that sonic's small hitbox shaped moves work for him in this matchup against snakes that abuse grenade cooking (aka the good ones) Spin Dash specials, and fair, as well as back throw can avoid the grenade in hand, and add on the shield pressure, which also works against snake when he has to hold the nade in his shield as well as makes the sidedodges more predicable. I've known that for a while DJB


KID, that was a horrible sonic. i laughed. alot. the second kill was inexcusable.

 

[Kuraudo]

@ DJBrowney

Lime is actually more skilled then what shows in that video. I wouldn't say that he was sandbagging, but when Jamie finds himself in the zone, I'm positive these matches woulda been far closer.

A vids a vid. So. /shrug

 

[da K.I.D.]

Im working on a new semi camp anti snake strategy.

ill let you know how it goes.

 

[JayBee]

i wonder what it is...

 

[ShadoFiend]

Im working on a new semi camp anti snake strategy.

ill let you know how it goes.

walk. and wait 2 throw back grenades?