The West MI Thread / Make Plans Here - PM Tourney: Red Edition

[Sarix]

You mean GrandLAN (or maybe Skynet)? That's where I hosted Lake Effect. I really don't want to go back there, the owner is really grimy and a lot of people complained about the venue at the last tournament.
There are probably other places but I don't have a car so it's kinda hard to go scout around. Super is pretty on point.

Oh god Grand LAN, that place is terrible for hosting anything. If you need help looking for venues Root you should contact me. Nothing eventful has been happening for the last two months so I would have a car we could use to scout in.

 

[Arcalyth]

man I should probably get on Skype more often

edit: yo sarix, PM me your phone number?

 

[lordhelmet]

95% of the people who stopped playing Brawl stopped playing because they were bad. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate on anybody personally for dropping the game. I would still go to Brawl events if somebody would wise up support it, but I do find PM more fun because:

1. Falcon isn't ass
2. I can rushdown and combo
3. Brawl is old, PM is new and refreshing

The only people who still play Brawl are the top 4 (Jason, fZk, myself, Amity). So what does that say about you? Just because you play a different game doesn't change anything about your skill. It's about how much work you put into the game and NOTHING else makes a difference when you look at the bigger picture.

Secondly, PM is NOT balanced. Stop pretending it is or ever will be. If you lose, you lose. Don't john because you play as the 5th worst character in the game - that's only cutting yourself short. Sometimes you have to pick a better character to compete. I grew as a player tenfold after I picked up Meta Knight because I stopped johning and began to realize that I lost not because I was Captain Falcon, but because the people I was losing to put more time into the game and were simply better than I was.

Thirdly, no one is obligated to host Brawl or PM or Mario Kart. Though I reserve the right to call you a bad TO if you lack the foresight to expand the games you support at your events.

 

[JTsm]

I mean, I admit, I"m garbage at Brawl. But like.... the way P:M is making Snake is ****ing awesome. I would much rather play a game where the developers are trying to make the game competitive and I still suck ass. I have so much drive for P:M. All the drive of trying to play seriously in Brawl has diminished and I'm not afraid to admit that I'm still garbage either way.

 

[stewyian]

Why are people hurt that we haven't been running brawl? A lot of us have realized that brawl isn't a balanced game, and that's just the sad truth about it. You wanna be good? Then you can't necessarily look at the entire roster and play whoever you like. You could, but in most cases, you're setting yourself up for failure.
Then to be told to run a tournament for it when you're trying to learn a different game? Melee is far more comparable to P:M than brawl, and has the same sort of speed and hype to it that P:M generates. This can, in some ways, appeal to Melee players more and appeal to P:M players because it's more like the game they most often play. I realize brawl can, in some cases, do that. But that's it; it's all about the circumstance.
In some match-ups, you're FORCED to play a different character if you want to have any chance of winning. It's join or die. I'm not against running a brawl side event (in fact, that's what I had planned for my next house tournament), but I see no reason for people to believe P:M players should feel it's their "obligation" to host brawl side events for brawl players. That's ridiculous to say.
Lots of people are migrating to a game where the effort is constantly towards a point of balance, and I find that a good thing. Suddenly, it doesn't become about a game where you're forced to a pick a different character, or to go to a certain stage just to have a chance at winning. It puts people on a more level ground. A lot of people did switch over to P:M because they were bad at brawl, but I don't see how that's any different from people switching from their main to MK in a 2/3 so that they can more easily obtain a win. He's SS tier for a reason.
Roller's post about picking up a high tier in order to prove you actually have a desire to win and don't wish to set yourself up for a failure is a sad truth, and one that I refused to accept simply because I played the game for a specific character. I'd like to reference this as an idea: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-matchup-chart-v3-0.338390/

Wanna play Ganondorf? Look how this puts it into perspective for your chances of victory.

Wanna play MK? Yeah, I thought so.

Wanna quit brawl? I don't blame you.

I won't hate on Brawl players. Heck, I still play the game for fun sometimes. No one is, in any way, obligated to run a tournament for it though. You want a brawl tournament around in West Michigan? Host it. I'll help with a side event in my own tournament, but I won't host a straight-up, main brawl tournament. I'm always also willing to help with any brawl tournaments going around here. Hosting a melee side-event could generate the same amount, if not more players than brawl could in its own right as well. To say Brawl would get you more, especially in West MI, seems rather bold to say. It could, but it's not a definite truth.

pm is unbalanced melee is unbalanced just as much bro keep tellin ur self pm is more balanced than brawl or melee is as well lmfao

 

[SoulPech]

i mean,

This happens when you make a party game competitive amirite?

imo all the games are pretty unbalanced.

 

[RED6]

pm is unbalanced melee is unbalanced just as much bro keep tellin ur self pm is more balanced than brawl or melee is as well lmfao

Lmfao. If you say so. I don't take smash seriously, just making clear observations with logic. Take it, or leave it. I see no fault in defending the thought that they wish for a balanced game. They're constantly putting in effort to do their best to do so, that's enough for me.

 

[rsr2]

You guys are so cute when you state your opinions <3

 

[Damittom]

Lmfao. If you say so. I don't take smash seriously, just making clear observations with logic. Take it, or leave it. I see no fault in defending the thought that they wish for a balanced game. They're constantly putting in effort to do their best to do so, that's enough for me.

What logic are you using to suggest PM is anymore balanced than Brawl? Please show me where this magical value in the code is located so I can see this evidence. The only difference between PM and Brawl that you are providing is that PM is still supported by the creators. However, so are other traditional fighting games and they aren't anymore balanced either. Suggesting that a game still being supported by its creators is any more balanced (or even will become more balanced) than one that is not supported is wrong.

Also Root, Brawl's metagame is still progressing just as fast as Melee's the belief that it has mellowed out it so wrong. Every major tournament has new techniques being shown and players innovating their respective characters. Things such as Diddy's infinite is being changed and perfected every day. New Ice Climber Desyncs are being invented everyday. New Snake Traps are being thought of in every match. To say Brawl's metagame has stalled is the mindset of someone who has already written of the game without even looking past the surface.

Also I Lordy has forgotten about me. I wasn't even mentioned in his people that still play Brawl post. T_T

 

[lordhelmet]

Also I Lordy has forgotten about me. I wasn't even mentioned in his people that still play Brawl post. T_T

>Oversimplied post to save 30 minutes

There are plenty of others who still play Brawl, I only mentioned the people who matter

 

[rsr2]

I thought I mattered to you Lordy : (

 

[Sarix]

While the P:M dev team does want to make the game as balanced as possible, Smash has never been a very balanced game in any of its incarnations. What sets it apart from an incredibly balanced game like Guilty Gear or Blazblue for example is that both of those ArcSys titles have multiple universal system mechanics that everyone has access to for keeping each other in check. To list some basic ones:

Burst: Simple enough, if you're under a lot of pressure or eating a combo you can use your burst to blow the opponent away from you. After that you have to wait a fairly long time or take a lot of combos before you can use it again. Offensively this can be used to knock an opponent back and completely fill your Tension(meter) gauge. However a good opponent can grab you out of your burst so you have to use it wisely.

Faultless Defense (FD): At the cost of draining your Tension per secondish you are immune to chip damage and the opponent gets pushed back further for each attack you block. However without tension this option isn't available.

Guard Meter: This is major safeguard against infinites and 2 hit confirm kill combos, but it also punishes overly defensive players. The more damage you take the more the meter decreases which decreases the damage you take each hit. The more attacks you block the higher the gauge climbs and the more damage you take when you fail to block. This meter is always 50% full and wanders back from however much it just increased or decreased after a short amount of time. This also makes FD more useful b/c it doesn't raise the guard meter.

Negative Penalty: The bane of runaway and stalling strategies. If a player is constantly using defensive actions like back-dashing and walking backwards over a period of time they will be given this condition. This completely drains their tension and they only gain 20% of the meter they normally would for 10 seconds. If you're zoning with projectiles and backdashing you will not be penalized b/c you are making consistent offensive actions.

Tension: Meter basically. Outside of supers characters can use 25% tension for Force Breaks which are enhanced special attacks which can be more useful than supers for some characters.

With just these basic system mechanics it's easy to go nuts with character designs and play styles while the basic system keeps them from being too dominant. I'm not saying Smash should have this but b/c Smash lacks similar system safeguards like this it's a much more difficult game to balance or make balanced. A powerful trait or traits can let a character snowball into a problem for the rest of the cast quite easily.

Just my two cents in the balance issues in Smash outside of P:M's metagame being its fetal stages still.

 

[Damittom]

>Oversimplied post to save 30 minutes

There are plenty of others who still play Brawl, I only mentioned the people who matter

 

[RED6]

What logic are you using to suggest PM is anymore balanced than Brawl? Please show me where this magical value in the code is located so I can see this evidence. The only difference between PM and Brawl that you are providing is that PM is still supported by the creators. However, so are other traditional fighting games and they aren't anymore balanced either. Suggesting that a game still being supported by its creators is any more balanced (or even will become more balanced) than one that is not supported is wrong.

Also Root, Brawl's metagame is still progressing just as fast as Melee's the belief that it has mellowed out it so wrong. Every major tournament has new techniques being shown and players innovating their respective characters. Things such as Diddy's infinite is being changed and perfected every day. New Ice Climber Desyncs are being invented everyday. New Snake Traps are being thought of in every match. To say Brawl's metagame has stalled is the mindset of someone who has already written of the game without even looking past the surface.

Also I Lordy has forgotten about me. I wasn't even mentioned in his people that still play Brawl post. T_T

Lol, I hope you forgive me for not bothering. I'd rather agree to disagree, (Though, not on the brawl metagame still progressing bit) but I'm done here.

 

[whitmorethetoadpirate]

So you enjoy eatching brawl games with possibly the most campy characters in the game and don't enjoy watching one of the most aggresive characters in the game? Then go on to say that the reason you don't like watching/playing it is because of the slow passed campyness of the game??


Mind ****ing blown.

Dip.

I dunno, I just like watching Icies getting a grab, and the only MKs I've ever seen play just use tornado over and over, trying to get the opponent's shield worn down. I guess I've just been watching players that play the characters differently than they are usually played (L-Cancel doesn't camp when I watch him play oli, the Icies I've seen don't seem to camp). It's like the difference between silent wolf's fox and kels' fox. Silent wolf is very aggressive while kels will camp with lasers all day long. Different people playing the same character in vastly different ways.

And you clearly didn't read the post very clearly because I said I do like watching the game, even when it is somewhat campy due to the fact that there are a lot of factors at play. I said that others (diehard melee/p:m players) don't like watching it. Should probably read posts more thoroughly before commenting.

 

[L_Cancel]

I fully support the Project: M scene and I do want to see it prosper. I respect the community and the players. I do enjoy brawl, and play it as my primary game. I do enjoy smash in all forms, and enjoy the tourney environment even if it isn't my primary game. Recently I have put an immense amount of time into PM, and believe I will soon be a tournament contender. At the end of the day, I wish we could have both games available and thriving in West MI. I think people would be surprised how much knowledge can be transferred between both games. Also those interested in being good at Smash 4 probably will want experience in as many games as possible. Also, PM is working towards balance, but it's far from balanced atm. MY THOUGHTS.

 

[Gifts]

I dunno, I just like watching Icies getting a grab, and the only MKs I've ever seen play just use tornado over and over, trying to get the opponent's shield worn down. I guess I've just been watching players that play the characters differently than they are usually played (L-Cancel doesn't camp when I watch him play oli, the Icies I've seen don't seem to camp). It's like the difference between silent wolf's fox and kels' fox. Silent wolf is very aggressive while kels will camp with lasers all day long. Different people playing the same character in vastly different ways.

And you clearly didn't read the post very clearly because I said I do like watching the game, even when it is somewhat campy due to the fact that there are a lot of factors at play. I said that others (diehard melee/p:m players) don't like watching it. Should probably read posts more thoroughly before commenting.

Watch any top level MK and I assure you that they don't just spam tornado over and over...

Sorry was posting on my phone and didn't fully see the entire context of your message.

 

[SoulPech]

I think the most balanced smash game is Melee: SDR

 

[L_Cancel]

Also, any interest in that Kzoo tourney on the 27th?? Super, Benji, Root, Lordy, Jtsm, etc???

 

[W.C.N]

So what I got from all that is west mi is bad at brawl, probably pm too, and that low/mid tiers should have been the side event option, then all west mi would see its the player not the character as to why their losing.

How can you say it's the tier of their char when a yoshis won a tourney and a Ganon won an MK banned one?

 

[whitmorethetoadpirate]

Also, any interest in that Kzoo tourney on the 27th?? Super, Benji, Root, Lordy, Jtsm, etc???

Uh, I probably should have requested the day off to make sure that I could go, but we'll see if I can make it. If it ends early enough I can probably go, or if I get out of the bracket quickly enough. I can provide transportation there and I could probably pick you up along the way Jason (this is Benji if you didn't know).

 

[Sarix]

Also, any interest in that Kzoo tourney on the 27th?? Super, Benji, Root, Lordy, Jtsm, etc???

With some more info I'd be up for going. I'm sure everyone would love another pot filler lol.

 

[whitmorethetoadpirate]

With some more info I'd be up for going. I'm sure everyone would love another pot filler lol.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-27th-2013-bernhard-center-105-series.338388/

Not sure how many people will be going, but there's the page for it.

 

[Solharath]

There is nothing I'd like more to go, but my boss is pretty much the worst ever and is now actively working to ignore my Requested Days Off. In response I'm looking for new work, but even so, I can't make it to K-Zoo, even though I initially planned on it, and requested it off.

Gonna have to find a different ride than me, L.

 

[L_Cancel]

Alright Benji!

 

[whitmorethetoadpirate]

Don't get too excited. I have work at 10 on Saturday, but I might be able to convince them to let me come in at midnight. We'll see, but if they don't let me then I'll be able to at least give people rides there and play some friendlies to get in practice. If you want to go back later then I won't be your best bet for that

 

[SoulPech]

y'all should come to my tourney on the 27th.

 

[whitmorethetoadpirate]

I'd love to, but it's in OH and I'm in the middle of MI

 

[SoulPech]

why not carpool? That's how I get to Michigan.

 

[whitmorethetoadpirate]

Well like I said I have work at 10 on the 27th and might be able to get it pushed back to midnight at the latest. So there's no way that I'd be able to go to a tourney in OH unless you want to start it at 6 or 7 in the morning.

 

[Arcalyth]

Also, any interest in that Kzoo tourney on the 27th?? Super, Benji, Root, Lordy, Jtsm, etc???

yes, if I don't work
Sarix said he'd drive me
Rh1thmz wants me to TO for PM
I'll find out if I work on Sat tonight or tomorrow, GR/surrounding should discuss transportation logistics

I'd probably bring McK with me and two setups.

 

[whitmorethetoadpirate]

yes, if I don't work
Sarix said he'd drive me
Rh1thmz wants me to TO for PM
I'll find out if I work on Sat tonight or tomorrow, GR/surrounding should discuss transportation logistics

I'd probably bring McK with me and two setups.

If you TO, please make sure no one delays the tourney so I can actually compete in it :D

 

[Sarix]

yes, if I don't work
Sarix said he'd drive me
Rh1thmz wants me to TO for PM
I'll find out if I work on Sat tonight or tomorrow, GR/surrounding should discuss transportation logistics

I'd probably bring McK with me and two setups.

I can probably bring a 3rd set up as well Root.

EDIT: My car seats 5.

 

[whitmorethetoadpirate]

Yeah, so I guess I won't have a car on Saturday so I don't know if I could make it out to the Kzoo tourney, unless someone was already going to leave early and would be able to get me back home. Oh well, just another tourney missed because work/transportation blows, nothin' new.

 

[L_Cancel]

Benjiiiii noooo ;~;

 

[Deleted member]

95% of the people who stopped playing Brawl stopped playing because they were bad. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate on anybody personally for dropping the game. I would still go to Brawl events if somebody would wise up support it, but I do find PM more fun because:

1. Falcon isn't ***
2. I can rushdown and combo
3. Brawl is old, PM is new and refreshing

The only people who still play Brawl are the top 4 (Jason, fZk, myself, Amity). So what does that say about you? Just because you play a different game doesn't change anything about your skill. It's about how much work you put into the game and NOTHING else makes a difference when you look at the bigger picture.

Secondly, PM is NOT balanced. Stop pretending it is or ever will be. If you lose, you lose. Don't john because you play as the 5th worst character in the game - that's only cutting yourself short. Sometimes you have to pick a better character to compete. I grew as a player tenfold after I picked up Meta Knight because I stopped johning and began to realize that I lost not because I was Captain Falcon, but because the people I was losing to put more time into the game and were simply better than I was.

Thirdly, no one is obligated to host Brawl or PM or Mario Kart. Though I reserve the right to call you a bad TO if you lack the foresight to expand the games you support at your events.

realness

 

[lordhelmet]

Can anyone update me on the tournament this weekend? What are carpools looking like? Attendance? Tourney thread link?

 

[Sarix]

Can anyone update me on the tournament this weekend? What are carpools looking like? Attendance? Tourney thread link?

Here's the link: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-27th-2013-bernhard-center-105-series.338388/

So far I'm possibly taking Root and Mck in my car assuming Root doesn't have to work on Saturday, apparently his job is really stupid about scheduling. If all goes well I would have 2 spots left in the back of my malibu hatchback.

 

[L_Cancel]

I may be interested, however I live in Rockford,which is a little out of the way in the wrong direction. XD

 

[Sarix]

I may be interested, however I live in Rockford,which is a little out of the way in the wrong direction. XD

I wouldn't mind the hike haha, you might just have to give me a little gas money and tell me in advance what you're planning on entering so I can get a decent amount of sleep.

EDIT: Update, Root, myself, and Mck will be going on Saturday. If anyone is desperate for a ride and willing to pay me gas money I have 2 spots.