The Wall - Game End.... no one wins?

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Y'know, I'm going to go ahead and say it's possible that scum went for Throne last Night.

I... totally forgot that option.

Catching up for a bit, just skimmed.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Right. Could you comment again? I'm not sure I've understood your take.

The no kill 2 nights in a row made me paranoid. But considering WtT was indy and had to be NKd by mafia for his wincon, it's very possible that he simply got shot in the BP and then killed? I don't even.

Anyway, it makes the situation less suspicious, while previously, it had me on my toes and very paranoid. Mhm. Gotta re-look at Kary.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

reasoning.

The optimal route for me would be Dh, not only does lynching him clear the air on the "unlynchable thing" but successive no kills ? Makes me think traitor with no kill as a possibility here.

I really doubt he's unlynchable when his wincons are pretty clear by now.

But yes, I do agree that his interactions with DH have been terrible.

if JTB's claim is true (not seeing any CC or alt. explanation for modvotes etc.)

then I can't see him as being scum, seems overpowered.

Tbh, Overswarm gives these types of roles more often in his games. See All-Stars.
But yeah, it does seem a little powerful, but it's overpowered as either faction. He gets a free lynch of choice in end-game, that's broken any way you view it.

Reasoning on JTB scum ?
It's not the fact that he's scum. It's the fact that if he survives the night, he gets to pick who gets lynched tomorrow. If there's a night kill, then that means gg if we don't kill JTB.

Seph's play is either uncannily ugly or scummy. I can't decide which.

See, this actually touches on a main complaint about your play.

Stances, commitment. What have you pushed this game? Like, really, really pushed. You've done this stuff at least 3 times this page. In fact, let me scroll up and look it up.

"You'd been talking about a 'surprise' for ages, and this is what you come out with? aanyways"

"'member of the town' =/= town aligned IMO but ehh"

"Seph's play is either uncannily ugly or scummy. I can't decide which."

And yes, I do have a problem with that.

Touching on the surprise. It was simply to draw in doc, that's all. Well, initially I had a plan with my ability (simply catching someone on lying about their wincon), but when that didn't work out I decided to keep it up for the protect. Simple.



Now, this is a rehash for the slow ones among us
JTB can throw two votes on someone, alright?
Today, we are with 6 players, so we need 4 to lynch. Alright?

Now, imagine JTB being antitown. Tomorrow comes and we are with 4 players.
How many do we need to lynch? 3.
How many votes can JTB throw on someone? 2.
Then JTB can vote himself.

That means we're pretty much forced to get JTB at this stage, but discussion is too valuable, especially with 2 inactives, so we're letting the day roll on.

So yeah, I noticed people didn't grasp the JTB concept. I hope you do now.

 

[JTB]

I don't have to target someone at night

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Here's the thing Seph, why would JTB as scum go straight for the person who said they could get a guilty on him as scum ?

Even if your the last one standing there is no way that JTB would avoid the eyes of every single player in the game, even with WtT flipping indy, the fact that he could have been telling the truth would sink JTB. That's why i aksed you why JTB is scum . Because even though I can see your fear on JTB , your essentially saying : let's hope DH or whoever is scum has no kill and lynch JTB on the policy that he solo alpha.

I still strongly believe the last scum was recruited, there is no other logical explanation that has been presented as to why there was no kill the first time, and the second time ? Well we are basically going on the hope that JTB has been no killing in order to set up this solo alpha, but think about it, as scum why wouldn't he target someone more like seph / NH over WtT who proclaimed he could sink him ? The only answer i see is that he freaked out, but it just seems to easy to draw a JTB scum conclusion from that, after all, killing someone would certainly help him solo alpha, and consider this : if JTB wanted to solo aplha, he coudl have done so with his action last night on me, I already had enough modvotes that his stacked on would end the day before it even began, thus taking us down to 5, then let's throw in the fact that he has a kill and that's 4, he throws 2 votes on someone at night, gets in the thread first and aplha's them, goes into the night with 3 alive and kills the last person.

So all in all, if JTB were scum , he could have won last night if he had a kill , and with that he could have actually killed 2 people (WtT with a reg NK and me with his ability , bringing town to 5 and ending the day before it began) then solo alphaing his way to victory.

Even without a kill, he could have aplha'd me at night, ending the dayPhase before it even began, now town is 5, he throws 2 votes on plus his own that's another solo alpha and 4 alive, same thing next day and night makes three, same thing next day and night and he wins. The only hiccup would be his ability to get in this thread the moment it opened in order to alpha his way to victory.

the fact that this didn't occur makes me hesitant to go for JTB based off what you just said alone.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

And really the only way i see it is in the case that JTB tried to make WtT unlynchable last night and did in fact try to alpha me , but WtT got mod-killed so the unlynchable went to me.

Which is really stretching and guessing on NA resolution / conflict , hence me not taking it as too viable an option.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I do understand your concern but as i said the fact that he could have won last night makes me very hesitant to just say: Let's lynch JTB just to be safe

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Y'know

if JTB wanted to solo aplha, he coudl have done so with his action last night on me, I already had enough modvotes that his stacked on would end the day before it even began, thus taking us down to 5, then let's throw in the fact that he has a kill and that's 4, he throws 2 votes on someone at night, gets in the thread first and aplha's them, goes into the night with 3 alive and kills the last person.

That's some nice thinking right there.
Haven't read your post in depth yet.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

FML

Okay that helped town a lot, FML. Thanks.


FML, talk to me about the playerlist. What do you expect out of the people alive? What do you want to talk about?
I'd like everyone to do this. Kary especially.
We're figuring this out today.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

remind

Handorin, you're viewing. Any comments besides wanting to get DH? I understand that it's annoying to play without any influence besides voice, but just help us, please.

Also, out of curiosity, what is your wincon?

 

[Handorin]

NH, don't throw away the DV on DH. He needs that DP. He needs to die today.

 

[Handorin]

Uhh, I'll give you my win con, but I can't really type up more since I'm at school

 

[Handorin]

So here is basically just a overall role claim.

Ryker
My global wincon is to have at least one member alive with this win condition when every member without this global win condition is dead

Each night I may choose a player. Upon choosing, I lose the ability to vote. This person gains the ability to doublevote when voting for a person of my choosing.
I can only post when I'm dead, no voting, etc.

My ind wincon is to convince one person to lynch someone using my ability, while dead.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I also forgot to add in that with 3 alive and a kill, he could kill at night throw two votes on and solo aplha the last town standing.

Pretty much at this point the only sort of scum i will consider on JTB is recruited with no kill, or some sort of mafia person that has no kill, but i definitely will not subscribe to the notion of JTB having a kill and not winning last night.

Now i will add that if he is scum and never thought of what i just did, I will Lmao , but essentially what i am saying is, if JTB were scum , he could have won last night and my thought process on that was not so complicated that a lazy scum JTB couldn't have thought of and executed it.

I know i's kind of weak PoE, but basically the fact that JTB didn't do exactly what I would do as scum with his ability is what is giving me a town read on him.

I expect a lot more arguing about you/Kary that fact that you two seem to have such close roles is going to be hot topic for a while i think , until we figure out who has what and if both of you were supposed to work together somehow ( i have heard of games with 2 cops were they ended up backing each other up and hbcing scum ). I also expect DH to continue to be a non-factor for all-intensive purposes (he hasn't been around much , why would that change now essentially).

What i would like is :

DH to out his scum picks and explain Kary fully (IIRC he has not done so to this point)
I'd like you and Kary to figure out your competing claims and such.

What i would like to discuss more :

Why kary is putting early Kantrip down as town
Who agress / disagrees and why ?

We are not rushing this day, we'll get scum but it will be at the right time and not rushing into lynches , town has a numbers advantage here and the last scum will be showing the effects of being alone (with IMO no kill).

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

there

Testing something before I'm rushing to work.

Vote: Handorin

Request votecount

 

[No Hetero]

I... totally forgot that option.

Catching up for a bit, just skimmed.

Hando, who would you lynch after DH on a town flip?

JTB, your lynch is being suggested in the case you're scum. If you're scum, you could hardly be trusted not to use your ability. What's the name of that ability, by the way?

FML, don't reason based on the idea that scum has no kill. There's no way mafia's hopes rested on July and/or Raz being alive with a killing ability, look at their inactivity. And if Raz had encountered that situation, he'd have used his experience from Pokemaf not to misplay that role. Scum has a kill.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

No idea why rake was doing such NH. why do you think scum hasn't gotten a successful kill through the past few nights(assuming the doc is not completely amazing)
also, what's your kary read?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Tbh, Overswarm gives these types of roles more often in his games. See All-Stars.
But yeah, it does seem a little powerful, but it's overpowered as either faction. He gets a free lynch of choice in end-game, that's broken any way you view it.

It's overpowered as any faction, therefore it's equally likely to be any alignment?
No.

One thing worth noting is that JTB may not be able to vote if he's used his ability. Just pointing that out. It should be clear now that if he had a vote and this ability, he could reasonably have won the game single-handedly already.

Stances, commitment. What have you pushed this game? Like, really, really pushed. You've done this stuff at least 3 times this page. In fact, let me scroll up and look it up.

"You'd been talking about a 'surprise' for ages, and this is what you come out with? aanyways"

"'member of the town' =/= town aligned IMO but ehh"

"Seph's play is either uncannily ugly or scummy. I can't decide which."

So, explain to me what YOU have pushed this game? I don't really follow how my thinking Soup is town, thinking July is scum, thinking NH is scum etc. constitutes 'not really pushing anything'. I've been about twice as vocal as most players in this game with what I think.
The things that you've quoted here aren't me fence-sitting, it's not me not having no opinion- it's me throwing my hands up at a line of questioning and saying 'there's no point pushing this any further'. Or should I just be leaping to conclusions on every issue?

Touching on the surprise. It was simply to draw in doc, that's all. Well, initially I had a plan with my ability (simply catching someone on lying about their wincon), but when that didn't work out I decided to keep it up for the protect. Simple.

So it did nothing, you were just all talk. What a ducking surprise.

So yeah, I noticed people didn't grasp the JTB concept. I hope you do now.

So I noticed that once your gambit on DH didn't pan out in his lynch, you tried to tie JTB's ability around his neck without actually questioning it any further.

... i'm not interested in you responding to any of this. I am fully aware you can handwave pretty much anything, so I don't want to pursue this. I have a couple other things I am looking at, I imagine I will get back to you with questions.

...

 

[FullMetalLynch]

been sitting here rereading kary/raz/july, and i really want to lynch kary. going over specifics with rake when he finally logs on, but getting little points together in our QT

 

[FullMetalLynch]

kary why did you call kantrip obvtown in your 490 when he had been everything but that at the time?

 

[No Hetero]

/confirming

Confirming that I don't remember anyone's claims at all.

NH, Evil Eye, waller
Seph, Pierre, wincon investigator
Kary, J, wincon investigator
JTB, marshy, Mr. Motivation
DH, someone, something
FML, someone, vanilla
Hando, Ryker, he's dead

Did no one else get a curse wincon?


FML, didn't Hando mention you had some sort of additional component to your wincon?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Both because I read him as obvtown, which he clearly was (hey look I can assume things as well)

and to reassure a player that I thought was town that the game was not already lost for him, that he could still keep contributing and playing

 

[FullMetalLynch]

we're nich. the tunneler.

i think hando said we had the same wincon as him except we didn't have the die part?
and he doesn't have to convince someone to wagon with him?

 

[JTB]

my ability is called confident coercion

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Both because I read him as obvtown, which he clearly was (hey look I can assume things as well)

and to reassure a player that I thought was town that the game was not already lost for him, that he could still keep contributing and playing

explain how he was obvtown at the time when nearly everyone except you wanted him dead. I'm not saying you didn't think he was town, but why you believed it to that degree

 

[No Hetero]

/confirming

JTB, do you have any reads? Who should be lynched toDay instead of you?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

also, what's your kary read?

oi No Hetero
also, maybe i should have phrased this as "would you be down to lynch him today"

 

[No Hetero]

DEMI

/confirming

Just remembered DH claimed Overswarm.

Hi ninja
I'm not really into a Kary lynch toDay at all.

Do you and Kary effectively have the same claimed wincon?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

explain how he was obvtown at the time when nearly everyone except you wanted him dead. I'm not saying you didn't think he was town, but why you believed it to that degree

because
a) his reads/pushes looked genuine
b) soup vs kantrip looked t v t
c) he was drawing a lot of attention to himself and didn't care how he looked
d) he obv-crumbed traitor and claimed unlynchable + has to die, which is ridiculously ballsy as scum

As I recall the only reason anyone wanted him dead was because they thought he'd crumbed traitor (which he had)

 

[FullMetalLynch]

DEMI
Just remembered DH claimed Overswarm.

Hi ninja
I'm not really into a Kary lynch toDay at all.

Do you and Kary effectively have the same claimed wincon?

don't remember his wincon, have the gut feeling we don't though.
are you pushing JTB for lynch today?

because
a) his reads/pushes looked genuine
b) soup vs kantrip looked t v t
c) he was drawing a lot of attention to himself and didn't care how he looked
d) he obv-crumbed traitor and claimed unlynchable + has to die, which is ridiculously ballsy as scum

As I recall the only reason anyone wanted him dead was because they thought he'd crumbed traitor (which he had)

fair enough

 

[No Hetero]

/confirming

Kary, how are you feeling on DH now? Who would you see go toDay?

 

[No Hetero]

I... totally forgot that option.

Catching up for a bit, just skimmed.

to jtb vote someone in your next post please and dont take it off til it appears on a votecount

 

[JTB]

vote: no hetero

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@NH; I see your question, but answer me this first, ok? There's a reason for this.

What's your read on Seph?
What did you think of Seph's play D2?

Cheers

 

[#HBC | Kary]

and in case it wasn't clear, i found something interesting on a close read.

while i'm at it,

@FML: what is your read of me vs. Seph- what alignments are involved? Ta.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

seph is town.
i think you're scum so obviously TVS

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Hmm ok, and our discussion reflects that we're TvS, that's not just based on your impression of each of us individually?

In addition, do you think I'm mafia or indy, or just can't say?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

likely more mafia than indy.
your personal interactions with him i haven't read recently, unless you are refering to something toDay?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

No, i'm just trying to gauge whether you think me vs seph could be a bus, or indy vs mafia, or anything like that, based on the interactions between us.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

nah, i don't see seph as being indy.