The Wall - Game End.... no one wins?

[FullMetalLynch]

We mass claim right after Seph's next post.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

@Kary: I want a night by night walk through of who you used your ability on, why you choose them and the results you got

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@DH: yes I do mind. It's not relevant given you vs. Seph right now, and I'm purposefully withoholding some information for the time being because my ability is similar to seph's.

@FML: dear god shut the **** up.
given one of seph/dh is lying, why are we mass-claiming?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Icky icky icky f'tang f'tang zoom. The sun breath marmalade unto the moon.

*bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronn tuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnu k

–O, I think Kary should have his head in the gutter soon than latter.

God damnit school starts tomorrow. Kary needs to die soon.

Yeah kary, I've kind of wanted you dead.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Why are you opposed to it ?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Almost forgot

Interior crocodile alligator
This game has a mafia traitor
Amphibious reptilian dirigible
My slot is virtually unlynchable

Kary's wall post. I know nothing about a mafia traitor.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

We are mass-claiming because we have 2 people who know win-cons, the possibility of one of two people lying about their wincons falt out and now the possibility of one of 2 people lying / not telling the entire truth behind the win-con copping.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I'll let you get your answers from Seph but we are absolutely mass claiming toDay.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

we're absolutely mass claiming?

even if we have a guilty on someone?

i mean, seriously, why do i bother.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

If we have a guilty then of course not >.>//
And i know that feel Kary.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

@Seph : what was Raz's win-con ?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Seph: please also tell me the exact wording of July's wincon. cheers.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Seph: please also tell me the reasoning behind you crumbing your results in the wall?

and whether your ability lets you know any wincons that someone may have which have been 'given' to them and thus not in their role pm

thank you

 

[No Hetero]

Wow this is peculiar. Interesting. Give me a second.

What the **** is going on?

Nabe, good job on picking up on Thronescum baby.

 

[No Hetero]

Working on a possible surprise. Give me a second.

I just read our wallpost, lol.

DO NOT END THE DAY BEFORE US/SEPHYPOO GET 10 POSTS IN. ANYONE WHO HAMMERS BEFORE THAT IS SCUM

 

[FullMetalLynch]

So NH, Who you like in DH vs. Seph ?
What do you think of the possibility of two roles who are win-con finders ?

 

[No Hetero]

Working on a possible surprise. Give me a second.

FML, lemme talk to Nabe about this.

Can someone dumb down what the mother**** is going on between Seph/DHorse and this guilty malarkey? Right now I just woke up and don't feel like thinking this much.

N1: "I'm keeping an eye on you " - breadcrumbing Evil Eye

N2: "Who wants to lock lips with me alllll day " - breadcrumbing that we converse with someone all daily

N3: "scumteam = hando/raz/throne. don't **** this up honnies" - making it clear that these guys were scum cuz they were nastier than me and nabes last

Spoiler

lolimagination

and people were calling them town for retardedass reasons that made Kantplay look like a genius.

N4: "Raziek dies today " - Expressing how badly Raziekel needed to be ****ed outta dis *****

N5: the one with the men dancing lol

So Kary, can you fullclain your results and the rationale behind your choices?

 

[No Hetero]

Wow this is peculiar. Interesting. Give me a second.

Iight I read this **** and get it now.

Hey Seph, what do you think of someone quickhammering the play and not moving from the days play? This way, both JTB and Kary lose should they be telling the truth about their wincons, which would make me happy.

Also, can you please unvote DHorse in your next post? I want to show everyone a magic trick.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

So Kary, can you fullclain your results and the rationale behind your choices?

Of course I can. But I have zero interest in attempting to prove my role is legit or dealing with any skepticism of my slot, especially when discussing the details of my role might give Seph more information to work with in a situation where (due to his claim conflicting with DH's), his claim is in doubt. So no, not right now.

Hey Seph, what do you think of someone quickhammering the play and not moving from the days play? This way, both JTB and Kary lose should they be telling the truth about their wincons, which would make me happy.

Please stop giving me unnecessary grief, yeah? this isn't you incentivizing me into working with you, this is you hampering my enjoyment of this game to the point where I am considering modkilling myself, because **** this game, **** you, this is a **** storm I don't deserve and would rather wash my hands of, reputation be damned.

Maybe i'm just in a bad damn mood, but you being happy at, and actively working towards, me personally losing? well thanks for nothing.

 

[No Hetero]

Wow this is peculiar. Interesting. Give me a second.

Kary, a lot of your play bothers me. Of course I'm going to try to get you to lose as a contingency plan.

Gorf, what is it with everyone getting emotional? Raz and Throne did this too.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

does me personally losing help you personally win?

then why bother other than to be a ****


entender

we wait for Seph

 

[Handorin]

Oh. I go to work and people have fun. So I say we should go for DH today. He's too much of a liability.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

christ all the kary *****ing needs to end. You aren't gonna fullclaim, fine. I can't force you to. But you can work with town instead of getting pissy every time someone bothers calling you scum.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

What the **** is going on?

Catchin' up. Sec.

Overswarm confirmed that I get to see all individual win conditions. Not globals.
Food for thought:
Why would I lie about this as scum, when a Dark House "mislynch" would be so easy?
Why does Dark House's win condition refer to completing his global, when it should clearly refer to his "other win condition"?

 

[No Hetero]

Dark Horse said he had another win condition that wasn't the town global one***

Dark Horse, who's scum? Ignoring the wincon business that seems to split you and Seph, I mean. Where are your reads at in general?

 

[No Hetero]

Catchin' up. Sec.

Overswarm confirmed that I get to see all individual win conditions. Not globals.
Food for thought:
Why would I lie about this as scum, when a Dark House "mislynch" would be so easy?
Why does Dark House's win condition refer to completing his global, when it should clearly refer to his "other win condition"?

Try to avoid this issue for a bit please, I'd like to hear more from DH on the game.

 

[No Hetero]

/confirming

Kary, we agree with FML's 1743 and I'd imagine other people do as well. You're really combative and hard to read as a result, please try to cooperate and to play the game. Ignore Marshy if you somehow feel affronted enough to get yourself modkilled.


Seph, have you wincon / character claimed? I'd appreciate it if not, just so everything's on the table.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

What the ****

Seph, what's your role name and the name of your ability?

Kary
I think
...
I'm conflicted.
I want to answer, but I think it's credible enough that I truly am a win condition cop. YOU, on the other hand, have only outed that you know my wincon. As soon as I answer this, you have all power to either follow my claim and play it safe, or contradict it and try to get me lynched on that, either way it's a power position you don't deserve to be in.

I'm treating this stage as LyLo. There's been no night kills 2 nights in a row, which means there's SOMETHING going on, and I don't trust it. A doc would've outed his targets by now so that we have more clears to work with.

In lieu of that, I will not answer. Instead, I'm asking you to answer that question.


@Seph : what was Raz's win-con ?
I dunno.

@Seph: please also tell me the exact wording of July's wincon. cheers.
Once again, unfair power position

@Seph: please also tell me the reasoning behind you crumbing your results in the wall?

and whether your ability lets you know any wincons that someone may have which have been 'given' to them and thus not in their role pm

Are you ********?
I never crumbed RESULTS, I crumbed role (and not even all of it) and targets. I crumbed enough to have CREDIBILITY when I claim it, but not enough to give all the information on a silver platter.
And hey, guess what, I have no reason to believe you're the winconcop besides the fact that you know mine. How about you show us some credibility?

And it lets me know the current win conditions. That's all I know.

Unvote for NH

Hey Seph, what do you think of someone quickhammering the play and not moving from the days play? This way, both JTB and Kary lose should they be telling the truth about their wincons, which would make me happy.
Yeah, just avoiding them completing their individual wincons is a good reason to do that.
The days play is a dilemma atm though. Kary who contradicts my claim and DH who's win conditions SCREAM scum in multiple ways.

especially when discussing the details of my role might give Seph more information to work with in a situation where (due to his claim conflicting with DH's), his claim is in doubt. So no, not right now.
hurrdurr durrr the more credible one has to prove his role
yeah no that's not how it works, Kary

does me personally losing help you personally win?
Yes. If you're scum and you didn't complete your wincon while you did complete your global, then there is no winner. A draw is better than a win.

So I say we should go for DH today. He's too much of a liability.
This lynch seems somewhat inevitable. As long as we deny JTB his wincon, that's fine with me.
The only problem is that I unvoted now, and JTB can get the first vote and we can't lynch that person in that case.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Seph, have you wincon / character claimed? I'd appreciate it if not, just so everything's on the table.

Pierre the Scarecrow.

"Solve one of The Wall’s puzzles for town"

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Try to avoid this issue for a bit please, I'd like to hear more from DH on the game.

this is a post because i need 10 posts

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Try to avoid this issue for a bit please, I'd like to hear more from DH on the game.

I think that's 10.

 

[No Hetero]

I think that's 10.

Ask me what we did with the chess puzzle reward when day's a bit farther along.
@ something related in your long post

Also, what does the "for town" part mean of your wincon?

Also, I (Nabe) don't really care if JTB hits his wincon; I think he's town, and I don't really care if he coasts to a win, as long as he's here to vote when he needs to be. It's more of a postgame issue to talk about, because it does go against the spirit of this game in particular.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Ask me what we did with the chess puzzle reward when day's a bit farther along.
@ something related in your long post

Also, what does the "for town" part mean of your wincon?

Also, I (Nabe) don't really care if JTB hits his wincon; I think he's town, and I don't really care if he coasts to a win, as long as he's here to vote when he needs to be. It's more of a postgame issue to talk about, because it does go against the spirit of this game in particular.

"for town" means that the result of my win con needs to benefit town. This made it harder for me to use the options I got, but I think that perma voting a scum is pretty pro town.

I considered making you (NH) doublevoter, but with indy around I just couldn't be sure. And what if the doublevoter doesn't vote for scum? Really, a weird line to walk it seemed to me. Mason is a weird line to walk also, so I didn't go with that.
The only option was modvoting someone. Modvoting Raziek would help town nonetheless because the information of his death if he was town would've helped us too (he created disconnections with two major slots, NH and WtT) so it seemed like the best option.

 

[No Hetero]

"for town" means that the result of my win con needs to benefit town. This made it harder for me to use the options I got, but I think that perma voting a scum is pretty pro town.

I considered making you (NH) doublevoter, but with indy around I just couldn't be sure. And what if the doublevoter doesn't vote for scum? Really, a weird line to walk it seemed to me. Mason is a weird line to walk also, so I didn't go with that.
The only option was modvoting someone. Modvoting Raziek would help town nonetheless because the information of his death if he was town would've helped us too (he created disconnections with two major slots, NH and WtT) so it seemed like the best option.

vote dark horse
request votecount

not sayin dhorse is te play but **** jtb. i will personally ensure that he loses this game so long as im around

more later

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

First of all, I think seph isn't lying, and that there must me some fancy wizardy **** going on. Why? The wincon that he DID get from me is spot-on verbatim. If he were lying, he would have to make this up, and I highly doubt that he would just be able to guess it perfectly.

I really hope this doesn't turn into me/seph, as that gives kary an excuse just to sit on his CC

Of course I can. But I have zero interest in attempting to prove my role is legit or dealing with any skepticism of my slot, especially when discussing the details of my role might give Seph more information to work with in a situation where (due to his claim conflicting with DH's), his claim is in doubt.

YOU. HAVE. CC'D. SOMEONE.

Despite that, you have given us absolutely nothing about your role, and you're just hiding behind it with "seph or DH mentality" bull****. Step it up.

 

[No Hetero]

Pierre the Scarecrow

Hahah.

Has anyone ever claimed the role that grants people independent wincons of lynching specific *****es? I also wonder if anyone received that **** lately.

I might actually reread this game as boring as those are. Pivotal moments that should prove enlightening and I really want Town to focus on are:

- The July/Kary D1 battle. Does their language lend to bussing? Any disconnects?

- Karys behavior with the knowledge of him being investigative. Was the manner of him claiming to keep check on Seph out of paranoia? Why does scumKary claim investigative which puts him at odds with a universal townread?

- How people acted around the Raz lynch. People had him as Town for ****ing unbelievably DUMB reasons. July blatantly called him scummy out of nowhere; I wonder how the other partner would've played that sinking ship.

Kary, Nabe had played ball with you for a good portion of the game, so I'd appreciate you returning the favor at this critical junction. Why are you Town? What was your approach to this game with the knowledge of being an investigative role? Please go indepth. Why were you reluctant to claim yesterday? Has anything struck you about each half of this hydra, i.e. what is your opinion of the marshy half and the Nabe half? What was the rationale behind your wall writings? You had Raz as a slight Townread at one point and that seemed to change yesterday; what provoked this shift? What is your sign?

I ****ing hate these claims btw.

Town should be aware that we'd benefit from being active right now. Otherwise OS will slap on a deadline and we might have to rush ****.

Dark Horse, please give a general summary of where your head is at with this game, reads included, like Nabe asked recently.

@mod: request JTB prod

 

[No Hetero]

I think that's 10.

Did I seriously say junction in my last post? Gorf I'm ********. I meant to say juncture, though junction somewhat works albeit less naturally.

Also guys, has anyone reread with the Raz flip in mind? I understand that claims play a part in figuring **** out, but I am rather buttsalty that there's so little analysis into PLAY now that we have some claims to line up with slots behaviors. I plan on rereading the game this weekend. This may or may not actually happen.

JTB, fullclaim in your next post, please.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Right.

I'm really not that into this game anymore, but let me try and answer things and explain my thoughts to you.

#1 YesterDay, at the start of the Day, in a PM from Overswarm I was given another individual win condition- to be on a successful lynch that Day phase. I didn't out this information because I wanted to try and figure out who might have sent me this. I have no reason to doubt it's authenticity other than WTT's suggestion at the end of Day 2 w.r.t. July not doubting the extra wincon she'd been given was real.
Between a modvote and Raz self-voting I didn't reach that, so to the best of my knowledge I have already lost and yet, to be fair to you guys, I have to keep playing, which is an utterly **** position to be in.

Now.

#2 DH's claim directly conflicts with what Seph has said about his results. Barring some sort of very weird ****, that means one of them is lying. As such, I believe scum is between the two of them and it is daft to be considering me as a play for toDay. Part of the reason I haven't full-claimed yet is to see how both players react to this, and to try and 'check' that this is not a gambit on Seph's part, or whatever.

#2.5 IMO; Seph should be pushing Dark Horse. Dark Horse should be pushing Seph. It may be Lylo, and whatever the ****'s up with my role, they should know the other is lying, right? Now.

#3 I haven't counter-claimed Seph. You'll recall that Inferno claimed to have some sort of investigative power at the start of D2, with his insistence that July was lying about her win condition. It is perfectly possible for there to be multiple roles able to investigate win conditions.

#4 Seph does have knowledge of my win condition, presumably through investigation- he knows the wording of my win condition, including parts that he couldn't have figured out from the way that I claimed. You'll remember me being vague about the specifics- and I'm glad I was, now.

#5 I haven't crumbed my role because, up until mass-claim happened, I had absolutely no need to whatsoever. I knew several players wincons, and that would be enough to show my role was legit. With mass-claim, all I knew that wasn't already public knowledge was Seph's wincon, which I put in my wall writing last Night. That should be enough to prove I do have an investigative power, but I don't have any more 'proof'.

#6 My role name is J, my ability is Investigate, and each night I can target a player and learn their individual win condition. If they have more than one individual win condition, I see only the first one. So, Seph's claimed role and mine aren't the same; his seems stronger than mine, and I was surprised that he learnt all of a person's wincons.

#7 N1 I targeted Seph and received 'Solve one of the wall's puzzles for town'; I was suspicious of Seph and felt that with Inferno hinting an investigative, he would pick a more likely target, July/JTB etc. The wording of the wincon, 'for town', didn't mean anything to me, really. It's not clear whether you have to provide the answer in thread, or whether you have to PM the correct answer first- I decided to take it as just 'solve a puzzle' and not to treat it as a clear; I'm not an actual cop, after all.

N2 I targeted WTT; at that point it was them or NH (still feeling one of the big 3 was scum) and at that point I was town-reading NH. I received 'be night killed by mafia' which I pretty much took as a clear- unless WTT was some sort of godfather and their wincon was a fake (seemed unlikely) they were clearly not mafia, and from that point I didn't really push them at all.

N3 after whaling on NH all day, I investigated them, and received 'use your ability on someone and have them lynched that day', which i read as null, but took as a warning signal after they used it on me, and the way they pushed a Hando lynch; hence 20 questions about why they targeted hando, why they targeted me etc. the next Day. I was scum-reading before I got this result, and it didn't prove anything.

N4 I investigated DH, he was clearly up for the gallows and I thought it was worth the odds of catching him out on his first wincon. As I say, i only get the first result; i can't confirm or deny any second wincon, but his first is 'die before endgame'. I also didn't think there would be another investigative after inferno/me.

#8 Seph definitely has some ability, as he knows my wincon. If he's telling the truth about his targets, he should know July's wincon in full. I'm not a big fan of the way he's played his role, and I don't really like how he's saying DH's wincons don't stack up even if you ignore Seph's results which kinda made me doubt Seph's results.

#9 I put my result in the wall in the event of my death, and to 'get in' before seph hard-claimed his wincon toDay, leaving me with no evidence whatsoever and without a leg to stand on.

#10 Yadda yadda, why would I claim a wincon cop when I could just cruise to a DH lynch today as scum? etc.

@Seph: please claim your role name, ability name, and july's wincon in full

I don't have any particular reason to doubt your role, and I'm not trying to CC you. I want to see whether your claim checks out, same as I'd do with anyone.

I hope in this I've shown you some credibility- you know I have some sort of ability, and this is about all else I can tell you about my role etc.

Despite that, you have given us absolutely nothing about your role, and you're just hiding behind it with "seph or DH mentality" bull****. Step it up.

Happy now? Who's scum? and who's scum if i'm town?

Why are you Town? What was your approach to this game with the knowledge of being an investigative role? Please go indepth. Why were you reluctant to claim yesterday?

You cut me, I bleed town. Look at D1.

I had no idea how strong my role was. I tried to play it like a VT, and didn't plan on revealing anything until I thought it was necessary. With people hating my slot, I didn't see myself getting n'killed any time soon.

I was reluctant to claim based on; not knowing seph's motivation for pushing mass claim, mass claim screwing over my results/proof, knowing WTT's wincon which, if claimed, would probably hurt them a lot if they were town. My claim itself I had no trouble in sharing; you can probably deduce it just from my n0 wall post and 1st post Day1.

w.r.t. Raz; reading him was a crapshoot. He seemed scummier than JTB however. things like a clear on FML, and raz refusing to claim his wincon even after everyone else kinda sealed the deal- even were he mislynched, i thought we got a lot from his flip.



I hope all that clears up some of my play, toDay, and elsewhere. I'm hoping it's all pretty obvious, but i'll take questions. Pending Seph filling out the details of his role, I don't really have any objections to lynching DH, not least because I'm struggling to care anymore, and my reads have all been through a blender this game.

Peace & ika:

 

[No Hetero]

I think that's 10.

Thanks, Kary. That's everything I was looking for from you. All your choices throughout the game make sense, and the questions you asked etc. I couldn't figure you out, and was trying to figure your interactions with July as scum but couldn't, so had you as indy. With Throne's flip the nail seems to be in the indy coffin, so town is the only fit.

 

[No Hetero]

I think that's 10.

Kary

Hmm, that is a lot to chew on. I will be keeping a lot of that rationale in mind when I reread.

3 things that hit me about Karys claim and reasoning behind his play:

1. N1 he went from "LOOK AT SEPH/NO HETERO/THRONE" to D4's "Throne is Town enough that I'm not worried about him for the time being"; his investigation and subsequent interpretation of Thrones wincon explains this 180. I also remember him resisting our Throne push pretty strongly and consistently lending credence to his claim.

2. Kary isn't bull****ting about someone sending him the wincon of being on a successful lynch. Someone gave us that **** on N2 I believe? This is off memory.

3. Kary coming at us hardbody D3 also lines up with his play/claim.

Really interesting post. Wish I wasn't so busy til this weekend.

lol im getting ninjad by my other half sup nabe