The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[L9999]

Lucario is an inconsistent mess. I think no changes is the safest route.

I vote Gunner.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Lucario is an inconsistent mess. I think no changes is the safest route.

I vote Gunner.

Nerf the strength of aura and make it start at later %.

Buff lucario' s poking and killing tools, along with giving him better damage to deal.

Done.

 

[Zerp]

Hey, so my internet's acting up and I'm on my phone right now so I can't do a early update either. Unfortunately, I think i'LL only bE able to ipdate tomorrow, ugh. Sorry.

 

[Zerp]

Wow, I didn't realize those typos up there yesterday, my mobile typing is truly a work of art.
I think Lucario is pretty much fine as is, there's not really much for me to say.

Reduce aura, buff other parts of his kit

Here's Lucario's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1kWWwhu6Wujbj6Tnk3LFdUMaynuhsd3KEUDzKmfNm6gI/viewanalytics
Here's Gunner's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/80E1GHexYgENV1EF3
As usual, Mii Gunner is being treated as their Guest XXXX variant in the poll, but you can discuss all the other variants as well.

Also, I just realized we were supposed to do Stage discussion after five characters this round, and uh, I am definitely more than a little late on remembering that, lol. So, instead of voting on a character, we're just going to do some stages tomorrow.

Spoiler: Stage Schedule

Day1
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Day2
Dream Land (64)
Lylat Cruise
Town and City
Day 3
Duck Hunt
Halberd
Delfino Plaza

 

[DJBor]

With Guest XXXX, Mii Gunner's new options make it a mid tier character. Rather than having a pretty unorganized selection of specials, now a Gunner can get a super-safe grenade launch, a speedy bomb dropper, a PSI Magnet crossed with a movement option, a longer-distance recovery (or a spiking recovery, how about that!), Samus rockets, Fox lasers, or a much better variation on Din's Fire as options. This mix-and-match ability creates the perfect zoner for whatever goal you're looking for. And even if running speed may be low, one can always use the Gundash advanced tech to gain massive aerial momentum.

However, though Mii Gunner may be improved a lot after receiving the ability to use XXXX customization, it's still mid tier due to a few messed up hitboxes here or there. Here's the selection of fixes I think Mii Gunner needs:

• All smash attack hitbox properties are improved to connect better (they're all SDI-able multihits right now!)
• Up air receives much less landing lag (this way, a dragging up smash can be used to combo into a smash attack!)
  
• Down air spike hitbox size increase, duration increased to 3 frames (this move is frustratingly hard to land correctly)
  
• Jab connects better between the 2nd and 3rd hits (you have to delay the 3rd press to get it to work in its current state)

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

In terms of Guest XXXX, is quite good on the special moves aspect. However, it still has very flawed normal moves, and here are my suggested changes:

+ Decrease angle of dash attack (60 --> 30) so it kills off the side better or sets up an edgeguard/zoning situation.
+ Greatly decrease the SDI multiplier of U-smash and D-smash so the whole thing connects better. Also, increase damage of final hit of F-smash (5 --> 6) so it does more damage and kills better.
+ Increase damage of one throw (preferably F-throw) and knockback of another (preferably B-throw). D-throw is currently his only throw that has a practical use which isn't just "positioning".
+ (optional) Rework U-throw to be like Falco's, which would allow easier combos and be a bit better killing.
+ Decrease landing lag of U-air (22 --> 18) and D-air (28 --> 22).
+ Increase hitbox size and duration of D-air, and increase its damage.

 

[MarioMeteor]

A lot of Mii Gunner's attacks are either slow or have bad hitboxes. Or both. And what's more, its throws suck. So yeah, fix that.

Wow, I didn't realize those typos up there yesterday, my mobile typing is truly a work of art.
I think Lucario is pretty much fine as is, there's not really much for me to say.

Here's Lucario's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1kWWwhu6Wujbj6Tnk3LFdUMaynuhsd3KEUDzKmfNm6gI/viewanalytics
Here's Gunner's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/80E1GHexYgENV1EF3
As usual, Mii Gunner is being treated as their Guest XXXX variant in the poll, but you can discuss all the other variants as well.

Also, I just realized we were supposed to do Stage discussion after five characters this round, and uh, I am definitely more than a little late on remembering that, lol. So, instead of voting on a character, we're just going to do some stages tomorrow.

Spoiler: Stage Schedule

Day1
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Day2
Dream Land (64)
Lylat Cruise
Town and City
Day 3
Duck Hunt
Halberd
Delfino Plaza

That seems kind of sloppy. I mean, we're already mid-character discussion, so we might as well finish this round.

So I vote Delfino if we're still doing stages, Mario if we aren't.

 

[L9999]

I would give Charge Blast more KO power and Reflector having the hitbox increased to be all the pink area and a shine spike. Also some of the changes suggested.

I lost track, which trash tier we haven't discussed?

 

[DJBor]

is not trash tier

 

[L9999]

is not trash tier

According to the tier list, I think Charizard is better than that.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

According to the tier list, I think Charizard is better than that.

That tier list is questionable, I say we better not base the lower tier character off of it.

As for Gunner, I say give a small increase on the damage of all their moves:
<+1 on all hit of jab
<+2 on tilts
<+1.5 on F&Usmash
<+2 on Dsmash
<+4 on F,U & Bthrows
<+1 on Fair (plus removing the sour spot)
<+3 on Uair

Reduce amounts frame data:
<Ftilt start up: 10-15 < 7-12
<Fsmash start up: 17-38, 40 < 13-34, 36-38
<Dsmash start up: 9, 23-25 < 8-9, 21-25
<Nair Auto-Cancel: 1-3, 35> < 1-3, 30>
<Fair Auto-Cancel: 47> < 37
<Uair Auto-Cancel: 1-10, 60> < 1-17, 43
<Dair Auto-Cancel: 1-3, 54> < 1-5, 37>

& (similar to Zelda), remove freefall from Stealth Burst.

Those are the only buffs I could think of.

 

[Djmarcus44]

That tier list is questionable, I say we better not base the lower tier character off of it.

As for Gunner, I say give a small increase on the damage of all their moves:
<+1 on all hit of jab
<+2 on tilts
<+1.5 on F&Usmash
<+2 on Dsmash
<+4 on F,U & Bthrows
<+1 on Fair (plus removing the sour spot)
<+3 on Uair

Reduce amounts frame data:
<Ftilt start up: 10-15 < 7-12
<Fsmash start up: 17-38, 40 < 13-34, 36-38
<Dsmash start up: 9, 23-25 < 8-9, 21-25
<Nair Auto-Cancel: 1-3, 35> < 1-3, 30>
<Fair Auto-Cancel: 47> < 37
<Uair Auto-Cancel: 1-10, 60> < 1-17, 43
<Dair Auto-Cancel: 1-3, 54> < 1-5, 37>

& (similar to Zelda), remove freefall from Stealth Burst.

Those are the only buffs I could think of.

The sour spot on fair is better for the 50-50 into charge blast so it would be better to keep it. Other than that, this list is pretty good.

 

[Zerp]

Mii Gunner feels lag-tastic on everything, maybe speeding em up a bit would help them out. Other than that I think making sure F-Smash's hits all connect would make sense.

That seems kind of sloppy. I mean, we're already mid-character discussion, so we might as well finish this round.

So I vote Delfino if we're still doing stages, Mario if we aren't.

You've got a point there, but I think I'd forget about it again if I don't do it now, lol.

I would give Charge Blast more KO power and Reflector having the hitbox increased to be all the pink area and a shine spike. Also some of the changes suggested.

I lost track, which trash tier we haven't discussed?

Out of those characters, we haven't done,,, and yet.

Here's Mii Gunner's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Lcc8sb1DhMu3YHFOFPZfj8tYezqK4JzGvyKAb5OU8pM/viewanalytics

Okay then, so for today, tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow we're just going to be talking about stages for a bit. Today, the one's we'll go over are Final Destination, Battlefield, and Smashville, and like always, if that bores you, you can also talk about any other balance related thingies you want.

Spoiler: Stage Schedule

Today
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Tomorrow
Dream Land (64)
Lylat Cruise
Town and City

Day 3
Duck Hunt
Halberd
Delfino Plaza

 

[Arthur97]

Good that it's open, since those are some of the most boring stages there are.

 

[Tizio Random]

I feel like Battlefield could sometimes be replaced in favor of Miiverse. I really like the stage but the under part of it can be rage-inducing for recoveries situationally because the stage is irregular (I swear to god there's a hole on one of the sides and I always stuck in there). Also Miiverse has actual simmetrical blastzones. One case where it's better to stay with the original is in match-ups like Pika-Ganon otherwise Pikachu can stall infinitely under Miiverse because it is faster to pass under the stage.

Final Destination is fine but I would like that all tournaments accept Palutena's Temple because the flashing lights are very distracting and I don't like them. I could live with it, tho, I'm not like epilectic or anything. Also it is my go-to-ban stage because it makes some match-ups way harder (IMHO Link vs Rosa in FD is in Link's favor but that's just my crazy opinion) and I don't think Robin benefits that much off of it.

Smashville is fine like Final Destination but the camping game and combos/strings here can be brutal, although it's way better than other stages. Cloud is probably the biggest offender with its limit charge on the platform that also helps his recovery. Now that I think about many top tiers benefits from this stages while low tiers don't. let's ban smashville

 

[DJBor]

Battlefield- Neutral, duh. But Miiverse should be an acceptable alternative.
Final D- Neutral, unless you're in Japan where it's a counterpick for some reason. Omega Stages also deserve more credit.
Smashville- Now that I don't main Lucas (who is admittedly awful on smashville) I can finally appreciate this stage's simplicity. I don't like how the platform overextends, it would be better if it stopped at the end of the stage, but if that's what Nintendo will give us in terms of neutrals I'll take it.

Off-topic thing: how would the metagame be shaken up if was DLC instead of ?

 

[L9999]

Battlefield- Never bring Rosalina, swordfighters or combo centric characters here unless you want to get juggled on the platforms. Good stage though if I'm using said characters.
Final Destination- Home of Little Mac and ultra campy characters. Characters with crappy landing options can't do much here. Killing of the top takes forever though.
Trashville- NEVER BRING SHEIK OR CLOUD HERE, IT'S A 100% RATE LOSS. Otherwise, the go-to place for people that are too lazy to counterpick.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Battlefield should be a neutral stage, even though its uneven side blast zones, low bottom blast zone, and janky bottom can be annoying. Like others have suggested, make this interchangeable with Miiverse and I'll be happy.

Final Destination is a nice starter for some characters, even though it obviously benefits more characters than others, but that's where bans and counterpicks take effect. Again, make Omega Palutena's Temple an option and I'll be happy.

Smashville is a good stage unless you're playing against Sheik, Cloud, or arguably Ness. The moving platform is nice to help characters who struggle to land or recover do so, while at the same time not taking stocks off the side like T&C's platforms.

 

[Zerp]

Battlefield- Probably the most neutral and overall "fair" stage in the game, although it does give a advantage to any character that can exploit platforms well.

Final Destination/Omegas- It's a pretty good stage and all but I play here waaay more than I probably should, with the Omegas there's just so much aesthetic variety, and I like my stages having some colorful variety, because of this I play with Omegas like 80% of the time now, it's like a drug addiction, I need to tone it down, lol.

Smashville- I've made it a habit to nearly always ban Smashville first, nearly everyone spends a ton of time there, and I really don't like that platform since it has this habit of saving people who would otherwise have died.


Now since the day's over, we'll be discussing Dreamland, Lylat Cruise, and Town and City since they are today's stages.

Spoiler: Stage Schedule

Today
Dream Land (64)
Lylat Cruise
Town and City

Tomorrow
Duck Hunt
Halberd
Delfino Plaza

 

[DJBor]

Dream Land 64: Banned in Japan due to monetary access sympathy. Good for them, but this stage is as neutral as ever. If only Nintendo could finally fix the pineapple problem.
Lylat Cruise: Counterpick. Currently labeled as neutral, this stage is terrible for some characters and almost universally gets banned early, and when it's available it only gets picked if it benefits the picker's character. Not that this stage is bad, it should still be legal, but it's not neutral.
Town 'n City: Neutral, but for some alternate rulesets a meaningful counterpick. The platform drag KO is really awful. But outside of that, this is a neutral stage. It has universally close blast zones for easy KOs as and against the majority of characters. One stage I never ban first.

 

[L9999]

Dreamland 64: Battlefield with a smaller top blastzone and funky music. Thankfully it is not Melee Dreamland 64 because matches would take forever.

Lylat Cruise: An underrated pick for messing with your opponent's mind. Seriously, practice playing in this stage. Not a neutral though.

Town and City: Can't form an opinion since I've only played here 3 times in my life.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Dreamland 64: Honestly, I would prefer this to be in the same rotation as Battlefield and Miiverse. It has some minor differences which affect some characters, notably hurting Charizard, but I'd rather combine all the three-platform-triangle stages so that bans are no longer "Oh, you ban Battlefield? Well, then, I choose Dreamland."

Lylat Cruise: I don't understand why it's a neutral stage in most big tournaments, as it has enough jank to be overall annoying. Should definitely be a counterpick.

Town and City: The stretcher can cause jank, but it's even less situational than Luma gimps, so it's fine as a neutral.

 

[Zerp]

Dreamland 64: My personal favorite stage, it's pretty fair for most characters with very few exceptions, has great visuals and Kirby music, my only two complaints are that it isn't Melee Dreamland (understandable) and that it doesn't have C-R-O-W-N-E-D.

Lylat Cruise: I don't like this stage, it's kind of janky at times, I don't play it enough, but more than anything else, it's really disorienting, all those bright colors flashing across a black background and the other special effects makes it really hard for me to focus on the actual battle.

Town and City: Nice and colorful without being distracting and it's got a lot of platforms, I like it.

And with that, the day's over. Now for today, we'll discuss Duck Hunt, Halberd, and Delfino Plaza, and vote for which character to do tomorrow.

You may vote for any of these characters who may or may not actually be Waluigi in disguise.


I'll vote for

 

[L9999]

Duck Hunt: It seems designed to be a counterpick for Mac and Ganondorf, and the Z axis crap screws the PK kids and Mewtwo. The stage is very small and the blastzones are very close to the stage, so if you come here against characters like Captain Falcon, Sanic, Pikachu, or any swordsman it is a guaranteed loss. The minimum of edgeguards is death. It takes 1 million years to kill of the top. I rather go Lylat then ever touching this stage. At least the music there is awesome, here it is trash.

Halberd: Don't miss it. I'm glad it is banned.

Delfino Plaza:Ultra janky and ultra beneficial for every top tier in existence. Never want to see it back.

I vote no one's favorite character that is not Dark Waste, .

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Duck Hunt deserves its spot as a counterpick stage. There are clear advantages and disadvantages to the stage, but it's still tame enough to not inhibit the match for the majority of characters.

Halberd: Oh god, how was this even legal at any point? The insta-death at the beginning for anyone on the floor, the tiny ceilings, and the stupid cannonballs and lasers combine for a janky experience that no tournament player should ever have to deal with.

Delfino Plaza: No cannonballs or lasers, but arguably worse than Halberd for the huge variety of stops it has that are all walkoffs with water and each have something strange about them you have to remember. Glad to see this is banned in most tournaments.

Voting for the leader of the bunch, .

 

[DJBor]

How about these two:
Castle Siege: Why does nobody talk about this stage anymore? It's more neutral than Halberd, and situations like the infamous ESAM replay happen only once in a blue moon.
Umbra Clock Tower: It's better than Halberd and Delfino combined. I get that the background is terrible, but it's no worse than Whispy Woods and its windboxes.

Not voting, let's see what happens

 

[L9999]

How about these two:
Castle Siege: Why does nobody talk about this stage anymore? It's more neutral than Halberd, and situations like the infamous ESAM replay happen only once in a blue moon.
Umbra Clock Tower: It's better than Halberd and Delfino combined. I get that the background is terrible, but it's no worse than Whispy Woods and its windboxes.

Not voting, let's see what happens

Sorry but I have to disagree.
Castle Siege isn't only because of the ESAM jank. First transformation. The stage is extremely small. Nowhere to move and the blastzones are extremely tiny. If you are against a rushdown character you are guaranteed to lose a stock. 2nd transformation: Thankfully people learned that you get camped to death here. Name me a single reason why you should approach here at all. The third one is a Lylat with no platforms, and not many here are fond of Lylat.
Umbra Clock Tower can actually get people sick. It also has a lot of transformations that promote camping.

 

[Zerp]

Duck Hunt: I don't like how everything's flat (eugh) and how small the horizontal blastzones are. It was a good concept though.

Isle Delfino: Super janky and unfair, but I personally like it due to it being based off of Super Mario Sunshine, my bias is immense.

Halberd: Has great music (for the most part), but has dated visuals that have aged poorly, is probably the most unfair stage that can ever be considered "legal" in Smash 4, happens to be my mains worst stage by far, but even worse than those is the unforgivable crime that is the butchered remix of Zero Two's theme that happens to be here./s

How about these two:
Castle Siege: Why does nobody talk about this stage anymore? It's more neutral than Halberd, and situations like the infamous ESAM replay happen only once in a blue moon.
Umbra Clock Tower: It's better than Halberd and Delfino combined. I get that the background is terrible, but it's no worse than Whispy Woods and its windboxes.

Not voting, let's see what happens

Not going to comment on Castle Siege because I don't play there at all.
For Umbra Clock Tower though, that stage is a headache, both metaphorically and literally. It's got these platforms which I personally find obnoxiously placed, they never really seem to add anything other than more opportunities to camp and the stage does give me actual headaches, obviously not a reason to john if I end up there, but I definitely try to avoid it at all costs.

Here's Donkey Kong's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/ymE4T8fJsdFMVkLB3
You may vote for any of these characters who can not expand dong.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

with one simple patch went from a low tier to an upper mid tier, as he can now perform lots of combos. In fact, that might be a bit too good, but he has some underwhelming aspects, too. My changes:

-- Nerf damage of cargo U-throw (10 --> 8.5), but since this would also decrease the knockback and hit stun, slightly increase those values to match what they are now. I'm fine with all the combos he has from grab, even Ding Dong, but when a combo throw that's reliable until death percents does the same percent as only one other combo throw that isn't nearly as consistent (R.O.B. D-throw), it's a bit ridiculous. This shouldn't nerf him much, as his aerial followup game is already really highly damaging. And remember, when Bowser's U-throw was buffed to be a combo throw, it was nerfed in damage much more than this, from 10% to 6%, and then it was later nerfed with a knockback increase, whereas Donkey Kong's was never touched even though it was the crazier the of the two.
+ (optional) Decrease end lag of F-smash so it's a bit safer on shield.
+ Add a scoop hitbox to U-smash so it can hit all grounded opponents.
+ (optional) Increase range of N-air, and decrease end lag of F-air.
+ Remove free fall on Giant Punch. It already has way too much end lag and doesn't help recover, why does it free fall?
+ (optional) Reduce lag of grounded side-B and down-B.
+ Side-B and down-B in the air are basically useless. I don't know how to fix them, but please do.

Voting for the track-and-field flop, .

 

[L9999]

with one simple patch went from a low tier to an upper mid tier, as he can now perform lots of combos. In fact, that might be a bit too good, but he has some underwhelming aspects, too. My changes:

-- Nerf damage of cargo U-throw (10 --> 8.5), but increase knockback and hit stun to compensate. I'm fine with all the combos he has from grab, even Ding Dong, but when a combo throw that's reliable until death percents does the same percent as only one other combo throw that isn't nearly as consistent (R.O.B. D-throw), it's a bit ridiculous. This shouldn't nerf him much, as his aerial followup game is already really highly damaging. And remember, when Bowser's U-throw was buffed to be a combo throw, it was nerfed in damage much more than this, from 10% to 6%, and then it was later nerfed, whereas Donkey Kong's was never touched even though it was the crazier the of the two.
+ Decrease end lag of F-smash so it's a bit safer on shield.
+ Add a scoop hitbox to U-smash so it can hit all grounded opponents.
+ Remove free fall on Giant Punch. It already has way too much end lag and doesn't help recover, why does it free fall?
+ Side-B and down-B in the air are basically useless. I don't know how to fix them, but please do.

Voting for the slow tactician, .

Giving a throw more knockback reduces its ability to combo. Ask . Or . The Din Dong KO confirm allows to clutch it out against top tiers who clearly destroy him (This 2 go 7:3 ).

Let's list what is good about DK:

• Ding Dong
• His tilts
• Bair
• Giant Punch pressure
• Pivot grab
• Airspeed
• Rage tank
• Good combo ability

What really freaking sucks about DK:

• His ledge options are COMPLETE TRASH. If you cannot punish them and keep getting DK off the stage you are not playing Smash 4 correctly.
• He is a walking sandbag. He is a huge target that is very easy to combo.
• His landing options are trash as well. Makes it extremely easy to juggle him and force him to ledge, where he sucks.
• His recovery is exploitable. You are not going to gimp him horizontally, but you can chip damage all you want. If you spike him at all he is dead, jump or not.
• Projectile.

DK's strenghts make up for his very bad shortcomings, which I think is balanced. On Down B and Side B being useless offstage, Side B use to air stall, but it got nerfed for no reason at all in a patch. If I added a buff to DK, is having a bigger Nair hitbox.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Again, I said increase the knockback to COMPENSATE, because reducing the damage also reduces the knockback and I don't want Ding Dong to be THAT crazy. The throw would have the same knockback and hit stun it has now, allowing for the same followups, but it would do slightly less damage, which shouldn't hurt him much as his combos already do tons of damage. Combined with the buffs I'm giving him, he would likely be buffed overall.

 

[DJBor]

is in my balanced group, case closed
Let's try tomorrow... the character currently placed at the bottom of my balanced group

 

[L9999]

I forgot my vote, 1111.

Offtopic, but what are Jigglypuff's Up Throw numbers? I checked Kurogane and it was BKB 110 and KBG 30, but someone here said it backwards so I'm confused. Zerp ?

 

[MarioMeteor]

While it is nice to have heavyweights like Donkey Kong that aren't ass, he's only really viable because of the Ding-Dong, and that's just straight up bad design. So remove that, and give him lots of other buffs in return.

I forgot my vote, 1111.

Offtopic, but what are Jigglypuff's Up Throw numbers? I checked Kurogane and it was BKB 110 and KBG 30, but someone here said it backwards so I'm confused. Zerp ?

That sounds about right. Large base knockback, ****ty knockback scaling, like the rest of Jigglypuff's throws.

 

[Zerp]

Offtopic, but what are Jigglypuff's Up Throw numbers? I checked Kurogane and it was BKB 110 and KBG 30, but someone here said it backwards so I'm confused. Zerp ?

I'm 99% certain it's what Kurogane Hammer says, I can't measure KBG and BKB but there's two things in my memory pointing to which one it is, firstly, the move starts off sending people higher than most moves do but doesn't really get that much more intense overtime, and secondly, if you go to settings and switch the Damage ratio to 2.0 it instakills mostly everything, which wouldn't happen if the BKB before being put on 2.0 was 30, 110 makes much more sense.

 

[Zerp]

Okay, for approximately the eighteenth thousandth time, I won't be able to update on time, so instead of delaying Robin's day, here's Robin's poll: https://goo.gl/forms/5ZUtEl1ZFR36qgw72

We'll still be doing Donkey Kong until I update the thread, but just with Robin as well,I think that's fair.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Robin is one of those characters that's on the brink of being good. He needs something, I just don't know what. Speed buff, maybe?

 

[Tizio Random]

is fine as it is. The only thing I want for him is less endlag on arcfire and a teeny-tiny bit of run speed (like something between 1.19 and 1.2).

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

/ is so close to being a fantastic character. The only thing keeping them down are the properties of certain tomes:

+ (optional) Increase run speed a little bit (1.15 --> 1.18), so they now outspeed Jigglypuff on the ground.
• Reduce the uses of the Wind Tome to 15, but make the full Elwind only count as 1 use. Mostly a buff, this would help them not fall short when recovering and give them more reason to use the wind jab.
+ Decrease the respawn rate of Nosferatu (2400 frames --> 1800), and remove its helplessness. It's certainly not an overwhelming move, as it's quite laggy on startup and doesn't do much at low percents, why is it only usable four times and then takes 40 seconds to respawn, and why does it punish you for landing the move offstage?


Voting for the character that ZeRo keeps underrating so it looks like he doesn't have main bias, .

 

[Zerp]

I'll make this quick.
Here's Donkey Kong's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vNwaww8D0J4ghrmOvKSqawH3VPZgytqxnIcdHGsDuA8/viewanalytics
If you haven't voted already here's the list of peeps you can vote for