The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I would like it if they took away the Ding Dong, or at least made it less effective, and gave him some other buffs to compensate.

Voting Cloud.

As a DK main I agree with above. I wish they'd remove the ding dong or make it so the grab KO followup isn't so braindead. In return, give him buffs in other areas. Perhaps general frame data improvements for moves like fair, dair, up B landing on stage, ect. Maybe give giant punch more frames of super armor. Balancing DK by giving him the ding dong has always felt jank and lazy design.

The...Ding Dong? Do I even want to know?

I haven't really been playing as Donkey Kong, so I don't have anything to contribute today.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

The...Ding Dong? Do I even want to know?

"Ding Dong" is just the name the community has given to his cargo up-throw into up-air combo, like Diddy's "Hoo Hah".

 

[Wintermelon43]

The...Ding Dong? Do I even want to know?

I haven't really been playing as Donkey Kong, so I don't have anything to contribute today.

Don't worry, if you play any DK who knows what they're doing, you'll see the ding dong

Also, voting for the retextured super mario bros bush ()

 

[MarioMeteor]

"Ding Dong" is just the name the community has given to his cargo up-throw into up-air combo, like Diddy's "Hoo Hah".

Or R.O.B's B33P B00P.

 

[Zerp]

I don't think I understand Donkey Kong well enough to add anything meaningful, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how viable he is, he's like in this weird state between High and Mid tier, I don't know what to classify him as.
Here's Donkey Kong's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1mdEmQvpXlCwhP35iiQrvfk04I04juAGvhycmPRRuKoo/viewanalytics
Here's Cloud's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/xsaZK9G7LLpDbo0K2

You can vote for any of these lovely people who are all very special and unique.
Edit: Took out Cloud

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

's kinda ridiculous to the point that I wouldn't mind a few nerfs so he's not so easy to play, but still very good. Specifically, U-air and D-air should have fewer active frames and less forgiving autocancels, Limit Cross Slash should have less power and more end lag, and D-smash should have more startup. Otherwise he's fine.

Voting .

 

[MarioMeteor]

Zerp , you forgot to take Cloud out of the roster.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think Cloud needs any more nerfs. I think he's perfect as is. But if something had to be nerfed, I would make it his down air, because maybe that move is a little too perfect.

Voting Marth.

's kinda ridiculous to the point that I wouldn't mind a few nerfs so he's not so easy to play, but still very good. Specifically, U-air and D-air should have fewer active frames and less forgiving autocancels, Limit Cross Slash should have less power and more end lag, and D-smash should have more startup. Otherwise he's fine.

Voting .

So basically you want to nerf the few KO options he had, thus encouraging more Clouds to camp for Limit.

 

[Zerp]

Zerp , you forgot to take Cloud out of the roster.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'm really bad at remembering to remove the character.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Zerp , you forgot to take Cloud out of the roster.

Dang, I'm losing my touch!

So basically you want to nerf the few KO options he had, thus encouraging more Clouds to camp for Limit.

No, I just want them to make one smash attack a bit slower, and LCS to be toned down a bit because it's still crazy. He would still have the POWER of that smash attack and his other ones, several aerials, a couple tilts, and of course LB specials to kill with.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The only change that I gave to Cloud is his weight, which I raised to 104. It's not that big of a change though, especially when his recovery can be gimped hard by certain fighters.

 

[Axel311]

The big problem with Cloud is not how good he is, although many think he's the best in game right now. I think he is too. But whether you think he's the best, 5th best, whatever, his main issue is he's way too easy to play for how good he is and it's not healthy for the meta for so big a percentage of players to be using him.

Check the smashboards usage statistics since Cloud's release. He is BY FAR the most used character in tourney right now. It's not even close. It's not good for the meta for it to be so centralized on one character.

I think there needs to be more of a drawback to using limit, and more incentive for keeping it. This would both reduce his power a bit and make him harder to play. Limit camping is so good Cloud doesn't have much of drawback to just throwing out limit because he can go right back to running away. I think they should nerf his non limit recovery to make it more imperative to save limit for recovery but in return give him his old limit charge time back. His non limit recovery is not that bad right now, because of the huge disjoint on it, it's underrated. If Cloud is going to have the best neutral in the game, I think it's only fair to make his non limit up B one of the worst recoveries in the game. It should be little mac tier, right now it isn't nearly that bad despite what many people say. I wouldn't nerf the distance, I would nerf the start up. Like Captain Falcon's recovery, it should stall a bit at the beginning before Cloud jumps upward to give opponents more of a window to jump off stage and hit him.

To be honest I think the character would be more balanced and more fun to play against if they replaced his manual down B charge with another move. Do not let limit be charged manually. But realistically that won't happen.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Dang, I'm losing my touch!


No, I just want them to make one smash attack a bit slower, and LCS to be toned down a bit because it's still crazy. He would still have the POWER of that smash attack and his other ones, several aerials, a couple tilts, and of course LB specials to kill with.

Down smash doesn't need to be slower, it's his only reliable grounded KO option outside of Limit, and it's been nerfed unnecessarily once already. Power does not make an attack reliable, otherwise Reverse Warlock Punch would be the best move in the game.

The big problem with Cloud is not how good he is, although many think he's the best in game right now. I think he is too. But whether you think he's the best, 5th best, whatever, his main issue is he's way too easy to play for how good he is and it's not healthy for the meta for so big a percentage of players to be using him.

Check the smashboards usage statistics since Cloud's release. He is BY FAR the most used character in tourney right now. It's not even close. It's not good for the meta for it to be so centralized on one character.

I think there needs to be more of a drawback to using limit, and more incentive for keeping it. This would both reduce his power a bit and make him harder to play. Limit camping is so good Cloud doesn't have much of drawback to just throwing out limit because he can go right back to running away. I think they should nerf his non limit recovery to make it more imperative to save limit for recovery but in return give him his old limit charge time back. His non limit recovery is not that bad right now, because of the huge disjoint on it, it's underrated. If Cloud is going to have the best neutral in the game, I think it's only fair to make his non limit up B one of the worst recoveries in the game. It should be little mac tier, right now it isn't nearly that bad despite what many people say. I wouldn't nerf the distance, I would nerf the start up. Like Captain Falcon's recovery, it should stall a bit at the beginning before Cloud jumps upward to give opponents more of a window to jump off stage and hit him.

To be honest I think the character would be more balanced and more fun to play against if they replaced his manual down B charge with another move. Do not let limit be charged manually. But realistically that won't happen.

His recovery is already Little Mac tier. If you so much as nudge him offstage he's done. And if he's fighting someone like Mario or Greninja? Forget about it. What's worse is he can't even sweetspot the ledge.

 

[Axel311]

Down smash doesn't need to be slower, it's his only reliable grounded KO option outside of Limit, and it's been nerfed unnecessarily once already. Power does not make an attack reliable, otherwise Reverse Warlock Punch would be the best move in the game.

His recovery is already Little Mac tier. If you so much as nudge him offstage he's done. And if he's fighting someone like Mario or Greninja? Forget about it. What's worse is he can't even sweetspot the ledge.

Most characters do not have those tools. His recovery is little mac tier for characters with tools like flood and cape. For most of the cast though, it's not. For most, gimping Cloud is tricky because that can't do it from a safe distance, they have to find a way to get around the huge disjoint. Not saying it's not possible to do, but it certainly isn't easy to get Cloud is a position to gimp him. Lots of other characters are far easier to mess with offstage. The weakness that his recovery doesn't autosnap is largely marginalized for most of the cast because of the huge disjoint protecting Cloud.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The big problem with Cloud is not how good he is, although many think he's the best in game right now. I think he is too. But whether you think he's the best, 5th best, whatever, his main issue is he's way too easy to play for how good he is and it's not healthy for the meta for so big a percentage of players to be using him.

Tell that to the Foxes and Shieks in Melee.

EDIT: This is more of a joke than an argument. It does get boring watching the same character over and over. Though, I don't think having an easy to play character doesn't make him unbalanced so he doesn't really need any nerfs in my opinion. Honestly, the days will be a lot less Cloudy if all of the other characters become just as viable so it comes down to preference than "this guy is viable without having the biggest learning curve in the world".

 

[MarioMeteor]

Most characters do not have those tools. His recovery is little mac tier for characters with tools like flood and cape. For most of the cast though, it's not. For most, gimping Cloud is tricky because that can't do it from a safe distance, they have to find a way to get around the huge disjoint. Not saying it's not possible to do, but it certainly isn't easy to get Cloud is a position to gimp him. Lots of other characters are far easier to mess with offstage. The weakness that his recovery doesn't autosnap is largely marginalized for most of the cast because of the huge disjoint protecting Cloud.

Big as it is, that sword can't and won't protect him every time. It's really not that hard to contest, and the worst that can happen is a trade, which more likely than not will not be in Cloud's favor.

 

[L9999]

Remove the mechanic that makes him get limit by getting hit. Sorry, but it's a load of crap that you FINALLY got Cloud offstage and hit him out of his second jump so hard so he can FINALLY die....and you hear bing! SWOOSH! Hut! He came back. All your efforts thrown to the trash. There is not a single reason why Cloud should get Limit by getting hit.

Limit Cross Slash. ENDLAG PLEASE. This thing is unpunishable. By the time you drop the shield and attempt something, Cloud is gonna hit you or run away.

Butcher autocancels. This way Cloud's Uair is not the vertical coming of Fair and Dair stops being so obnoxious to deal with.
Nothing else really. Someone has to be top tier and obnoxious (like , the bane of my sanity), so I would only change the most insulting things about Cloud.

The only change that I gave to Cloud is his weight, which I raised to 104. It's not that big of a change though, especially when his recovery can be gimped hard by certain fighters.

So he is even tougher to kill off? No thanks. Who besides can gimp Cloud hard and consistently?

And on the things I missed:
is a volatile character by nature, and while Ding Dong is really braindead so is abusing him at the edge. Seriously, if you let DK come back undamaged from the ledge it's a testification you suck at this game (don't take it the wrong way, just a hyperbole). His ledge options are SUPER SLOW, you can chip him easily. While Dongcopter is kinda hard to contest consistently, you can still bounce DK off for more chip damage. And fat heavies are built on the principle that they lose neutral a lot but if the win a few times they take a stock.

needs a massive shaving of lag in just about everything. Jab, tilts, Gale Strike, aerials so he can deal with pressure and have better combo ability. Then having his other throws that are not Down Throw do something useful like semispiking, his Up Smash having better horizontal hitboxes to match the animation, and doing something so his default recovery isn't complete garbage.

I vote anything goes. If that doesn't count then .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So he is even tougher to kill off? No thanks. Who besides can gimp Cloud hard and consistently?

I did play around against Cloud while using Meta Knight. Anyway, considering how bad Cloud's recovery normally is, he needs to be careful with which aerial attacks he uses when trying to get back onto the stage.

Also, a 4 point weight increase really isn't too drastic if you still don't see much of a difference on how quickly the fighter can get KO'd.

 

[Furret24]

While I would love to see Cloud get massive nerfs due to finding him really annoying, the only nerf I think he really needs is a Limit Cross Slash nerf. It's undeniable that this move is a little too overtuned, having next to no startup, insane damage output, huge range infront of Cloud, nonexistent ending lag, and very high kill power.

- Total move duration increased (61 FAF -> 70 FAF). This would open a small window for opponents to punish Cloud for using this attack recklessly, as it's borderline unpunishable for most characters right now.
- Hit 5 has decreased damage output (10% -> 8%). This change would make the move kill at more appropriate percents, around 15%-20% later (90%-100% ). It would also slightly tone down the move's insane damage output to something less ridiculous, yet still really good.
- Angle altered (50 -> 58 degrees), making it slightly worse for offstage kills and making it slightly easier to DI in general.
- Intangibility frames reduced (6-11 -> 8-11), making the move slightly more punishable on startup.

I think these moves would tone down the move's strengths, while keeping the viability of the move. As even with these changes, it would still be a very good move.

I think making uair and dair's autocancel windows and active durations less stupid would be nice too, but it's not necessary.

 

[Zerp]

Limit Cross Slash definitely could go for a nerfing, I've had it used on me easily more than 200 times and I've only been able to punish it... six times I think? And even those six times were probably a fluke, that move is just straight up stupid and needs to be toned down, but anyways, I don't think he needs many nerfs after that, but I'd appreciate them if they happened as well, there's too many Clouds right now imo and I'd like to give some incentive for less loyal Cloud mains to pick up someone else.

Here's Cloud's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/18NQOxCcy_BJe8po0W9j0IR-FWYsuThhArSJ7aZTDuWE/viewanalytics

Here's Bowser's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/ttuBNtzIo4oJfMin1

You can vote for any of these strange organisms.
I'll vote for, uh , I guess.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

had a great chance to be a fearful competitor...and then his Koo Pah got nerfed He's barely hanging in mid-low tier, and he's basically standing on the results of Lord Mix alone. My suggested changes:

+ Reduce KBG of U-throw, but not quite to 1.1.3 status (KBG: 180 --> 170) so Koo Pah has a wider range of connecting.
+ Greatly decrease end lag of U-tilt (FAF: 41 --> 35) and D-smash (FAF: 72 --> 60).
+ Make D-tilt require two presses to do both swipes, so a single swipe is possible (Hit 1 FAF: 46 --> 31 // Hit 2 FAF: N/A --> 46).
+ Increase KBG of U-air (KBG: 85 --> 90). Between the three beasts with head swing up-airs, DK's has speed and Charizard's has range, so Bowser's should have power to compensate.
+ Decrease landing lag of D-air and B-air (Landing lag: 40 --> 35).
+ Make Flying Slam kill either the opponent first or Bowser and the opponent at the same time.


Voting for the bane of Brawl, .

 

[L9999]

had a great chance to be a fearful competitor...and then his Hoo Hah got nerfed. He's barely hanging in mid-low tier, and he's basically standing on the results of Lord Mix alone. My suggested changes:

+ Reduce KBG of U-throw, but not quite to 1.1.3 status (KBG: 180 --> 170) so Koo Pah has a wider range of connecting.
+ Greatly decrease end lag of U-tilt (FAF: 41 --> 35) and D-smash (FAF: 72 --> 60).
+ Make D-tilt require two presses to do both swipes, so a single swipe is possible (Hit 1 FAF: 46 --> 31 // Hit 2 FAF: N/A --> 46).
+ Increase KBG of U-air (KBG: 85 --> 90). Between the three beasts with head swing up-airs, DK's has speed and Charizard's has range, so Bowser's should have power to compensate.
+ Decrease landing lag of D-air and B-air (Landing lag: 40 --> 35).
+ Make Flying Slam kill either the opponent first or Bowser and the opponent at the same time.


Voting for the bane of Brawl, .

Bowser doesn't rely on LordMix alone. He has DireOnFire, HIKARU, D-Pollo and Chaos. This buffs would make Bowser legit. Then again he is a volatile character by nature.

I vote for anything goes.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

An aesthetic change would be for Bowser's voice clips. Kenny James's work needs some more attention, especially considering that Bowser Jr. managed to keep his typical voice clips.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

had a great chance to be a fearful competitor...and then his Koo Pah got nerfed.

Though while the throw's combo potential and kill confirm window were lessened to a degree in the 1.14 patch, the knockback growth increase actually let's his up air kill earlier then before.

However, I still preferred the extra combo mix ups over a smaller but stronger kill option.
Maybe just revert the Knock-back growth back to 155, and give up air more Knock Back to make up for it.

As for the rest of Bowser, I say just fix the hitbox issues with his F-tilt & Koopa Klaw and make his moves a bit safe on shield.

The biggest one in my opinion being Fire Breath, cutting off 5 frames of both start up and end lag should do the trick.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

An aesthetic change would be for Bowser's voice clips. Kenny James's work needs some more attention, especially considering that Bowser Jr. managed to keep his typical voice clips.

I wouldn't mind a bit livelier sounding Bowser. Not sure why they went for the voice style they did. I mean, For Donkey Kong it makes sense, but giant spiky turtles don't exactly have a sound to go by. (What does the turtle say?) Dr. Mario needs this too. Even more so than Bowser just because of his obviously pieced together winning animations.

Another sound clip nitpick, why did they change Pit's "The Fight is on!" sound clip? I know he got a completely different voice actor, but why did they change it to "Come on!"? It isn't an actual taunt like the infamous "You're too slow!", and it isn't out of character like "You're not ready yet.". Nintendo plz fix.

EDIT: I looked at the list of moves Bowser can not flinch from in that video MrGameguycolor brought up and...He might as well flinch from everything if it only works on the first one or two of jabs and not much else.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I vote for

 

[Zerp]

An aesthetic change would be for Bowser's voice clips. Kenny James's work needs some more attention, especially considering that Bowser Jr. managed to keep his typical voice clips.

I wouldn't mind a bit livelier sounding Bowser.

I agree with you guys, that'd be a really welcome addition, and even though it isn't technically one, I'd consider it the best possible buff Bowser could receive.

Anyways, for Bowser, I think it'd be great if they restored the former up-throw knockback, and slightly decrease his lag in general, I don't think he needs much fixing after that.
Here's his results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1bolKFHJ-Cq2SG4aXQOfdUModO3IinEbAhlMCFeS4H6I/viewanalytics
And here's Kirby's poll for the day: http://goo.gl/forms/BDMUWojUxMZ3uc5w1


You can vote for any of these lovely folk who may or may not have unleashed the king of the underworld just because they were hungry for some strawberry shortcake.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

With my new definitions of tiers, I have in lower mid tier instead of low tier, but he still needs several changes to be a big threat. My buff suggestions:

+ Increase air speed (0.8 --> 0.9) and jump height. For whatever reason, he's pretty easy to gimp even with five mid-air jumps, so these changes would help that and also improve his air game in general.
+ Increase damage of D-throw (10.2 --> 12.5). It's currently his worst throw, so at least make it useful for something.
+ Greatly decrease end lag of N-air (FAF: 73 --> 60). It's otherwise great for edgeguarding, except you can easily kill yourself.
+ Slightly decrease end lag of U-air (FAF: 40 --> 38), though aerial mobility improvements might already increase its combo ability.
+ Decrease startup of all specials by 3 frames (Inhale 14 --> 11, Hammer Flip 26 --> 23, Final Cutter 23 --> 18, aerial Stone 29 --> 26), and decrease end lag of Stone by 3 frames (FAF 32 --> 29).


Voting .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Kirby needs more air speed, as his recovery move really doesn't help his horizontal recovery, and unlike Meta Knight, Kirby lacks any recovery diversity, so he pretty much needs the air speed buff to help reduce how many times he needs to do a mid-air jump.

I did raise Kirby's air speed to 1.04, but some people might find it to be a bit too much. All I can say is that Kirby needs the air speed buff way more than Meta Knight, who never really needed to see his air speed get a huge buff up to 0.99 after Brawl; Mach Tornado and Drill Rush could easily overcome the weak air speed, though I guess the increased falling speed may explain the air speed increase as well.

 

[MarioMeteor]

The little pink maniac could use some less lag on neutral air (was Twinkle Star that slow in the Kirby games?) and up air.

Voting Marth.

 

[kendikong]

What I believe Kirby's weakness is is his slow horizontal mobility in the air.

I mean he has great combos from dair, but it's so easy to just move out of the way whenever he tries that approach

 

[Zerp]

Kirby's odd, I'd like to see him buffed, but I'm not sure how, his airspeed is a bit slow, buuut he's pretty slow in his games as well, not that slow but I feel like it makes sense, sort of. I guess it wouldn't be bad though if it was increased a little bit though, but honestly, I'm kind of clueless on how to buff him. Hopefully he gets... something else?

Here's his results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Yf4PKkzGcO6PCGF7uSoKT-pGvK9U5zNsc1dFzsVQXvA/viewanalytics
Here's Marth's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/1WeUaTJLzzC47nks2

You may vote for any of these fabulous individuals.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Kirby's odd, I'd like to see him buffed, but I'm not sure how, his airspeed is a bit slow, buuut he's pretty slow in his games as well, not that slow but I feel like it makes sense, sort of. I guess it wouldn't be bad though if it was increased a little bit though, but honestly, I'm kind of clueless on how to buff him. Hopefully he gets... something else?

To be very fair, Yoshi really doesn't move very fast while flutter jumping in his games, and yet he has the highest air speed of all the playable fighters (excluding Limit Break Cloud, Wario-Man, and Giga Mac).

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Oh gosh, ... In my mind he's certainly a high tier with his good representation and great theory, but it still feels like he's underwhelming. I want to slightly buff him, but I'm not sure what to give him that wouldn't turn him into Melee Marth. Preferably a tad bit less end lag on jab, D-throw, DB hit 1, and aerials, but I fear that may be too much.

+ Jab FAF 26 --> 24
+ D-throw less end lag, no longer weight dependent
+ N-air FAF 50 --> 48
+ F-air FAF 38 --> 36
+ B-air FAF 40 --> 38
+ U-air FAF 36 --> 34
+ D-air FAF 60 --> 54
+ Dancing Blade hit 1 FAF 42 --> 40

Still voting .

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To be very fair, Yoshi really doesn't move very fast while flutter jumping in his games, and yet he has the highest air speed of all the playable fighters (excluding Limit Break Cloud, Wario-Man, and Giga Mac).

Actually, Yoshi doesn't really loose speed when he flutter jumping, he just doesn't jump nearly as high as he does in the Super Smash Bros. series. Does Yoshi's air speed in smash compare well to his speed in the Yoshi's Island series? That I couldn't tell you.

Also, on the subject of voice clips again, I hope Cloud gets some English voice acting in the next game. (Assuming he makes it in the next game.) (alsowhydidn'ttheymakenewpalutena'sguidenceforthedlccharactersbecausetheyobviouslystillhadthevoiceactorsforbayonetta'strailer)

 

[MarioMeteor]

While Marth is very fabulous, there are still some things holding him back from being as good as he could be.

Spoiler: Forward air

First of all, forward air. That move is rather unrewarding for how lackluster the frame data is.
Active frames - frame 6-8 -> frame 5-8. Landing lag decreased - 16 -> 12. FAF - frame 38 -> frame 36. Angle - 361 -> 65.

While it wouldn't be as godlike as it was in Melee and Brawl, it would still be a more versatile move because of the increased speed, and the new angle would help it synch better with his other moves.

Spoiler: Down air

This move just plain ****ing sucks.

The hitbox at the tip that does 13% has been removed and replaced with the spike hitbox, meaning that tipper down air will always spike no matter what.
FAF - frame 60 -> frame 55, landing lag decreased - 24 frames -> 20 frames.

Spoiler: Throws

Forward throw BKB - 100 -> 80.
Down throw BKB - 95 -> 85.

Essentially, these two will become actual combo throws, instead of whatever they're supposed to be now.

And give him back his Counter quotes.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Actually, Yoshi doesn't really loose speed when he flutter jumping, he just doesn't jump nearly as high as he does in the Super Smash Bros. series.[/SIZE]

Odd, because I do recall moments where Yoshi appeared to move slower whenever he flutter jumps. And this does include his appearances in the Super Mario titles as well.

 

[Zerp]

To be very fair, Yoshi really doesn't move very fast while flutter jumping in his games, and yet he has the highest air speed of all the playable fighters (excluding Limit Break Cloud, Wario-Man, and Giga Mac).

Huh, I didn't know that, that's a very interesting tidbit and a good point, maybe I should approach the Kirby thing differently.

Anyways, about Marth, I think he's either the highest mid tier character or a low high tier, either way though, he's pretty strong, but he's also one of the most requested characters to get buffed. Which kind of annoys me being honest, he's got so much and was helped out so much by the patches, yet it still feels like people want him buffed more than nearly everyone else. Don't get me wrong, I feel he could use a bit more touching up, but, it concerns me that the want for Marth buffs has always been so gargantuan, it's like people only care about Marth and think the game's balance should revolve around him or something like that. Anyways, I begrudgingly think he should get some small buffs but give him a little too much, and I'mma be mad.

Here's his results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1i3LlsBYU_MwtamFkmN2EexCaB9xPY9qNGGA-TibRa0A/viewanalytics
Here's Meta Knight's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/dyOFLQXE5wZErHKx1

You may vote for any of these people who wish they owned a giant flying battleship.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

In my eyes, is a high to top tier character with great frame data and combos, great recovery and edgeguarding, and plenty of ways to kill. He lost his ladder combo to death on most characters and his neutral is kind of lacking, but besides that he has plenty of strengths that warrant a top 15 position. I personally want buffs to D-tilt (more range), U-tilt (a bit more horizontal range and a bit less end lag), and U-air (reduce SDI multiplier a tiny bit), but I know that they might push him back to top 5, where he was before nerfs. He's losing a few full-time mains, but he still retains enough representation to be a great character overall.

Voting his best top tier matchup, .

 

[L9999]

Anyways, about Marth, I think he's either the highest mid tier character or a low high tier, either way though, he's pretty strong, but he's also one of the most requested characters to get buffed. Which kind of annoys me being honest, he's got so much and was helped out so much by the patches, yet it still feels like people want him buffed more than nearly everyone else. Don't get me wrong, I feel he could use a bit more touching up, but, it concerns me that the want for Marth buffs has always been so gargantuan, it's like people only care about Marth and think the game's balance should revolve around him or something like that. Anyways, I begrudgingly think he should get some small buffs but give him a little too much, and I'mma be mad.

It's because Marth actually is a character now instead of a game breaking beast (Don't know why they miss these 2, they are broken).

is fine where he is, he doesn't have game breaking jank anymore.

EDIT:

snip

Those things were nerfed from Brawl for a reason

I vote .

 

[MarioMeteor]

The fact that he can kill you at 90% by landing a dash attack is kind of annoying, but other than that I don't think he needs any other changes.

It's because Marth actually is a character now instead of a game breaking beast (Don't know why they miss these 2, they are broken).

is fine where he is, he doesn't have game breaking jank anymore.

I vote .

Marth was never broken, only really good. Several times better than the Marth we have now.

I vote for Spa- I mean Samus.