The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[MarioMeteor]

After some testing...Yeah don't use Sakunetsu Haduken on Bowser. Everyone else seems to be fair game though. There could be some moves that a character can use to get heavy armour, but I think more often than not you're probably dealing with super armour instead, and either way you could punish players for that anyway, so I'm going to stand by my opinion that Sakunetsu Haduken is at useful enough to put in the effort. (Unless you are afraid of accidentally doing a Shoryuken or a backwards Tatsumaki Senpukyaku instead.)

I like how you spelled Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku correctly while misspelling Hadouken twice.

Anyway, there are only two situations in which Shakunetsu would be a better option than Hadouken: against another Ryu and against someone who likes to shield. Other than that, the difference between the two is miniscule, so you might as well go for Hadouken.

 

[Zerp]

Ryu is very strong imo but also commands a great deal of effort and understanding to use said strength, I think he's fine honestly, although I wouldn't be opposed to slight nerfs.
Here's his results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1WTb0IHodI04DiyoTBYTbj-phpiuw4cYDVG9R1pn0dk8/viewanalytics
And here's Wario's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/KKKzn6XftwincVKu1

You may vote for any of these CHEATERS!

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

At this point is a bit underwhelming. He's pretty good, but he lacks reliable combo moves and good kill moves. My buff suggestions:

+ Make F-smash faster (AF 18-19 --> 15-16 // FAF 66 --> 58) and D-smash more powerful (KBG 80/84/88 --> 90/94/98).
+ Decrease damage (4,7 --> 4,4) and end lag of U-throw so it now functions as a combo throw.
+ Decrease end lag of F-air (FAF 38 --> 34) and D-air (FAF 48 --> 44).


Voting Capcom's last hope, .

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

RYU IS SUPER SLOW ZERO STARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please keep information relevant to the discussion and with more information provided to help the thread.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wario does have a good recovery with his high air mobility, combined with a mix between Wario Bike, Corkscrew, and a fully charged Wario Waft. Of course, some of his attacks could afford to have some more power or less lag to be more effective.

 

[ArcGale]

IMO they should change the angle on D-Throw and reduce the endlag on it, to make it more of a combo throw at lower percents. Should be more like Toon Link D-throw. This, or decrease the waft timer, which is at 1:50min, to 1:35, since it's the only thing keeping Wario at a decent spot.

 

[ElectroLightning]

Wario doesn't need too many buffs. Maybe shave some lag off of his smashes, or give him a decent combo throw.

 

[Axel311]

As a Wario main, I think some buffs would be completely fair. He is too dependent on waft and he really struggles to kill outside of it. And he has major range issues and approach issues. He's probably somewhere around the middle of the tier list at the moment. He's not in a terrible position by any means, but some buffs would be warranted.

I'd like to see:

- Endlag reduction on Dsmash, I don't see any reason for it to be THAT laggy considering it doesn't even have strong knockback for a smash attack
- Less startup and end lag on Uptilt
- Less startup lag on Ftilt
- Literally do anything with his jab to make it not worthless. It's just an inferior dtilt at the moment. Atleast make the 2nd hit connect properly.
- Buff items eaten from 1% and 1 sec off waft to 3% and 3 seconds off waft, so the eating mechanic actually means something. 1% and 1 second off waft is just too insignificant.
- Small buff to his groundspeed, to help with his approach.
- Increased hitbox size on nair
- Buff bair to kill 5-10% earlier

I don't think any of that is over the top or would make him better than top 15. I wouldn't mind a fart nerf in exchange for solid buffs to frame data, approach and non-waft kill options. It would be a good thing to shift more of the character's power away from waft so that the character isn't so inconsistent.

 

[L9999]

I don't know much about Wario but one thing that should never be done is un-nerf him to be like . He would be absurdly ridiculous, doing aerials like he pleases with zero lag, moving around like , camping all he wants, and living forever because he is heavy and has a very good recovery.

 

[ArcGale]

- Literally do anything with his jab to make it not worthless. It's just an inferior dtilt at the moment. Atleast make the 2nd hit connect properly.
- Buff items eaten from 1% and 1 sec off waft to 3% and 3 seconds off waft, so the eating mechanic actually means something. 1% and 1 second off waft is just too insignificant.

I second this.

 

[Zerp]

I think Wario could use some buffs, it's surreal to think that at one point in time I thought he was actually Top 10 (Probably a major overestimation lol), I think he's pretty average right now, not bad at all, but could definitely do with some tuning to become better overall.
Here's Wario's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Ndd35XfqrpeESqmJCqA96vo8lfTGQP6lvY2TAX1R87g/viewanalytics
Here's Mega Man's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/BcR7HcOI90DrvCYI2

You may vote for any of these lucky fellows who hopefully won't get a terrible spiritual successor in the foreseeable future.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

made a sudden jump up the tier lists recently, and it's no surprise why: Kamemushi and ScAtt among many others have recently placed very well in tournaments with him, showing what his insane projectile play can do. He zones well, he racks up damage well, and he has plenty of kill moves and setups, not to mention that he survives well and can defend himself while recovering. In my eyes he's an upper high tier at this point, and I don't think he needs to be changed at all.

Voting the king of For Glory, .

 

[MarioMeteor]

Mega Man is one of those characters that gets no love due to being in the nethereigons of mid tier. He could use little buffs here and there that would boost him up to a more respectable position, like maybe more damage on Flame Sword, less lag on slide, better throws, little things like that. For the most part though, he is a good character, if hard to master. Too bad about his franchise, though.

Voting for Doc.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Honestly, he probably doesn't need to be changed at all.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Can't think of much for Mega Man. Heck, I never even touched his attributes. I do know, however, that it's not easy to utilize Mega Man's moveset when a good portion of his attacks can be reflected right back at him.

In other words, Mega Man has been one of my least favorite fighters to be using.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not exactly what I can contribute even with being a Mega Man main, but I don't think reflectors are a big problem for Mega Man. As long as you don't get a Charge Shot reflected or something, it won't be the end of the world, and if you're smart enough, your projectiles won't be reflected often. (Especially considering that the Mega Buster usually isn't worth reflecting.)

As far as buffs go. I don't think he needs any.

 

[Zerp]

I don't I honestly understand Mega Man well enough to put any thoughts on him, given results he appears to be a high tier, but I can't tell how much of that is Mega Man's strength versus his playerbase's strength.
Here's Mega Man's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/130Y11cT--YSBKDGD74Ixq9P4y613pcmhgwxaEk3kDWc/viewanalytics
Here's Dr. Mario's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/M268BH6bNKR67v6J2

You may vote for any of these unlucky patients waiting for Dr. Mario to finally stop watching TV and treat them.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

obviously has some flaws that need to be addressed to keep him from being strictly a worse Mario:

+ More weight (98 --> 101) so the reasoning behind his lower speed makes sense.
+ More hitstun and preferably more damage on up-air. I like how it has different trajectory than Mario's, but it should still combo without being susceptible to a punish for landing the move.
+ Increase the damage of throws to round numbers (8.96, 12.32, 7.84, 5.6 --> 9, 12.5, 8, 6), which will also make them more useful.
+ Make F-air slightly quicker (AF 16,17-19,20-22 --> 14,15-17,18-20, FAF 60 --> 56) so the combo from D throw isn't quite as strict.
+ Make Doc Tornado go farther and end sooner (FAF 75 --> 65) to make it better for recovery.


Voting .

 

[kendikong]

He has less combo potential and worse recovery. If you just make him faster and have a better recovery he is basically just regular Mario.

I like the idea of a Mario that plays a little more like a heavyhitter than just a comboer. How about buffing bthrow so its like a discount ness bair. Buffing the kill power of up b, so it's like a discount shoryuken. Or, give him a hoo ha kill confirm that works for a small percent range. That should give Mario users a reason to play him instead of red Mario.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The speed multipliers that Dr. Mario has can be an eyesore. While I can't alter the speed multipliers, I am able to alter Dr. Mario's speed values before the multipliers are applied.

What I basically did was set Dr. Mario's walk speed, run speed, air speed, and air acceleration to 1.08x Mario's values. The multipliers would then give me the following values...

Walk Speed: 0.97416
Run Speed: 1.43424
Air Speed: 1.00602
Air Acceleration: 0.061992

These speed changes enable Dr. Mario to walk faster than Captain Falcon, run slightly faster than Greninja's walk speed, and move slightly faster in the air than Bowser and Robin.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Rather then going into a long rant about why I want Doc to be buffed.
I'll just say that I think he needs a small dose of almost everything.
Slightly better ground, air speed, damage, kill knock-back, combo knock-back, and recovery.

Aside from those, the only other thing I'd like to see are the sour-spots of his F-Smash & F-Air replaced with sweet-spots and have his tornado connect the multi-hits way more consistently.

 

[Zerp]

Here's Doctor Mario's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ZkFOZtisCKhqhHeLMeVCKwRB5cyMDiisd9MZIlyOUqU/viewanalytics
Here's Little Mac's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/r2ZtXyU8fo13q1UK2

You may vote for any of these unfortunate souls who never had Doc. Louis as their personal coach.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

EDIT: Never mind about me being gone, I forgot this is one of the few websites that I can actually use on my phone.


Oh, , how you were poorly designed. They nailed the "bad air fighter" aspect just fine and even made some nerfs to his air game. However, he's supposed to have fantastic ground game to compensate, yet he struggles against shield and his grab and throws are quite bad, so it's not even outstanding. My buff suggestions:

+ Revert his nerfs from 1.0.4. None of them were warranted in any way.
+ Give him a good combo throw (preferably D-throw) and kill throw (preferably B-throw).
+ Increase his grab range and decrease end lag on dash grab.
+ I'm fine with how weak his aerials are, but please decrease their lag for compensation.
+ Make D-smash hit almost entirely horizontally for better edgeguarding.
-- Decrease length of super armor on smash attacks. This is currently his only "overwhelming" factor, and so this nerf would counterbalance the many buffs I want.


Voting .

 

[Furret24]

+ I'm fine with how weak his aerials are, but please decrease their lag and/or give them useful autocancels for compensation.

While i'm not going to argue with the "decrease their lag" part, i'd just like to say that Mac has four aerials that autocancel in a shorthop, and his fifth can autocancel in a fullhop. His autocancel windows are already pretty good.

+ Make D-smash semi-spike like it used to.

What are you talking about? The move still semispikes, and it's always semispiked.

-- Decrease length of super armor on smash attacks. This is currently his only "overwhelming" factor.

I'm mixed on this. The current super armor windows make it to where Mac can counterattack opponents in a sense with them. These decreased armor windows would hinder their use that way. If you want to slightly nerf them due to them being "overwhelming" (which, I dunno. His ground attacks are supposed to be crazy good, having borderline lagless tilts and jab that are designed to be incontestable that can also lead into his strong attacks or kill on their own), i'd suggest increasing their ending lag by a few frames. Even on whiff, the moves can be really hard for some characters to punish (particularly slow ones).

I also don't Mac should have a good grab game, but I don't wanna touch on that subject right now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

While i'm not going to argue with the "decrease their lag" part, i'd just like to say that Mac has four aerials that autocancel in a shorthop, and his fifth can autocancel in a shorthop. His autocancel windows are already pretty good.

Yay! Redundancy! (I assume you meant four out of five aerials autocancel in a full jump, while the fifth one autocancels in a short hop.)

+ Give him a good combo throw (preferably D-throw) and kill throw (preferably B-throw).

I don't think that's a good idea. The only way to do that would be to cut down the knockback to about half, in which you could do any number of things. Neutral Attack, Forward Tilt, or even a Forward Smash, which can tack on 33 damage in one throw (if it comboed). You could give the throw a wierd ark to let it combo into Jolt Haymaker, but that would allow Little Mac to tac on about 29 damage, which is also too much in a combo throw. (I just found out you can use Up Throw to Rising Uppercut, and at later percents, Down Throw to rising uppercut, which can kill at around 120 percent. (In Omega Boxing Ring, haven't tested elsewhere.) It's not a true combo at kill percents, but if you get the read and land the hit, they're dead. I think that's a good enough combo from a throw from Little Mac.)

 

[Arthur97]

Giving Mac a good grab game would kind of conflict with his design as a relatively realistic boxer. Besides, have you ever tried grabbing something (let alone someone) while wearing those gloves?

 

[kendikong]

Mac is pretty good though. Only thing I would suggest is to just give him better ground traction or an up B that snaps to the ledge.

 

[Zerp]

Today's update's probably going to be late again due to some unrelated events, it might be on time, but I'm not making any promises.

 

[Zerp]

Little Mac should definitely get unnerfed at the very least, and after that I'd say he still needs some improvements, honestly, I'd probably try to make his ground game even stronger till he's "balanced", even if it's in a very polarizing way.

Here's his results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ROuo3NLUv9YF5X6dgcxybZZTHbwS3caMuK9yVNblz-E/viewanalytics
Here's Robin's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/GOl3nl0qYdXylo3f1


You may vote for any of these creatures that are not Waluigi...yet.

 

[ArcGale]

Robin is on the verge of being High Tier IMO, he just needs either a run speed buff or the un-nerf of his Wind Jab along with improved air speed.

Voting .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The only changes that I gave to Robin are quite small; walk speed increased to 0.9; weight increased to 98.

Anyway, as a tactician fighter, Robin pretty much has to be on the slow side. Of course, decreasing the recharge times for the tomes could help Robin more, but the recharge times do need to stay fair. For some examples...

Thunder: 8 seconds
Arcfire: 8 seconds
Elwind: 4 seconds
Nosferatu: 30 seconds

 

[Tizio Random]

Robin is one of my two mains and I think he is one of the most overlooked characters in the game. The only thing I want for him is a slight increase in run speed, he is so slow that sometimes I think I'm accidentally walking. Just a tiny bit, not that much.

Also voting for

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

in my eyes is a solid mid tier who could easily be great with a few buffs:

+ Increase all movement speed by a little bit.
+ Decrease grab end lag. Why is it so laggy when, for example, Lucas's grab is just as laggy for better range and throws and a Zair?
+ Make Levin Sword only wear out when it hits something of "substance" (a character, a shield, Luma, etc.). This could be counterbalanced with an increase in respawn time and/or a decrease in durability if it becomes broken, but at the moment it's current system makes little sense and is detrimental to his up close play.


Voting Abada--I mean .

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

+ Decrease grab end lag. Why is it so laggy when, for example, Lucas's grab is just as laggy for better range and throws and a Zair?

I don't get your exam-... Just realized I misread Lucas as Lucina for whatever reason. Never mind.

+ Make Levin Sword only wear out when it hits something of "substance" (a character, a shield, Luma, etc.). This could be counterbalanced with an increase in respawn time and/or a decrease in durability if it becomes broken, but at the moment it's current system makes little sense and is detrimental to his up close play.

I don't think this is completely necessary. Robin players spam the Levin Sword as much as they do because it comes back extremely quickly. But even though they spam the Levin Sword a lot, it is usually when they are sure it is going to hit like in an Elthunder or Arcfire combo.

 

[Zerp]

I think Robin is a high end mid tier that could use buffs and should get them, but at the same time, I really don't want him buffed anymore, he's kinda like Marth in the respect that he's been buffed to oblivion, and I can't help but feel that if it's taking him this long to get to the level he needs to be, the love he's receiving should be spread out a bit more to other characters. Still, I think he should ultimately be buffed, I just also don't like the fact that he can get more buffs because I'm envious.

Here's his results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vx05GO_rLJZbzhaydCpbg_jN3iIEcQ1ApuW0v1qC2eM/viewanalytics
And here's Mewtwo's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/FoPodCWiFwzrRM9v1


You may vote for any of these inferior, non-GMO, specimens.

 

[Furret24]

Mewtwo has certainly had a rise since his release last April. He's probably fine as is right now, but I see how some would argue that his fair could use minor nerfs, due it's low lag and high power (it has frame data comparable to Sheik's fair, but it has more range and much more KO power than it), which could be seen as overwhelming, especially to slower characters like Ganondorf, who could have issues dealing with it.

Voting for

 

[MarioMeteor]

While Mewtwo is very good, he still has some minor issues, namely with his throws. For one, fix his grab, because the hitbox is rather misleading compared to the animation. Second, his down throw needs less ending lag because it's completely dependent on getting a read right now. Maybe in return they could nerf his forward air or something.

Voting Luigi.

 

[Green Zelda]

Mewtwo doesn't need anything, but I wish his up tilt had a hitbox behind him.

Vote's going to !

 

[Furret24]

Mewtwo doesn't need anything, but I wish his up tilt had a hitbox behind him.

Vote's going to !

Technically, it does. It's just not very low, especially when you're not directly behind him.

http://i.imgur.com/JUKfyPe.gif

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I know that Mewtwo has gotten buffs for quite a while, but there are still some things that have bothered me with Mewtwo.

First up is its grab range, where I feel that its dash grab needs a better reach; it can still whiff if you mistime the grab. Of course, I have yet to try to modify the range of Mewtwo's grabs, so I'll just have to experiment on how well an increased grab range for Mewtwo would work out.

Another dilemma is Mewtwo's weight, where I just never understood why it's the second lightest fighter in the game. I decided to raise its weight to 85 (its Melee weight), as 85 is still a rather light weight value.

I also increased Mewtwo's fall speed to 1.68, which has a mix of good and bad outcomes in that Mewtwo not only touches ground faster, but the fall speed increase makes it more vulnerable to combos.

So in a way, the improved longevity comes with the cost of being a bit more combo vulnerable, though I did leave Mewtwo's gravity untouched. As such, Mewtwo's recovery can still do the job if you remember that Confusion gives Mewtwo a little bit of a height boost whenever it's used.