The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[L1N3R1D3R]

Yet again, why isn't there a "change but overall the same viability" option? would fit perfectly in that category:

+ Increase grab range on all forms. The animation can be misleading.
+ Decrease end lag on D-throw so it can true combo reliably.
• Significantly increase weight (74 --> 82). Mostly good, but could be bad.
-- For Fair, either increase startup so it's just a kill move or decrease knockback so it's just a combo move. The fact that it's both is kinda ridiculous.
-- My solution to the infinite combo: Increase end lag of Disable so it doesn't work at early percents and needs more damage to kill.


Voting #1 on my tier list ATM, .

 

[Zerp]

Yet again, why isn't there a "change but overall the same viability" option?

That's a pretty good question, the reason that there isn't that option is because, well, I honestly never really thought about it being one. I would go ahead and add that as a option for R.O.B. and the rest of the characters but then that'd be inconsistent with all the other characters we already did this round, so I think I'll probably end up adding that next round, and will definitely hold a vote over it though at least. Sorry for not thinking about that earlier.


Anyway, about Mewtwo, I think he's perfectly fine and good the way he is, I wouldn't change him at all.
Here's Mewtwo's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vCpI7ZnJ4847zVy3XtmyKpvikhAXmaHBz9M26gctxJE/viewanalytics
Here's R.O.B.'s poll: http://goo.gl/forms/xW4La5xWESRehlz83

You may vote for any of these weird people that have this weird stuff called "organs" on the inside, isn't that just so weeeiiirddd?
I vote for .

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is fairly balanced in my opinion. He has some bad frame data, but his traps and kill power made up for it...at launch. He got a small nerf to his kill power, and I don't understand why. My one change:

+ Unnerf U throw. I don't really see what the problem was with it, as we now have Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucas, and arguably Kirby with just as, if not more powerful up throws that weren't nerfed. Why R.O.B.?


Voting Mr. Hoo Hah, . (Are you sure has organs? )

 

[MarioMeteor]

is fairly balanced in my opinion. He has some bad frame data, but his traps and kill power made up for it...at launch. He got a small nerf to his kill power, and I don't understand why. My one change:

+Unnerf U throw. I don't really see what the problem was with it, as we now have Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucas, and arguably Kirby with just as, if not more powerful up throws that weren't nerfed. Why R.O.B.?


Voting Mr. Hoo Hah, . (Are you sure has organs? )

R.O. B already has a Hoo-Hah, which none of those characters did, so having an up throw that powerful was excessive. It basically meant that if you got grabbed at above 80%, your ass was dead.

 

[Arthur97]

Perhaps the up throw should be buffed, just not back to its previous levels. Plus, why have they not fixed his eyes?

 

[Furret24]

R.O. B already has a Hoo-Hah, which none of those characters did, so having an up throw that powerful was excessive. It basically meant that if you got grabbed at above 80%, your *** was dead.

I think it's worth mentioning that Lucas has a Hoo Haa. I don't know why it works, but it does. It's pretty decent too.

Anyway, I think reverting ROB's up throw nerd is fine (60 Base/70 Growth -> 70 Base/72 Growth, which will make it kill about as early as Mewtwo's if take DI into account), as he's been struggling recently in competitive play, and could use a really good kill confirm.

I also want to add more changes, but I don't have any in mind, outside of fixing his eyes (something they should've done back in 1.0.4, but still haven't, over a year later).

Voting for

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Perhaps the up throw should be buffed, just not back to its previous levels. Plus, why have they not fixed his eyes?

I also want to add more changes, but I don't have any in mind, outside of fixing his eyes (something they should've done back in 1.0.4, but still haven't, over a year later).

What's wrong with his eyes?

 

[Arthur97]

They don't emote in multiplayer.

 

[Furret24]

What's wrong with his eyes?

To quote Smashwiki:

"As of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U version 1.1.6, a glitch exists where R.O.B.'s eyes do not emote in any of the standard game modes, whether he is damaged, asleep, etc. However, his eyes function normally in the solo modes and in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS. Something similar to this happens to Olimar when he is buried or frozen."

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To quote Smashwiki:

"As of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U version 1.1.6, a glitch exists where R.O.B.'s eyes do not emote in any of the standard game modes, whether he is damaged, asleep, etc. However, his eyes function normally in the solo modes and in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS. Something similar to this happens to Olimar when he is buried or frozen."

I remember that in Brawl, whenever Kirby wears the Samus cap, his eyes never blink at all. And the odd part of the story is that the Samus cap model actually has multiple eye textures, and there is animation data that shows Kirby's eyes blinking.

 

[Zerp]

(Are you sure has organs? )

Huh.... Uhm... Maybe he has... 2D organs? Totally not making that up, he certainly has organs, definitely, there's no way I was wrong in assuming he had them./s

I think R.O.B. is a high-mid tier and is pretty well off for the most part, I'd like to see him buffed but not by that much, he's already pretty good. Oh, and fix his eyes as well, why they haven't changed that yet is puzzling.

Here's R.O.B.'s results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1RbjgYFU2BXCQUOza2dY9N1F8-EjnuxAKozqY051Dbzk/viewanalytics
Here's Diddy Kong's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/6Hbtw7QH7MMSy8Yj1

You may vote for any of these characters that probably don't scream "Hoo Hah!" and make weird chimpanzee noises, well, at least I hope they don't, if they do they should go see a psychiatrist.

 

[Wintermelon43]

You may vote for any of these characters that probably don't scream "Hoo Hah!" and make weird chimpanzee noises, well, at least I hope they don't, if they do they should go see a psychiatrist.

Isn't any worse than Link and Ganon who scream even worse sounds, but they're votable

"EYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY-YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

"HUH-HURRRRRRRRRRRR"

Also Diddy needs no changes.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I don't know what's up with the sudden upsurge in Diddy popularity. Lately I've been hearing people call him the best in the game, which is absurd. At any rate, he's fine, though a slight nerf wouldn't hurt.

Voting Luigi.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is currently #1 on my tier list (amazing theory and tons of results), and as such, he could use a couple nerfs IMO:

-- Increase overall lag on D-tilt. It's just too good for poking, spacing, and setting up for kills at the moment.
-- Increase overall lag on B-air. The fact that it can bait out an air dodge into itself AND KILL is kinda ridiculous.


Voting the owner of his own mansion, .

 

[Furret24]

I think Diddy is fine right now. Though, I would like to give his neutral aerial a proper autocancel window (the move ends frame 49, but the move doesn't autocancel until frame 59).

Voting for .

 

[ElectroLightning]

Hmmm.... I think his Down Tilt needs a startup lag nerf. We TOTALLY need to nerf ZeRo, maybe steal his controllers or something like that.

Voting

 

[New_Dumal]

Diddy time ? Ok, let's go.
I'm alright with characters being good.
I really hate to play with any character I feel is lacking something

But I think Diddy is really good atm... that's awesome and I'm mostly okay with it.
Mostly because I think a little thing should be nerfed: Dtilt.
The problem with DTilt is that Diddy doesn't need that tool at all. He have banana as a reliable setup to kill moves, and decent throws that kill light characters. Diddy builds damage REALLY fast. I mean... one of the fastest characters to build damage in the game, with any throw becoming 20%+ in the opponent stock.
He can even Hoo-Haa some characters to death if you leave him with rage at Town and City.
TL:DR Diddy builds damage too fast to have so many kill setups.
Banana -> USmash, FSmash ... ok.
BThrow and FThrow ... ok.

DTilt -> USmash, Fair, Bair or anything you want ... why?
And what scares me is how safe the move really is. If you miss a DTilt well spaced against majority of the cast, you're fine.
I watched sets where the Diddy player did three DTilts one after another and when the enemy dropped the shield between the second one and the third, he received a USmash and died. Without DTilt being so powerfull Diddy would still being High Tier... it's not like Meta Knight Uair/S.Loop that was all that the character was about.
Diddy have a AMAZING neutral game (#1 IMO), great mobility, average recovery.
Without repeating myself more and more, I got two alternatives:

Keep the move with the same reward, raise the risk of missing or hit a shield.
DTilt FAF (First Active Frame) : 19 -> 26

Keep the framedata, but the move is not a reliabe kill setup anymore.
DTilt KBG: 75 -> 90
DTilt Angle : 40/50/60 -> 45/60/70 (This would help it connect to d-jump aerials, but not for USmash)

I'm voting for my favorite character next:

 

[Zerp]

Personally, I believe Diddy Kong is currently the strongest character in the game but that really isn't a problem to me. What is a problem however, is his D-tilt, it's much like Cloud's limit Side B or the former Bayonetta's diagonal afterburner kick, it gives too much reward for too little risk, so some nerfing of that move would be appreciated although I wouldn't be opposed to him getting some other nerfs as well. Once he and Cloud get nerfs to those moves in particular, I feel like the game's highest tier will probably be about as balanced as we can ever get in a Nintendo-made Smash game, I'd be pretty happy with the Top Tier.

Here's his results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1QYOQAEr1xqxPZF2xiLoKZpQK4X70eNX2vBlwQPemLwE/viewanalytics
Here's Luigi's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/Hl9ZZxh33VvNl6qY2


You may vote for any of these people with better self esteem than Luigi.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Everyone except me said Diddy should be nerfed.

I am ashamed in you guys.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I currently think is a high tier with insane combos and good kill moves, even if there aren't many solid setups into them anymore. What I will say is that his recovery is a weak point for him, and this can be fixed with one simple buff:

+ Make Green Missile travel faster and farther and have less end lag (when missing or hitting). This would help his recovery without making anything else overwhelming, and it would make that move in general worth using in some situations.

EDIT: And while I'm at improving special moves (mostly) for the sake of recovery:

+ Decrease the amount that you need to press B to make down B rise without a jump, and it would also make gimps easier to do. This wouldn't necessarily change his viability, but it would make him easier to pick up for those two aspects.


Voting .

 

[MarioMeteor]

I still stand by what I said that Luigi was unfairly nerfed. However, how I would go about rebuffing him has changed.

Running speed - 1.5 -> 1.6.
Air speed - 0.73418 -> 0.95.
Traction - 0.024 -> 0.044.

Down tilt angle changed (361° -> 74°) and knockback scaling decreased (65 -> 54).

Luigi Cyclone requires significantly less inputs to gain distance.

While restoring his down throw would be great, it wouldn't necessarily restore Luigi to the god he once was, because the meta evolved and there would still be a lot of characters simply better than him. So rather I addressed three of his major weaknesses: his poor mobility, his recovery, and his butter shoes. Seriously, Luigi, those loafers aren't working out for you.

Voting Samus.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I only made one change to Luigi, which is increasing his air speed from 0.7341766, to 0.92. It's still a below average air speed level, but at least Luigi can be less reliant on Green Missile for his horizontal recoveries.

Also, it should be noted that Luigi can't exactly perform follow-ups with his aerials whenever his opponent's current damage is high.

 

[Furret24]

I see all this talk of Luigi being reliant on using Green Missile for recovery, but I almost never see Luigis use it for recovery, even when far from the stage. They almost always just get as close to stage as possible, then double jump Cyclone, followed by up special.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

That's why I improved Green Missile, so that it can help his recovery (and generally have a use). Increasing his air speed would help his recovery, yes, but it would also make his already ridiculous combo game even worse, especially if the value is increased by as much as you guys are suggesting. Do you guys realize how much of an increase 0.2 is? That's the difference between Mario and his PhD counterpart, and that's nothing to sneeze at!

 

[MarioMeteor]

That's why I improved Green Missile, so that it can help his recovery (and generally have a use). Increasing his air speed would help his recovery, yes, but it would also make his already ridiculous combo game even worse, especially if the value is increased by as much as you guys are suggesting. Do you guys realize how much of an increase 0.2 is? That's the difference between Mario and his PhD counterpart, and that's nothing to sneeze at!

As Mario & Sonic Guy pointed out, Luigi's combo game becomes significantly worse at higher percents, and his combo game isn't "ridiculous" anymore, ever since they neutered it. And FYI, Dr. Mario's moveset was altered specifically so that his moves wouldn't chain into each other like Mario's do.

I see all this talk of Luigi being reliant on using Green Missile for recovery, but I almost never see Luigis use it for recovery, even when far from the stage. They almost always just get as close to stage as possible, then double jump Cyclone, followed by up special.

Because even as a recovery option Green Missile is kind of bad, unless you get a Misfire. You should really only use Green Missile if you're out of a jump, at which point you're probably doomed anyway.

 

[Zerp]

Everyone except me said Diddy should be nerfed.

I am ashamed in you guys.

Furret didn't say anything about nerfing or wanting to nerf Diddy, what your saying is only true of the poll, but even if everyone except yourself did want Diddy nerfed, I don't really understand why a majority wanting X character nerfed is something to be ashamed of?

Anyways, I view Luigi as a pretty viable character, bottom of high tier, I think he could use some slight buffs, but he really doesn't need much at all.

Here's Luigi's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Ms_LJHSOUX_Uo-0LPUb7awUTJM23tXbCtO3WvgSVwxI/viewanalytics
Here's Mr. Game and Watch's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/eJL8PR8H3y8AaumD2


You may vote for any of these people who wish they had a victory theme as cool as this.

 

[Furret24]

It appears we're going to be discussing G&W now.

I could direct you to this list of G&W changes I made in another thread.

A List of Game and Watch Change Suggestions

Spoiler

Attributes (Excluding Aerial Attack's Landing Lag)
- Top dash speed increased (1.5264 -> 1.6264).
- Dash speed Acceleration A increased (0.0823 -> 0.0878).
- Dash speed Acceleration B increased (0.04 -> 0.045).
- Top walk speed increased (1.1242 -> 1.2).
- Top aerial speed increased (1.12 -> 1.2).
- Aerial acceleration increased (0.03 -> 0.05).

Jab (Greenhouse)
- Make Jab connect into Rapid Jab faster. I don't know exactly how to fix this, but I think it's worth mentioning, as the move is really inconsistent against characters that either fall fast (ex. Fox or Sheik) or have combo breaker moves (ex. Mario, Sonic, Doc).

Dash Attack (Helmet)
- New early hitbox added on frame 6.
- Early hit basic hitbox data "ID=0x0, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=11.000000, Angle=0x32 (50), KBG=0x46 (70), FKB=0x0, BKB=0x46 (70), Size=7.000000, X=0.000000, Y=3.500000, Z=0.000000"
- Normal early hit duration altered (6-9 -> 7-10).
- Normal early hit duration increased (10% -> 11%).
- Late hit duration increased (10-19 -> 11-29).
- IASA decreased (38 -> 35 FAF).

Forward Tilt (Lion)
- Clean sourspot hitbox data adjusted to match sweetspot.
- Clean 0x0 hit hitbox size increased (4.8u -> 5.3u).
- Clean 0x1 hit hitbox size increased (4u -> 4.5u).
- Late 0x0 hit hitbox size increased (4.5u -> 5u).
- Late 0x1 hit hitbox size increased (3.5u -> 4u).
- Damage output increased (10%/9% Clean, 4% Late -> 12% Clean, 5% Late).
- Knockback of both hits decreased (35 base/100 growth -> 30 base/95 growth).
- Hitbox duration increased (10 Clean, 11-17 Late -> 10-14 Clean, 15-30 Late).
- IASA decreased (38 -> 35 FAF).

Up Tilt (Flagman)
- Hit 1 damage, angle, and knockback values altered so it always links into the second hit (7% -> 4%, 100 -> 110 degrees, 20 base/127 0x0 (125 0x1) growth -> 58 base).
- Hit 2 damage, angle, and knockback altered, making it more viable for combos and killing (7% -> 8%, 115 -> 92 degrees, 30 base/127 0x0 (125 0x1) growth -> 10 base/142 growth).
- Hit 1 0x0 hitbox size and position altered "Size=5.500000, X=0.000000, Y=2.800000, Z=2.400000 -> Size=7.000000, X=0.000000, Y=2.300000, Z=2.400000".
- Hit 1 0x1 hitbox size and position altered "Size=3.000000, X=0.000000, Y=-1.500000, Z=0.000000 -> Size=5.000000, X=0.000000, Y=-0.500000, Z=0.000000".
- Hit 2 0x0 hitbox size and position altered "Size=5.500000, X=0.000000, Y=2.800000, Z=2.400000 -> Size=7.00000, X=0.000000, Y=2.300000, Z=2.400000".
- Hit 2 0x1 hitbox size and position altered "Size=3.000000, X=0.000000, Y=-1.500000, Z=0.000000 -> Size=5.000000, X=0.000000, Y=-0.500000, Z=0.000000".
- Hit 1 duration increased (10-12 -> 10-19).
- Hit 2 duration increased (20-22 -> 20-24).
- IASA decreased (36 -> 29 FAF).

Down Tilt (Manhole)
- Manhole hitbox duration increased (6-11 -> 6-19).
- Manhole hitbox size increased (2.5u -> 4u).
- Windbox duration altered (7-19 -> 6-19).
- IASA decreased (40 -> 28 FAF).

Forward Smash (Fire Attack)
- Sweetspot and sourspot priorities swapped.
- Sweetspot hitbox size increased (5.3u -> 6.3u).
- Sourspot hitbox size slightly increased (3u -> 3.5u).
- Knockback increased (91 growth sweetspot, 100 growth sourspot -> 96 growth sweetspot, 110 growth sourspot).
- Normal hitbox duration increased (17-18 -> 17-20).
- Late hitbox added from frames 21 to 34. Outside of dealing less damage (18%/14% -> 10%/8%), it's identical to the normal hit.

Up Smash (Octopus)
- Hitbox size increased (5.5u -> 6u).
- Hitbox duration slightly increased (24-25 -> 24-27)
- Partial invincibility window slightly increased to cover the whole hitbox duration (4-25 -> 4-27).
- Knockback slightly increased (93 growth -> 98 growth).

Down Smash (Vermin)
- Sweetspot knockback slightly increased (85 growth -> 90 growth).
- Sourspot knockback heavily increased (30 base/65 growth -> 40 base/80 growth).
- 0x2 sweetspot hitbox size and position altered "Size=5.000000, X=0.000000, Y=3.600000, Z=-12.000000 -> Size=6.000000, X=0.000000, Y=3.600000, Z=-11.000000"
- 0x3 sweetspot hitbox size and position altered "Size=5.000000, X=0.000000, Y=3.600000, Z=12.000000 -> Size=6.000000, X=0.000000, Y=3.600000, Z=11.000000"
- 0x0 sourspot hitbox size and position altered "Size=4.500000, X=0.000000, Y=3.600000, -4.800000 -> Size=3.000000, X=0.000000, Y=3.600000, -4.800000"
- IASA decreased (42 -> 33 FAF).

Neutral Aerial (Tropical Fish)
- Hit 1 duration increased (7 -> 7-11).
- Hit 1 0x0 hitbox size slightly increased (3u -> 3.5u).
- Hit 1 0x1 hitbox size slightly increased (3u -> 3.5u).
- Hit 1 0x2 hitbox size increased (5u -> 6.5u).
- Hit 2 duration increased (12 -> 12-16).
- Hit 2 0x0 hitbox size slightly increased (3u -> 3.5u).
- Hit 2 0x1 hitbox size slightly increased (3u -> 3.5u).
- Hit 2 0x2 hitbox size increased (5u -> 6.5u).
- Hit 3 duration increased (17 -> 17-21).
- Hit 3 0x0 hitbox size slightly increased (3u -> 3.5u).
- Hit 3 0x1 hitbox size slightly increased (3u -> 3.5u).
- Hit 3 0x2 hitbox size increased (5u -> 6.5u).
- Hit 4 duration increased (22 -> 22-26).
- Hit 4 0x0 hitbox size slightly increased (3u -> 4u).
- Hit 4 0x1 hitbox size slightly increased (3u -> 4u).
- Hit 4 0x2 hitbox size increased (7u -> 8u).
- Landing lag slightly decreased (12 frames -> 10 frames).
- Autocancel window altered (1-2, 44> -> 1-2, 32>).

Forward Aerial (Mario Bros)
- Clean hit damage increased (11.5% -> 15%).
- Clean hit knockback decreased (86 growth -> 80 growth).
- Clean hit hitbox size slightly increased (5.5u -> 6u).
- Late hit damage increased (6% -> 7%).
- Late hit duration increased (12-25 -> 12-32).
- Late hit hitbox size slightly increased (4u -> 5u).
- Landing lag slightly increased (15 frames -> 16 frames).

Back Aerial (Turtle Bridge)
- Number of loop hits (3 -> 4).
- Final hit damage increased (3% -> 4%)
- Final hit knockback decreased (30 base -> 20 base).
- Landing hit duration slightly increased (1-2 -> 1-3).
- Landing hit hitbox size increased (4u -> 5u).
- Landing hit IASA decreased (16 -> 12 FAF).
- Landing lag decreased (19 frames -> 12 frames).

Up Aerial (Spitball Sparky)
- Hit 1 knockback decreased (20 base/60 growth -> 60 base/0 growth).
- Hit 1 0x0 hitbox size increased (6.5u -> 7.5u).
- Hit 1 0x1 hitbox size increased (4.3u -> 5.3u).
- Hit 2 0x0 hitbox size increased (6.5u -> 8u).
- Hit 2 0x1 hitbox size increased (4.3u -> 5.8u).
- Landing lag slightly decreased (12 frames -> 9 frames).

Down Aerial (Donkey Kong Jr)
- Early hit (Spike Hitbox) hitbox size slightly increased (4u -> 4.5u).
- Early hit duration slightly increased (12-13 -> 12-14).
- Early hit damage increased (11% -> 14%).
- Early hit knockback compensated (106 growth -> 87 growth).
- Late hitbox size and position altered "Size=4.000000, X=0.000000, Y=-8.000000, -0.600000 -> Size=5.500000, X=0.000000, Y=-7.500000, -0.600000".
- Late hit damage increased (11% -> 13%).
- Landing hit damage increased (3.5% -> 4%).
- Landing lag decreased (28 frames -> 20 frames).

Pummel (Bell)
- IASA decreased (31 -> 27 FAF).

Forward Throw (Ball)
- Angle decreased (58 -> 30 degrees).
- Knockback altered (100 base/40 growth -> 20 base/100 growth).

Back Throw (Ball)
- Angle decreased (58 -> 30 degrees).
- Knockback altered (100 base/40 growth -> 20 base/100 growth).

Up Throw (Ball)
- Damage increased (8% -> 10%).
- Knockback altered (100 base/40 growth -> 82 base/70 growth).

Ledge Attack
- Intangibility window altered (1-21 -> 1-18).
- Hitbox startup decreased (24-26 -> 21-23).
- IASA reduced (56 -> 48 FAF).

Neutral Special (Chef)
- Pan hitbox duration increased (18-20 -> 18-23).
- Pan hitbox damage and knockback increased (5% -> 6%, 30 growth -> 95 growth).
- Something to make Sliding Chef easier to pull off and more consistently. I dunno how Sliding Chef works at all yet, so this is kind of a place holder.

Side Special (Judge)
- Judge 2 trip chance increased (20% -> 100%) with the flower effect added.
- Judge 3 shield damage heavily increased (25 -> 40) with the confusion effect added.
- Judge 4 damage, knockback, and angle altered (8% -> 13%, 50 base/40 growth -> 66 base/66 growth, 40 -> 270 degrees) with the darkness effect added.
- Judge 5 0x0 hitbox loop hits have an altered angle, adjusted knockback, and a reduced SDI multiplier (75 -> 367 degrees, 40 base/0 WBKB/80 growth -> 0 base/40 WBKB/100 growth, x1.0 -> x0.2).
- Judge 5 0x1 hitbox loop hits have adjusted knockback and a reduced SDI multiplier (40 base/0 WBKB/80 growth -> 0 base/40 WBKB/100 growth, x1.0 -> x0.2).
- Judge 5 finishing hit added. Hit data "Hitbox(ID=0x2, Part=0x1, Bone=0x18, Damage=3, Angle=0x32 (50 degrees), KBG=0x9B (155), FKB=0x0, BKB=0x48 (72), Size=8, Z=0, Y=6, X=0, Effect=0x3 (Electric), Trip=0, Hitlag=1.2, SDI=1, Clang=0x1, Unknown=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, SFXType=0x2, Ground/Air=0x1, Direct/Indirect=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9)

Hitbox (Handle Hitbox) (ID=0x3, Part=0x1, Bone=0x18, Damage=3, Angle=0x32 (50 degrees), KBG=0x9B (155), FKB=0x0, BKB=0x48 (72), Size=3, Z=0, Y=1.2, X=0, Effect=0x3 (Electric), Trip=0, Hitlag=1.2, SDI=1, Clang=0x1, Unknown=0x1, ShieldDamage=0x0, SFXType=0x2, Ground/Air=0x1, Direct/Indirect=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9)

Synchronous_Timer(Frames=3) (Hitbox lasts three frames)"
- Judge 6 damage increased (12% -> 16%).
- Judge 6 knockback decreased (80 growth -> 75 growth).
- Judge 7 knockback drastically increased (30 base/50 growth -> 26 base/88 growth) and automatically heals G&W by 13% automatically along with dropping an apple.
- Judge 8 damage increase (9% -> 12%).
- Judge 9 0x0 hitbox adjusted to match the other numbers "Size=4.000000, X=0.000000, Y=5.200000, Z=0.000000 -> Size=6.000000, X=0.000000, Y=6.000000, Z=0.000000".

Up Special (Fire)
- New early hitbox added from frames 5-7.
- Early hit basic hitbox data "Id=0x0, Bone?=0x0, unk?=0x0, Damage=8.000000, Angle=0x169 (361), BKB (KBG)=0x5F (95), WKB?=0x0, KBG (BKB)=0x3c (60), Size=7.500000, X=0.000000, Y=3.200000, 0.000000".
- Normal hit duration increased (9-29 -> 8-34).
- Normal hit hitbox size increased (5.5u -> 6.5u).
- Intangibility window increased (5-13 -> 5-24).

Down Special (Oil Panic)
- IASA when holding Bucket and/or after filling the bucket (but not all the way) reduced (50 -> 40 FAF).

But because of how characters in this unofficial balancing commitie has buffed low and bottom tier characters a lot less than the 1.1.7 patch mod thing has, the G&W above is a little overtuned, so I guess you can stay tuned for a smaller list that doesn't buff him as much.

I will say though, after modding the changes above to G&W in Smash 4, he feels so much better now. He feels like a proper glass cannon.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Furret didn't say anything about nerfing or wanting to nerf Diddy, what your saying is only true of the poll, but even if everyone except yourself did want Diddy nerfed, I don't really understand why a majority wanting X character nerfed is something to be ashamed of?

Anyways, I view Luigi as a pretty viable character, bottom of high tier, I think he could use some slight buffs, but he really doesn't need much at all.

Here's Luigi's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Ms_LJHSOUX_Uo-0LPUb7awUTJM23tXbCtO3WvgSVwxI/viewanalytics
Here's Mr. Game and Watch's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/eJL8PR8H3y8AaumD2


You may vote for any of these people who wish they had a victory theme as cool as this.

It was a joke

Anyway, Game and Watch should defitenly be buffed, although idk exactatly where since I don't use the character. I guess in KO Power?

I vote for

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I did make some changes to Mr. Game & Watch's mobility attributes, but they're pretty minor buffs, now being tied with Lucario in the run speed department, and being tied with Mario, Donkey Kong, and Sonic in the air speed department; I raised Mr. Game & Watch's run speed to 1.55, and his air speed to 1.15.

While I can't really say much on how to make Mr. Game & Watch better, I will say that some of his attacks need to be worked on, such as Fire Attack (f-smash).

I want to vote for Palutena, as I recently made some adjustments to some of her attacks.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I feel like has a lot of potential, and yet still requires some buffs to escape from lower mid tier:

+ Increase hitbox duration of F-tilt.
+ Reduce end lag on U-tilt.
+ Remove sourspot on F-smash. It's already laggy enough without it, it just adds insult to injury.
+ Make sourspot on D-smash more powerful.
+ Make F-throw and B-throw semi-kill throws, mainly by changing high BKB and low KBG to the other way around.
+ Decrease end lag and landing lag of all aerials.
+ Make F-air more powerful.
+ Make U-air hit 1 reliably connect to hit 2.
+ Make D-air's spike hitbox last a couple frames longer.
+ Decrease overall lag of Chef.
• Rebalance Oil Panic: Decrease end lag of filling animations, increase startup of oil attack.


Voting .

 

[Furret24]

+ Remove sourspots on F- and D-smash. They're already laggy enough without them, sourspots just add insult to injury.

Please don't remove the sourspot of down smash. The semispike angle is great, just make it stronger.

 

[Zerp]

BlablablaI'minarushtodosomethingsblablabla.

Here's Mr. Game and Watch's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1EF-IPpvvRYRyVYPYluhGILh1kDc9DtMuCWukyeFeT_g/viewanalytics
Here's Palutena's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/CYsl22grOP4JsIvv2

You may vote for any of these things.
Edit: I somehow managed to unironically mistake her name for "Paletuna", lol.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Palutena definitely needed adjustments to some of her attacks, and I actually took some time to do just that.

Attribute edits first...

Palutena
-Walk Speed: 1.21 -> 1.23
-Run Speed: 1.888 -> 1.9
-Air Speed: 0.91 -> 1.14
-Weight: 91 -> 95

Next up are the attack changes...

Spoiler

2D: [ThrowHi]
Script:{
Throw_Specifier(ID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=10, Angle=0x5C, KBG=0x3C, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x5A, Effect?=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, SFX?=0x0, airground=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Type?=0x8)
Throw_Specifier(ID=0x1, Bone=0x0, Damage=3, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x64, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x3C, Effect?=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, SFX?=0x0, airground=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Type?=0x8)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=17)
Throw_Applier(ID=0x0, Bone=0x1A, Unknown=0x11000005, Unknown=0x11000006, Unknown=0x11000007)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Script_End()
}

2F: [SpecialAirHi3]
Script:{
Synchronous_Timer(Frames=1)
Extended_Hitbox(Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=10, Unknown=0x10E, Unknown=0x64, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x10, Unknown=7, Unknown=0, Unknown=-3, Unknown=0, Unknown=0x5, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0xB, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xC, Unknown=0, Unknown=-3, Unknown=0)
Extended_Hitbox(Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=10, Unknown=0x42, Unknown=0x61, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x48, Unknown=10, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=2, Unknown=0x5, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0xB, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xC, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=-2)
Synchronous_Timer(Frames=2)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Script_End()
}

30: [SpecialS2]
Script:{
Set_Frame_Duration(Speed=0.7)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=3)
Special_Hitbox(ID=0x0, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=13, Angle=0x22, KBG=0x60, FKB=0x0, BKB=0x37, Size=5.2, Z=0, Y=7.5, X=2.5, Effect=0x0, Trip=0, Hitlag=1.3, SDI=1, Clang=0x0, Unknown=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x0, SFXType=0x2, Ground/Air=0x2, Direct/Indirect=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0)
unk_E634F701(unknown=0x0)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=4)
Set_bit(Unknown=0x2100000E)
Synchronous_Timer(Frames=27)
Set_bit(Unknown=0x2100000F)
Script_End()
}

43: [AttackAirF]
Script:{
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=4)
Set_bit(Unknown=0x2100000D)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=9)
Extended_Hitbox(Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=10, Unknown=0x2D, Unknown=0x5C, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x28, Unknown=5.5, Unknown=0, Unknown=6.9, Unknown=9, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x10, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x6, Unknown=0, Unknown=6.9, Unknown=15)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=12)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=24)
Clear_bit(Unknown=0x2100000D)
Script_End()
}

45: [AttackAirB]
Script:{
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=3)
Set_bit(Unknown=0x2100000D)
Set_Bone_Intangability(Bone=0x13, Mode=0x1)
Set_Bone_Intangability(Bone=0x15, Mode=0x1)
Set_Bone_Intangability(Bone=0xF, Mode=0x1)
Set_Bone_Intangability(Bone=0x16, Mode=0x1)
Set_Bone_Intangability(Bone=0x10, Mode=0x1)
Set_Bone_Intangability(Bone=0xC, Mode=0x1)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=8)
Special_Hitbox(ID=0x0, Part=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=12, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x5C, FKB=0x0, BKB=0x24, Size=7, Z=0, Y=10.2, X=-14, Effect=0x0, Trip=0, Hitlag=1.2, SDI=1, Clang=0x1, Unknown=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x3, SFXType=0x2, Ground/Air=0x2, Direct/Indirect=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x4, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=9, Unknown=0x169, Unknown=0x5C, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1E, Unknown=3, Unknown=0, Unknown=10.2, Unknown=-11, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x4, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=10.2, Unknown=-9)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=11)
unk_CEDC237E(Unknown=0x0)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=35)
Clear_bit(Unknown=0x2100000D)
Script_End()
}

50: [AttackS3]
Script:{
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=17)
Special_Hitbox(ID=0x0, Part=0x0, Bone=0x3E8, Damage=6, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x64, FKB=0x0, BKB=0x50, Size=4.1, Z=0, Y=5.5, X=0, Effect=0x0, Trip=0, Hitlag=1, SDI=1, Clang=0x1, Unknown=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXType=0x1, Ground/Air=0x2, Direct/Indirect=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0)
Special_Hitbox(ID=0x1, Part=0x0, Bone=0x3E8, Damage=4, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x64, FKB=0x0, BKB=0x50, Size=2.8, Z=0, Y=-5.5, X=0, Effect=0x0, Trip=0, Hitlag=1, SDI=1, Clang=0x1, Unknown=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXType=0x1, Ground/Air=0x2, Direct/Indirect=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=25)
Special_Hitbox(ID=0x0, Part=0x1, Bone=0x3E8, Damage=6, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x80, FKB=0x0, BKB=0x50, Size=4.1, Z=0, Y=5.5, X=0, Effect=0x0, Trip=0, Hitlag=1, SDI=1, Clang=0x1, Unknown=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXType=0x1, Ground/Air=0x2, Direct/Indirect=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0)
Special_Hitbox(ID=0x1, Part=0x1, Bone=0x3E8, Damage=4, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x80, FKB=0x0, BKB=0x50, Size=2.8, Z=0, Y=-5.5, X=0, Effect=0x0, Trip=0, Hitlag=1, SDI=1, Clang=0x1, Unknown=0x0, ShieldDamage=0x1, SFXType=0x1, Ground/Air=0x2, Direct/Indirect=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=40)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Script_End()
}

5F: [SpecialHi3]
Script:{
Synchronous_Timer(Frames=1)
Extended_Hitbox(Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=12, Unknown=0x36, Unknown=0x64, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x48, Unknown=12, Unknown=0, Unknown=4, Unknown=2.8, Unknown=0x5, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0xB, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xC, Unknown=0, Unknown=4, Unknown=-2)
Synchronous_Timer(Frames=2)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Script_End()
}

6B: [ACA0F21E]
Script:{
WHOLE_HIT(Unknown=0x1)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=5)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=10, Unknown=0x169, Unknown=0x64, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x30, Unknown=7, Unknown=0, Unknown=10.5, Unknown=13, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=1.5, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=10.5, Unknown=14.5)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=10, Unknown=0x169, Unknown=0x60, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x30, Unknown=9, Unknown=0, Unknown=10.5, Unknown=9, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=1.5, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=10.5, Unknown=20)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=7)
WHOLE_HIT(Unknown=0x0)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=8)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Script_End()
}

80: [ThrowB]
Script:{
Throw_Specifier(ID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=11, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x46, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x41, Effect?=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, SFX?=0x0, airground=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Type?=0x8)
Throw_Specifier(ID=0x1, Bone=0x0, Damage=3, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x64, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x3C, Effect?=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, SFX?=0x0, airground=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Type?=0x8)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=20)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
REVERSE_LR()
Throw_Applier(ID=0x0, Bone=0x1A, Unknown=0x11000005, Unknown=0x11000006, Unknown=0x11000007)
Script_End()
}

84: [ThrowF]
Script:{
Throw_Specifier(ID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=10, Angle=0x2D, KBG=0x1E, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x5A, Effect?=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, SFX?=0x0, airground=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Type?=0x8)
Throw_Specifier(ID=0x1, Bone=0x0, Damage=3, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x64, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x3C, Effect?=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, SFX?=0x0, airground=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Type?=0x8)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=20)
Throw_Applier(ID=0x0, Bone=0x1A, Unknown=0x11000005, Unknown=0x11000006, Unknown=0x11000007)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Script_End()
}

8A: [ThrowLw]
Script:{
Throw_Specifier(ID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=7, Angle=0x46, KBG=0x19, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x5A, Effect?=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, SFX?=0x0, airground=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Type?=0x8)
Throw_Specifier(ID=0x1, Bone=0x0, Damage=3, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x64, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x3C, Effect?=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, SFX?=0x0, airground=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Type?=0x8)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=25)
Throw_Applier(ID=0x0, Bone=0x1A, Unknown=0x11000005, Unknown=0x11000006, Unknown=0x11000007)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Script_End()
}

8F: [AttackAirLw]
Script:{
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=3)
Set_bit(Unknown=0x2100000D)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=10)
Extended_Hitbox(Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=10, Unknown=0x10E, Unknown=0x64, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x14, Unknown=4, Unknown=0, Unknown=-3.7, Unknown=0.5, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=1.5, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x10, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x6, Unknown=0, Unknown=-5.2, Unknown=0.5)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=10, Unknown=0x37, Unknown=0x64, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1E, Unknown=6.3, Unknown=0, Unknown=-5, Unknown=1.5, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=1.5, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x10, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x6, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x4, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=-5, Unknown=-0.5)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=11)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=48)
Clear_bit(Unknown=0x2100000D)
Script_End()
}

9B: [AttackLw3]
Script:{
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=14)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3E8, Unknown=10, Unknown=0x169, Unknown=0x64, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x28, Unknown=2.7, Unknown=0, Unknown=8, Unknown=0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=-7, Unknown=0)
Extended_Special_Hitbox(Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3E8, Unknown=5, Unknown=0x46, Unknown=0x64, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x26, Unknown=2.1, Unknown=0, Unknown=3, Unknown=0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=1, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x9, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0, Unknown=-2, Unknown=0)
Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=25)
Remove_All_Hitboxes()
Script_End()
}

I basically modified the damage, knockback growth, and base knockback values for some of Palutena's attacks. I originally modified the smash attacks as well, but the changes turned out to be too powerful, so I scrapped them altogether.

Anyway, the biggest changes that I've made are for Palutena's f-tilt and Counter.

F-tilt's knockback is much stronger than before, compensating for the 17 frame start-up lag. It still deals up to 6% damage so that if it ever hits anyone more than once (which is almost impossible now, unless you're a big target like Bowser), you'd only be able to deal up to 12% damage. Also, f-tilt's knockback is now better than that of d-tilt, despite the fact that d-tilt deals more damage, and the knockback angle is set to 0x169 for all of f-tilt's hitboxes now.

Counter has also received a big knockback buff, now rivaling that of Ike's Counter. As such, the buff makes Palutena's Counter much better than it ever was before, but one could argue that it's now too powerful if Palutena blocks any highly damaging attacks. But considering that fighters like Ike, Roy, and Corrin have Counters that can be quite strong, the knockback buff for Palutena's Counter feels very justified.

On a side note, if anyone thinks that Palutena's u-throw is too powerful now, it still KOs things later than Mewtwo's u-throw, as I've done some comparisons between the two throws. Amusingly, when I tested Palutena's u-throw buff on the attribute changes that I gave to certain fighters, I noticed that Sheik got KO'd sooner than Mewtwo; Sheik got KO'd when her current damage was set to around 133%, but Mewtwo didn't get KO'd by Palutena's u-throw until its current damage reached 145%.

 

[ElectroLightning]

Shouldn't her Up Smash work like Mega Man's Forward Smash? The more you charge, the higher it goes.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

has recently proven her spot as a competitor worth respecting, in my opinion a lower mid tier. However, she could still use with some big buffs:

+ Slightly increase all movement speeds.
+ Increase knockback on F-tilt.
+ Decrease end lag on U-tilt.
+ Decrease overall lag on all smashes.
+ Increase knockback on U- or B-throw.
+ Decrease end lag on N- and D-air.
+ Make Autoreticle stay locked onto its target.
+ Increase knockback of Counter.


Voting .

 

[Frihetsanka]

I kind of wish "Low-mid tier" and "High-mid tier" were options. I voted "Mid tier" since I think Palutena is at the low end of mid tier.

 

[Zerp]

I kind of wish "Low-mid tier" and "High-mid tier" were options. I voted "Mid tier" since I think Palutena is at the low end of mid tier.

I thought about that at the beginning and I ended up deciding to go with keeping it as simple as possible, but, honestly I feel like that might have been a mistake. It is kind of hard to tell what to vote for sometimes when you think a character is high-mid or anything that's border-line between tiers. I think I'll hold a vote for next round about it and if enough people vote in favor of it I'll add more tiers.

Anyway, I don't have anything to say about Palutena that would add anything to the discussion so here's Palutena's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PkFwZCIEfnte9oRscIvnrAWA0Xk9hobc-9x0yZittME/viewanalytics
And here's Wii Fit Trainer's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/MGGoxVGizG8M0o5C3

You may vote for any of these people who for the most part are pretty in shape.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

can certainly do a lot of stuff as John Numbers and several others have shown. She even has a recently discovered footstool jab lock combo that does a lot of damage. However, she's still sitting in lower mid tier, and could use with several buffs:

+ Increase air speed (0.97 --> 1).
+ Decrease knockback and lower angle of first two hits of jab (KBG 100,100 --> 50,50 // angle 80/70,45/70 --> 60/50,25/50) so jab 3 buries more often.
+ Increase knockback of jab 3 (BKB 30 --> 60) so it's better when it doesn't bury.
+ Increase angle of dash attack (65 --> 75) so it can set up more stuff and kill off the top earlier.
+ Decrease overall lag of smash attacks.
--> F-smash: active frames 16-19 --> 14-17 // FAF 62 --> 58
--> U-smash: active frames 14-15,16-22 (intangible 12-15) --> 12-13,14-20 (intangible 10-13) // FAF 58 --> 56
--> D-smash: active frames 18-21 --> 15-16 // FAF 57 --> 54
+ Decrease damage of U-throw (11 --> 8) and slightly increase its knockback (KBG 80 --> 90) so it's a more reliable combo throw.
+ Decrease startup of D-air (active frames 20-21,22-24 --> 17-18,19-21 // FAF 45 --> 42), and increase size of its sweetspot.


Voting .

 

[ElectroLightning]

I honestly don't know. I've never actually played against a Wii Fit Trainer player.

Voting .

 

[Zerp]

Here's Wii Fit Trainer's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1CL...DnbXzzXetxfeoaeg/viewanalytics#start=openform
Charizard's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/nJhHxLqaY4bEMmA63

You may vote for any of these people who are without a single doubt not Charizard.