The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[L1N3R1D3R]

I feel like is a mid-low tier character that could excel greatly if she had a few buffs:

+ Speed up hit 2 of jab so the combo connects.
+ Decrease end lag of F-tilt and U-tilt.
+ Increase knockback of D-smash.
+ (optional) Make Charge Shot a bit more powerful.
+ Make Bomb Jumping more effective.


Voting for .

 

[Zerp]

I think Samus could use some moderate buffs even though she's got quite a bunch before. I'm jealous.

Here's Samus's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M8F9kWI04QU43jvi6YGNjCq-JGvF_pgVvlE938tZBSU/viewanalytics
I like how whoever else it was that voted happened to vote everything exactly the same as I did.
And here's Link's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/QRnmlKI0qIgdE0GD2


You may vote for any of these people who are, in fact, NOT Zelda... well, except for Zelda, she actually is Zelda.
I'll vote for , because nobody ever seems to want to talk about him. Or play him. He's just kinda... there.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Lol, that was me who voted the same things.

Anyway, has a lot of strengths, in my opinion a solid mid tier with solid results mostly from Europe. However, he still could use for some buffs:

+ Slightly increase air speed (0.88 --> 0.91) and jump height.
+ Slightly decrease startup of Dash attack (20 --> 18) and F-tilt (15 --> 13). F-tilt mainly because it's outclassed by F-smash in power already, so it should be faster than F-smash instead of the same speed to compensate.
+ Increase KBG of U-throw (230 --> 255) to make it a more consistent kill throw. Why does Toon Link have a kill throw but not Link?
+ Decrease KBG of B-air (70 --> 55) so it's better for comboing at high percents.
+ Decrease startup of uncharged Hero's Bow (18 --> 16) and Gale Boomerang (27 --> 24).


Voting for not Toon Zelda, .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I only gave Link a minor run speed increase to 1.4, and not much else after that. Any buffs that Link needs is probably more attack related, which does include Spin Attack's travel distance.

 

[Arthur97]

As far as the Corrins, my preferred balance would be complete removal, outside of that I say nerf the kick move (I don't actually have them).

Guess I'll actually vote this time,

 

[MarioMeteor]

Like Lucario, Link needs all-around frame data buffs in order to be good. I don't know why Sakurai and his team seem to think that Link needs more power, he's plenty strong enough as is. I feel like he'd really appreciate a run speed buff, too.

Speaking of characters that can never seem to not suck, I vote Ganondorf.

I'll vote for , because nobody ever seems to want to talk about him. Or play him. He's just kinda... there.

Oh my God, Olimar is in this game?!

 

[flamer180]

Heres a crazy idea: Upgrade Jigglypuff

lol

 

[Zerp]

Oh my God, Olimar is in this game?!

I initially thought he was, but then I looked around and realized that "hey, if nobody's talking about him, there's got to be a reason"... Turns out he was just a mod I forgot to uninstall.

Anyways, for Link, I am massively jealous of his buffs so far, but I think he could use quite a bit more as a lower Mid Tier character, and he honestly deserves them as well.

Here's Link's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Zx7W7MqrTdNxc6o7s5PHQfTf8j0vZ3r98AksBoTtA0Y/viewanalytics
Toon Link's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/GC69OjnY0TmtV4YS2

You may vote for any of these people who would definitely make for an interesting party together. Also, despite being just a mod, you can vote for Olimar to help him pretend he's actually a character if you want to.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

On the other hand, has the perfect balance of frame data, power, and useful projectiles to be a fearful competitor and yet not a broken one. I could see him getting some tiny buffs, but he really doesn't need them, he's doing fine as is in upper high tier.

Voting .

 

[Arthur97]

While not really a buff, how does he not have a lobster alt?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think Toon Link is fine as is, but then I haven't played as him in a long time. (I think the last time I played as him was before the patch for Corrin and Bayonetta, or maybe even before Lucas and Ryu's patch.)

Also, despite being just a mod, you can vote for Olimar to help him pretend he's actually a character if you want to.

After all, we did pretend the cut veterans from Melee and Brawl were in the game once. (That along with Shaq and Cleffa)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I did increase Toon Link's air speed, but it's probably an insult to increase Toon Link's air mobility, while leaving Link's air mobility alone.

 

[Zerp]

BlablablaI'minarushI'll postmythoughtslater
Here's Toon Link's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MkT7FqXR4oPYe-18x6g6SDqMyFDD0-tUJBhpzw5uVv4/viewanalytics
Here's Zero Suit Samus's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/1Vx7aOFcMW63SpN23

You may vote for any of these people who probably don't remember Anthony

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I made no changes to Zero Suit Samus. Can't see much that needs adjustments for her anyway.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is almost a perfectly balanced top tier. However, she still can do some crazy shenanigans with one move that I think should be slightly nerfed:

-- Do something with Flip Kick. It has next to no lag, it's amazing for recovery, it has invincibility at the start, and to top it all off it has ridiculous power. I would slightly lower its movement speed and increase its end lag, but any nerfs to this move would be good.

Voting .

 

[MarioMeteor]

Nerf her. That's all I have to say.

Can we vote for Cleffa again?

 

[L9999]

I would nerf the power of Flip Jump. It is hard to challenge/stop it anyways so the ridiculous power won't be missed.

I vote

No one cares about Anthony because he never existed.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I would nerf the power of Flip Jump. It is hard to challenge/stop it anyways so the ridiculous power won't be missed.

It's not exactly fool-proof though, as I did see a CPU counter that attack without triggering its hitbox.

 

[flamer180]

I initially thought he was, but then I looked around and realized that "hey, if nobody's talking about him, there's got to be a reason"... Turns out he was just a mod I forgot to uninstall.

Anyways, for Link, I am massively jealous of his buffs so far, but I think he could use quite a bit more as a lower Mid Tier character, and he honestly deserves them as well.

Here's Link's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Zx7W7MqrTdNxc6o7s5PHQfTf8j0vZ3r98AksBoTtA0Y/viewanalytics
Toon Link's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/GC69OjnY0TmtV4YS2

You may vote for any of these people who would definitely make for an interesting party together. Also, despite being just a mod, you can vote for Olimar to help him pretend he's actually a character if you want to.

Wait so are you saying Olimar isnt a character, but wii fit gagger is? lol

 

[Zerp]

If your wondering why this is so late, our router had a internet outage, still though, sorry for long that took.

Wait so are you saying Olimar isnt a character, but wii fit gagger is? lol

Wait, Wii Fit Trainer's in this game? That can't be right, I think that's just a rumor or something, there's no way she's actually in Smash.

Can we vote for Cleffa again?

Nah.

You can vote for Igglybuff instead though.

Anyways onto Zero Suit Samus, I personally don't think she needs any nerfs to be around Fox's level, then again I may be underrating her.
Here's Zero Suit Samus's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/18Z9erYos7FEtH9DguyEAiuI4gd1JmuA3pteR-aJgzMg/viewanalytics
Bowser Jr's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/4CipWXxguGYQkUJF2

You may vote for any of these strange specimens and the most viable and broken character in the game, Igglybuff!
I'll vote for my own personal worst nightmare, .

(For those of you wondering what happens if Igglybuff win, it's the same as last time a joke character won, we'll have a off day where we just discuss anything balance related.)
Edit: Thanks Wintermelon!

 

[Wintermelon43]

If your wondering why this is so late, our router had a internet outage, still though, sorry for long that took.


Wait, Wii Fit Trainer's in this game? That can't be right, I think that's just a rumor or something, there's no way she's actually in Smash.

Nah.

You can vote for Igglybuff instead though.

Anyways onto Zero Suit Samus, I personally don't think she needs any nerfs to be around Fox's level, then again I may be underrating her.
Here's Zero Suit Samus's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/18Z9erYos7FEtH9DguyEAiuI4gd1JmuA3pteR-aJgzMg/viewanalytics
Bowser Jr's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/4CipWXxguGYQkUJF2

You may vote for any of these strange specimens and the most viable and broken character in the game, Igglybuff!
I'll vote for my own personal worst nightmare, .

(For those of you wondering what happens if Igglybuff win, it's the same as last time a joke character won, we'll have a off day where we just discuss anything balance related.)

You forgot to remove Bowser Jr from the selectable characters

 

[Zerp]

You forgot to remove Bowser Jr from the selectable characters

Lol I forget to do that a bit more often than I'd like to admit to. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I love how even though Bowser Jr.'s received a plethora of buffs, he's still not much better than he was at launch. Something really needs to be done with him, because I sometimes forget this character exists.

Igglybuff is calling to me, but I'll vote for Dark Pit.

 

[L9999]

It's not exactly fool-proof though, as I did see a CPU counter that attack without triggering its hitbox.

CPU cheats though.

So, Bowser Jr. I would make Cannonball significantly less laggy, give Side B the ability to airdodge so it doesn't become super predictable fast, give Up B explosion-hammer combo more consistency, for the love of everything that is good give rapid jab better linking (you can go all the way and make it Bayo's rapid jab), give D-Tilt better linking, give Up Tilt hitbox on the front, give Nair hitboxes on the kart and make it autocancel, and at least one decent kill throw.

I vote Monado boy

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

has a lot of tools that can do scary stuff as Tweek and Jade have proven. However, he still has several flaws that keep him in lower mid tier.

+ Make jab combo connect reliably.
+ Make U-tilt hit in front of him.
+ Decrease end lag of D-smash. They did it for F- and U-smashes which already had less end lag, why not D-smash?
+ Increase angle and decrease knockback of D-throw so it combos better.
+ Increase knockback of F- and B-throws so they kill more easily.
+ **Greatly decrease knockback of landing D-air so it can combo at higher percents like Fox's.**
+ Significantly decrease lag of Clown Cannon **and Mechakoopa**.


Voting .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

No attribute changes for Bowser Jr. on my end. I would try to improve Clown Kart Dash by giving it super armor against weaker attacks though. I just don't get why Wario gets the super armor for his Wario Bike, but practically anything can stop Clown Kart Dash.

 

[Zerp]

BUFF THE CANNON!

Seriously that move is terrible, I think it needs some massive buffs to be remotely useful.

Here's Bowser Jr.'s results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1KJShRpAz7ria6Hk_vxQKanbLojUW1_9TcqIuScEC06Q/viewanalytics
Here's Shulk's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/2IHlZAGv9UIljkLN2


You may vote for any of these people who cannot wield the Monado's power, with the exception of Igglybuff who can in fact wield anything's power.
I'll vote for Ganondorf, bro-est of bros.

(If Igglybuff wins we'll have a off day where we just discuss anything balance related.)

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

PLEASE BUFF HIS DAMN FRAME DATA. His landing lag, autocancels, range, power, and attributes are all fine. Just make his attacks come out and end a tad bit more quickly (and make Back Slash worth using...), and he'll be a great character.

Voting .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

No attribute changes for Shulk, but his attacks do need less startup lag, especially the aerial attacks.

 

[Zerp]

I personally look at Shulk as a borderline low to mid tier character, I think he leans a bit more on the low side but it doesn't really change much. Anyway, I think what he needs the most is the same as what everyone always suggests about Shulk, improved frame data, it's just laughably bad.

Here's Shulk's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1yaSkKM_-j2WrWsgdqsjUp6YTLn7vGq62jGns-Gzhz6E/viewanalytics
Here's Ganondorf's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/pnkpLFvlvUR816MZ2

You may vote for any of these peons who could not ever claim to be the King of Evil or you could vote for the Emperor of Evil Igglybuff.

 

[Arthur97]

I personally look at Shulk as a borderline low to mid tier character, I think he leans a bit more on the low side but it doesn't really change much. Anyway, I think what he needs the most is the same as what everyone always suggests about Shulk, improved frame data, it's just laughably bad.

Here's Shulk's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1yaSkKM_-j2WrWsgdqsjUp6YTLn7vGq62jGns-Gzhz6E/viewanalytics
Here's Ganondorf's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/pnkpLFvlvUR816MZ2

You may vote for any of these peons who could not ever claim to be the King of Evil or you could vote for the Emperor of Evil Igglybuff.

Selling the Igglybuff thing kinda hard aren't you?

Generally I'm not sure his speed is so much the problem as his recovery. Maybe make flame choke not induce helplessness.

Voting . I'm curious as to what people's opinions are on her.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Make him faster and give him better frame data, but nerf his power to compensate. It's looking as if that's the only way he'll ever be good.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Improve movement speed. Honestly, just doing that would fix almost all his problems, as it would help his neutral and recovery, two of his three major weaknesses. Oh, and while we're at improving his neutral, decrease lag of dash grab.

+ Walk speed: 0.73 --> 0.8 (between Ryu and Wario)
+ Run speed: 1.218 --> 1.27 (tied with Villager)
+ Air speed: 0.79 --> 0.85 (between Olimar and Link/Diddy Kong)
+ Dash grab: active frames 11-12 --> 9-10 // FAF 45 --> 40


Voting .

 

[L9999]

Melee mobility, Falcon Kick restoring 2nd jump, a kill throw, better grab range, increasing Dark Dive's power drastically.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I honestly don't have a problem with Ganondorf's mobility, but I do think Wizard's Foot should restore the second jump like L9999 said (He called it Falcon Kick. I don't blame him, I had to look up the name of the move to get it right. I almost called it Warlock Kick). There was something about Flame Choke that someone wanted to change as well (It had to do with the opponent teching the move), but I'm not sure what it was, or if it was me that wanted the change, so I'll just leave it at that. Also, Dark Dive should actually be a dive...I'm kidding of course but it is funny that a "dive" attack brings you up, though it's not as ironic as Lloyd's Rising Falcon attack sending him down.

You can vote for Igglybuff instead though. !

Welp...Time to start making an Igglybuff moveset.

CPU cheats though.

Yeah...I love how they will perfect shield, spot dodge, or air dodge pretty much anything with inhuman reflexes, yet, they die to PK Flash from halfway across the screen, and use Clown Kart Dash to chase an opponent that is about to die off of the side blast zone, resulting in the death of the CPU Koopaling (I think it was Morton so I guess that explains it.)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ganondorf needs to be slow to balance out his high attack power; this includes his ground and air mobility. In terms of his recovery though, improving the travel distance of Dark Dive would be the best option.

In regards to Ganondorf's air speed, I can pretty much see why it's so weak, as his aerial attacks are quite lethal whenever they hit; I only raised Ganondorf's air speed to 0.8, which is very negligible in the long run.

 

[FamilyTeam]

As far as the Corrins, my preferred balance would be complete removal, outside of that I say nerf the kick move (I don't actually have them).

Guess I'll actually vote this time,

I know this post is a tad old, but
I see you hating Corrin all over the boards. What do you have against the character so much? I thought this kind of behaviour was frowned upon.

 

[Garo]

Things I'd most like to see done to Ganondorf:

- Make up throw a kill throw.
- Make grabs have less endlag and startup (at least in case of dash grab with the latter).
- Get rid of the down smash sourspot.
- Improve air speed a little bit.

Other things I'd like to see:

- Increase Dark Dive's knockback and speed up the ending animation on hit. Maybe change the knockback angle to be diagonally down, at least with aerial opponents.
- Make Dark Vault retain the horizontal momentum during the second jump. Increase knockback and damage a little.
- Give Warlock Thrust drastically less endlag.

Things I'm not sure about:

- Give forward air less startup.
- Increase Flame Choke's and it's customs travel speed.
- Make his shield bigger.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Speaking of Warlock Thrust, it's practically useless to even be using right now. Warlock Thrust KOs later, AND has more startup lag than almost all of Ganondorf's standard attacks; only u-tilt is slower, but it's way more rewarding when it does hit the target.

Really, Warlock Thrust is one of the worst custom special moves out there, with Spinphony being the worst of them all.

 

[Zerp]

Sorry for the breif notice but the update's going to be a bit late today. Expect it a hour or two from now. Sorry.