The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Example, you get caught by Kamui's rapid jab. If you mash the control stick diagonally up and you are capable to jump out after that mashing you SDIed correctly.

That reminds me. Is Corrin's rapid jab even useful? In my experience it is easily jumped out of.

 

[L9999]

That reminds me. Is Corrin's rapid jab even useful? In my experience it is easily jumped out of.

It only works if A) Your opponent doesn't expect it at low %s. B) Your opponent doesn't SDI C) He is a newbie that jumped right into it D) There is lag. Scrap the last one, after 1 day I can SDI out of Kamui's rapid jab every time even with tons of lag. For jumping out of it without SDI, you have to be right at the tip. Character with multiple jumps like Dark Pit don't care at all and will always escape (unless the player sucks).

 

[MarioMeteor]

Diddy's fine the way he is: not broken.

I'm going to keep voting Clefairy until it wins.

 

[Zerp]

Diddy Kong's results
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1XQ_zeGj4rMUKOYwbDbQxXqkH2KhVWC8LCYVedzYZz3Q/viewanalytics
Wario's poll--> http://goo.gl/forms/vmnGTVrx5e
Unfortunately you can't vote for Wario again, but you can vote for these guys.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Nothing to make Wario anymore annoying than he already is.

Don't worry, Clefairy, you'll win one day.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Some buffs, some nerfs, but the one thing that I don't like is how fighters can grab Wario while he's riding his bike. Also, the f-smash change may seem bad because it's slower than the Brawl f-smash, but having better attack range does make up for it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have some ideas not to buff Wario necessarily, but to help stop all the people griping about Wario's Moveset.

1. Make his Down Areal a ground pound
2. Pull his pummel animation from Wario Land: Shake It!
3. When Wario doesn't have acces to his bike, using his Side Special results in him doing his iconic shoulder bash. This move doesn't help with recovery like his bike does though.

Nothing to make Wario anymore annoying than he already is.

Don't worry, Clefairy, you'll win one day.

That's actually a Cleffa. This is Clefairy's sprite:

 

[MarioMeteor]

I have some ideas not to buff Wario necessarily, but to help stop all the people griping about Wario's Moveset.

1. Make his Down Areal a ground pound
2. Pull his pummel animation from Wario Land: Shake It!
3. When Wario doesn't have acces to his bike, using his Side Special results in him doing his iconic shoulder bash. This move doesn't help with recovery like his bike does though.

That's actually a Cleffa. This is Clefairy's sprite:

I thought that Clefairy looked awfully small...

 

[Wintermelon43]

I feel like Wario could use some slight buffs to his aierals, maybe some more throw combos. But he's still high tier.

I vote for

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Maybe a tiny bit of buffs to his F-smash and throws, but nothing much.

Voting .

 

[L9999]

Throws and some un-nerfing. Wario is going down the drain for a reason. And no, it's not Cloud, he just cemented it. Wario is not high tier people, he is on the disappointing section of mid tier and that' why no one plays him.

 

[Zerp]

Man, I want to talk about Wario so bad but I'm in a bit of a rush, so I can't, lol.
Here's his results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1XZ-x-YoW7NqVsuus9MtxXPBFtfMXexceftC1-0AuXhw/viewanalytics
And here's R.O.B.'s poll http://goo.gl/forms/AX9AtZpmiI
Vote--><--Vote

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

R.O.B. is a bit of an odd fellow with his different chargeable moves. I will say though, that his side special needs less start-up lag, because even though it can reflect projectiles, until those start-up frames have finished, you can't reflect anything.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Already a solid high-mid character, what with his endless wall of lasers and spinning disks, and not to mention the 833P-800P.

I'll give Cleffa a break this time and vote for Zero Sk- Zero Suit Samus so I can rant angrily about her.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Side B and N-Air need a bit of starting lag cut off, but otherwise he's in great condition.

Voting .

 

[Wintermelon43]

Rob shoudn't be changed

I vote for :The salt awakens

 

[L9999]

I'll vote for the one and only invalidater of super heavies and the bane of R.O.B.'s existence.

 

[Zerp]

I apologize for the ten minute delay.
Here's Zero Suit Samus's poll http://goo.gl/forms/K6wUuweq86
and here's R.O.B's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1pIukqfl8JbKI5hkRJyJwXmyex56LX9CxBa6-gYnlLXo/viewanalytics

Vote--><--Vote
Edit: I'm voting

 

[Wintermelon43]

I think ZSS will fall out of #2 really soon, and Kirby goes even with her, so..... no changes

 

[Green Zelda]

This convinced me that ZSS needs no changes.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

She can still do some ridiculous stuff, guys. Up air and down B are still amazing and perhaps too good based on how you look at it.

Voting .

 

[Wintermelon43]

Oh, I forgot, I vote for

 

[MarioMeteor]

Nerf her



NERF HER


NERF HER!


This is obviously my opinion, but I find Zero Skill Spamus to be even more annoying than Sheik, and that's saying something. She causes me unhealthy amounts of salt, she really does.

First of all, weaken the knockback of Boost Kick, because that move is still gross. Then, give all of her aerials (except for down air) more landing lag, and make Flip Jump's kick weaker. Up air should have lower scaling, too. I suppose in return they could make her grab faster, since getting grabbed would no longer mean a death sentence.

Now, voting for Cleffa.

 

[Green Zelda]

Voting for top tier !

 

[FamilyTeam]

I think they need to repurpose her Down B entirely. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to nerf her to to ground, but that thing honestly does a pretty good job at reliably pissing me off.
I probably shouldn't be saying anything about balance since I'm clean from Smash for weeks and I haven't fought a single ZSS in months because of it, but this is my (probably flawed) opinion anyway:
It should jump probably half the distance it does now, they should cut the knockback both in the spike and non-spike hit in half, and it should leave her helpess if she doesn't hit anyone.
Why do I get the feeling this nerf alone probably would make her drop to low-High tier?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I feel that considering her current dominance, Zero Suit Samus's weight needs to be nerfed a bit further than just down to 80. In fact, she definitely needs to be lighter than Rosalina at this point in time.

 

[Zerp]

I feel like Zero Suit Samus definitely warrants nerfs, but I'm not actually sure how to nerf her fairly.

Anyways, today's winner is Cleffa!.. Huh? Why are you looking at me like that? Don't tell me you guys haven't unlocked her yet...

Here's Zero Suit Samus's results
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1XoChDZie92zqtM4WsnTe7vZ6KY7Oo6vKmtvsFpjKnD4/viewanalytics

And here's Cleffa's poll ---> http://goo.gl/forms/1iSM7Fvjgn
Seriously though, I think we all know by now how OP Cleffa is, her jab's ridiculous, her Back Throw is insane and that Dash attack of hers is probably the worst balance decision in the entire game, who thought a dash attack that kills at 50% on BOWSER and has INFINITE PRIORITY was okay?
Nerf !

You can vote for these dweebs


(If your lost, yes, this is a joke day, just talk about whoever and whatever balance related thing you want to today)

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Cleffa needs a Mega Evolution

 

[Eugene Wang]

If I had to choose a global mechanic to change, I would make shieldstun dependent on shield damage rather than base damage. Such a change would instantly make Pound and Shieldbreaker a lot more useful for their intended function of dealing with shields.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Cleffa's forward tilt's damage should be increased from 30% to 32%.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Can we talk about counters for a bit? Counters are not very fun in general, and discourage taking risks and reads.

So the biggest offender here is certainly Bayonetta's counter. I will admit that Bayonetta's counter is pretty cool with it's effect, slowing people down and all that, but with how little end lag it has, combined with Bat Within in case you mess up, it is one of the most broken moves in this game! Think about how long Marth or Shulk are left vulnerable after their counter, compared to Bayonetta who not only has little end lag, but also rolls back while countering to avoid any strong punish. Heck even a weak punish is difficult to get! Also, the Bayonetta community is still working on optimizing witch time punishes, and I think it is fair to say that with an optimal punish, getting caught in witch time can lead to death at any percent! That is ridiculous!

The other problem counter is Corrin's counter. This move kills WAY too early, and there is no real justification for why it does. Even Shulk, who's counter is a critical part of his character design and his ability to see the future is his signiture ability, has a far inferior counter to Corrin. Because of the disgusting power of Corrin's counter, you can't throw out any strong attacks without knowing that Corrin will not be able to counter in time, and that is a very short window of time. Edgeguarding? In range for a F-air? Well you can't just throw it out because if you get countered you lose the game! So you have to wait for Corrin to do something first. If she does nothing, she basically gets to recover for free if you don't want to risk the game.

This is why I think that counters are anti-fun tools. Taking risks is fun, making reads is fun, going for style and edgeguards is fun. Counters punish all of those and are generally very boring, straightforward moves. More than just Bayo and Corrin, all counters are pretty annoying and can make you think twice before taking that opportunity to go for glory.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I think they did a fairly good job at balancing Counters. Marth's is easier to land, but isn't as strong, Roy's is harder time, but the reward is greater, and the rest fall in between.

Witch Time, I feel is, while on the shady part of the line, not broken. Why? Becauseit has weaknesses that no other Counter has: #1: Witch Timing an attack will not ensure a KO in the same situation that a Counter would. So, for example, Roy Countering Ike's forward smash is pretty much a guaranteed death, whereas Witch Timing one is not. #2: Lingering hitbox + Witch Time = Doom.

No, the only problem I see with them is Counter Surge, that **** is too strong.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I think they did a fairly good job at balancing Counters. Marth's is easier to land, but isn't as strong, Roy's is harder time, but the reward is greater, and the rest fall in between.

Witch Time, I feel is, while on the shady part of the line, not broken. Why? Becauseit has weaknesses that no other Counter has: #1: Witch Timing an attack will not ensure a KO in the same situation that a Counter would. So, for example, Roy Countering Ike's forward smash is pretty much a guaranteed death, whereas Witch Timing one is not. #2: Lingering hitbox + Witch Time = Doom.

No, the only problem I see with them is Counter Surge, that **** is too strong.

Except that Witch Time can make setting up for a down smash or a combo really easy, both of which can kill really early.

My main problem is that even after the nerfs, shields are still too strong. They should have even more stun and slower regeneration to make up for how safe they still are in most cases. Also perfect shielding should significantly reduce but not negate shield wear.

(Oh, and obviously 's up smash should be frame 1 and kill as early as reverse Warlock Punch. How could I forget?)

 

[MarioMeteor]

Except that Witch Time can make setting up for a down smash or a combo really easy, both of which can kill really early.

My main problem is that even after the nerfs, shields are still too strong. They should have even more stun and slower regeneration to make up for how safe they still are in most cases. Also perfect shielding should significantly reduce but not negate shield wear.

(Oh, and obviously 's up smash should be frame 1 and kill as early as reverse Warlock Punch. How could I forget?)

Do you just want the game to have no defensive options? If shields get reduced regeneration, R.I.P in pieces to Jigglypuff.

As for Witch Time, she'll only have time to push you towards the edge or initiate a full combo if you're at high percents, at which point you should be making an active attempt not to get Witch Timed.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If you really want to weaken the shields, just give fighters the Shield Degenerator bonus effect, and that will slow down the shield's recovery time. Then again, negative bonus effects do offer stronger stat boosts, which makes rebalancing your fighter's stats rather difficult.

 

[MarioMeteor]

In terms of balance changes that aren't character-specific: Rage. That **** has to go. I swear this would be an infinitely better game if Rage didn't exist.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

What is so bad about rage? Yes, it makes it so that sometimes even true combos can be escaped from, but I feel like it is a good mechanic. However this is coming from someone who mains and secondaries so yes I have some bias, but hear me out.

In the history of smash, heavies have always been bad. With the exception of Snake in brawl, no heavy character was ever very good at all, so I think that rage was the developers' attempt to help the heavies without simply further increasing their damage or weight, and I think it worked seeing how a good few heavies are viable in this game.

In addition, I don't like kill confirms and those kinds of things where you know that you are 100% dead if you get grabbed, or hit by a certain move. Now with rage, very little is ever 100% true, which both gives the defender hope and motivation to hang on and DI really well, as well as eliminating mindless options for the attacker, making them have to adapt to their rage and their opponent's DI, making the game much deeper and more demanding of the players.

And rage is also a great comeback mechanic, and who doesn't like the ability to come back in a game? I could be playing Charizard and be at 200%, while my opponent is only at 70%, and I know that I can't win by playing neutral and fighting for the advantage, so I wonder if I up throw onto a certain platform if I can straight up win, and make an amazing comeback, so I try it, and it just barely works! Or maybe I get a good F-smash read on my opponent when they are at 20%, and kill them extremely early! Rage can make for some really hype comebacks that never would have happened otherwise!

So I am curious, why do you think that rage is bad? I for one really like it!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In terms of balance changes that aren't character-specific: Rage. That **** has to go. I swear this would be an infinitely better game if Rage didn't exist.

Last I've checked, that is a situational mechanic that requires specific conditions to be met. And even then, you might not even be able to take advantage of the rage mechanic if your opponent easily outwits you.

 

[MarioMeteor]

What is so bad about rage? Yes, it makes it so that sometimes even true combos can be escaped from, but I feel like it is a good mechanic. However this is coming from someone who mains and secondaries so yes I have some bias, but hear me out.

In the history of smash, heavies have always been bad. With the exception of Snake in brawl, no heavy character was ever very good at all, so I think that rage was the developers' attempt to help the heavies without simply further increasing their damage or weight, and I think it worked seeing how a good few heavies are viable in this game.

In addition, I don't like kill confirms and those kinds of things where you know that you are 100% dead if you get grabbed, or hit by a certain move. Now with rage, very little is ever 100% true, which both gives the defender hope, and motivation to hang on, and DI really well, as well as eliminating mindless options for the attacker, making them have to adapt to their rage and their opponent's DI, making the game much deeper and more demanding of the players.

And rage is also a great comeback mechanic, and who doesn't like the ability to come back in a game? I could be playing Charizard and be at 200%, while my opponent is only at 70%, and I know that I can't win by playing neutral and fighting for the advantage, so I wonder if I up throw onto a certain platform if I can straight up win, and make an amazing comeback, so I try it, and it just barely works! Or maybe I get a good F-smash read on my opponent when they are at 20%, and kill them extremely early! Rage can make for some really hype comebacks that never would have happened otherwise!

So I am curious, why do you think that rage is bad? I for one really like it!

Of course you do, you main a heavyweight. It causes people to die far earlier than they should (coming from a Rosalina and Jigglypuff main) and it ruins combos (coming from someone who plays Falco). It makes for some annoying matches and unfair comebacks. It's understandable on Lucario, but even that's debatable.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lucario is supposed to be a high risk, high reward kind of fighter, as it's quite lethal at high damage, and that does not take into account rage either. But at the same time, that high damage means that taking even one big blow will easily get Lucario KO'd.