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The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

FamilyTeam

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I think Peach would be perfect and a solid High (or even Top) Tier if we made some of her aerials very slightly faster, made her heavier by 4 or 5 points and made her Air Speed better. You bet I'd main her with that.
 

Zerp

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I think Peach is perfect as is now, she's where I want all characters to be viability-wise.
Here's her results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1yNMxVAzeJUpAm5mrWGzcQ2BxQSYObC9xYPUpTNBeiMs/viewanalytics
Here's Bayonetta's pollhttp://goo.gl/forms/ioo7VDBVWD

We're getting pretty close to the end of our first round, yay! I think we'll do something else after this for a little while, and then when the time's right start off another round where every character eventually goes again.
Anyways, you can vote for any :4corrin: you wish for, Waluigi Corrin, Coral Corrin, Potato Corrin, everyone's legal to be voted for as long as their name is Corrin.
 

Green Zelda

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This probably isn't a great idea(at all), but I'll say it anyway:
What if they make bayonetta kinda the opposite of little mac?
Keep her above average recovery, keep her outstanding air combo game, but worsen her neutral (on the ground)?
It doesn't have to be aerial mac level bad, but they could make it among the worst in the game.
 

L1N3R1D3R

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They nerfed her a little bit, but her aerial combo game is still as ridiculous as it ever had been. Normal side B is fine, but downward side B should have a little more horizontal knockback so it can't combo into itself or up B at high enough percents (still normal side B and F-air), and up B should have a little bit more end lag so it can't combo into itself or F-air at high enough percents (still normal and potentially downward side B). This would maintain most of her combo game, but it would remove most of her death combos from ridiculously low percents, which most people are complaining about.

Voting for Waluigi Corrin.
 
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Muskrat Catcher

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Bayonetta is undoubtedly one of the best characters in the game, and is deserving of nerfs. I think that Bayonetta has way too many ways to start a very heavy combo. D-tilt, Heel Slide, Downwards After Burner Kick, U-tilt, F-air, and of course Witch Time. I am very glad that they added end lag to Witch Time, but it is still relatively safe compared to most counters, so I would advocate just a bit more end lag if missed. I also think that D-tilt should have just a few more frames of end lag, so that Bayo doesn't get devastating guaranteed combos out of it, and Downwards After Burner Kick (DABK) needs to have much more end lag when Bayo hits the ground. I would also remove the sliding she does out of it, make it more akin to the Falcon Kick, since after all DABK has much more reward for much less risk than the Falcon Kick. Also, Bayo shouldn't be able to use Witch twist right after her double jump, and save her double jump by doing so. Is that an intentional feature? Either way it makes her almost impossible to edge guard. The only other thing that bothers me is that the first hit of her F-air makes her gain height, so I would remove that feature, but keep in the ability to combo into Witch Twist from it. After these changes maybe Bayo would be more balanced.

Voting for Papa Corrin
 
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apparently fuz

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Honestly, Witch Time isn't even the worst thing about Bayonetta, it's dive kick and Witch Twist. Something needs to be done about those moves. I guess make Witch Twist come out around frame 10+ and remove the bounce on shield for dive kick to actually make it punishable? Grounded side-b needs some added FAF frames as well.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I say don't change Bayonetta but that's just me being biased because those kill combos are way too satisfying for me.

I feel like making a joke but I don't really have anything I haven't done before so I won't.

As a suggestion for the something else we could do, we could do characters that aren't in the game...yet. We could vote on a character to do, then make an entire moveset for them including each moves use, damage output, and other necessary things. This may be more on the side of "The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Character Creator Committee" as opposed to "The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee", but it's a cool idea and something fun to do while we wait for the metagame to sink in more.
 

MarioMeteor

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I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't see much wrong with Bayonetta. Her weaknesses are very profound and a lot of combos are avoided with good DI. If I had to nerf her, I would increase up air's knockback scaling and back air's ending and landing lag so that she has to work harder for her KOs. Other than that, I think she's fine.

I vote Corrin on the cob.
 
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Muskrat Catcher

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As a suggestion for the something else we could do, we could do characters that aren't in the game...yet. We could vote on a character to do, then make an entire moveset for them including each moves use, damage output, and other necessary things. This may be more on the side of "The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Character Creator Committee" as opposed to "The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee", but it's a cool idea and something fun to do while we wait for the metagame to sink in more.
This sounds very similar to the Make Your Move community here on SmashBoards. However your idea sounds a lot more focused on competitive balance, whereas Make Your Move is focused more on creativity. If you want to make movesets, I would check out that thread. The new contest starts in 2 days. But be warned: they will judge your set, as it is a competition, and they will nitpick it very hard!
 

Zerp

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This probably isn't a great idea(at all), but I'll say it anyway:
What if they make bayonetta kinda the opposite of little mac?
Keep her above average recovery, keep her outstanding air combo game, but worsen her neutral (on the ground)?
It doesn't have to be aerial mac level bad, but they could make it among the worst in the game.
That's pretty interesting actually, I'm not sure how well that'd work in practice, but a Bayonetta that stays mostly in the air does sound really interesting to watch, now I want to see what that would look like, lol.


As a suggestion for the something else we could do, we could do characters that aren't in the game...yet. We could vote on a character to do, then make an entire moveset for them including each moves use, damage output, and other necessary things. This may be more on the side of "The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Character Creator Committee" as opposed to "The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee", but it's a cool idea and something fun to do while we wait for the metagame to sink in more.
That's a pretty good idea, it sound's pretty fun, it is slightly off-topicish (I don't think that's a word), but I wouldn't mind at all having a few days or a week dedicated to the idea. :p I was actually thinking of having a poll tomorrow where everyone can vote on what they'd like to see/do next, I'll make sure to include that as a option tomorrow, it's really a good idea.


Okay, so about Bayonetta, personally, I feel that Bayonetta's very powerful, but I don't feel like I can really judge exactly how high she is yet, I think she's either Top Tier or very high-high tier (that sounds odd), but I'm not sure. Either way though, I think she's strong enough to warrant some nerfs, not sure how much I'd want her to recieve though.

Anyways, here's Bayonetta's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1x12a_3pjKzto2L87nYT6F1VlhoxtLLL9zJWUQ9lLQFU/viewanalytics
And here's Corrin's poll http://goo.gl/forms/X3NOEiSdCd

You can vote for absolutely nobody today :bee:

So, as you might be able to tell, Corrin's our last character, so, tomorrow we'll have a day where you can discuss mostly anything balance related, and more importantly, discuss what direction you'd like the thread to go after this, we're for sure doing another round of what we're about to finish today, but I think we should do something else for a while and eventually go back to it. I already have a few options for you guys to vote between tomorrow, but your welcome to nominate/suggest any concepts you want if you have any ideas of your own. :)
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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The one thing that I'll probably never understand is the speed nerfs that Corrin received. It's not like he's all that fast after all. In fact, the nerf to his air speed also nerfs his already mediocre recovery, which makes it a tad worse than it was before the 1.1.5 update.

If anything, Corrin would want an air speed "increase", just so that his recovery can be better.
 

MarioMeteor

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Maybe we should redo Samus, Marth, Roy, Mewtwo, and other characters that have been changed in recent patches since we covered them.
The one thing that I'll probably never understand is the speed nerfs that Corrin received. It's not like he's all that fast after all. In fact, the nerf to his air speed also nerfs his already mediocre recovery, which makes it a tad worse than it was before the 1.1.5 update.

If anything, Corrin would want an air speed "increase", just so that his recovery can be better.
You've been unmodded.

I'm fine with Corrinbread. I don't think anything's wrong with him. All of my mains hate disjointed characters, so his recent nerfs only did me a favor.
 

wedl!!

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Kamui's speed nerfs are... essentially inconsequential. Not only are they incredibly minimal, it's not like small nerfs to speed would matter to her anyways.

Having huge hitboxes/coverage of options make it not matter too much. Plus Side-B is a move and that's really all the good mobiliy that she'll need.

The nerfs were designed to slightly tone down Kamui's neutral (which was "throw out totally safe, huge hitboxes", and still is, just not as strong) while keeping the character intact. The nerfs were small but didn't end up doing very much in reality.

The character is fine as is. Somewhere within top 20.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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This sounds very similar to the Make Your Move community here on SmashBoards. However your idea sounds a lot more focused on competitive balance, whereas Make Your Move is focused more on creativity. If you want to make movesets, I would check out that thread. The new contest starts in 2 days. But be warned: they will judge your set, as it is a competition, and they will nitpick it very hard!
I'm not sure if that's for me. I like doing movesets for fun, and this sounds overly competitive, and while I would like some feedback for some of my movesets, I don't want half the thread telling me my ideas suck. Also, my idea was for everyone in the community to be talking about a character's potential move set and abilities, and how said character would play, as well as how it would fit in with the rest of the characters in the game. And personally, I think that would be more fun than me popping on a thread and showing them some moves. (With tons of tension as well).

I vote :4ludwig:...wait...
 
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Zerp

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Maybe we should redo Samus, Marth, Roy, Mewtwo, and other characters that have been changed in recent patches since we covered them.
That's also a good idea, added to the suggestion list. :)

Anyways, I think Corrin's fine where he is balance wise, I don't think he needs any buffs or nerfs at the moment.
Here be his results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1NNDVZpzXcxBwIgFnvs-MP5gFWykwfqphVLQ2FjbpLrM/viewanalytics


For today, you can talk about whatever balance related things you want and we'll also be voting on what we should do next, since we just finished all the characters.

You can vote for any of these options and any other suggestions/concepts.

Option 1. Try to create competitively balanced movesets for characters that aren't in the game.
Option 2. We re-do the characters that have been affected by recent patches like Marth, Samus, Sheik, etc.
Option 3. Have no break period and just start the second round the day after tomorrow.
Option 4. Discuss (legal) stages and how they are (or aren't) balanced.
Option 5. Have no main focus and just discuss whatever balance related things we want to for two weeks
For any ideas other ideas, please specify what it is you want, any concept not already here can be listed as "Other: -insert your idea here-", concepts from other are also allowed to win, so don't feel pressured to vote for the ones I listed if you don't want to.
 
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L1N3R1D3R

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Defensive game is still a bit too strong, which could be changed by adding more lag to air dodges and making shields regenerate a bit more slowly. Besides that, the overall game mechanics are pretty balanced IMO.

Voting for stage discussion.
 

Wintermelon43

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I say we train ourselves to battle, make an army of ourselves and TONS of Robs, overthrow Nintendo, and make a balancing democracy where Zero Soul is king.

But srrsly though, idk. Just as long as it isn't the make a moveset, I can't do anything for that.
 

MarioMeteor

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I think once characters like Jigglypuff and Dedede are finally buffed and characters like Zelda and Palutena are buffed some more, this'll be a pretty balanced game. Of course, I've already voiced my disdain for Rage, so I won't beat that anymore.

I'm voting that we do option 2.
 

Muskrat Catcher

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If I can, I would like to vote for both option 1 and option 4.

I can definitely agree with SMAASH! Puppy SMAASH! Puppy that the Make Your Move community is very competetive and very harsh, so it would be cool to do a bit more minimal and casual moveset sharing and ideas. I have at least 3 that I would like to share, and we can then debate about that character's balance in the game! Sounds like a fun system!

I also think that discussing stages would be fun. I only own the 3DS version, so I could probably only give intelligent discussion with those stages, but I occasionally participate in an online tourney with a very liberal stage list (Corneria, Brinstar, Clock Tower, and even Peach's Castle are all legal), so I have some experience with borderline stages.
 
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Wintermelon43

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If stages win, we should have some of the more uncommon thoughts for legal, but sometimes considered by others (Such as Norfair, Midgar, and Pokemon Stadium 2 [Speaking of which, I complety want Pokemon Stadium 2 to be a counterpick]). And pick if we want it as a Legal or not legal
 

Zerp

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Okay, option 4 won, so we're going to do (legal) stage discussion for our break. What stages are legal and which ones aren't is kinda debatable, but we need a list of stages to choose from for this, so I chose a somewhat liberal stage list, real sorry if your favorite couldn't make it.
Delfino Plaza (U)
Halberd (U)
Lylat Cruise (U)
Castle Siege (U)
Town & City (U)
SmashVille (U)
Kongo Jungle 64 (U)
Umbra Clock Tower(U3DS)
Battlefield (U3DS)
Final Destination (U3DS)
Dreamland 64 (U3DS)
Duck Hunt (U3DS)
Arena Ferox (3DS)
Prism Tower (3DS)
Yoshi's Island (3DS)


We'll be doing two stages a day, so the break will last a week counting today, and today, I thought it'd be appropriate we start off discussing both Battlefield and Final Destination so we'll be doing that.

Here's the poll for Battlefield and Final Destination: http://goo.gl/forms/TdQJoOPXnN


So basically for today, I'd like to see discussion on anything balance related regarding these stages, whether their good for your character or not, if you think their deserving of legality or not, if you'd like to see changes, that kind of stuff, but, as always your welcome to discuss any other balance related things as well, I'd love to see some focus on the stages though. :p

Anyways, you can vote for any two of these stages:
Delfino Plaza (U)
Halberd (U)
Lylat Cruise (U)
Castle Siege (U)
Town & City (U)
SmashVille (U)
Umbra Clock Tower (U3DS)
Dreamland 64 (U3DS)
Duck Hunt (U3DS)
Arena Ferox (3DS)
Prism Tower (3DS)
Yoshi's Island (3DS)

Whichever two get the highest amount of votes will be discussed tomorrow and so on.

Edit: Replaced Kongo Jungle with Umbra Clock Tower, I like Kongo Jungle as a stage but I kinda forgot that isn't often seen as legal, whoops. :lol:
Edit 2: Since everyone voted for something separate from each-other I'll vote Halberd and Dreamland so we have some winners, lol.
 
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Muskrat Catcher

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Well, seeing as though these two stages are pretty much the standard for competitive play, and are both starters, and I agree that they are both great starter stages, I have no qualms there, so I will just talk about how good they are for my characters.

:battlefieldb: Battlefield:
:4dedede: Of the starters, this is probably the worst stage for King Dedede on both systems (going off of 3DS list of FD, BF, and Yoshi's Island, and Wii U list of FD, BF, and SV). This stage isn't particularly bad for the King, but he doesn't benefit from it and other characters usually do. The biggest drawback of this stage is that Dedede can't set up gordo traps as easily, and when he does, less of the stage becomes a hazard zone. Also, it becomes very difficult to approach characters camping under a platform since DDD's best approach is from above due to his fast fall speed. However, this stage's boundaries are in favor of the king. Blast zones are relatively far from the stage in every direction, so the King can fully capitalize on his weight and recovery, as well as edge guard well. The position of the bottom blast zone is relevant to Dedede since he likes to edgeguard off stage, and he falls so fast, so he can go even deeper for that edgeguard. Dedede can pressure opponents on platforms fairly well, but is mostly average in that department. Overall probably one of the worse stages for King Dedede, but not the worst.

:4charizard: This stage is probably the best starter for Charizard. Charizard can pressure opponents on platforms very well with U-smash, U-tilt, U-air, and N-air, can use his fast run speed to cover most of the stage in a short time, and can kill off the top well. This is also arguably the best starter for U-throw kills due to the top platform being so accessible. I don't know if landing on the SV platform kills earlier, or the Yoshi's Island platform when a side is tilted upwards, but either way it is somewhat random when you can land on those platforms in those positions. Duck Hunt and Dreamland are the only stages that are consistently better for U-throw kills. Also Zard likes to edgeguard on BF as well, and can usually recover from anywhere with flare blitz or fly, so usually Zard survives a long time. Very solid stage for Zard. Probably my third favorite and I will pick it if DH and DL are banned.

:fdb: Final Destination:
:4dedede: One of Dedede's best stages, and probably his most consistent. This stage is great for setting up gordo traps that make a good portion of the stage a hazard zone, and there is nowhere for the opponent to escape when faced with a gordo ledge trap. This stage still has pretty large blast zones too, so Dedede will survive for a very long time! Still has good edgeguarding potential like BF, and good bottom blast zone. However, Dedede does struggle on this stage versus campy long range projectile characters like Link, Duck Hunt, and Mega Man. If facing one of those characters I would prefer SV/YI depending on system, but otherwise this is my favorite starter, and 2nd or 3rd favorite overall.

:4charizard: This stage is not bad for Charizard, but not very good either, I would call it average, right in the middle. Charizard can cover the stage pretty well due to his speed, edgeguards well, and survives well, but that's about it. U-throw doesn't kill for a while if your opponent DIs well, and Charizard does benefit from platforms, and there are none here. Not much else to say, just a pretty average pick.

EDIT: Just realized I forgot to vote. I vote for Duck Hunt and Dreamland
 
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L1N3R1D3R

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Battlefield: A great overall stage. The top zone is a bit high which hurts some characters, but it's made up for by the high third platform. Somehow Battlefield can't get away from the trend of jank edges, but luckily they aren't nearly as jank this time around; however, removal of the "ceiling" that's present randomly on one of the slopes would be a nice change.

Final Destination: A nice even play field. It does favor the campier characters as there are fewer ways of approaching, but it's not too big to enhance this problem. The blast zones are basically perfect, and the edges are in no way jank (unless you're trying to go under FD, which shouldn't be an issue in competitive play).

Voting Smashville and Town and City.
 
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MarioMeteor

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Love Battlefield, it's my favorite stage in the game. It's consistent, the platforms spice up the gameplay without interfering, and it's a change of scenery from "No items, Sheik only, Smashville." Music's good, too.

Voting Delfino and Halberd.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Since I can't really have any input as to a stage's competitive uses, I will rank stages based off their Music Selection, Looks, and Creativity

Uniqueness wise, Battlefield and Final Destination are terrible. This isn't a bad thing, but they are just too generic to score any points here.

As for Music Selection, both have the same song remixed two to three times (The only one I don't like is Final Destination: Ver. 2, but ssb4's main theme has gotten old fast with how many times it's in the game.), but each have a couple epic themes that you would want to battle to. Battlefield has Boss Battle Song 1, Boss Battle (Melee), Credits (Smash Bros.): Ver. 2, and Final Destination has Menu (Melee): Ver. 2, and Final Destination (Brawl). Overall Battlefield's soundtrack is OK, while Final Destination's leaves something to be desired in my opinion. (I'm still bummed that the Final Destination theme wasn't like Guardian Soul's version of it.)

Visually, these stages are awesome. Battlefield looks great especially at night, and Final Destination looks awesome throughout. Final Destination captures the essence of an epic final battle, though some may complain that it gets a bit too bright when the sun and earth collide, I'm not bothered by this, and it doesn't seem to affect matches, so I doubt it's a problem. I hope the rest of the Final Destinations to come look as epic as this.

To conclude, Battlefield and Final Destination are kinda generic, but that adds to their charm, and they both look great. While Final Destination should get some more epic music, the music that both stages got weren't that bad, with Battlefield in particular having some great songs.

EDIT: I literally don't care about what stages we do so I won't be voting for any.
 
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Zerp

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Battlefield is a pretty good stage for :4jigglypuff:, she greatly benefits off of platforms in general, the blastzones, the vertical and horizontal blastzone are kinda far out, 212 for vertical, and 253 for horizontal, which improves her survivability by alot, and although the vertical blastzone is kind of high, Rest on the top platform kills much earlier than normal. It also gives a lot of room for Wall of Pain and is generally a pretty good stage for edgeguarding. Also, it isn't really that useful but, Jigglypuff can go across the stage from underneath, which lends very well to her bait and punish playstyle, albeit only when used with great caution.

Oddly though, I don't play battlefield that much, which is really weird, I like it as a stage and it's one of the best stages for my main, I should probably play it more.

Final Destination though, is sort of bad for Jigglypuff, it has no platforms, and thus Jigglypuff now has to work harder to get close to her opponent and she is now susceptible to projectiles, the blastzones are okay, they are small horizontally so, not that much benefits for general Jigglypuff edgeguarding but pretty awesome for her WoP and it's vertical stuff is pretty average. It and the omegas are still my most played stages though, I personally like them a lot. :p


Here's the results for Battlefield and Final Destination https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1od2DxGOOqnLd46hVpr-rGI2kYu1-m-byrPxnR2P77jQ/viewanalytics
Halberd and Dreamland won.
Here's Halberd's and Dreamland's poll http://goo.gl/forms/RGMH5tCq4k I imagine this will come down to 64 Dreamland vs Melee Dreamland, should be interesting to see whether or not people prefer the 64 one over the Melee one or vice-versa.


You can vote for these stages
Delfino Plaza (U)
Lylat Cruise (U)
Castle Siege (U)
Town & City (U)
SmashVille (U)
Umbra Clock Tower (U3DS)
Duck Hunt (U3DS)
Arena Ferox (3DS)
Prism Tower (3DS)
Yoshi's Island (3DS)

I vote Lylat Cruise and Delfino Plaza, also, off topic but, you guys are doing great, I'm loving what I'm seeing.
 
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Muskrat Catcher

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I actually have very little competetive experience with Halberd. I like the stage, but since I don't have a Wii U and neither of my weekly locals have it as a legal stage, I don't really have much to say about it, and I can't confidently argue on whether I think it should be legal or not, but I can say that it is a fun stage that doesn't have too much jank but still adds fun to the mix!

Dreamland, however, is my favorite stage in smash, period. I love this stage! I love the music, as it contains my favorite song in smash, Fountain of Dreams, but that's only the cherry on top of an absolutely epic soundtrack to battle to! Also, it is a very competetive stage, since it is basically Battlefield but with the small added element of Wispy Woods, which adds an extra layer of strategy and fun! Also this is one of the few stages shared between 3DS and Wii U, so any stage skills I develop on 3DS can be directly translated to my local Wii U tournies! In terms of my characters. . .
:4dedede: Whenever I get to choose any stage off of a counterpick, I will often choose Dreamland. On paper, this stage doesn't seem that good for Dedede, since BF is one of Dedede's worst, but something about DL, maybe even a psychological element, makes me absolutely love it! In terms of concrete benefits from the stage, this stage has a VERY low bottom blastzone, so I almost never SD from going too deep for that edgeguard, and I can still make it back easily after getting hit with a weak spike. That actually became relevant in one set, on a game 3 last stock versus a Rosalina I got spiked, but BARELY held on, made it back, and won the game and advanced! This stage is easily THE best for edgeguarding. Also I am confident that Wispy benefits Dedede. When two creatures share such a desire to clobbah dat dere kirbeh, they synergize really well. When Wispy is blowing, Dedede's air speed is no longer abysmal, and he can actually approach a campy opponent. Also this stage is amazing for inhale gimps and Dededecides. If someone is standing back from the ledge while I am off stage, respecting the Dededecide, Wispy might start blowing them towards the ledge, and before they know it I have sucked them in. Also, if someone gets spit under DL, the shape of the bottom of the stage makes it very difficult for a lot of characters to get back. And of course, this is Dedede's home turf! His kingdom! Even when he is not playing, he can be seen in the background patrolling his kingdom! I swear that this home field advantage actually makes me play better! And the music gets me so pumped! I am confident that I am performing at my best whenever I play on this stage!
:4charizard: This stage is also amazing for Charizard, I would say second best. The BF layout is already amazing for Zard as I detailed yesterday, and DL has a lower cieling, making U-throw kill even earlier. Not much else significantly benefits Zard, since the bottom blast zone and Wispy aren't as relevant to Zard, and all the benefits from BF still apply, so I won't go over them again. Basically just a better Battlefield!

Perhaps you can see why I love this stage now, since both my characters benefit from it, and I love everything about it. I am voting for Duck Hunt and Arena Ferox for next week
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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So. Halberd and Dream Land 64.

In uniqueness, neither Halberd or Dream Land 64 excel. Halberd has two forms layouts, but they aren't that different. One has a divot in it and the other doesn't. You can go through Halberd's main platform, so that's kinda unique but then again it shares this feature with Delfino Plaza, and Prism Tower, so it's uniqueness is lessened. The only thing that saves this stage is the hazards. A laser a player can put in strategic positions with a little planning, a claw that can be easily dodged, and a giant Electrode...What? It's a ball that explodes. That's close enough right? Anyway these hazards can easily be avoided, but will ruin your day if you get hit by them. As far as Dream Land 64 goes, I'm not going to label it as a battlefield clone because Dream Land 64 came before it, but it is still kinda generic. It does have Wispy Woods blowing on everybody, so that's unique. (Pokémon Stadium 2 has wind too, but it goes up instead of left or right).

The Kirby soundtrack isn't my favorite, but neither stage has a bad song. Halberd has one great song, and the rest aren't bad either. Dream Land 64 has a great selection of Kirby songs, and only has one or two that I find to be meh. My only gripe about the song selection is the fact that Halberd doesn't have C-R-O-W-N-E-D in it's soundtrack.

Looks wise, Halberd didn't age well (as with the rest of Brawl). The colors are a bland mix of browns and reds. I think the downfall of this stage is the fact that the textures of everything wasn't the most believable in the world, and the extremely thick cloud cover didn't create a dark atmosphere that when combined with light, would make everything look cool. (There's also the fact that one look at ssb4's graphic style makes Brawl's graphic style automatically look terrible.) As far as Dream Land 64 goes, it's not the most impressive looking, but it is supposed to be simplistic, and has it's own charms. It actually looks like it jumped right out of Kirby's Return to Dreamland.

In conclusion, Halberd is a mess of dull browns and reds with some unique features, and a meh soundtrack, while Dream Land 64 is a colorful stage with great songs, but isn't very unique. I personally like both stages.
 

L1N3R1D3R

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I feel like Halberd could be toned down a little in its gimmicks. The claw, laser, and cannon can all be surprisingly powerful and turn the tides of the match, and the unusually low ceiling definitely helps some characters more than others. I would slightly raise the ceiling and take out one of the gimmicks on the ship to keep the stage's uniqueness while making it less gimmicky. This is on the verge of not being legal for the ship's gimmicks, and I don't want such a unique stage to go.

Dream Land is a pretty solid stage overall, and the low floor blast zone and decent side blast zones help survivability, no matter the character. However, I feel like the ceiling could be raised just a bit more, because having a still platform that close to the blast zone is a bit ridiculous at times. I feel like this should be a counterpick stage until the ceiling is raised a bit.

Voting Smashville and Town & City.
 

FamilyTeam

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Halberd used to be one of my better stages last year. I could really put the low ceiling and the large platform to good use. However, nowadys, I'll be surprised if I don't accidentally SD both of my stocks while playing in it. It's quite janky, obviously, but that's part of the charm. The stage hazards are as situational as that oversight that makes Bayonetta ungrabbable from behind, so they don't really get in the way.
 

Zerp

Formerly "ZeroSoul"
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For Halberd, I'm going to be blunt, I have absolutely zero clues to whether it's good or bad for :4jigglypuff:, I dunno, but I like it a lot as a stage. Who wouldn't like a giant battleship that fires giant death lasers?
Turns out, it's Puff's worst stage, if you happen to play Jigglypuff, strike it immediately, if your playing against Puff, try bringing them here. :p

Dreamland, is interesting, it used to be Puff's best stage back in Maylay, but alas, it's size was changed and it's blastbox's are now smaller than Battlefields. It's still a good stage for Jigglypuff, and both aesthetically and for gameplay one of my favorites, but I can't help but wish it was the old Melee one. Still a great stage though, well except for the lack of C-R-O-W-N-E-D, why that song isn't there I'll never understan- oh wait, Mr. Sakurai's bias, I guess I do understand now, but I still want it anyway. I love it, but I feel like I'd love it even more if it were changed back to it's Melee self (and had C-R-O-W-N-E-D). :p

Here's Halberd and Dreamland's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1qYU4SBEZRcI_VpAMR9oqO-EPITt48-OnGDDeLFkXhzs/viewanalytics I voted opposite of majority both times, perhaps my taste is bad, lol.
And for today, since no stage got any more votes than the others that got votes, it came down to RNG, so SmashVille and Duck Hunt ended up winning. Here's their poll http://goo.gl/forms/OXsNp0tW7V

You can vote for these stages now
Delfino Plaza (U)
Lylat Cruise (U)
Castle Siege (U)
Town & City (U)
Umbra Clock Tower (U3DS)
Arena Ferox (3DS)
Prism Tower (3DS)
Yoshi's Island (3DS)

I vote Arena Ferox and Delfino Plaza.
 
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FamilyTeam

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Smashville?
Why the hell is Smashville the new FD all of sudden? I seriously feel 5 matches out of 10 take place there, and we have plenty of different legal stages. Well, I guess that, for Smash 4 physics, Smashville kinda is the most neutral stage we have. It's long like FD, which means character that take advantage of FD's design can still work on S. Ville, and there's the large swaying platform, which means characters that can take advnatages of platfroms also work. However, that platform and how the main stage is designed can be the source of jank, since when it's at the extremeties, it can lead to very early Back or Forward Throw kills, and the stage's design can leave to charaters with a predominantely vertical recovery like Sonic getting pineappled.

And Duck Hunt. Duck Hunt is weird. The Ducks actually get in the way of your hits far more often than you think: they can stale your moves and they slow you down slightly if you whack them. The edges of the stage are claustrophobically close to the offscreen, which makes the horizontal Blast Zones look shorter than they are (they are pretty short, but not super short), the stage itself is a tad too long, those bushes and the dog get it the way, and the tallest platfrom in the stage is really close to the top Blastline. Duck Hunt is legal, yes, definitely, but I feel like it's barely so.
 

MarioMeteor

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Don't particularly like either of these. I am so goddamn sick of Smashville, and I just plain don't like Duck Hunt because of how campy it is. I vote Delfino and Clock Tower.
 

L1N3R1D3R

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Smashville is a great stage, definitely worthy of being a neutral. It hardly has any gimmicks, as it is mostly flat with a single platform and the occasional balloon. It can cause some jank if the platform is near the blast zone, but that's seen so rarely that I wouldn't consider it an issue. Overall a nice competitive stage, worthy of its praise IMO.

Duck Hunt, on the other hand, is a perfect example of a counterpick. It has plenty of gimmicks that could cause lots of frustration, including high platforms, moving platforms (the dog), ducks that get in the way of lots of aerials, and small side blast zones. However, none of them are too overwhelming, as it is a pretty flat stage otherwise, and the vertical walls are a nice touch. It could use with not as many ducks for competitive purposes, though.

Voting Town & City and Umbra Clock Tower.
 

Green Zelda

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Don't know much about Duck Hunt, but Smashville is a pretty fair neutral stage that doesn't really need any changes.
Of course, stuff like this (skip to 6:48) occasionally happens, but, like ^ said, this almost never happens.

EDIT: Whoops, they were playing on Town and City. not Smashville. My bad!
 
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FamilyTeam

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Don't know much about Duck Hunt, but Smashville is a pretty fair neutral stage that doesn't really need any changes.
Of course, stuff like this (skip to 6:48) occasionally happens, but, like ^ said, this almost never happens.
That's Town and City, not Smashville.
 
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