The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[FamilyTeam]

This is pretty "in hand", lol.
No one's mad. Our friend here... just made quite a bold statement.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Roy is a strange case as a character, really: a lot immense strengths he was designed to do is held back by his heavy-moving air attributes that make him such combo-food and easily gimped character, and despite not having fluid frame data in whole, is stuck with a risky, RISKY playstyle on practice.
This is not helped by how Roy's range and sourspots don't give him that much advantage (aside from few set-ups in higher percents) to get close to his opponent in order to do much better damage- especially when combined with the unsafe options he has on shield and no autocancels in any aerials. I

Along with this is that his community's more "In the shadows" and scattered about throughout the world, with some having more pronounced strengths and playstyles than others.

Right now indeed, I think Roy has to yet keep on proving he's more than low-tier.
I personally think he deserves good sum of buffs too in order to break out of his convoluted playstyle in higher play. He feels little underwhelming and not very appealing choice compared to other characters that have more reliable movesets or techniques and easier to pick up playstyles. Otherwise he's forced to build a niche that would be mostly for the loyalists - whether that springs him up a tier and more is up to them.

Anyway, to MarioMeteor , I hope you know what you're doing, otherwise don't parrot on pointlessly about a point you haven't been able to prove to others you're arguing with.

 

[Ryochi]

Alright everyone, let's just "agree to disagree", before things get out of hand. (please )

That Profile Pic is mine now.

 

[MarioMeteor]

if you think Roy is mid tier, go to majors and prove it lmao

I'm not going to try to prove something that I think. See, unlike you, I'm not trying to pass off what I think as fact, so I don't have to prove jack ****.

In other words, You know you're wrong about Roy, and can't argue aganist Feelicks and FamilyTeam, and so, chose not to argue about it anymore and just end off with this.


He lives closer to Florida than California/Nevada, so go prove it at CEO since it's easier MarioMeteor

Why don't you stay out of this, because I already know you're about as knowledgeable as a chew toy. There is no right or wrong answer here, as I've been stressing.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I'm not going to try to prove something that I think. See, unlike you, I'm not trying to pass off what I think as fact, so I don't have to prove jack ****.

Why don't you stay out of this, because I already know you're about as knowledgeable as a chew toy. There is no right or wrong answer here, as I've been stressing.

This is your opinion, yeah!...
...Why is he better than Lucina, though? Can we focus on the question, please?

 

[Wintermelon43]

I'm not going to try to prove something that I think. See, unlike you, I'm not trying to pass off what I think as fact, so I don't have to prove jack ****.

Why don't you stay out of this, because I already know you're about as knowledgeable as a chew toy. There is no right or wrong answer here, as I've been stressing.

Thanks!

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Sounds like fun. I'm in.

So, Roy? You ask, how does one make him stronger? Or, do you think he's perfectly balanced? Well, I can assure you that in the Tristate scene, Marth is quickly rising in popularity, with players like Pugwest and Mr. E, while Roy is a rare sight.

I like to think characters can be instantly fixed by eliminating their greatest weakness. For Roy, I'd say it's recovery. Improve the vertical range on Blazer AND make it a stronger combo finisher, and you've got yourself a much more effective character.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I don't even get it, why is he also throwing so many insults around as well?
If he really firmly believed that, he wouldn't have to resort to insulting us, "chew toys" and all.

 

[Deleted member]

MarioMeteor

Money match me. Now.

Since you play as Roy, go as him. Best 2 out of 3 set. Let's go.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

To me, Roy needs to get his moves made more safer and have a better synergy (possibly via auto-cancels or making them just more safer on shield during sourspots)- along with being able to kill better in low percentages on some attacks (Aerial Sweetspot U-Air would be great). Roy's throws have also lost their usefulness over time due being easy to DI as a whole which doesn't do well on his range, along with endlag in such throws.

Finally, commitment with Roy is not really paying off unless you play by pressure, but again, the kill set-ups and options are limited and if even read by opponents, force him to constantly bide his time. With more aggravating matchups like Marth or Cloud, Roy's gonna be easily shut down by more superior range-play and usually better zoning/spacing game.
If he had more safer options along with reliable linking, giving better rewards for his playstyle, it would do immensely for him.

Recovery IMO is not Roy's worst aspect enough to be addressed (IMO Cloud's worse, honestly), but I'd love it to kill better if using on the air.

 

[Furret24]

MarioMeteor

Money match me. Now.

Since you play as Roy, go as him. Best 2 out of 3 set. Let's go.

He hasn't had WiFi in months and I highly doubt he'll travel to Orlando just to MM you. Sorry.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Roy is a combo fighter above all else. He plays like he's pulled straight out of Melee. If this is accentuated with autocancels, that's another possible method of buffing. That's what Patch 1.1.4 attempted to do, but is ultimately failed to have a big enough impact.

Ok hold on, since when was this Fight Club: Roy edition? You should all just let this argument go. Roy, Marth, and Lucina can all be treated as equals. They're similar characters, with optimized fighting styles.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I feel like to fix Roy, his sourspots need to be buffed. He's basically a reverse Marth with his sword, but Marth's sourspots are usually decent if not the better option at times, whereas Roy's sourspots are unarguably worse in every situation than his sweetspots. Roy desperately needs to be at least okay at ranged game, and at the moment he's trash at that, which in my eyes makes him the worst sword fighter.

Voting .

 

[Eugene Wang]

Roy needs better combo abilities. His character build implies a rushdown style, but he can't do much off of a hit. And he has trouble against shields.

My personal pick of buffs:
* Reduce knockback growth on forward throw so it combos into dash attack until 100% or so.
* Make up throw KO at 160% rather than 180%, letting it function as a stock cap.
* Give down throw less endlag so it can function as a kill mixup around 120-140%.
* It's already been said. Less freaking landing lag.
* Give Blazer good knockback armor so Roy isn't as easily spiked out of his recovery.
* Give his Final Smash a sweetspot near the hilt that deals 3 damage per hit, rather than 1. I know it doesn't affect competitive play, but why not?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So...>>? ...That's depressing. Especially considering that Marth isn't as good as he used to be. There seems to be a pattern in the fact that the Sakurai's attempt of making a clone different from the original makes the clone worse than the original. The only exceptions to that are Luigi, Toon Link, and arguably Dark Pit (since he isn't that different.). I hope this changes...

 

[Zerp]

I believe Roy's probably not very well off right now, I think he's low tier,possibly lowest part of mid, but either way I think he deserves quite a few buffs.

Here's Roy's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1iO8u4gwaYNzih6W88l00VUNNbGbMLjtLEu2PkXibLMI/viewanalytics

Kirby won today, so here's his poll :D http://goo.gl/forms/MzAtp8bZkD

You can vote for any of these characters

I was pretty happy with all the debating I saw yesterday, and this doesn't apply for most of you, but I'd also like to issue a friendly reminder that while debate is both fine and encouraged, insulting others for any reason is NOT something I'm tolerant of, I'll let yesterday's couple of insults slide for now, but do not do that again.

 

[FamilyTeam]

So...>>? ...That's depressing. Especially considering that Marth isn't as good as he used to be. There seems to be a pattern in the fact that the Sakurai's attempt of making a clone different from the original makes the clone worse than the original. The only exceptions to that are Luigi, Toon Link, and arguably Dark Pit (since he isn't that different.). I hope this changes...

I honestly believe Marth vs Lucina is more a matter of preference than either of them being better than the other.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Oh, Kirby. You're like Ganon in that you both have gotten a great number of buffs, but so far none of them have fixed your main problems. You can now combo and kill better, but that doesn't matter when you have trouble getting in. You can copy abilities, but it's not useful when the move is slow and punishable. If only your neutral game were better, you would be a real threat. Until then, you'll always be a low tier.

Voting for iStudying--er, Greninja.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Good lord Roy is horrible, he makes 64 Samus look like Brawl Little Mac.
His range is worst than Jigglypuff's, Neutral has zero use, has no way of racking up damage even with a read, it take forever to kill, & another useless counter? COME ON!

By far the worst character in the game!
And if you disagree with me then you're wrong for even wondering.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Brawl Little Mac.

Who's Brawl Little Mac?

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Who's Brawl Little Mac?

April Fools.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I tried replying sarcastically but... I didn't make it clear enough.
Also it's a tad too late for that.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

I tried replying sarcastically but... I didn't make it clear enough.
Also it's a tad too late for that.

Don't care.
Git gud at posting scrub.

Spoiler: You know were this is going

It's the 1st of the 4th month, & I'm going to have some fun.

 

[Green Zelda]

Don't know much about Kirby (according to the vault, he's my second least used character lol), but a lot of people say his neutral is mediocre. Maybe some airspeed buffs would help?

Voting for #toptiertink!

 

[Zerp]

Kirby's pretty hard for me to rate honestly, since I see him as being almost in between Low and Middle Tier, I legit can't tell if I think he's the bottom of Middle Tier, or the top of Low Tier. I think he's alright, but he definitely can use at least some improvements, if he were to get buffed, I hope it won't be like the last couple times where they seemingly ignore his core problems, and actually address his issues approaching, but I'm not sure how to actually fix that, and not sure how much fixing he actually needs. Hopefully Mr. Sakurai can think up something real smart for his brainchild that makes sense.

Here's Kirby's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1E9_R9pi8xkqUu0rRka2cjQB_BGGHJi-AfWWdeCDPUkw/viewanalytics

Here's Toon Link's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/x51HELRucj

And here's who you can vote for:
I'll vote for .
Also, Wind Waker is the best Zelda game.

 

[Wintermelon43]

DANG IT I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO VOTE ON KIRBY

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I guess Sakurai realized that wasn't quite as good as he was in Brawl at release, because they've kept giving him small buffs to improve him even further. I now see him as a solid high tier character (he's at the top of Tier 3 out of 7 in my personal tier list), and the results of Hyuga and others back up this theory. He's objectively much better than his realistic counterpart.

Voting for .

 

[Green Zelda]

pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
Make his ftilt/dtilt faster so I can use them as a "get off me" option.

pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
Reduce the landing/ending lag on his aerials. (ESPECIALLY BAIR!)

pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
Increase his grab speed.

And as a personal request (that doesn't really need to happen tbh):
Give him a combo throw (like link's down throw)

That's it for now! (I'll edit in anything else I can come up with)
I honestly don't know how they can fix his bad down air, sadly.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Balance-wise, Toon Link seems okay, but I wish they'd make him less campy. Like really, watch CrazieCuban play Toon Link and count how many Bombs he throws.

Voting Marth.

 

[Zerp]

About Toon Link, I honestly don't think I understand enough about the character's strengths and how good he is in comparison to the rest of the roster to accurately rate him, so I'mma gonna have to abstain.
Here's his results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PXdZ-OcktzlwRfWd0G2xZPMrVPM7bQY2XfKRqbhM-BU/viewanalytics

And here's Greninja's poll for today http://goo.gl/forms/7ipnQkRgIS
Should be pretty interesting, since, as far as I can tell, ever since the latest patch opinions on Greninja have been shifting quite a bit.

Here's who you can vote for:
I vote for

 

[MarioMeteor]

Greninja should start all matches with a 50% handicap.

Voting Marth.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Greninja should start all matches with a 50% handicap.

Voting Marth.

sigh...That wasn't funny the first time.

I honestly don't play Greninja enough to say anything worthwhile on him so...I'll just leave for now.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I feel like people are still underrating . He's going higher in my tier list because he was already a great character before 1.1.5 (see iStudying), and now his very influential buffs plus the nerfs to his hardest matchups have really helped his case. He's just fine as he is, and I hope more people start repping him.

Voting .

 

[MarioMeteor]

sigh...That wasn't funny the first time.

I honestly don't play Greninja enough to say anything worthwhile on him so...I'll just leave for now.

It'll always be funny to me.

 

[Zerp]

Greninja's pretty good imo, I don't think he needs any buffs but definitely doesn't need any nerfs either.
Here's his results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1TI6Vrd55iK9vKJvNqLPcdY56wlm1STuT3Q-ptUuLUKg/viewanalytics

Here's Marth's poll http://goo.gl/forms/48pUM8wUgK

Here's who you can vote for:
I'm voting for Duck hunt again

 

[FamilyTeam]

Might I reinstate my question towards MarioMeteor ?
I'm still curious as to how how is better than Marth or Lucina. I mean, we are debating Marth, now.

 

[Furret24]

Marth.

He's really fun to play as with his new buffs. His range and speed are great while also having a lot of power due to tippers being fairly easy to land and being located at the end of his sword, giving him an great spacing game. I think he's in a pretty good spot now. Honestly, I see him as far superior to Roy now. MarioMeteor , as Family asked, i'm curious as to how you think Roy is better than Marth or Lucina now. The only thing Roy has over them is speed and being a slightly smaller target. Marthcina have better range, safety, recovery, power, and spacing.

The only downside is that fighting him with my main has become such a pain now.

I vote .

 

[Green Zelda]

Voting , pound really changed the way I view her as a character (in a good way, heh)

As for the Lucina thing, I'd also like to know why you think Roy's better (you don't have to if you don't want to, but we'd still like to know)

 

[MarioMeteor]

Marth.

He's really fun to play as with his new buffs. His range and speed are great while also having a lot of power due to tippers being fairly easy to land and being located at the end of his sword, giving him an great spacing game. I think he's in a pretty good spot now. Honestly, I see him as far superior to Roy now. MarioMeteor , as Family asked, i'm curious as to how you think Roy is better than Marth or Lucina now. The only thing Roy has over them is speed and being a slightly smaller target. Marthcina have better range, safety, recovery, power, and spacing.

The only downside is that fighting him with my main has become such a pain now.

I vote .

Roy is much stronger than Marth in terms of raw power, his frame data is better, he has better out of shield options, and he's generally a more rewarding character when played correctly.

As of now I'm in conflict as to rather Marth is better than Roy. Pre-1.13 if you told me that Marth was better, I'd have laughed in your face, but now, I don't know. His range increase is what really had me second-guessing myself.

That said, I think Marth is an underrated mid tier as of 1.15, and I'm pretty happy with the way he is. I can't think of much more they can do with him, but I'm sure Sakurai will find a way.

I'll vote Jigglypuff, even though she got no changes.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Roy is much stronger than Marth in terms of raw power, his frame data is better, he has better out of shield options, and he's generally a more rewarding character when played correctly.

His sourspots are less useful than Marth's, though, and his sweetspots are hard to achieve.
And those other two points... Dunno where you even got that from, tbh.