The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[MockRock]

Cleffa needs to be more pink. It's not pink enough. Sakurai pls.

 

[Zerp]

About rage, personally, I feel like it should be kept but only for the heavies and maybe Lucario, they're really the only people who need it, otherwise the less well-off lightweights (Palutena, Jigglypuff, etc) are at even more of a disadvantage than they usually are against characters like Cloud, Mario, etc, that are not heavy yet can still benefit off of rage.

Anyways, since nobody voted, I guess that means I get to decide who we go with today, so, uhhhh, Sonic, I guess.
Here's Cleffa's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JFlsYsv2oODZfN6W3ouwjfTh4z4-YRaP1srW030dVqs/viewanalytics
and here's Sonic's poll http://goo.gl/forms/DFjW0HI1Im
You can vote for these peeps

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't really have much to say for Sonic, but his low air acceleration does make it difficult for him to move around in the air freely.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Don't change, he's had enough nerfs already.

I vote for (Didn't I vote him last time?)

 

[Axel311]

Rage is a great mechanic. Seeing more comebacks is great for spectators. And it helps balance heavyweights while at the same time toning down the light speedy combo types that typically dominate smash games.

It does make the game more swingy but its swingy nature does not affect results in the long run, only the short run. Taking it out would make the game a more consistent measure of skill, but it would also make it less fun to watch and less complex to play as you don't have to adapt to it. And in my opinion, it would make the game more boring since matches would be a lot more predictable and comebacks wouldn't be nearly as possible.

I really like it. Overall it's a good mechanic for smash. Adds a lot of fun and watchability at only the loss of a little bit of consistency results-wise.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Am I the only person in the entire community that never had a single issue with pre-nerf Sonic?
I'd actually like seeing his Back Throw kill earlier than 200%.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Am I the only person in the entire community that never had a single issue with pre-nerf Sonic?
I'd actually like seeing his Back Throw kill earlier than 200%.

I would agree if I didn't main Kirby

 

[MarioMeteor]

Am I the only person in the entire community that never had a single issue with pre-nerf Sonic?
I'd actually like seeing his Back Throw kill earlier than 200%.

I mean, that doesn't change the fact that the character was cancer.

Oh, Sanic. You know what's funny? I hate Sonic more than any other character in the game. That being said, I can't think of a single way to nerf him that Sakurai hasn't beat me to already. It's like, taking cancer from cancer still leaves more cancer.

About rage, personally, I feel like it should be kept but only for the heavies and maybe Lucario, they're really the only people who need it, otherwise the less well-off lightweights (Palutena, Jigglypuff, etc) are at even more of a disadvantage than they usually are against characters like Cloud, Mario, etc, that are not heavy yet can still benefit off of rage.

You are indeed a wise Jigglypuff.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Sonic is annoying, but he's gotten his kill options worsened to make up for his great neutral and setups, so he's fine as he is.

Voting .

 

[Green Zelda]

Pretty sure sonic's fine as he is (the people who think he's overpowered just need to study the matchup a little more).

Voting !

 

[Zerp]

Here's Captain Falcon's poll http://goo.gl/forms/6apvLuujaZ
And here's Sonic's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1zROz7oqsCBph_T33qetARGK7oAAYXaPf8G_X0kGANsM/viewanalytics
You can vote for these individuals that may or may not have been buffed.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't get why Captain Falcon's air speed got nerfed after Brawl. His recovery has always been mediocre, and weakening his air speed just adds insult to injury.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Knee has to have less landing lag when the hitbox hasn't come out. Down air needs to have a bit less landing lag in general.

Voting .

 

[Wintermelon43]

Nothing

I vote for

 

[Furret24]

I get salty when grounded Raptor Boost kills me at 70% (ex. I got killed by it on FG 1v1 yesterday at 73%), but there's nothing about Falcon that really warrants any buffs or nerfs.

I vote .

 

[Axel311]

Honestly I think Cpt. Falcon is one of the most balanced characters. Clear strengths and clear weaknesses. I think he's fine as is. I think his bad recovery needs to stay, he's supposed to be high risk/high reward. If they wanted to buff him in any way, I'd say up his weight so it's more imperative to gimp him.

 

[Zerp]

I think Captain Falcon's pretty darn balanced, I see no need to change him, and that's a good thing.
Here's his results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1rhCxtEETJcUx4mb2wYPxNvDE0ZJUyB3pyb3FAkrZiXY/viewanalytics
And here's Shaq's poll for the day http://goo.gl/forms/BUEMxLP8fS
Man I gotta say, isn't Shaq just a tad bit broken? I think his grab to slam dunk combo is disgusting, like gee, why is it even in the game, please nerf him, it's just way too OP.

You can vote for these fellows.


(If your lost, today's a joke day, just talk about whatever balance related stuff you want to, yesterday's patch, characters you want to see buffed, nerfs you want to see, anything!)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

All that I can say is, Waluigi hates Shaq.

 

[Axel311]

Shaq's post up to dunk combo is worse than Diddy Hoo hah. That needs to go. As does his run to sweat infinite.

He needs a weight/speed nerf. You can't zone him out, once he gets in you're done. Also thinking this might help with the dunk to backboard shatter glitch that is breaking stages.

Might want to further reduce his running speed so he's weaker to a rushdown playstyle.

The only buff I can see is his hitboxes need revisting, when playing him I keep wiffing jabs on shorter characters.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Dude, the patch yesterday, It's almost as if they were actually listening to a lot of the things people said on this thread! Such smart, justified, and great changes, both nerfs and buffs! I mean Dedede and Jiggly have still got nothing for some reason, but everyone else was treated very well!

Ok but guys, there must be a reason why Dedede and Puff haven't been buffed. This patch proves that the developers have been paying attention to the game, the players, and the characters, and have been changing them accordingly. So they must at least SEE that Dedede and Puff are inferior characters outright. Why have they done nothing? Why has Dedede only been nerfed? Why does puff have literally zero changes since launch? WHY NINTENDO?

Oh, and Shaq? Honestly I think I watched him for more time during his part in Airplane! than in the actual NBA. However his role in that movie was top tier, and he had serious competition too! So I would be in favor of a nerf. That man is too powerful!

 

[Axel311]

Ok but guys, there must be a reason why Dedede and Puff haven't been buffed. This patch proves that the developers have been paying attention to the game, the players, and the characters, and have been changing them accordingly. So they must at least SEE that Dedede and Puff are inferior characters outright. Why have they done nothing? Why has Dedede only been nerfed? Why does puff have literally zero changes since launch? WHY NINTENDO?

The reason has to be because they just haven't gotten to those 2 characters yet and are leaving the work on them for a future patch. Has to be. No other explanation makes sense. They clearly must realize they're underpowered. And they're clearly balancing around competitive 1v1 play judging by all the nerfs of characters who are bad in other game modes and casual play, as well as judging by buffs for characters who are OP in other game modes and in casual play.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The reason has to be because they just haven't gotten to those 2 characters yet and are leaving the work on them for a future patch. Has to be. No other explanation makes sense. They clearly must realize they're underpowered. And they're clearly balancing around competitive 1v1 play judging by all the nerfs of characters who are bad in other game modes and casual play, as well as judging by buffs for characters who are OP in other game modes and in casual play.

What bothers me is the fact that they turned King Dedede's saving grace into a piece of trash. I mean, I know the 3Ds probably couldn't handle Waddle Dee toss, but why did they think replacing it with a projectile that takes forever to come out and can be reflected with normal attacks was a good idea.

 

[Axel311]

What bothers me is the fact that they turned King Dedede's saving grace into a piece of trash. I mean, I know the 3Ds probably couldn't handle Waddle Dee toss, but why did they think replacing it with a projectile that takes forever to come out and can be reflected with normal attacks was a good idea.

I mean it has some advantages, especially to lay down lingering hitboxes for edgeguarding. And the ping pong mechanic on paper is a good one, it just needs to be tilted more in Dedede's favor. Gordos are great stage control and I have no issue with the gordo reflect mechanic, just that it so overwhelmingly favors Dedede's opponents. Make them easier for Dedede to counter reflect by reducing the end lag on gordo toss, and increase the reflection threshold so not nearly every projectile in the game reflects them.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Dedede and Jiggs still need buffs, Rosalina still needs nerfs, Bayonetta could use with a bit of nerfing on the aerial combos. Besides that, this game is now rid of all insane top and bottom tiers (unless you disallow Mii customs, in which case RIP Brawler).

Shaq is a bit too overpowered, though. I mean, he's not even in the game, which just proves that him being in the game would be too overwhelming for the other characters. I mean seriously, how could you face off against an NBA super star?

Voting .

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean it has some advantages, especially to lay down lingering hitboxes for edgeguarding. And the ping pong mechanic on paper is a good one, it just needs to be tilted more in Dedede's favor. Gordos are great stage control and I have no issue with the gordo reflect mechanic, just that it so overwhelmingly favors Dedede's opponents. Make them easier for Dedede to counter reflect by reducing the end lag on gordo toss, and increase the reflection threshold so not nearly every projectile in the game reflects them.

Actually, thinking more on it, the ending lag on the move is really the only big weakness the move has since you can't knock it back unless you two are extremely far away from each other. There are worse moves out there anyway.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Jigglypuff and Dedede need buffs.

I vote for

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Dedede and Jiggs still need buffs, Rosalina still needs nerfs, Bayonetta could use with a bit of nerfing on the aerial combos. Besides that, this game is now rid of all insane top and bottom tiers (unless you disallow Mii customs, in which case RIP Brawler).

I don't really see why Rosalina needs any more nerfs. The Luma spawn time has already been increased since Smash Wii U's release, and her weight got weakened just a month ago.

 

[Furret24]

The only character who's weight changed notably is Sheik. The weight changes to Sonic, Rosalina, Ganondorf, Kirby, and Mewtwo (sadly) didn't really do anything. :|

 

[Zerp]

It's been said to death by now, but I also want Jigglypuff and Dedede buffs, more than anything else. Anyways, with Sheik and Zero Suit Samus getting their power reduced, I have to wonder, what is the top tier going to look like, is it going to be someone new standing all triumphant at the top or perhaps the strongest is still Sheik or Zero Suit Samus? I'm pretty curious to see how that pans out.

Anywho, (is that even a word?) here's Shaq's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1rUKQ0wMNIa9iziWH8QUEqm5JPY0iJjT4niqSvOCFtyY/viewanalytics

And here's Pikachu's poll for today http://goo.gl/forms/DovcoAv9fk

You can vote for a grand and exquisite selection of characters , but only as long as they're one of these two and .

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Based off of my experience, Pikachu is...fine as is.

One thing that bothers me though, is the fact that Pikachu and Jigglypuff are the only Pokémon in the game with their shiny pallets as pallet swaps. What's the deal with that? Mewtwo and Greninja come close, and Lucario and Charizard don't get anywhere near their shiny forms. Pokkén Tournament does this too. What's it with fighting games and not giving shiny pallets as pallet swaps?

 

[apparently fuz]

Just wondering, are we just going to vote for characters and end up only saying, "they're fine"? Come on.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Pikachu is pretty good as he is. He could use with a slight nerf on Thunder in exchange for a slight buff in range, but that's probably just a crazy idea I have.

Voting .

I don't really see why Rosalina needs any more nerfs. The Luma spawn time has already been increased since Smash Wii U's release, and her weight got weakened just a month ago.

I wasn't exactly thinking NERF necessarily, but nerfing Luma while buffing Rosalina would be a welcome change to make her not quite as broken with Luma (s.f. Dabuz 0-death on Mr. R) and not quite as weak without it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

While on vacation, I missed Cleffa day. I thought I would post a Cleffa moveset anyway just for the heck of it.

Spoiler

Neutral Attack-Cleffa attacks with a glowing leaf twice, then rapidly attacks with leaves, before finishing off the combo with a headbutt.
Dash Attack-Cleffa launches itself forward.
Forward Tilt-Cleffa throws a present at the opponent.
Up Tilt-Cleffa twirls around as snowflakes shoot upward around Cleffa’s body.
Down Tilt-Cleffa fires a stream of fire from its mouth.
Forward Smash-Cleffa fires a beam of electricity forward. (Similar to Pikachu’s Thunderbolt in the anime.)
Up Smash-Cleffa fires three hearts above it by blowing a kiss.
Down Smash-Cleffa jumps, and yells upon landing. The yell creates soundwaves all around Cleffa.
Neutral Areal-Cleffa fires toxic fumes from its mouth as it twirls around.
Forward Aerial-Cleffa yells. This creates soundwaves that damage the opponent.
Back Areal-Cleffa flings a berry behind it.
Up Areal-Cleffa fires a green beam of energy upward.
Down Areal-Cleffa ground pounds.
Grab-Cleffa grabs the opponent. It’s extremely short.
Pummel-Cleffa headbutts the opponent.
Forward Throw-Cleffa throws the opponent forward.
Back Throw-Cleffa throws the opponent backward
Up Throw-Cleffa throws the opponent upward, then headbutts it.
Down Throw-Cleffa jumps on the opponent.
Floor-Cleffa flashes. At the end of the flash Cleffa is back on its feet.
Edge-Cleffa forcefully gets up.
Neutral Special-Psych Up: Cleffa copies the stats of the nearest character. This only last as long as Shulk's Monado Arts, however, and there is a cooldown time.
Side Special- Zen Headbutt: This special move works exactly like Pikachu’s Skull Bash, except Cleffa travels faster.
Up Special-Secret Power: Cleffa spins around as pink energy surrounds it. Cleffa is launched in the direction you choose.
Down Special-After You: Cleffa points in front of it, as if to display the opponent. If the opponent attacks it, Cleffa happily backflips, and claps its hands. This forces the opponent to use the same attack a couple more times.
Final Smash-Metronome: Time stops as Cleffa does a little dance involving it waving its arms, then Cleffa uses a random Final Smash.
Up Taunt-Jumps up and Down.
Side Taunt-Dances
Down Taunt-Dances.
On-Screen Appearance-Comes out of a Dusk Poké Ball.
Cheer-Cleffa! Cleffa! You’re so cute!
Victory Fanfare-Remix of the Pokémon Main Theme. Same as all the other Pokémon’s fanfares.
Winning Pose-Jumps happily, Sings, or Sleeps.
Loosing Pose-Cleffa sits down, disappointed.
Pallet Swaps-Pinkish with Brown Ears (Normal), Light Pink with Green Ears (Shiny), Yellow with Black Ears (Pichu colors), Dark Pink with Yellow Ears (Smoochum colors), Red with Yellow Ears (Magby colors), Blue with Black Ears (Wynaut colors), Black with Red Ears (Also has neon blue lightning patterns on its cheeks because why not?), Green with Light Blue Ears.

Just wondering, are we just going to vote for characters and end up only saying, "they're fine"? Come on.

Only because we have already talked about the characters that we don't think are fine as is. Keep in mind that the character of the day is only the character of focus, and you can talk about anyone you want provided it proteins to a smash character or this thread.

 

[Deleted member]

literally every character we've gone through the past week is completely fine lol

 

[Zerp]

Posting this slightly early because I need to do a thing, sorry for the inconvenience.

While on vacation, I missed Cleffa day. I thought I would post a Cleffa moveset anyway just for the heck of it.

Spoiler

Neutral Attack-Cleffa attacks with a glowing leaf twice, then rapidly attacks with leaves, before finishing off the combo with a headbutt.
Dash Attack-Cleffa launches itself forward.
Forward Tilt-Cleffa throws a present at the opponent.
Up Tilt-Cleffa twirls around as snowflakes shoot upward around Cleffa’s body.
Down Tilt-Cleffa fires a stream of fire from its mouth.
Forward Smash-Cleffa fires a beam of electricity forward. (Similar to Pikachu’s Thunderbolt in the anime.)
Up Smash-Cleffa fires three hearts above it by blowing a kiss.
Down Smash-Cleffa jumps, and yells upon landing. The yell creates soundwaves all around Cleffa.
Neutral Areal-Cleffa fires toxic fumes from its mouth as it twirls around.
Forward Aerial-Cleffa yells. This creates soundwaves that damage the opponent.
Back Areal-Cleffa flings a berry behind it.
Up Areal-Cleffa fires a green beam of energy upward.
Down Areal-Cleffa ground pounds.
Grab-Cleffa grabs the opponent. It’s extremely short.
Pummel-Cleffa headbutts the opponent.
Forward Throw-Cleffa throws the opponent forward.
Back Throw-Cleffa throws the opponent backward
Up Throw-Cleffa throws the opponent upward, then headbutts it.
Down Throw-Cleffa jumps on the opponent.
Floor-Cleffa flashes. At the end of the flash Cleffa is back on its feet.
Edge-Cleffa forcefully gets up.
Neutral Special-Psych Up: Cleffa copies the stats of the nearest character. This only last as long as Shulk's Monado Arts, however, and there is a cooldown time.
Side Special- Zen Headbutt: This special move works exactly like Pikachu’s Skull Bash, except Cleffa travels faster.
Up Special-Secret Power: Cleffa spins around as pink energy surrounds it. Cleffa is launched in the direction you choose.
Down Special-After You: Cleffa points in front of it, as if to display the opponent. If the opponent attacks it, Cleffa happily backflips, and claps its hands. This forces the opponent to use the same attack a couple more times.
Final Smash-Metronome: Time stops as Cleffa does a little dance involving it waving its arms, then Cleffa uses a random Final Smash.
Up Taunt-Jumps up and Down.
Side Taunt-Dances
Down Taunt-Dances.
On-Screen Appearance-Comes out of a Dusk Poké Ball.
Cheer-Cleffa! Cleffa! You’re so cute!
Victory Fanfare-Remix of the Pokémon Main Theme. Same as all the other Pokémon’s fanfares.
Winning Pose-Jumps happily, Sings, or Sleeps.
Loosing Pose-Cleffa sits down, disappointed.
Pallet Swaps-Pinkish with Brown Ears (Normal), Light Pink with Green Ears (Shiny), Yellow with Black Ears (Pichu colors), Dark Pink with Yellow Ears (Smoochum colors), Red with Yellow Ears (Magby colors), Blue with Black Ears (Wynaut colors), Black with Red Ears (Also has neon blue lightning patterns on its cheeks because why not?), Green with Light Blue Ears.

I love this so much.


Okay, so about Pikachu, I am a firm believer that he's a top 6 character, he doesn't have these miraculous results, but his stats on paper and what he can actually do are terrifying, perhaps he's not top 6 in the current metagame, but in optimal play I have no doubt he's one of the best. I'd probably give him some general nerfs, nothing too major, just lowering his attack speed in general, because, while he isn't a problem in the meta right now, I personally cannot see him not becoming a problem over time, his kit's just too good in my opinion.

Here's Pikachu's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ukYJoinEYl4M8Ro1xu2nVeOrzjrfjznICkOWLEB5nHw/viewanalytics
Interestingly, there were 3 responses, and all 3 of them had completely different ideas on where Pikachu was and how he should be handled.
And here's Villager's poll for today http://goo.gl/forms/81dQvEnBFT

Tomorrow we're going to do since she's the last one left and after that, we'll do either or , so for voting today, since we're already doing Peach tomorrow, please vote for either of the DLC duo, whoever wins gets to go first.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Oh, you. A character that is complained about because of his camping, but in all honestly his moves are fairly balanced so they're all either really fast, really ranged, or really powerful, and never a combination (besides pocketed projectiles). Also, the highest ranked Villager (Ranai) is very aggressive and doesn't camp much. As such, he doesn't need any changes.

Voting .

 

[MarioMeteor]

Oh...Villager. This character disgusts me. Make him less campy, that's all I ask. As he is I usually end up switching to Rosalina to fight him, and do you know how long Villager vs. Rosalina takes?

I suppose I'll vote Bayonetta since I find her slightly less boring than Corn.

 

[Zerp]

I'd like to apologize for my lateness today, I had a couple things to do in town, and lost track of the time, sorry.

Anyway, here's Villy's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1bs...eSspXisiDu4Z2s/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm
Peach's poll:http://goo.gl/forms/n2d9OwHUwE
Tomorrow we'll go over Bayonetta, and the day after that, Corrin.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

She had her infinite removed, now let's hope no one complains about her. She's a high skill, high reward character that needs no changes.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I would complain a little about Peach's air mobility being below average. Yes Peach can levitate briefly, but being more mobile in the air could help her out a bit more. I'm not asking for her air speed to be at top 5 levels like in Melee, but maybe more around Greninja's air speed value.

Then again, increasing Peach's air speed too much could make her off-stage edge-guarding game more lethal than it is already.