The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Keep Meta Knight the way he is.

As we never got a chance to discuss her, ar we allowed to vote for ? If so, I vote . If not, I vote

I think everyone else is going to be discussed before Corrin and Bayonetta get the spotlight.

 

[L9999]

Has Cloud been discussed yet. Because he makes no sense from a balance standpoint.

 

[Zerp]

Has Cloud been discussed yet. Because he makes no sense from a balance standpoint.

Yeah, we did him a while ago. I'll edit in the page number once I find it. Edit: We did him on page 13, but your welcome to discuss him at anytime.

Keep Meta Knight the way he is.

As we never got a chance to discuss her, ar we allowed to vote for ? If so, I vote . If not, I vote

Nah, we're going to rate her and Corrin after we're done with everyone else.

Here's Metty's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1nP_SmS3HHajSYheosRi5ahjZzPr_vHUGuzNKW1szwY4/viewanalytics
Here is Ryu's poll http://goo.gl/forms/X0N9XVk3W7
*Insert random gibberish about characters here*
Edit: Removed Mario because I'm a idiot

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I've got nothing for Ryu, since I never bothered to purchase him. What really turns me away from using him is the attack commands that you have to input to make his attacks pack a bigger punch.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It'd be cool if he could cancel his Shoryuken and Hadouken with a Focus Attack like in SFIV in exchange for, like 7%, but that would definitely be broken up and down.

I do think that Ryu needs a damage reduction on some of his moves. Comebacks with him and against him are ridiculous when he can take over half your stock in one combo.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I think the only thing keeping him in check is the input moves. They take longer to execute, you can get interrupted while you do them, whatever whatever. He'd be above average without them still and quite broken if he only had them.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is an amazing character that can do tons given the right player. He's close to top tier in my mind, but nerfing anything about him would hurt him way too much, so no nerfs. I would prefer him to be amazing if people trained with him, anyways.

Voting for . (Changed vote because Mario has been discussed.)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I've got nothing for Ryu, since I never bothered to purchase him. What really turns me away from using him is the attack commands that you have to input to make his attacks pack a bigger punch.

Well...To be fair (If Facing Right) (Strong side special), (Strong hadoken), and or (for Focus Attack) are pretty easy. The only ones you have to practice are (Multi hit Hadoken) and (Strong Shoryuken). Once you got those you're golden...Well...You still have to learn how to play the character as a whole but you know what I mean.

 

[Nexin]

I think the only thing keeping him in check is the input moves. They take longer to execute, you can get interrupted while you do them, whatever whatever. He'd be above average without them still and quite broken if he only had them.

The inputs aren't really that much of an issue for him honestly. While it is true that they take a bit longer to execute than just pressing the b button, there are a massive number of opportunities to buffer the inputs while Ryu is in the middle of his other animations (running, dropping shield, end lag of attacks, etc), so they don't have that much of an effect on when his moves come out in the long run.

Really what keeps Ryu in check is his high committal mobility, his vulnerability to being zoned out, and his lack of universally good moves for the neutral.

Edit: I'll vote Ness since I'm familiar with him.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Almost forgot, voting Mario.

Well...To be fair (If Facing Right) (Strong side special), (Strong hadoken), and or (for Focus Attack) are pretty easy. The only ones you have to practice are (Multi hit Hadoken) and (Strong Shoryuken). Once you got those you're golden...Well...You still have to learn how to play the character as a whole but you know what I mean.

Shakunetsus really aren't that hard. It's just a half circle.

Edit: Wait a minute, we already did Mario. Voting Clefairy.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Zerp You should remove Mario from the list of candidates as we've already discussed him.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Almost forgot, voting Mario.

Shakunetsus really aren't that hard. It's just a half circle.

Edit: Wait a minute, we already did Mario. Voting Clefairy.

It's only hard because Ryu turns around if you don't do it fast enough (Which usually causes it to trigger his Side Special instead.). If this was in an arcade combat style it would be much easier.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It's only hard because Ryu turns around if you don't do it fast enough (Which usually causes it to trigger his Side Special instead.). If this was in an arcade combat style it would be much easier.

Well yeah, he's going to turn around if the input involves you holding back. Tatsumaki is a quarter circle backwards, so I don't see how you'd get those mixed up, unless you're trying to do a Shakunetsu facing left, which is actually kind of annoying.
Granted, I play Street Fighter, so maybe I have an easier time doing the inputs.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well yeah, he's going to turn around if the input involves you holding back. Tatsumaki is a quarter circle backwards, so I don't see how you'd get those mixed up, unless you're trying to do a Shakunetsu facing left, which is actually kind of annoying.
Granted, I play Street Fighter, so maybe I have an easier time doing the inputs.

Nope. I try using Shakunetsu while facing right, Ryu turns around, and I got Tatsumakiing to the left.

My only exposure to arcade battle controls is MVC3, but I don't play often. Probably because type inputs are the death of me. I should try it again. (It's the only game I'm ever going to be able to play Amaterasu in anyway.)

 

[Nexin]

It's only hard because Ryu turns around if you don't do it fast enough (Which usually causes it to trigger his Side Special instead.). If this was in an arcade combat style it would be much easier.

Shakunatsu hadoukan is actually pretty easy. It was the first input that I was able to do consistently back when I was learning how to use Ryu. It just comes down to just getting used to the speed of the input in a real match so the game doesn't assume you were trying to turn around when you weren't.

The hardest input in my opinion is Tatsu (quarter circle back), not because it is difficult to do when you actually want it, but it is the easiest one to misinput into when you were trying to do something else. There have been many Ryu players, myself included, that sded because that came out instead of fastfall bair back when they were still getting used to his controls.

 

[GerudoKong]

How can you guys think Cloud is OK as is... I mean I played the character 30 minutes in training mode and I can already go ham on half the people at my locals. With proper spacing hardly anything is punishable without perfect shielding.

 

[Zerp]

Zerp You should remove Mario from the list of candidates as we've already discussed him.

Oh wow, I feel so stupid for not noticing that, thanks for pointing that out, I really didn't notice that, my bad.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Almost forgot, voting Mario.

Shakunetsus really aren't that hard. It's just a half circle.

Edit: Wait a minute, we already did Mario. Voting Clefairy.

That's what everyone says. And then I try it and can't do it and feel stupid.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Shakunatsu hadoukan is actually pretty easy. It was the first input that I was able to do consistently back when I was learning how to use Ryu. It just comes down to just getting used to the speed of the input in a real match so the game doesn't assume you were trying to turn around when you weren't.

The hardest input in my opinion is Tatsu (quarter circle back), not because it is difficult to do when you actually want it, but it is the easiest one to misinput into when you were trying to do something else. There have been many Ryu players, myself included, that sded because that came out instead of fastfall bair back when they were still getting used to his controls.

Really, the reason why Shakunetsu isn't that hard is because you really don't have much reason to use it over fierce Hadouken. I mean, sometimes it's better, but others, like the Bowser matchup, it's actually worse.
I think the hardest input is fierce Shoryuken (given that none of my characters in Street Fighter use the Shoryuken motion). The easiest for me is probably fierce Tatsumaki, but that's probably because I do it by accident all the time.

How can you guys think Cloud is OK as is... I mean I played the character 30 minutes in training mode and I can already go ham on half the people at my locals. With proper spacing hardly anything is punishable without perfect shielding.

Hit him with one move offstage and he becomes Little Mac 0.5.

 

[Zerp]

I personally feel like Ryu's at that point where a bit of wing clippings justified, I don't feel like he's over centralizing or whatnot, but unfortunately, he's above the line, and I want standardized buffs/nerfs.
Here's Ryu's results: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17cYMlXQ02O-rYd2x7QsQujBADX-tF0sCSMVmADEGAGE/viewanalytics
And here's Ness's poll: http://goo.gl/forms/wdsNsJmcJi
Here's the fellas you can vote for.

 

[Green Zelda]

I feel like there should be at slight nerf to his back throw (and maybe a small universal nerf to the kill throws
behind it, to make it stay the best?)

Voting for !

 

[Deleted member]

Ness needs no nerfs. He's fine the way he is.

I vote for .

 

[MarioMeteor]

Nerf that goddamn back throw and give his up air more landing lag so he can't fall with it as mindlessly.

Still voting Clefairy.

 

[Furret24]

I've been killed by Ness' bthrow as early as 70% on FD before. Surely it's not too unreasonable to decrease it's growth. Uair knockback decrease would be nice too, considering how fast and safe it is, though it's not really nesscessary.

I vote

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ness sure got a lucky break in Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U. His recovery is still quite vulnerable if anyone gets in PK Thunder's path though.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is finally a good character in this game! I feel the back throw is a BIT ridiculous, but nothing that breaks him.

Voting .

 

[Wintermelon43]

I vote

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ness sure got a lucky break in Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U. His recovery is still quite vulnerable if anyone gets in PK Thunder's path though.

Or nonexistent if he is fighting Rosalina & Luma.

(given that none of my characters in Street Fighter use the Shoryuken motion).

Really? I thought Capcom loved that button imput. (Just about every character in MVC 3 has it.)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Or nonexistent if he is fighting Rosalina & Luma.

Rosalina does have to time Gravitational Pull just right so that PK Thunder doesn't hit Ness. Otherwise, he could still have a chance of recovering.

 

[MockRock]

I always hear about Ness being a great character, but eh... I'm not so sure. Every tournament I've watched with a Ness player tends to end badly for him, even great ones like FOW. Sheik and Villager deal with him so easily, and Rosalina single handedly makes him unviable as a solo main. Sigh...

 

[L9999]

Time to talk Ness.
Fix an inconsistency with PKT wallbouncing on the left walls.
Do something about Dair. Either it hits like a truck like in Brawl, or have less start up to make up for how weak and short ranged it is.

The 2nd is mostly wishful thinking, and peopel usually says "Ebola Back Throw needs no buffs!" But then we have comments like MockRock 's.

As for the controversial moves that everyone hates:
PK Fire: Learn to SDI, don't be lazy. PK Fire is sluggish too. It needs no additional lag.
PK Thunder 2: Learn the timings and learn to tech the walls and you won't die. If you got mindgamed by it on stage then there is no escape.
Uair: Was already nerfed in landing lag from Brawl. And for power nerfs, almost every character has that one strong all purpose aerial or killer Uairs, even low tiers. Stop complaining.
Back Throw: It has always been strong. IMO it is the only thing keeping Ness relevant/allows Ness to clutch out all his MUs.

 

[Green Zelda]

Time to talk Ness.
Fix an inconsistency with PKT wallbouncing on the left walls.
Do something about Dair. Either it hits like a truck like in Brawl, or have less start up to make up for how weak and short ranged it is.

The 2nd is mostly wishful thinking, and peopel usually says "Ebola Back Throw needs no buffs!" But then we have comments like MockRock 's.

As for the controversial moves that everyone hates:
PK Fire: Learn to SDI, don't be lazy. PK Fire is sluggish too. It needs no additional lag.
PK Thunder 2: Learn the timings and learn to tech the walls and you won't die. If you got mindgamed by it on stage then there is no escape.
Uair: Was already nerfed in landing lag from Brawl. And for power nerfs, almost every character has that one strong all purpose aerial or killer Uairs, even low tiers. Stop complaining.
Back Throw: It has always been strong. IMO it is the only thing keeping Ness relevant/allows Ness to clutch out all his MUs.

I've heard a lot of people talk about SDI. What's the difference between it and normal DI?

 

[L9999]

I've heard a lot of people talk about SDI. What's the difference between it and normal DI?

SDI is a series of multiple inputs in a direction to get out of a multihit move. Depending on how many SDI multipliers the move has, it dictates how easy it is to escape. Example, you get caught by Kamui's rapid jab. If you mash the control stick diagonally up and you are capable to jump out after that mashing you SDIed correctly. Some moves are not worth SDIing or are impossible like Bayonetta's rapid jab. DI is a single input to alter direction after being hit by a single hit move.

 

[MacSmitty]

Ness doesn't need any nerfs, especially a back throw nerf.
I do want his Brawl down air though.

 

[Zerp]

Personally, I think Ness is fine as is, I don't see any need to change him.
Here's Ness's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Au9uzFQigytkANoTtH0Kp_Y4riHnYEsEB9IXav5ebbs/viewanalytics
And here's Diddy Kong's poll http://goo.gl/forms/T5ZXFmI3Sv
are the guys, gals, and robots you can vote for today.

Also, just a fun fact, apparently Diddy Kong's the only Smash character not created in Japan. Isn't that cool?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I can't really say much for Diddy Kong, so I'll be passing on him.

Anyway, I vote for Wario; .

 

[wedl!!]

This character is in a perfect spot ATM. Very healthy high tier character.

Voting for .

 

[Furret24]

I can't really say anything about Diddy. He's fine as is.

I vote .

 

[Wintermelon43]

I vote

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

is a great character even after the nerfs, and he honestly doesn't deserve any more. He's a very well balanced character and no longer overwhelming in the meta.

Voting .