The Unofficial Super Smash Bros Balancing Committee- Anything and everything!

[Green Zelda]

Just to be clear, the top tier characters are sheik, ZSS, and rosaluma ONLY, right?

Voting for the alpha clone, Dark Pit!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just to be clear, the top tier characters are sheik, ZSS, and rosaluma ONLY, right?

Rosalina is very debatable, since her weaknesses are not negligible at all.

 

[Zerp]

Just to be clear, the top tier characters are sheik, ZSS, and rosaluma ONLY, right?

Voting for the alpha clone, Dark Pit!

Those three are commonly seen as the current top tier, although as pointed out by Mario & Sonic Guy , Rosalina's very, VERY, VERY debatable. Sometimes people just drop Rosalina altogether from the tier, and sometimes they add another character to it either after Rosalina or replacing her, usually either Ryu, Sonic, or Pikachu from what I've seen. I personally think Rosalina's in her own borderline zone in-between the top and upper-high tiers, close enough so she's counted as top tier, while still not at the exact same level as Sheik and ZSS. Overall though, the general consensus seems to either be that Sheik, Zero Suit Samus and Rosaluma are the current top tier or that's it just Sheik and Zero Suit Samus without Rosaluma. I don't know which is the more popular chain of thought, I think 's slightly more popular than the other, but I'm not sure. I don't know.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Fox is a high practice, high reward character. He has lots of setups that are almost true when practiced, but they are so odd that it will take awhile to practice them. However, once mastered, they become high damaging and highly deadly. His main problem is approaching, as his aerials are punishable on shield and his only projectile doesn't flinch. He's still a great character, though, and definitely top 15 if not top 10.

Voting for Pittoo.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Fox is fine, yes, and very good, but I think he's at the bottom of top 10. He's no Melee Fox, that's for sure.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Fox's voice needs a buff.

Just to be clear, the top tier characters are sheik, ZSS, and rosaluma ONLY, right?

Voting for the alpha clone, Dark Pit!

I consider her top tier, but as others have said, very debatable. I think it is generally agreed that she is top 5, though.

Voting Ryu again.

 

[L9999]

Fox is fine. On the subject of Rosalina, she is totally top tier. She invalidates or beats really hard a lot of characters to not be top tier. She gatekeeps more characters than freaking Sheik and ZSS.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I vote for

 

[Zerp]

I believe Fox is high tier and doesn't need any buffs, whether he needs nerfs or not is debatable, I'd personally slightly nerf him, not that I think he's as worthy of nerfs as Sheik or anything, but I feel like the current upper high tier also could use some slight nerfs. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

Either way, here's Fox's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1dgu2E9OQTEtt2Sv-kfjZ3Sq2hU-Vp97ChGWyQccXYsc/viewanalytics
And the character that won the poll today is...


MAREEP!

Oh what's that you say? Nobody voted for Mareep...?
Too bad, it's international Mareep day because I said so, therefore, Mareep wins.
Here's Mareep's poll http://goo.gl/forms/kSlnbiFwdQ
Despite Mareep's current SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS+ Tier placement, I think she/he needs buffs.

















I'm just kidding, Dark Pit won, here's his poll http://goo.gl/forms/4Ub2tTiSmI

Here's the people you can vote for
I vote for Sheik.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mareep isn't even in Smash Bros. in any form.

Jokes aside, I can't think of much that needs fixing for Dark Pit. If anything, any changes that Pit needs should also apply to Dark Pit.

 

[Green Zelda]

Finally, pittoo! Here are a few suggestions:

Could the range of his up smash be at least a little larger? It's hard to hit opponents on the ground (even tall ones sometimes), so i sometimes have to resort to using utilt.

None of the following are needed, but they'd be pretty cool:
Increased airspeed (just a bit)
Increased (air) jump height.

All in all, the pits are pretty balanced characters in this game, and don't really need that much changing.

 

[Dusk Pit]

-up smash definitely needs fixing as the hitbox doesn't match the sword trail at all.
-if Ftilt is gonna stay weaker than Pit's then at least it should be less laggier to allow combos. Or just make it similar to Pit's.

I have of course more but those are the most reasonable changes I can come up with.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Since it's obvious Ryu isn't going to win, I vote for Sheik.

 

[FamilyTeam]

MAke his damn recovery snap on to the ledge mroe consistently.
Oh, yes, fix his Up Samsh as well, what the hell where they thinking with that hitbox.

 

[L9999]

Up Tlit and Up Smash having more horizontal range. Drastically reduced sluggishness in Dark Pit's side tilt. And tweaks to active frames so the hitboxes match the animations.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Voting for the top tier herself, .

still needs some tweaking to be a serious threat, though other people have pretty much said most of them. In short, fixing some hitboxes like U-smash and making F-tilt have a use would make him a great contender in the meta. He's still good at the moment, though, so these fixes aren't crucial.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Dark Pit needs a moveset revamp for uniqueness, but that isn't happening anytime soon, so I don't really have any suggestions.

 

[Zerp]

I think Dark Pit's perfect balance wise, don't see any need to buff or nerf him (that's a good thing).
Here's his results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1baxc6cxbsTeQwJsl7OgmmHhdNnwzMMDUTXMt267IgUM/viewanalytics and here's the one you've all been waiting for, Sheik's poll http://goo.gl/forms/Etu2VPmr3S
Today's definitely going to be a interesting one.

Also, here's the people you can vote.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sheik feels too overpowered at certain areas. First off, her air speed has never been above average in Melee, nor in Brawl, and frankly, that air speed increase is part of the reason for her high dominance. That air speed really needs to be nerfed down to about 0.88 (Link's air speed), if anything.

Also, as a fighter who focuses more on combos and damage building, Sheik's weaker direct attacks need to have less knockback so that they'll be easier to punish. Maybe make it so that fighters who have a weight value greater than 110 cannot flinch from her weak hits. This in return, can make approaching fighters like Ganondorf and Charizard more dangerous for Sheik, because you can try to use your standard attack combos, but they can still retaliate right back with their own standard attacks, a smash attack, or even a grab.

The Needles should also have their knockback weakened so that they can't be abused for edge-guarding.

I wish that I could bring up more, but the overall story is that Sheik definitely needs to be nerfed at certain areas.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Sheik's honestly a bit ridiculous and she only gets worse the more you think about her. Although I'd honestly rather have Smash 4 Sheik than Brawl Sheik, it still would be nice if the devs showed that they knew atleast a little bit about balance. This is their 4th Smash game and we still have glaring mistakes like her.
I think I'd start by making her neddles charge slower, make them deal less damage and have next to no knockback. After that, making Boucning Fish have less range and knockback growth would also help a bit. Finally, uou could maybe make her run a little slower. I wouldn't mess with ehr air speed because, frankly, that kind of seems like Sheik's character in Smash 4. Sure, it wasn't the case earlier, but it is now.

 

[Furret24]

Honestly, I don't mind Sheik that much, though that's probably because I've never fought one that good.

I think Needles should overall be a little slower. Fair should have a less insane autocancel window as well. They're both such spammable moves at this point in time.

That's about all that's necessary to me, though lowering the knockback on Vanish and Bouncing Fish wouldn't hurt either.

I vote .

 

[Wintermelon43]

SOMETHING of Sheik should be nerfed, but idk. Probably needles or F-air.

Gonna keep voting for until it happens

 

[Columbidae]

Her down throw's knockback scaling should be increased so that her 50/50 kill confirm wouldn't work. It would give her one actual weakness.

Also, Vanish should have less invicibility frames so edgeguarding her would be somewhat possible.

Needles are also problematic, but honestly, I'm not sure how they should be changed.

Voting for .

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Like what others have said, F-air and Needles are her most ridiculous elements. I feel that Bouncing Fish should be a bit less safe to use, but that's just me.

Voting for .

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As someone who is awful with Shiek, I can't tell you the first thing about her.

I vote for .

 

[MarioMeteor]

Nerf her



NERF HER



NERF HER.

It's nerf or nothing. First of all, give her forward air more ending and landing lag and increase the base knockback and knockback scaling on forward tilt. Lastly, make it so that her Needles only inflict stun and not knockback. With that, she just might be balanced.

I vote Mario.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Personally, I think she's alright the way she is.
I would just weaken her recovery, give the air version of bouncing fish 25 or 30 more frames of end lag, and 4 more frames on both the start up & end lag on Vanish.

That might be a bit much but you get the idea.

 

[Zerp]

Here's Sheik's results, and if I'm not mistaken, this is our first character with unanimous votes to nerf. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1xqQfCfIb7cJ_NwPTy10iHfGklZPWo2o2vxIK87RHGMc/viewanalytics

And here's Yoshi's poll http://goo.gl/forms/i0yoGGDDzH

Here's the fine individuals you can vote for.

(Also, on the off chance Cleffa or Shaq win, we'll just have a free day, where there's no focus and we just talk on whatever character we want to, even the ones we already did.)

 

[MarioMeteor]

Give his jab, forward air, and up smash more ending lag. It is annoying to no end fighting a Yoshi that throws out 15 moves per second.

Voting Clefairy, cause Wynaut.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Yes, the REAL good dinosaur won.

Yoshi I think needs no buffs, although I think making his recovery a little better would be useful.

(Btw, I have to say, I like Yoshi's weight in smash better than his weight in Mario Kart)

I vote for

(Also, should be april fools day since they change everyone's avatar to him)

 

[Furret24]

I find Yoshi to be an overrated character. His horrible Grab and Throw game alone keep him from being high tier, if his killing issues didn't already justify that.

Spoiler

Is it too much to ask for atleast one grab and one throw that isn't completely terrible? All of his grabs have less range than every tether grab, yet have more lag than virtually every other grab in the game (both Dash and Pivot grab have 45+ frames of endlag while his Standing grab doesn't come out until frame 14). What's worse is that all of his throws are borderline useless. Atleast Pac-Man has an okay kill throw while Villager has both a combo throw and a Top 3 kill throw. All Yoshi has are laggy throws that deal pitiful damage while having no kill power or combo potential. Even just having Brawl Pivot Grab and/or a throw that either kills before 200% or can setup into kills would do wonders for him.

Outside of that, I think Yoshi is a fine character.

I vote .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yoshi is much better now than in the past Smash Bros. installments. He still has problems with his grabs, however. Of course, it's not like Yoshi needs his grabs to go crazy against his opponents, but grab improvements could help with his combat diversity.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Yoshi is fine as he is. He has some of the best frame data for how useful many of his moves are, but his vertical recovery and grab are lacking to make up for it. He's not exactly "balanced", but he does have glaring flaws to make up for his great strengths.

Voting for .

 

[Zerp]

I kinda want to nerf Yoshi into oblivion, but I'm convinced that's just my personal bias speaking ('s match-up against him is like the worst thing ever), so I didn't vote for nerfs and I don't think he needs any nerfs, although I feel like he probably deserves a few, I'd probably be happy actually if he got nerfed, but once again, that's mostly my bias.


Here's Yoshi's results https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1BqBtfJlKj8xBTDyfnpFFfeiOhIWD03FpzpqbGzUHG0M/viewanalytics

And here's Meta Knight's poll http://goo.gl/forms/Zdgnd2kPQ9

And here's the mentlegen you can vote for.

 

[Furret24]

Meta Knight is a great character that's fine as is.

I vote: 4 ryu : .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

My main complaint with Meta Knight is his air speed increase after Brawl. He has multiple ways to make a successful recovery, so even if his air speed was as poor as Ganondorf's air speed, he could still make it back onto the stage quite easily.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

My main complaint with Meta Knight is his air speed increase after Brawl. He has multiple ways to make a successful recovery, so even if his air speed was as poor as Ganondorf's air speed, he could still make it back onto the stage quite easily.

You forget that his fall speed is high, his jump height is quite short, his recovery moves all have their weaknesses (Neutral B goes far horizontally, but he must recover high with it because it doesn't snap to the ledge well; side B goes far diagonally, but it's the laggiest of his options and if mistimed will go past the ledge; up B quickly goes high, but has almost no horizontal; and down B is the sneakiest but goes the shortest of them all), and you can only use one of them at a time. He has a great recovery, but definitely worse than , who could glide really far and then still jump and use a move afterward.

With that said, is fine as he is. He has troubles approaching, but his damage racking and combo ability well make up for it without being too easy-bake (s.f. ).

Voting .

 

[MarioMeteor]

Nothing wrong with Batman. He's balanced enough as is. I wish Galaxia's sound effects weren't so ****ty, though.

I kinda want to nerf Yoshi into oblivion,

You're not the only one.

Since he finally got a vote, voting Ryu.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Keep Meta Knight the way he is.

As we never got a chance to discuss her, ar we allowed to vote for ? If so, I vote . If not, I vote

 

[L9999]

Late to Sheik/Yoshi party, soI'll give my insights.
Sheik: Have her needles don't pop you off the ground. Fair having a tougher autocancel window. Grenades not sending Sheik to helpless. (I know it is Sheik, but admit it is a stupid design).

Yoshi: Brawl Pivot Grab back, Brawl Bair back and Dair spiking again. I know Yoshi is really hated, but he is not as good as they hype him up to be. And he was already nerfed in lag in the first patch.

I vote Ness.