The Ultimate Smash Bros. 4 Character Analysis Topic. (Retro Characters Analysis Is Up!)

[ChronoBound]

I think all your essays so far have been excellent so far, ChronoBound.

One question, though. The recent Nintendo Direct showed off some upcoming DLC for Pikmin 3, featuring Louie as an object to find and second controllable character. Do you think his recent reappearance could give him an edge over the Pikmin 3 protagonist should Pikmin even get a second character? Or at the very least give him a role such as an Assist Trophy?

I appreciate the complement.

As to the Pikmin 3 DLC, it has absolutely no effect on character prospects considering Sakurai has stated that he already decided the roster during E3 2013. At best, Louie being a DLC character for Pikmin 3 gives Sakurai's team a model to rip for a Louie trophy for Smash 4 Wii U.

You don't understand, though I will forgive you for being a fan of the late and great Scatman John.

I mean the focus of fans. People have kind of moved onto Ghirahim. It helps to be recognized when more people are talking about you. Zelda fans mostly look towards Ghirahim.

You misunderstood me. I said the difference between Ghirahim and Midna was that Midna had lots of other popularly requested Zelda characters to deal with, whereas Ghirahim is basically the only highly requested Zelda character this time.

Also, I am going to try and have another series analysis posted later this week. Hopefully these consecutive releases of new analyses being posted makes up for the long hiatus that went on since E3 2013.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I hope R.O.B gets confirmed in december i mean marth got confirmed for no reason besides FE13

 

[Autumn ♫]

Looking at your analysis's again. I noticed that you said Vaati's last appearance was in late 2004 in Minish Cap. Seeing how remakes seem to count for Sakurai, I think that Vaati's last appearance should be either December 2011, which was Minish Cap's 3DS ambassador or late September 2011, which was the anniversary edition to 4 Swords.

 

[Aurora Jenny]

Hey Chrono? You seem to be pretty good at analysis. I'm mostly curious at the delayed elements being held back for now as if he's waiting for particular elements elsewhere to be unveiled. Is there a reason behind this? The two main things are of course Kirby being shown in Gateway Galaxy, but the stage itself only hinted at until Rosalina's unveiling for 3D World; Pyrosphere stage unveiled with a cryptic message about an old enemy, yet no elaboration. Two questions. First, regarding Pyrosphere, whether or not Ridley is playable, a boss, or a stage hazard, what could he possibly be waiting for in holding off this information? Is there another Metroid in the works that we don't know about? Second, in all the updates, is there any other scenarios similar to Pyrosphere and Gateway Galaxy that are still being left hanging?

 

[Gallumashuwa]

Good analyse again, Chrono!

I had a question: I don't know if you noticed it too already, but olimar never uses a new pikmin that appeared in Pikmin 3 on the revealed pics, but there is a stage based on a Pikmin 3 area. So it would be strange if the 2 new types wouldn't be added, but a stage would. Maybe olimar is never showed with one because Sakurai wants to make a Pikmin 3 character that has the 2 new pikmin types (but not the 2 'old' types that came in pikmin 2 but NOT in pikmin 3 in the normal mode), so it won't be a full clone of olimar.
So you would basicly have: Olimar with red, blue, yellow, purple and white pikmin, and a Pikmin 3 character with red, blue, yellow, rock and winged pikmin.
What do you think?

 

[ChronoBound]

Another new analysis has been posted. This time its the Wario series. This is probably the last "boring" series analysis (even Kid Icarus despite having only one contender, still has a lot to talk about). However, despite being a series to discuss that is on par with Yoshi or Pikmin, the Wario series analysis was still quite extensive considering its circumstance, coming to around 1,600 words, which is not too far from the size of the Mother series analysis.

Still, I hope that some of you enjoy reading this analysis.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Can't wait for next analysis.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Great analysis as always Chrono!

Looking forward to the next one!

I predict.... Kid Icarus next!

 

[Rouge]

I really appreciate your insight.

 

[Pokeking]

Thank you Chrono for posting the Wario series. I know that it is highly unlikely that we'll have a second Wario character. I hope we get a Wario Land only stage for either version.

If I had a wish though and could have any Wario character, I would want Captain Syrup.

 

[SmashChu]

Also, I am going to try and have another series analysis posted later this week. Hopefully these consecutive releases of new analyses being posted makes up for the long hiatus that went on since E3 2013.

This is what was said.

Unlike pre-Brawl, Ghirahim is the only potential Zelda newcomer with a notable amount of requests. However, Midna too had all of those things (aside from a lack of competition), and that was not enough to get her in.

It actually looks like you contradicted yourself. You say Ghirahim has no competition which Minda did have, but then you say she DID have competition. It's very unclear.

 

[ChronoBound]

It actually looks like you contradicted yourself. You say Ghirahim has no competition which Minda did have, but then you say she DID have competition. It's very unclear.

There is a reason why I said (aside from a lack of competition) in quotations. I was saying Midna had everything going for her that Ghirahim had (most wanted Zelda character, major role in the most recently released Zelda during the game's development) ASIDE from the fact that she also had competition to deal with which Ghirahim does not have to deal with.

Like I said, you misread what I wrote.

Secondly, I am going to try and post another analysis in the next few days.

 

[Jumpman84]

Hey, ChronoBound. Another good section. I liked reading about the Wario series.

I don't mean to impose, but if you get a chance, could you add a section in the Mario series about Petey Piranha? He's a pretty good character and a boss in Brawl, so I was wondering what your thoughts were about him being in Smash 4. Will we see him return or do you think he'll be replaced by his intergalactic cousin?

I know that there are so many Mario characters that it's impossible to write up paragraphs for all of him, but this one seemed like a glaring omission, particularly with his Double Dash partner King Boo there, that I thought I should ask.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

How come Pichu is on the list of possible contender when he was one of the only two cut Melee characters that wasn't even planned in the first place, has low requests, and as far as I know doesn't have anything going on Pokemon-wise anymore?

Also, why do you think Ike and Falco are possible low-priority veterans?

 

[ChronoBound]

Okay, I brought up a real big catch this time around. I put up the Star Fox series.This is the first contentious series analysis I have posted since my Zelda one. Its also one of my longest too (its around 5,000 words). I personally think its one of my more interesting analyses since it goes into what was going on during the pre-Melee and pre-Brawl scenes.

A lot of sparks are probably going to fly though.

With all that being said, I put a lot of time and effort into this one, so I hope you that its as well received as my more comprehensive analyses such as Mario, DK, and Zelda.

I am going to be very busy for the next few weeks. So I will probably only post two new series analyses for the entire month of December unfortunately.

However, I hope having four new analyses posted within a span of four weeks has made up for the long hiatus this topic has seen since E3.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Ah, I see you have answered the Falco question in your analysis.

Great analysis, as usual.

 

[ChronoBound]

Ah, I see you have answered the Falco question in your analysis.

Great analysis, as usual.

Thanks. I appreciate your compliment.

As to your Pichu question, the reason why he is a contender is:
1. Was already playable before in Smash Bros.
2. The Pokemon Company/Game Freak has a big say in determining Pokemon content in Smash Bros., and Pichu was the the posterboy (particularly notch-eared Pichu and Pikachu-colored Pichu) of the HeartGold/SoulSilver remakes. Pichu is the personal favorite of one of main directors for the mainline Pokemon series.

None of these make Pichu likely or even 50/50, but rather make him someone that shouldn't be written off.

As for Ike, he is a possible candidate for a low-priority veteran due to the fact that he is no longer in the spotlight for the series. With Mewtwo and Roy, Sakurai was intending to bring both of them back, but they were outprioritized by Lucario and Ike who were both characters that were in the spotlight of their respective series at that time. So its possible Ike, could be outprioritized by a FE13 character (and possibly Roy) if time constraints come up. Whether Ike or Roy gets a higher priority in the event a FE13 character was chosen rests upon an assortment of possibilities and factors, some of which we have no way of knowing.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Thanks for the explanation

 

[ChronoBound]

Its funny how there was more interest in the smaller analyses I posted, than the first big one I posted in a while.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Its funny how there was more interest in the smaller analyses I posted, than the first big one I posted in a while.

You posted the analysis at three in the morning. Give it time.

Either way, nice analysis as usual.

 

[BKupa666]

The Star Fox analysis was solid, but I want to question why Falco is even a consideration to be cut. The exact same rationale was brought up pre-Brawl, that he could potentially be swapped out because he's the least unique of the Star Fox contenders, and yet, according to the game's data, he was nestled in as a prioritized character among the other Melee veterans, just like Ness, despite people thinking he too was almost definitely cut. Despite being the more unique character, it was never a consideration for Wolf to replace Falco back then, and because of that, I'm not sure why that would become the case now, especially when Wolf is the one who gets most of the undeserved flak among the fanbase for being a semi-clone.

 

[SmashChu]

There is a reason why I said (aside from a lack of competition) in quotations. I was saying Midna had everything going for her that Ghirahim had (most wanted Zelda character, major role in the most recently released Zelda during the game's development) ASIDE from the fact that she also had competition to deal with which Ghirahim does not have to deal with.

Like I said, you misread what I wrote.

Secondly, I am going to try and post another analysis in the next few days.

First, those are parentheses, not quotations. Second, you not only stick it in the middle of the sentence, but the topic of the paragraph was about Ghirahim's main advantage. In the same paragraph, you say Minda had all of those things except competitions. So it doesn't flow with the rest of the paragraph and it's just stuck in the middle of a sentence. Either way, it's very misleading how it's written now.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The Star Fox analysis was solid, but I want to question why Falco is even a consideration to be cut. The exact same rationale was brought up pre-Brawl, that he could potentially be swapped out because he's the least unique of the Star Fox contenders, and yet, according to the game's data, he was nestled in as a prioritized character among the other Melee veterans, just like Ness, despite people thinking he too was almost definitely cut. Despite being the more unique character, it was never a consideration for Wolf to replace Falco back then, and because of that, I'm not sure why that would become the case now, especially when Wolf is the one who gets most of the undeserved flak among the fanbase for being a semi-clone.

*shrugs* Circumstances may change this time around (keep in mind I don't believe Falco will be low-priority).

 

[Alban712]

Very nice analysis. I agree with everything

 

[ChronoBound]

The Star Fox analysis was solid, but I want to question why Falco is even a consideration to be cut. The exact same rationale was brought up pre-Brawl, that he could potentially be swapped out because he's the least unique of the Star Fox contenders, and yet, according to the game's data, he was nestled in as a prioritized character among the other Melee veterans, just like Ness, despite people thinking he too was almost definitely cut. Despite being the more unique character, it was never a consideration for Wolf to replace Falco back then, and because of that, I'm not sure why that would become the case now, especially when Wolf is the one who gets most of the undeserved flak among the fanbase for being a semi-clone.

I just want to leave no stone unturned. Personally, I don't see Falco getting cut, and that Wolf is the more vulnerable of the two.

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't see any of the Star Fox characters getting cut. But I suppose that Wolf has a weaker chance of making it back than Falco. Which makes sense, Falco has been around longer. Though I feel Wolf is the more unique of the two.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I hope if it comes to it that only one of Falco and Wolf can make a return, that Falco returns and Wolf is cut.

I'm not a big fan of the series (I've only played Starfox Adventures) but in terms of smash a Falco with an updated move set appeals to me more than Wolf who honestly I didn't know much about until brawl.

Pre brawl I was a big supporter of Krystal but I don't care for her much anymore....probably because the last time I played a game with her in it was her GameCube debut.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Although I agree that wolf is probably the more vulnerable between the two, I have to admit, If we were given a clean slate, I personally would probably put Fox and Wolf on the roster before I added Falco. It just makes more sense to me.

 

[Rouge]

It's funny what you said about the furry alienation towards Krystal. Pre-Brawl I was one of the biggest Wolf supporters and I was overthrilled when he got that last spot. He was my main until I realized that Wario was just too fun. Then the furries ruined Wolf for me. -___- The furries ruin everything.

But I still want Wolf to return, with a new Final Smash for sure. It's weird that they would design a completely unique moveset for him (with semi-cloned specials), but they would keep the Landmaster even though it simply made no sense for Wolf to have one. I don't know, they should have Wolf jump on his Wolfen and throw bombs all over the stage. ANYTHING! Gah.

I was also hoping that they would drop Falco for Krystal as the third character, but I figure it was simpler to keep Falco. I definitely think that Krystal has no shot now. If she couldn't get in at the height of her relevance, she's got no chance now that SF64 is the only SF game that seems to matter.

Great analysis.

 

[Jumpman84]

Terrific analysis, ChronoBound. One minor thing that I noticed is that Slippy also appeared in one of Snake's Codecs on Shadow Moses Island in Brawl.

I wanted to ask if it's okay to use your analysis for roster making. I'm unfamiliar with some of the franchises in Smash and your analysis of who's likely from each one would help me tremendously.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

For fun/because I'm insane, I put together a roster of all the potential characters Chrono listed. All 80+ of them. I have created a monster.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Will you be able to do an analysis on all potential retro characters?

 

[Kapus]

The only thing that makes that roster monstrous is the way it's organized.

 

[Pokeking]

Thank you for posting the Star Fox series analysis. I think that Star Fox representation is likely to be shortened by one. Fox and either Falco or Wolf.

It would be nice to have four Star Fox characters with Krystal using the staff. Her default appearance can be based on Adventures, Assault's four colors, Commandm and Kursed.

 

[Deleted member]

Dunno if it was stated before, but when I see the Mother's Other Characters list, I honestly think it lacks Giygas (Mother 1 form, with the Mother 2's one which may be a Final Smash).

 

[ChronoBound]

Terrific analysis, ChronoBound. One minor thing that I noticed is that Slippy also appeared in one of Snake's Codecs on Shadow Moses Island in Brawl.

I wanted to ask if it's okay to use your analysis for roster making. I'm unfamiliar with some of the franchises in Smash and your analysis of who's likely from each one would help me tremendously.

That is fine by me. However, keep in mind that at least half of the newcomer "contenders" are probably going to make it in (this is especially evident for series with lots of plausible contenders such as Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon). Smash 4 will most likely have less newcomers than Brawl did.

I would not be surprised if we end up with less than 10 newcomers this time around (not counting returning cut veterans such as Mewtwo/Roy).

On a sidenote, I have been reading various developer statements about the future of the F-Zero series, and it definitely makes me think that series may be just as "concluded" as Mother is. At least we were able to get a masterpiece such as F-Zero GX. Definitely an overlooked gem, and a contender for the best racing game of all time.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Looks like Skull Kid was just deconfirmed.

 

[ChronoBound]

Looks like Skull Kid was just deconfirmed.

Going to have to edit him out now. I am thinking Majora's Mask 3D could very well be in development. I guess we will find out during E3 2014.

The announced return of Assist Trophies now is going to make de-confirmations more common place.

 

[Deleted member]

@ChronoBound : You haven't answered to my question concerning Giygas as an other candidate to the other Mother characters.

 

[Aurora Jenny]

I wonder, Chrono. Not that you have to, but are you going to include your thoughts on potential Assist Trophies?