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Well I mean what about 3DS tournaments that those people could've joined? I mean I know there's different stages and having to use the 3DS as a controler but same character engine so experience? I guess?The amount of people who said they never attend tournaments...
Suddenly I care less about these results.
Fighting against a Villager attempting to camp the ledge with the Explosive Balloon Trip and Counter Tree customs may be difficult, but if you abuse some of Villager's other weaknesses, or the holes in the strategy, you can come out on top.
Overview
From our discussion, the most important thing to do while fighting this setup is to get the percent lead and force him to approach. (Luckily this is the same strategy that works on normal defensive Villagers, as his approach game isn't that strong.)
Dealing with the Strategy
- Get the Percent Lead and force Villager to approach
- If Villager's strategy is to win by timeout, he has to be ahead in percent to do so. If you get the percent lead, he is then forced off the ledge, and you can punish his (far weaker) approach game.
- You can gain the percent lead by using a number of strategies
- Using a Disjointed/Invincible attack to hit Villager (without popping the balloons)
- Using an arcing (Diddy's Peanuts, Yoshi's Eggs, Mario's Fireballs), angled (Sheik's Needles), or downwards (MegaMan's Dair, Sonic's Spring - this also pops 1 balloon, which can stop recovery!) projectile to hit Villager on the ledge
- Watch out for Pocket, though!
- Attack Villager from the weak spots in his camping: directly above and below him
- the only thing that covers these spots well is his Uair and Dair turnips, but they're laggy and therefore punishable if you can bait them out
- Ledge Trump Villager into a punish (Damage is all you really need)
- Wait out the Trip Sapling, then punish Villager on the ledge
- Once the trip tree is gone, Villager is either forced to come back onto the stage to re-plant the tree or leave a gaping hole in his defenses
- If the Villager comes up to the stage, he's then vulnerable to attacks.
- There is also a delay between the sapling being planted and the trip hitbox actually appearing, so you can punish this!
- If the Villager doesn't come back to the stage to refresh the tree, he's then very vulnerable on the ledge.
- For most characters, the easiest way to punish a vulnerable Villager on the ledge is Dsmash (release it as Villager grabs the ledge). The Dsmash should trade with a balloon (5%) and hit Villager (for more than 5%, hopefully), also likely stage-spiking him. While it is Villager (with Villager's recovery...), the stage-spike will kill much earlier than the balloons will.
- Dsmash doesn't work for characters with high-hitting Dsmashes (Captain Falcon/Ganondorf, for example). Dairs generally work well as a substitute for this, however. Some character's Dtilts (like Captain Falcon) or angled-down Fsmashes (such as Wario) work for this too.
- Ledge trumping becomes a much easier option once the sapling is gone, as well
- Beat the strategy before it begins
- Pick a stage where the strategy doesn't work, such as Delphino Plaza, Skyloft, Wuhu Island, Castle Siege, and even Halberd to a lesser extent. The idea is that if the ledges go away, he can't camp them.
- Gimp Villager with a Windbox
- Explosive Balloon Trip only grabs the ledge after the apex of the jump after the balloons are popped
- This lets you take a kill incredibly easily, but only some characters have access to these types of moves.
Further StrategiesAlso, there are a number of characters who can beat this strategy incredibly easily. This tactic does not require a character-switch by any means, however if you're a player of one of these characters it may be easier to deal with it with them.
Some suggested characters are
Oh, and apparently XXX2
Video References
Reference: Full DiscussionStarting Post -> Ending Post
We are talking about the same thing a EBT and TS Villager. You are also defeating your own point by saying that is broken and then pointing out that there is a viable strategy in Pikachu. If you are talking about Jtails then I know for a fact that was the first time he used Pikachu in tourney so he got a free win for adapting. Also in that same tournement @Jigglymaster or Dapuffster beat Villager with Mii Brawler.There are many ways to defeat this strategy I have a game plan as Ness to beat it so I will never lose to it. Here is @NinjaLink 's twitch http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink/profile where he has in his past broadcasts show how this strategy can be beaten with every character. Also you didn't answer my question what have YOU done to adapt and come up with a counter play.
'd by based TNT
I want it legalized too. Only problem I could see were the walk-offs, and it could also be a *little* too big. But those are both problems I see in Delfino, and that's legal.
I have never seen an example of pillars being abused by anyone or any character. All of walkoff transformations are solved by doing one thing: NOT GOING TO THE WALKOFF IF YOUR OPPONENT IS THERE! Seriously they are not permanent and if you die early then it is your fault.
Yeah Larry's always stirring up stuff, but debate is to be expected whenever rulesets are up for discussion. In fact I welcome disagreement as long as we respect each other.
"THATS BANNED ALREADY"
While it may have you need to know more about your character, the point that the stage simply makes gameplay completely different on the stage than any other stage in the game makes it ban worthy. Why is this the case?
It's the most FD omega. It's a platform with a ball at the bottom. Some people whine about the flashes in FD, so some TOs have a rule that Omega Palutena's can be substituted. The next closest is Omega Skyworld, which is pretty much the same but the ball has gone flat.
personnaly. I think all Customs should be perfectly legal. Except probalmatic ones, those should be banned.Aw, only Custom moves No. 1,1,1,1 for the Mii Fighters? Well that's gonna suck, but ok then.
About Luigi's mansion, I believe its banned solely because of all the caves of life, meaning people would live to hugely high %s
I completely agree with that. Neutral stages can be designed and if agreed to by TO's or most players it can add many more stages.
How is different gameplay banworthy? It's GAMEPLAY. Adapting to different situations and knowledge of stages, characters, and strategys are staples of Smash. On PS2 the better player will always win the stage does not change the outcome itself the player's knowledge of the stage and their skill. Transformations only last for 30 seconds and most of the match is played on the glorious neutral stage. Also Ice and Wind promote air play and require a different mental approach whenever I gentleman people to this stage and Ice comes up I destroy them because I know how to move. PS2 to me is the greatest stage for testing a players ability to adapt and use the stage to their advantage one of the greatest things a Smasher can do.
It's not as bad as in Brawl or Melee, where you could be chain thrown off the ledge, but walkoffs are still pretty bad. They promote camping and sometimes require the player to make a tech off ground they can't see or die from their opponent's dash attack.
Yeah that's totally what I said. You can tell by the fact that I said I am "generally in favor of customs."
The problem with equipment is that there is no way for every one to have the same sets. It would be a logistical nightmare and no one would be able to even agree on standard sets for each character. And coupling it with custom moves would also be nearly impossible to agree on. Please give reasons for your opinion or it means nothing.
Love your sarcasm here! Gold, baby.
Pilotwings is a little iffy, but I'm highly in favor of Wuhu Island. The planes I think promote to much camping and defensive play not only on the lower level, but also because of the divider between the two wings.
Woah man don't make generalizations like that I wholeheartedly think that Mewtwo not having customs is stupid and that it's unfair to him. But it's also equally unfair to all the other characters with customs to be unable to use theirs. The way you worded your post made it sound like all characters should be brought down to Mewtwos level. I agree with your other points though.
I just don't think custom move sets should be a thing in standard Smash 4 tourneys if you're going to allow custom moves I say allow all customization in some sort of side "for fun" kind of event as someone else mentioned before if the current status of Mewtwo customs is an indication of more DLC characters following and not having custom moves it would be kind of disappointing for anyone who plays any DLC character to not have any options for custom move sets in a tournament that allows custom moves for everyone else. Also, I just decided to share my opinion, my opinion may differ from yours on the legality of customs and it may mean nothing to you and in turn your opinion may mean nothing to me everyone is entitled to their own opinion
lol Xyro. Btw I haven't thanked you for all the work you do on Samus's meta game. I learned a lot from you back when I mained Samus. But I dropped her for Ness because I just couldn't click with her and Ness is also better. Keep up the good work and the attitude!
You are very welcome and i do not blame you at all for dropping Samus for a much better character. When lucas comes out, i may be switching too. I love her to death and i do pretty well with her but Smash 4 is so cut and dry that there is very little hope of her climbing the ladder.
Yeah man to each his own I can respect that attitude. I don't view custom moves as 'a fun side event' but as playing my character to their maximum potential. I participated in an online customs off tourney a few weeks ago and the whole time I was thinking "Wow if only I had this move I could do X or X and play better. But that's just my opinion.
Yeah I've mentioned it but people act like they're allergic to change.
...And are you one of them?The amount of people who said they never attend tournaments...
Suddenly I care less about these results.
The transformations are brief, and only two of them are legitimately bad (Electric & Ice). The stage isn't ideal, but it's acceptable as a counter-pick; ultimately, you just have to momentarily adapt.The people saying Stadium 2 should be legal
Most of the sections make this stage unplayable in tournaments. Ice physics, treadmills, wind, etc.
Likely the people who are against customs (which I find rather pathetic, to be perfectly honest).
I don't get this argument. "Breaks the pace of the game too much"? Two minutes of what basically everyone agrees is neutral, followed by 30 seconds which might break up the neutral somewhat. Compare that to PS1 in Melee and Brawl, or Wuhu Island, and it's really quite tame, plus the electric segment allows for thoroughly interesting counterplay. There's nothing banworthy about gimmicks that aren't degenerate. There's nothing broken about breaking up the fight temporarily. Lots of stages do that. So it's different. So is every stage in the game. That doesn't make it banworthy.
