The Ultimate Smash 4 Ruleset Poll RESULTS!

[ZeoLightning]

Pilot wings is really sitting on the fence, mii fighters not having customs gimps them pretty hard, and who would replace FD with an omega stage?

 

[Splash Damage]

Capps, do you think you could by chance release a version of this that filters out all of the people who voted who also said they either have never attended a tournament or who haven't attended one in 2 months? Be nice to see what the more competitive side thinks, especially considering the amount of people who asked for items on and said they've never attended.

 

[Murlough]

Likely the people who are against customs (which I find rather pathetic, to be perfectly honest).

Pathetic? Come on now. I understand people thinking thier opinions are right and anyone who disagrees needs to be struck by lightning but this is getting silly. Pathetic is such a childish word to use regarding another person's opinion.

Anyway I voted for 1-1-1-1, 2-2-2-2, and 3-3-3-3 for Miis. That just seemed fair to me so that each mii is its own character but doesn't get so many options against the non-custom roster characters. But hey feel free to call me "pathetic" for voicing MY opinion.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

"Oh ****, we're not getting enough data as quickly as we thought! Lets release this even though we don't have as much data as we had originally hoped!"

Quality

Also smh at all the people saying Mansion should be legal. Lets unban Temple and Tomodachi Life while we're at it, yeah? I love me a good set of circle camping and early KOs off the top.

"B-but Smashville and T&C allow early KOs too!"

Right, their plats are ALWAYS at their closest points to the blastlines as possible. It's not like a player has to strategise and prepare to set up plat-assisted KOs, since they can just wait at that spot indefinitely.

Oh wait

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

Why? Why should Skyloft replace Delfino? Evidence or it's just words. I for one want both to be legal along with Wuhu.

It's just a personal preference that I'd like. Plus, the blast zones transition much better than Delfino or Halberd, so less janky kills happen. Either way, I'm fine with both being legal for now, but I still prefer Skyloft and Wuhu over Delfino and Halberd.

 

[ShuckleBoard]

It's just a personal preference that I'd like. Plus, the blast zones transition much better than Delfino or Halberd, so less janky kills happen. Either way, I'm fine with both being legal for now, but I still prefer Skyloft and Wuhu over Delfino and Halberd.

Low blast zones aren't 'jank' they are part of the stage and good counter picking. If you didn't ban Delfino and Halberd against a character with strong upwards KO power then you didn't ban correctly. But yeah if that's your preference then good for you I to enjoy Skyloft it's my favorite traveling stage

 

[Tino]

Since when did everyone here have taken this poll so damn seriously? What is this, House of Representatives?

 

[FirewaterDM]

Not sure how I feel about these results, though I really hope that if nothing else, we get more stages to pick from. Even if we don't get PS2 (seriously, it's not as dumb as it was in Brawl), Skyloft, Wuhu, Kongo and Pilotwings should be legal.

Also Mario Circuit Wii-U is also a stage I think people overlook, and should be tested

As for the big thing in the room (Customs, 3 v 2 stock), still undecided, though tbh, after being the benficiary of a set win because of the dumbness of Heavy Skull Bash, not sure, can say that banning single customs is a terrible idea, it should be either all customs or none- you don't have random Custom DK's, Villagers winning tournaments over highly ranked players right? It's called being good at the game.

As for 2/3 stock, could honestly care less, just whatever options make tournaments more humane.

Also to prevent the dumb decisions that hurt previous games in the past, we should not do anything to stages other than increasing the number that are used/viable. Haliberd and Delfino aren't that bad at all, and honestly, Castle Siege is worse than either.

 

[Blazin']

I'm okay with the legal stage choices here. I welcome Skyloft and Wuhu Island with open arms. I'm kinda iffy on Pokemon Stadium 2, but even if it does become legal it won't be that much of an issue. 3 stocks 8 minutes seems to be a bit too much, though. It'd be an entirely different story if custom moves weren't in the picture, but with them there, sets would go on forever due to defensive play being rewarded so much in this game.

 

[Metallinatus]

This strategy has been completely figured out in this thread http://smashboards.com/threads/comm...under-wave-followups-sonics-hammer-sd.396222/ made by @Jaxas

We are talking about the same thing a EBT and TS Villager. You are also defeating your own point by saying that is broken and then pointing out that there is a viable strategy in Pikachu. If you are talking about Jtails then I know for a fact that was the first time he used Pikachu in tourney so he got a free win for adapting. Also in that same tournement @Jigglymaster or Dapuffster beat Villager with Mii Brawler.There are many ways to defeat this strategy I have a game plan as Ness to beat it so I will never lose to it. Here is @NinjaLink 's twitch http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink/profile where he has in his past broadcasts show how this strategy can be beaten with every character. Also you didn't answer my question what have YOU done to adapt and come up with a counter play.
TL&DR: If easy to beat then don't ban it

Edit: 'd by based TNT

Perhaps this camping is not as apocalyptic as I thought then, though if you don't pick one of the recommended characters or stages, it is a lot easier said than done....
I did think of a way to beat the strategy with my main, which was, surprisingly or not, using the Burst Grenade, from all her moves....
But unless I see that strategy working on a real player, I won't know if it works.... and all I was left still was a Villager with a strategy seemingly almost infallible unless you pick a very specific character or stage just to counter the camping alone.
And the way I see it, it still is this way, except more characters can counter it than I thought....
That Mii Brawler only won because he was able to get a stock lead by hitting one very powerful move and killing super early at just 64% btw.... because he was getting destroyed in the percentages battle.
Oh, and that is one reason why walk off stages should be valid counter picks.

 

[Metallinatus]

Btw, I think that the standard for the meta should be that customs are banned, but with the players being able to gentleman on using them on every set....
That is the fairest option in my opinion.

 

[Camalange]

...And are you one of them?

lol, I attend at least two tournaments a month. I was also a highly active Brawl player back in the day.

I've only been on a hiatus this past month because I just finished up college, which also lined up with the NY scene getting kicked out of it's biggest local venue.

So now that I have time again, I can try to help them find a new venue as well as support other venues that I'd have to travel out a little more to.

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

Low blast zones aren't 'jank' they are part of the stage and good counter picking. If you didn't ban Delfino and Halberd against a character with strong upwards KO power then you didn't ban correctly. But yeah if that's your preference then good for you I to enjoy Skyloft it's my favorite traveling stage

I don't have a problem with low blast zones (I never stated this). The problem I have is that the blast zone (mainly in Delfino) always shifts and fluctuates so drastically, while compared to Halberd, Skyloft, and Wuhu, they all have blast zones that are steady and don't change in size so much.

Also, I like Halberd's low ceiling, but I'm against the stage hazards. It's kinda annoying (which most would agree) and may ruin people's games. Otherwise, it would be fine in every other regard.

 

[ICXCM]

Can someone please explain or link the reasons against Miis with custom movesets?

 

[SilentDeadbolt]

Idk why people this MORE STAGES=BETTER GAME lol. Even if you hate melee, the game has the largest competitive scene and its been out for 15 years with only 6 legal stages. It's not like having more stages legal is going to make Sm4sh suddenly be a better game. Project M is actually having trouble in this regard with having so many stages. As dumb as it sounds you can have too many options for stages. For example lets say that there are 4 stages that have low ceilings and your opponent plays fox and its their counter pick but you only get 3 bans. That means that no matter what, they get to pick a stage with a low ceiling essentially making your bans close to pointless. Now this is all hypothetical and I understand that sm4sh is a different game than melee/pm but the same problems will exist in sm4sh if you just continue to add stages to the list. Losing the first game in a set and getting a counter pick shouldn't mean 'hey i lost the first game but ill pick this bs stage that's going to give me and absurd advantage against the other player.' In my opinion counterpicks should try to give a slight advantage. In any event I'm sure about half the people who read this thing that circle camping/walk off camping is nothing to worry about so for the other half this is my humble opinion why the current list used in tournament is fine. I personally play melee and pm the most though so you guys do what you want. If you want a meta based around walkoffs and circle camping be my guest.

 

[Aygent]

The way final rulesets should be in my honest opinion:

The top 10 competitive players , the top 10 most viewed/ streamed non competitive players, and a handful of good figures in the smash community throw some ideas around. Sure, it's good to get feedback. But strong leadership and desire for one common goal is a must. Too many people bickering between variations doesn't help the growth of this game's meta. It's already a chore for sm4sh players to climb the hurdle of being viewed as "filthy casuals" or anything toxic of the sort. The smash powers that be need to take a few notes from other gaming scenes in esports and see how they all agree on it's games rulesets. But seeing an open poll in a very new game is a good thing to see.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

The way final rulesets should be in my honest opinion:

The top 10 competitive players , the top 10 most viewed/ streamed non competitive players, and a handful of good figures in the smash community throw some ideas around.

Have you seen Zer0's video on stages? Just curious. It's a gigantic pile of crap.

 

[Deleted member]

>Ban Customs
>Play the game the way it is
wut

 

[J-Flair]

can i still vote because there need to be more stages legal so it would be more intresting to watch

 

[Aygent]

Have you seen Zer0's video on stages? Just curious. It's a gigantic pile of crap.

that's why I said multiple folks. People who wouldnt be afraid to fire shots when needed.

 

[Dirty Duck]

I'm a bit confused about Pilot Wings being banned and Wuhu being legal, but eh, the people have spoken

 

[sGale]

Anyone technical that gets this spreadsheet, is it possible to check how many that wants customs actually attend tournaments?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm a bit confused about Pilot Wings being banned and Wuhu being legal, but eh, the people have spoken

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD9m_zYPexM

Pilotwings is legitimately broken; Wuhu does not have such issues.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Anyone technical that gets this spreadsheet, is it possible to check how many that wants customs actually attend tournaments?

Someone checked this last night and if you exclude those who don't go to tournaments, more people want customs legal.

 

[The 0ne]

Woah man don't make generalizations like that I wholeheartedly think that Mewtwo not having customs is stupid and that it's unfair to him. But it's also equally unfair to all the other characters with customs to be unable to use theirs. The way you worded your post made it sound like all characters should be brought down to Mewtwos level. I agree with your other points though.

Ok, cool. I just wanted to bring to light the fact that DLC characters won't have customs because honestly I'll play with or without them, depending on my opponent. And also because I'll likely main Lucas.

Against a given opponent, I wouldn't care if Lucas was just default, because I'm sure he'll be fine. But if I were forced to play Tripping Villager or Airbender Kong and not even have the option, I'd be annoyed.

But since that's still only like two or perhaps three matchups, overall I'm still in favor of customs. Other Mewtwos or Lucai might be annoyed overall though, so that's why I brought it up.

 

[The 0ne]

As

While it may have you need to know more about your character, the point that the stage simply makes gameplay completely different on the stage than any other stage in the game makes it ban worthy. Why is this the case?
Well: The stage breaks the pace of the game too much. The conveyor belts go towards the outside of the stage. Less traction makes it hard to both approach and punish your opponent. Low gravity keeps players from landing and can give players recoveries when they should have died.
I would be fine with playing ON this stage if gimmicks were not taking it over on 3/4ths of its transformations.

Though a tournament with only PS2 I wouldn't mind that much. It allows for a completely different meta.

As I'll say to defend any could-be legal stage, which in this case includes PS2 and Wuhu Island, both of which I'm in favor of,

If Halberd can be legal, PS2 can be legal.

 

[PK_Knee]

Due to the number of votes coming in slowing significantly faster than expected, the results of The Ultimate Smash 4 Ruleset Poll will be released to the public early! After several similar previous polls this most recent poll has collect tons of data with over 3700 responses at the time of writing.

Here Are The Results!​

A full spreadsheet with all results can be found here. Many discussions based on tidbits of the poll have already started, hopefully the results within can be mined for the most interesting data and the dialog between players and tournament organizers can continue.

SmashCapps is incredibly excited for people to get digging into the data and for discussions to begin. To discuss the results with him personally or anything else Smash follow him on Twitter.

I agree with lots with the majority here, I play with Falcon in tournaments, I think Kongo Jungle should be a counter-pick, and I think some customs should be banned *Cough* DK WIND PUCH *cough*

 

[Metallinatus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD9m_zYPexM

Pilotwings is legitimately broken; Wuhu does not have such issues.

Honestly, the first plane is just a complete noob getting smash moves that could have been totally avoided while making a successful approach....
Seriously, it was a pile of noobness that never played Smash Bros. before.... seriously....
Now the second plane.... those bottom platforms are definitely something, I will give you that.
But it was painful to watch the Rob guy running into smashes without doing anything because "why not?" on the red plane....

 

[Omegascizor456]

It was cool that there was at least a Poll for this type of thing, and overall some of these things make sense... SOME

 

[90007000]

It was cool that there was at least a Poll for this type of thing, and overall some of these things make sense... SOME

Like nothing?

 

[dahuterschuter]

It's too bad there's so few 64 players represented on the poll.

I think people overlook it because it's so old, yet it's easily the hypest Smash after Melee because while it doesn't have Melee's community of Smash celebs and giant tourneys it's basically the most combo-centric Smash and in a lot of ways the most like a traditional fighter. Newer Smash generations should give Combo Dome 64 a chance.

 

[Nights Owl]

Regarding stages... I really wish that Nintendo (in addition to Omega stages) Did some other kind of possible alteration. Zeta stages or something similar. You've got the whole Greek alphabet to pick one.

Either way, same thing as Omega stages, but add platforms that make the stage neutral. Not only like Battlefield. But some like Halberd, Wario Ware, Smash Ville, Etc. Pretty much take the Omega versions and add tourney legal platforms.

It's not gonna happen 'cuz Nintendo. But it's something I'd love to see. Even as someone who doesn't go to tourneys, but enjoys competitive play.

 

[Trigspro789]

I would've said to have customs, but ban the problematic ones like DK's 3rd up-b

 

[LiteralGrill]

Anyone technical that gets this spreadsheet, is it possible to check how many that wants customs actually attend tournaments?

Someone did this for the data on reddit, the percents for everything BARELY change. The only notable one was customs, where the number of people who wanted customs off went up by 4%. So you can look at these poll results and generally assume this is what everyone is thinking even without non tournament goers.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I agree with lots with the majority here, I play with Falcon in tournaments, I think Kongo Jungle should be a counter-pick, and I think some customs should be banned *Cough* DK WIND PUCH *cough*

That's an odd one to complain about... Because it's not even remotely overpowered.

Honestly, the first plane is just a complete noob getting smash moves that could have been totally avoided while making a successful approach....
Seriously, it was a pile of noobness that never played Smash Bros. before.... seriously....
Now the second plane.... those bottom platforms are definitely something, I will give you that.
But it was painful to watch the Rob guy running into smashes without doing anything because "why not?" on the red plane....

The issue with the red plane is a recurring one in Smash - being able to situate yourself with a wall to your back is an incredibly strong advantageous position. This is why Peach's Castle and Venom were banned in Melee. It's an incredibly difficult position to approach - approaching from above virtually any character is incredibly difficult in any situation; with a platform directly above you, it's really damn near impossible. Attempting to approach from the side allows the opponent to jump over the plane and go to the other side, resetting the situation. If it weren't for the engines on the yellow plane, it might be bearable, but the engines make it even worse. It becomes a hard circle, allowing for basically unbeatable camping on both halves of the stage.

 

[Fancy]

The best part about this is looking at people's ridiculous smash tags.

 

[TheWozny]

I support 3 stocks, 8 minutes

 

[Leland527]

I kind of want to take this survey with a grain of salt as the majority of the players never, or rarely attend tournaments and thus have no experience with the scene, it was for this reason I personally did not fill out the survey as my opinion as someone who has never entered Sm4sh at any event I go to didn't seem to valuable.

 

[MonkeyArms]

How is different gameplay banworthy? It's GAMEPLAY. Adapting to different situations and knowledge of stages, characters, and strategys are staples of Smash. On PS2 the better player will always win the stage does not change the outcome itself the player's knowledge of the stage and their skill. Transformations only last for 30 seconds and most of the match is played on the glorious neutral stage. Also Ice and Wind promote air play and require a different mental approach whenever I gentleman people to this stage and Ice comes up I destroy them because I know how to move. PS2 to me is the greatest stage for testing a players ability to adapt and use the stage to their advantage one of the greatest things a Smasher can do.

Well, one thing you forget to consider is I play luigi, I put up with everything that goes on in the stage in EVERY other stage. and this stage just makes it WORSE. I have one of the worst air speeds in the game and my traction sucks, in the air portion of the stage, their IS no WAY for me to adapt because I simply can't play Luigi the way he is meant to be played. When I jump, I won't be coming down for another ten seconds. And on the Ice portion of the stage, I have basically no punish on people that hit my sheild, so OF COURSE I'm NOT going to allow this stage to be played against me in tournament. So I'd just rather have it banned in the first place

 

[Zzuxon]

Capps, do you think you could by chance release a version of this that filters out all of the people who voted who also said they either have never attended a tournament or who haven't attended one in 2 months? Be nice to see what the more competitive side thinks, especially considering the amount of people who asked for items on and said they've never attended.

Someone on reddit figured it out. There was basically no change. The most significant one was the number of people who wanted customs off went up by like 4%.